M50 - Eastern Bypass

marno21

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/councillors-oppose-eastern-bypass-to-make-m50-fully-circular-1.2666479

In the news again after it was proposed to protect the route corridor in the recent Dublin transport strategy

JupiterKid

marno21 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/councillors-oppose-eastern-bypass-to-make-m50-fully-circular-1.2666479

In the news again after it was proposed to protect the route corridor in the recent Dublin transport strategy

I think that building a motorway across Sandymount strand is a complete non-runner. The public would just not accept it.

From that same article I see the Dublin councilors have voted against plans to increase apartment building heights - idiots! There is a housing crisis and building high rise will help solve the problem.

Idbatterim

it makes perfect sense to keep the route clear. For a start there is no way it would surface run across Dublin bay. I also don't buy the 4 billion cost for a minute. So much traffic could be taken off the existing m50 and city streets if we had a full ring road...

They come out with "oh it could have housed an extra 2500 people" yeah tens of thousands extra could have been housed based on a decision you voted on the other day, bloody hypocrites...

cgcsb

For the cost we could have Metro North and DARTu and DART to Maynooth. which would do a lot more to remove cars from the road permanently rather than just divert them and attract more of them.

Carawaystick

What is the problem this road will solve?

L1011

JupiterKid wrote: »

From that same article I see the Dublin councilors have voted against plans to increase apartment building heights - idiots! There is a housing crisis and building high rise will help solve the problem.

They voted to increase them, just not as much as the proposal (or enough).

D.L.R.

Don't think the Eastern Bypass is a realistic prospect any time soon. However there's no practical reason at all to disrupt this protected route corridor, only ideological ones, which seems rampant in DCC these days. Cause for concern.

This is the kind of nonsense that led us to building housing right up to the northern line tracks, forever restricting its capacity.

We need the few remaining route corridors in this city to be preserved, not to build more gaffs on!!! Gobshytes.

D.L.R.

Dublin City only control the route between the Port Tunnel and Sandymount Strand. The rest is DLR.

This is probably about property development around the Irish Glass site. No other reason for conflict here.

Chris_5339762

Keep the land, even at some remote point in the future it should be used for Rail/Luas/Bus etc. None of those are any more pie-in-the-sky than the Eastern Bypass anyway.

It may eventually get built but will be in a tunnel under Sandymount. No way a bridge will be built... and anyone who says it will be us just scaremongering.

vicwatson

Carawaystick wrote: »

What is the problem this road will solve?

Larry be able to get over to Bono's quicker

yannakis

I'm not aware of the exact route planned, but when reading the title my mind thought that a tunnel extension from somewhere under Fairview Park to N11 or Sandyford M50 junction would make absolute sense.

Carawaystick

YanisK wrote: »

I'm not aware of the exact route planned, but when reading the title my mind thought that a tunnel extension from somewhere under Fairview Park to N11 or Sandyford M50 junction would make absolute sense.

What's the problem this would solve?
How much traffic goes from Sandyford to M1? How much would pay €20 to go that way at peak times?

yannakis

Carawaystick wrote: »

What's the problem this would solve?
How much traffic goes from Sandyford to M1? How much would pay €20 to go that way at peak times?

The idea is to be able to reach North and South from the city centre/port without going in rounds.

Currently, shiploads of trucks blend with commuters every morning in the tunnel and then on the M50 to reach N4/7/11 and go their way.

monument

YanisK wrote: »

The idea is to be able to reach North and South from the city centre/port without going in rounds.

Currently, shiploads of trucks blend with commuters every morning in the tunnel and then on the M50 to reach N4/7/11 and go their way.

Dublin Port said at a council meeting that they don't need the Eastern Bypass, they mainly just want the route confirmed and away from their land.

Carawaystick

YanisK wrote: »

The idea is to be able to reach North and South from the city centre/port without going in rounds.

Currently, shiploads of trucks blend with commuters every morning in the tunnel and then on the M50 to reach N4/7/11 and go their way.

How would getting trucks to Sandyford be substantially better for trucks going to the N7 or N4 than at present?

yannakis

Carawaystick wrote: »

How would getting trucks to Sandyford be substantially better for trucks going to the N7 or N4 than at present?

I'm getting the feeling that don't commute over the M50 :pac:

M50 S from Ballymun to Red Cow is very often clogged up like mayonnaise. Splitting the loads on both directions will keep traffic flowing..

