Pegida Demonstration in Limerick

jonski

stefanovich wrote: »

Modify our laws to do what exactly? Enforce our borders? Not possible if we are part of the EU with that madwoman Merkel inviting hostile people into Europe.

You are still arguing a different, although no less valid, point .

He said that the problem lies with the laws of the land and you responded with

Sharia will be much better.

Now, to me, thats just fearmongering . He didn't mention that but you saw fit to just throw it in there . Kinda the same way you threw in Jihadis .

Severard

Well hopefully it goes ahead. Even if I disagree with what is being said, they have a right to protest and have their voices heard.

The core of the issue is what governments in Europe and especially major European leaders are doing with regards to this issue that should be talked about the most - their failure to manage this correctly as well as their condescending attitude towards people who have concerns about the level of immigrants and the fact that they are not being processed is also something that has allowed for Pegida to grow. By 2017 Germans could end up having to pay €50 billion for this [1].

Are people on the right manipulating this for their own gains? Of course they are, yet if European leaders don't face up to this and those on the left that bury their heads in the sand rather than face the uncomfortable truths surrounding the immigrants who come to Europe, then ordinary people will be left with little choice but to turn to the right and hope for the best.

However when people who attend these protests are being labeled Nazis then it only further fans the flames already, yet ironically there have been several Pegida marches where people have waved the Israeli flag [2]. This doesn't bode well for the claim that the group is facist does it? Plus Muslims in Germany have been less than subtle about how they view Jews, the Nazis and Adolf Hitler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isRnEx4HIzQ

As for being labelled racist, it is important to recognise that those who are doing the labelling would be the far left and the "unite against facism" crowd. A group which calls people facist for raising awareness of actual facism in the form of radical Islam. So no, there should be no one that should be worried about being labelled racist/facist etc...

Hopefully we won't see a repeat of the scenes in Dublin where "anti-racist" groups were protesting against those from Pegida.

After reading what Niall Collins had to say on Pegida coming to Limerick, it is even more important that they do come and have their voices heard. Collins stating that "Indeed many Irish people who have emigrated down though the years would fall foul of the anti-immigration policies that Pegida espouse,” What the group "espouse" is for

1. "The acceptance of asylum seekers from war zones" they see it as a "human duty".
   
2. Oppose hate preachers no matter the religion that they belong to.
   
3. Wants an increase in the amount of social workers that are assigned to asylum seekers.
   
4. Advocates for torture victims to taken out of refugee centres that are of poor quality and housed appropriately.

It's hard to believe how Irish people would "fall foul" of such policy positions. What Collins (and Willie O'Dea who also had something to say on it) are doing here is nothing more than virtue signalling.

Is Pegida perfect? Nope, they attract elements of society that no decent person would want to be associated with, yet they are a start to trying to resolve the immigration crisis of which is something that everyone can agree needs to be resolved. Pegida's positions are not radical. Acknowledging these issues and solving the problems that arise from them will work towards diminishing the influence of the far-right in Europe. For as it stands they are the only ones who appear to be addressing this and that is a depressing thought.

[1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12135244/Migrant-crisis-to-cost-Germany-50-billion-by-2017.html

[2] http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/member-carrying-israeli-flag-pegida-munich-blocked-for-the-news-photo/497843276

osarusan

stefanovich wrote: »

Sharia will be much better.

For somebody who was apparently looking for a proper, civil discussion in your OP, this is just ridiculous.

johnnyryan89

Shock, horror!! Another thread strays off into anti Muslim remarks. Funnily enough the same poster started the last thread about the immigrants being housed here.

stefanovich

johnnyryan89 wrote:

Shock, horror!! Another thread strays off into anti Muslim remarks. Funnily enough the same poster started the last thread about the immigrants being housed here.

osarusan wrote:

For somebody who was apparently looking for a proper, civil discussion in your OP, this is just ridiculous.

Are you not against sharia law?

TonyCliftonEsq

stefanovich wrote: »

He is saying that the problem is with our government. Yes they are incompetent but I would argue that the problem is the jihadis we are inviting into our country.

I am actually embarrassed for you after this thread and your previous one because you've shown your true colours and it doesn't look good, not one bit.

stefanovich

TonyCliftonEsq wrote:

I am actually embarrassed for you after this thread and your previous one because you've shown your true colours and it doesn't look good, not one bit.

Feel free to feel as embarrassed as you want. Your comment is obviously designed to illicit some sort of emotional response. Perhaps now I will feel guilty and change my mind. or perhaps I choose to use my head.

Thing is, however good it might make one feel to feel empathy and want to help these poor people you do so at a cost. Logic needs to be employed also.

I am certainly not saying all Muslims are jihadists. Of course not. What I am saying is that without proper screening of the immigrants they have and will continue to slip through the cracks.

I also think (lots of evidence on that ummah website) that there is a large percentage of practising Muslims whose beliefs are completely incompatible with European culture and way of life. Sharia law is one example. If you are going to take the Koran literally then there is a lot of bad stuff in there. We need a moderate Islam which doesn't infringe on other people's rights.

