Government loses first vote in Dáil

Scofflaw

The matter voted on is not perhaps such a big deal in itself, but an Irish government losing a Dáil vote (without collpasing the government) hasn't been a feature of the Dáil for decades:

THE GOVERNMENT HAS suffered its first defeat in the Dáil this evening.

The Fine Gael/independents minority government lost its first vote in Dáil after it put forward a counter-motion to a Labour Party motion on workers’ rights.

The government’s counter-motion was defeated by 58 votes in favour to 78 against – signalling its first defeat in the Dáil.

The Labour motion is calling for increased worker’s rights – including a significant increase in the minimum wage, a Living Wage of €11.50 to be adopted in the public sector and for increased worker protections, among other measures.

It was carried after the government did not challenge it when its own counter-motion was defeated.

http://www.thejournal.ie/defeat-government-2800758-Jun2016/

So this is actually quite a new thing for Irish politics, and in my opinion, a good thing. It may not last past this Dáil term, though.

cordially,
Scofflaw

seamus

Seems a bit sillty to try counter a populist motion like that - pick your battles for god's sake. What was the counter-motion, nobody seems to be reporting that?

BoJack Horseman

A government amounting to 37% of the parliament is doomed.

Roll on another election.

K-9

The FF mortgage bill was a climbdown as well.

I think people assuming this Government won't last long are just used to that being the narrative for so long. The FF minority Government in 87 lost a good few votes and battered on and it was Haughey that pulled the plug on it for vindictive reasons. It could have went on for another couple of years no problem.

hatrickpatrick

Beautiful.

Tomorrow, when we do't have a general election and the government moves on to its next item of business, the media and skeptics will start to realise that a functioning parliament is not, in fact, actually an apocalyptic calamity.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

Seems a bit sillty to try counter a populist motion like that - pick your battles for god's sake.?

It does not one jot of harm. It isn't silly.

First time some populist vote goes tits-up, causing some national calamity or running foul of the Constitution, Enda Kenny or Leo Varadkar, flush with triumph, can stand before Miriam and spell-out what a clever & considered alternative they had tried to enact.

It will all be there in black & white.

Nothing wrong with countering populist motions.

This is how we make & learn. Watch us grow.

Scofflaw

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Beautiful.

Tomorrow, when we do't have a general election and the government moves on to its next item of business, the media and skeptics will start to realise that a functioning parliament is not, in fact, actually an apocalyptic calamity.

That's what I'm hoping for. The Dáil has, I think, adapted rather quicker than much of the media - for example:

The prospects of a student loan scheme for third-level education have sharply receded after Minister for Education Richard Bruton said any changes must be based on a political consensus.

A major report to be published soon on the future of third-level funding will lean heavily on an income-contingent loan scheme as the only realistic option of funding the system.

However, Mr Bruton said while Fine Gael has supported such a move in the past, the minority Government will require the support of major parties in any decision it makes.

Fianna Fáil has reservations over such a model, while Sinn Féin is strongly opposed to it.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/student-loan-scheme-unlikely-as-all-party-support-seen-as-key-1.2670798

Again, not the details of the issue that are interesting, but the way it could come to pass - and the way the IT reports it, which appears to be on the road to accepting the new normal. No hint, really, of "ZOMG the government will collapse!!".

cordially,
Scofflaw

jimmycrackcorm

hatrickpatrick wrote:

Beautiful.

Tomorrow, when we do't have a general election and the government moves on to its next item of business, the media and skeptics will start to realise that a functioning parliament is not, in fact, actually an apocalyptic calamity.

What we will see over the course of the lifetime of this government is that any bill or issue that requires a difficult or unpopular decision will not be passed.

Just as well the economy is doing well because you can imagine what would happen were the government in a position to have to make budget cuts.

Scofflaw

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

What we will see over the course of the lifetime of this government is that any bill or issue that requires a difficult or unpopular decision will not be passed.

So...much like an FF government, then?

cordially,
Scofflaw

jimmycrackcorm

Scofflaw wrote:

So...much like an FF government, then?