Carawaystick

How many trucks? How much would the tunnel cost to construct
How much to operate?

Cost/benefit ratio?

com1

I would hazard a guess that trucks are not the main congestion problem on the M50

_Kaiser_

YanisK wrote: »

I'm getting the feeling that don't commute over the M50 :pac:

M50 S from Ballymun to Red Cow is very often clogged up like mayonnaise. Splitting the loads on both directions will keep traffic flowing..

Have you ever tried to get out of Sandyford onto M50 N at rush hour? It's bad enough as it is now, but if there's a crash (frequently) the entire thing grinds to a halt from J14 onwards. I can't imagine that adding in a load of trucks would improve things.

roadmaster

The Eastern Bypass has popped up yet again

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/eastern-bypass-plans-could-scupper-film-studio-prospects-1.3466160?mode=amp

marno21

If the Government refuses to build schemes such as the Eastern bypass and Cork North Ring Road but preserve potential corridors, it may be time to decide on a finalised alignment and protect that rather than "it could go along this route".

Aontachtoir

marno21 wrote: »

If the Government refuses to build schemes such as the Eastern bypass and Cork North Ring Road

In fairness Marno, the Government isn't exactly sitting on a giant pile of money and refusing to spend it. I can't think of any good reason why politicians would not be gagging to build these roads as quickly as possible - especially in an election year. If the roads aren't being built, it's due to reasons somewhat beyond the Government's reasonable control.

marno21

Aontachtoir wrote: »

In fairness Marno, the Government isn't exactly sitting on a giant pile of money and refusing to spend it. I can't think of any good reason why politicians would not be gagging to build these roads as quickly as possible - especially in an election year. If the roads aren't being built, it's due to reasons somewhat beyond the Government's reasonable control.

Sorry I phrased that wrong.

If there is no intention to build these schemes in the short or even medium term, define the routes themselves rather than potential corridors and protect that. There's no point in development land lying idle because it's a "potential corridor" for a potential future road scheme.

roadmaster

marno21 wrote: »

Sorry I phrased that wrong.

If there is no intention to build these schemes in the short or even medium term, define the routes themselves rather than potential corridors and protect that. There's no point in development land lying idle because it's a "potential corridor" for a potential future road scheme.

Unfortunately LA's seam to use this excuse alot. I know several developments that have being turned down because they may build a road. It does not help with strategic planning, it even happens with one off houses ( i know one off houses is the height off evil on boards.ie)

cgcsb

The state needs t spend money, tens of billions, on public transport before it even considers another motorway scheme. I see they're hard at work widening the M7, so that more cars can come up from the country and sit in traffic and kill us with diesel fumes. eff that, get tunneling now, get electrifying the railways now.

CeilingFly

cgcsb wrote: »

The state needs t spend money, tens of billions, on public transport before it even considers another motorway scheme. I see they're hard at work widening the M7, so that more cars can come up from the country and sit in traffic and kill us with diesel fumes. eff that, get tunneling now, get electrifying the railways now.

they need to build and outer orbital to stop everyone having to go to M50 to get to airport / North.

M7 widening will mainly benefit the areas where the 3 lanes are going as there are no additional lanes being built from Naas to Dublin, so the effect on Naas to Dublin will be miniscule, but it will allow for a lot of development, esp of the commercial Millenium park which hopefully sees more companies move out of Dublin.

cgcsb

CeilingFly wrote: »

they need to build and outer orbital to stop everyone having to go to M50 to get to airport / North.

M7 widening will mainly benefit the areas where the 3 lanes are going as there are no additional lanes being built from Naas to Dublin, so the effect on Naas to Dublin will be miniscule, but it will allow for a lot of development, esp of the commercial Millenium park which hopefully sees more companies move out of Dublin.

Precisely miniscule improvement, redirect the resources to public transport infrastructure.

Besides what's the point anyway, Irish people can't drive on three lane roads, they all think that the middle lane is the slow lane. Maybe spend some money educating people how to use these roads.

Heartbreak Hank

marno21 wrote: »

If there is no intention to build these schemes in the short or even medium term, define the routes themselves rather than potential corridors and protect that. There's no point in development land lying idle because it's a "potential corridor" for a potential future road scheme.

To what extent can a corridor be protected though - like isn't the M20 gone for a full redesign even though it had been granted planning permission in the past?

marno21

Heartbreak Hank wrote: »

To what extent can a corridor be protected though - like isn't the M20 gone for a full redesign even though it had been granted planning permission in the past?