Now another issue is merely numbers. Too many in Europe now, it's unsustainable. Plus you are encouraging more to make a dangerous crossing. Now they are going from France to the UK by dinghy. Are they insane? Do they think the streets are paved with gold?

stefanovich

TonyCliftonEsq wrote: »

So yet again, as you have illustrated, the problem lies with the government and the laws of the land.

stefanovich wrote:

Sharia will be much better.

I was merely highlighting the absurdity of his argument.

Mark Tapley

stefanovich wrote: »

Are you not against sharia law?

If you can't make your point without this disingenuous shìte you should give up.

stefanovich

Mark Tapley wrote: »

If you can't make your point without this disingenuous shìte you should give up.

You think I am being disingenuous. No, I was using absurdity to make a point. Didn't work so well as you all seem to take things so, so literally. Easier to be offended if you ignore the subtleties of our language.

Anyway, if you read some of my larger posts you might understand my points but seems people like to skim over anything reasonable I say and instead focus on either trying to make me feel guilty, misrepresent me, deny reality etc etc without ever facing the issues I bring up.

Those who do address the issues are basically agreeing with me.

Mark Tapley

stefanovich wrote: »

You think I am being disingenuous. No, I was using absurdity to make a point. Didn't work so well as you all seem to take things so, so literally. Easier to be offended if you ignore the subtleties of our language.

Anyway, if you read some of my larger posts you might understand my points but seems people like to skim over anything reasonable I say and instead focus on either trying to make me feel guilty, misrepresent me, deny reality etc etc without ever facing the issues I bring up.

Those who do address the issues are basically agreeing with me.

Not offended , bored of seeing same incessant one trick ponies banging their drums. Ignoring subtleties, you are about as subtle as a brick.

stefanovich

Mark Tapley wrote: »

Not offended , bored of seeing same incessant one trick ponies banging their drums. Ignoring subtleties, you are about as subtle as a brick.

So okay do you have a better solution to the issue than enforcing European borders? I'd love to be educated.

Mark Tapley

stefanovich wrote: »

So okay do you have a better solution to the issue than enforcing European borders? I'd love to be educated.

Debating with you is pointless you are as deeply entrenched as your counterparts in the far left. Extremists of all hues are a pain in the arsė and counterproductive to finding a viable solution.

stefanovich

Mark Tapley wrote: »

Debating with you is pointless you are as deeply entrenched as your counterparts in the far left. Extremists of all hues are a pain in the arsė and counterproductive to finding a viable solution.

You consider me an extremist? Really? I just consider myself a realist. I have legitimate concerns about actual extremists within the Muslim community. They make up a worrying large percentage. You know, people who advocate child marriage, stoning people to death etc etc. And they will openly say this stuff to your face. Have a look at some of the posts on ummah.com and you will get some insight into how some of their community behave.

I am all for helping people but I don't think open borders is a solution.

Mark Tapley

stefanovich wrote: »

You consider me an extremist? Really? I just consider myself a realist. I have legitimate concerns about actual extremists within the Muslim community. They make up a worrying large percentage. You know, people who advocate child marriage, stoning people to death etc etc. And they will openly say this stuff to your face. Have a look at some of the posts on ummah.com and you will get some insight into how some of their community behave.

I am all for helping people but I don't think open borders is a solution.

Yes you have legitimate concerns. Have you actually met anyone who wants open immigration in Ireland? Anyone that thinks there shouldn't be stringent checks to avoid extremists of the Muslim variety entering the country.
Muslims will enter the country or do you plan on banning them a lá Trump. You inciting hatred makes you part of the problem, not the solution. Have your concerns, voice your concerns but go easy with the tar.

What's the wider immigration debate doing in a regional forum? What has that got to do with Limerick itself? Or is it a hiding place for pegida types to spout without counter-spout from the antis?

stefanovich

Mark Tapley wrote: »

Yes you have legitimate concerns. Have you actually met anyone who wants open immigration in Ireland? Anyone that thinks there shouldn't be stringent checks to avoid extremists of the Muslim variety entering the country.
Muslims will enter the country or do you plan on banning them a lá Trump. You inciting hatred makes you part of the problem, not the solution. Have your concerns, voice your concerns but go easy with the tar.

I suppose firstly what do we define as extreme? Definitely those who are planning violent attacks. Also I would argue those who take the Koran literally and hope to live by it word for word. That site I linked is full of the second type who I reckon are incompatible with the west. How do we filter them out? It's next to impossible. You can be pretty sure the family with the woman wearing a niqab are more likely to be the second type.

You say you want stringent checks but basically all and sundry are being permitted leave to remain in Europe. Not just Syrians but from all over the Arab world.

I would say that the only solution now is to send the refugees back. Have the UN set up a safe zone like we did in Bosnia. Ban the veil in public so we can see people's faces.

stefanovich

stefanovich wrote: »

I suppose firstly what do we define as extreme? Definitely those who are planning violent attacks. Also I would argue those who take the Koran literally and hope to live by it word for word. That site I linked is full of the second type who I reckon are incompatible with the west. How do we filter them out? It's next to impossible. You can be pretty sure the family with the woman wearing a niqab are more likely to be the second type.