Ironically from today's independent about giving the central bank powers to cap variable mortgage rates; powers that they don't want:


"The Fianna Fáil legislation - now at committee stage - hinders plans to unlock almost €21bn invested in AIB by taxpayers. The Government is intending to float AIB, probably beginning with 25pc next year, but no flotation could be an unqualified success if politicians dabble with the regulatory regime. Investors would be deterred from buying in. Incidentally, people criticising Michael Noonan for prioritising bank shareholders above homeowners should remember the biggest bank shareholders of all are Irish citizens: we own virtually all of AIB, 75pc of Permanent TSB and 14pc of Bank of Ireland."

Godge

Scofflaw wrote: »

That's what I'm hoping for. The Dáil has, I think, adapted rather quicker than much of the media - for example:



http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/student-loan-scheme-unlikely-as-all-party-support-seen-as-key-1.2670798

Again, not the details of the issue that are interesting, but the way it could come to pass - and the way the IT reports it, which appears to be on the road to accepting the new normal. No hint, really, of "ZOMG the government will collapse!!".

cordially,
Scofflaw

Just another example of how controversial and difficult decisions will be avoided in the "new politics".

Third-level education is massively underfunded, the State can't make up the difference, so instead of putting a sensible solution in place, the populist parties will pretend that everything is fine.

Scofflaw

Godge wrote: »

Just another example of how controversial and difficult decisions will be avoided in the "new politics".

Third-level education is massively underfunded, the State can't make up the difference, so instead of putting a sensible solution in place, the populist parties will pretend that everything is fine.

Possibly so, but I'm not sure what's new about that. Third-level education has been massively underfunded since at least 2004, if not earlier. Through the Celtic Tiger, there was money for benchmarking, money for top grade roads to rural towns, money for huge vanity projects - but none for water infrastructure, third level education, or any of that.

So I do find it hard to see what changes to those issues will actually be brought about by a minority government, as opposed to being blamed on it.

cordially,
Scofflaw

K-9

Kenny's nomination for the European Investment Bank the first casualty of the new Government so far. Ross had the temerity to tell him to abide by procedure for this type of thing!

That's another change from the last Government as I suspect Bruton would have got the nod from Labour.

Godge

K-9 wrote: »

Kenny's nomination for the European Investment Bank the first casualty of the new Government so far. Ross had the temerity to tell him to abide by procedure for this type of thing!

That's another change from the last Government as I suspect Bruton would have got the nod from Labour.

Will be very interested in how this works out.

While an application process for paid posts is fine in theory, it doesn't always mean we get the best candidate as people self-select themselves out of a competition.

It will be especially interesting if the same process is applied to voluntary unpaid posts.

Sand

K-9 wrote: »

Kenny's nomination for the European Investment Bank the first casualty of the new Government so far. Ross had the temerity to tell him to abide by procedure for this type of thing!

That's another change from the last Government as I suspect Bruton would have got the nod from Labour.

Very good to see that the influence of Independents and an empowered Dail are already combating the incompetent crony politics of the whipped parties. I think the people most likely to bring the government down are not the independents, but the parties who will want to wind the clock back to the 'good old days' when they could run the country into the ground completely unchecked.

Jack Killian

Sand wrote: »

Very good to see that the influence of Independents and an empowered Dail are already combating the incompetent crony politics of the whipped parties. I think the people most likely to bring the government down are not the independents, but the parties who will want to wind the clock back to the 'good old days' when they could run the country into the ground completely unchecked.

Absolutely. But those who want to keep the status quo will still blame the independents for showboating (which to the rest of us is "doing their feckin' job).

Remember when the Greens backed Bertie and implicitly overlooked his corruption because of the "bigger picture" ?

Where did that phrase of "don't break up the party old sport" come from anyway ? Was it Haughey or Lenihan ?

Bass Reeves

K-9 wrote: »

The FF mortgage bill was a climbdown as well.

I think people assuming this Government won't last long are just used to that being the narrative for so long. The FF minority Government in 87 lost a good few votes and battered on and it was Haughey that pulled the plug on it for vindictive reasons. It could have went on for another couple of years no problem.

It was Albert that pulled the plug after he replaced Haughey. He was unhappy with the ''tempory little arrangement''. We get what we vote for popular politics is in thing now. To be seen to indulge any small section of the population and not to be unpopular in case there is an election.