You say you want stringent checks but basically all and sundry are being permitted leave to remain in Europe. Not just Syrians but from all over the Arab world.

I would say that the only solution now is to send the refugees back. Have the UN set up a safe zone like we did in Bosnia. Ban the veil in public so we can see people's faces.

Man you white power boys work fast.

stefanovich

Deleted User wrote: »

What's the wider immigration debate doing in a regional forum? What has that got to do with Limerick itself? Or is it a hiding place for pegida types to spout without counter-spout from the antis?

Good point. I suppose we have diverged from the topic, it was pretty much guaranteed to happen. I'm no member of Pegida by the way.

I do think they have a right to a demonstration in this city. I think the politicians here are weak and do not have our best interests at heart. They are against it because they think it makes them look good.

If you look at conservative party members in the UK they are able to have open and logical discussions on immigration.

Anyway, you can be sure the far-left will mobilise and are already planning violence. That's nearly guaranteed.

stefanovich

Deleted User wrote: »

Man you white power boys work fast.

I've got fairly thick skin so I'll let that insult go. You were worried about things going off topic in your first post and now a personal attack and misrepresentation.

Are you planning to attend the demonstration or counter demonstration?

stefanovich

stefanovich wrote: »

I've got fairly thick skin so I'll let that insult go. You were worried about things going off topic in your first post and now a personal attack and misrepresentation.

Are you planning to attend the demonstration or counter demonstration?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flBqojLpAnI

JupiterKid

I want to add my two cents to the thread. Europe is facing an immigration crisis and the rise of radical Islam is a very real concern.

I am far from a racist. As a gay professional man, I see Islam and what it stands for as completely incompatible with tolerant, progressive, liberal values. Radical Islamists would rather see me executed brutally. I will not tolerate intolerance.

Pegida are raising some very real concerns. Sadly their association in the UK with racist thugs is unfortunate but where are the moderate voices in the body politic calling out for a real debate on this very real threat facing the west?

johnnyryan89

stefanovich wrote: »

Are you not against sharia law?

What about sharia law, thought you started this thread about the demonstration which is taken place in Limerick and specifically asked in your op to stick to the topic so why you banging on about sharia law.

JupiterKid

JupiterKid wrote: »

I want to add my two cents to the thread. Europe is facing an immigration crisis and the rise of radical Islam is a very real concern.

I am far from a racist. As a gay professional man, I see Islam and what it stands for as completely incompatible with tolerant, progressive, liberal values. Radical Islamists would rather see me executed brutally. I will not tolerate intolerance.

Pegida are raising some very real concerns. Sadly their association in the UK with racist thugs is unfortunate but where are the moderate voices in the body politic calling out for a real debate on this very real threat facing the west?

Who are the voices telling us that the Limerick forum is the right place to spout gabber about the muzzlemans invading or the muzzlemans needing protection or yada yada yada?

Mark Tapley

stefanovich wrote: »

I suppose firstly what do we define as extreme? Definitely those who are planning violent attacks. Also I would argue those who take the Koran literally and hope to live by it word for word. That site I linked is full of the second type who I reckon are incompatible with the west. How do we filter them out? It's next to impossible. You can be pretty sure the family with the woman wearing a niqab are more likely to be the second type.

You say you want stringent checks but basically all and sundry are being permitted leave to remain in Europe. Not just Syrians but from all over the Arab world.

I would say that the only solution now is to send the refugees back. Have the UN set up a safe zone like we did in Bosnia. Ban the veil in public so we can see people's faces.

So the culture you want to preserve has a sign out saying " Fúck off refugees ".

The_Kew_Tour

Plenty of Muslims in Cork, but very rare I see a Woman wear Veil, is it actually that common in Limerick?

stefanovich

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

What about sharia law, thought you started this thread about the demonstration which is taken place in Limerick and specifically asked in your op to stick to the topic so why you banging on about sharia law.

The demonstration is against the Islamification of the west so Sharia law would be part of said Islamification would it not? Anyways, I was just making the point that our laws could be a lot worse than they are in response to a poster who suggested that it was our politicians who are to blame and not refugees.

I also think refugees are not at fault for wanting a better life for themselves and their families but the influx is now unsustainable. The fact that we are not sending back boats is encouraging them to attempt this perilous journey and there are radical violent extremists arriving with legitimate people.

stefanovich

Deleted User wrote: »

Who are the voices telling us that the Limerick forum is the right place to spout gabber about the muzzlemans invading or the muzzlemans needing protection or yada yada yada?

Mark Tapley wrote: »

So the culture you want to preserve has a sign out saying " Fúck off refugees ".

What are you two doing in a thread about Limerick? Stirring things up to get the thread shut down no doubt.

stefanovich

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Plenty of Muslims in Cork, but very rare I see a Woman wear Veil, is it actually that common in Limerick?

Yes, there are quite a lot these days. I find it worrisome.

stefanovich

stefanovich wrote: »

What are you two doing in a thread about Limerick? Stirring things up to get the thread shut down no doubt.

Don't slip on the Astroturf mate.

White power forever! (Did I get that right?)