City ring roads like the N40 and Eastern bypass will only ever really have one corridor because only one route will be protected (the perceived best route) and any other route would require significant demolition

The difference with the M20 and other similar schemes is they could take totally different routes (e.g. via Mitchelstown or Cahir)

roadmaster

cgcsb wrote: »

Precisely miniscule improvement, redirect the resources to public transport infrastructure.

Besides what's the point anyway, Irish people can't drive on three lane roads, they all think that the middle lane is the slow lane. Maybe spend some money educating people how to use these roads.

Your being very nice there, irish people cant drive on single carriageways from what i have seen in my travels

loyatemu

it hasn't gone away:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/housing-plan-in-dublin-halted-to-facilitate-eastern-bypass-1.4189623

Personally I think as time goes by this is less and less likely to ever be built due to the astronomical cost, environmental considerations and the prioritisation of the public transport (in Dublin at least). The section from the north port to the south port might happen, though this could be achieved easier and cheaper with a bridge if you weren't concerned with the longer term aim of completing the ring.

Idbatterim

look it wouldnt be my top priority, but adding capacity to exisiting m50 doesnt isnt really feasible for the upset it would now cause, they certainly could have done it at the time, but of course they adopted the , do the least possible option...

A full ring road makes sense, dublin is going to have over 2,000,000 in the not too distant future!

build dublin metro and you hoover large amounts of traffic off the M50! it would have taken more off if it didnt stop in bloody charlemont, but went out to sandyford as planned! :rolleyes:

the greens if they want to do something for the environment, should pull the plug on government, if construction doesnt start on dublin metro, with the current time frames as planned. Using dart underground as a gun to the head, is possibly asking a bit much here, but I think they should get the ball rolling on that again now. CIE are sitting on land worth a lot, in heuston station etc, it should be exploited to part fund DU...

"One of the larger plots was an 11-hectare site on East Wall Road, close to the port tunnel and the docklands, which could have accommodated hundreds of apartments." what would the plan be for there 5-6 floor apartments? if they are going to waste the land, like they currently do, better letting it sit there, until they get real about densities!

Idbatterim

loyatemu wrote: »

it hasn't gone away:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/housing-plan-in-dublin-halted-to-facilitate-eastern-bypass-1.4189623

Personally I think as time goes by this is less and less likely to ever be built due to the astronomical cost, environmental considerations and the prioritisation of the public transport (in Dublin at least). The section from the north port to the south port might happen, though this could be achieved easier and cheaper with a bridge if you weren't concerned with the longer term aim of completing the ring.

something needs to be done about the eastlink and the capacity there crossing north to south , maybe a new bridge and use the existing one as a northbound public transport and cycling etc. the east link toll should be scrapped, just sends more traffic down macken street bridge, which is a joke!

loyatemu

Idbatterim wrote: »

look it wouldnt be my top priority, but adding capacity to exisiting m50 doesnt isnt really feasible for the upset it would now cause, they certainly could have done it at the time, but of course they adopted the , do the least possible option...

when is it ever going to be a sufficient priority to get built though. If we had a few billion to spend on transport on Dublin, literally every other proposal is a better idea - DU, Metro South, FingLuas, any rail-based project you can dream up.

A massively expensive motorway connecting the southside with the city-centre is a hard sell in the era of climate action, that's before you consider the impact on Dublin Bay (depending on the design).

cgcsb

I think it makes sense for the South docks to be connected to the motorway network but creating a full ring road is heavy handed and there's no need for it.

Idbatterim

if you built the eastern bypass, you would funnel huge amounts of current m50 traffic, off the existing bit and get it from say sandyford to airport or thereabouts in less than half the distance. You can also get lots of buses using it, would need to be 3 lanes though ideally and while a bridge may work to cross the liffey, it would have to be tunnel from there....

Idbatterim

cgcsb wrote: »

I think it makes sense for the South docks to be connected to the motorway network but creating a full ring road is heavy handed and there's no need for it.

how is there no need for it? could you imagien telling cities with full rings, to close off a section?

Idbatterim

cgcsb wrote: »

I think it makes sense for the South docks to be connected to the motorway network but creating a full ring road is heavy handed and there's no need for it.

the east link has to be finished as a toll bridge. Its a joke and they do need to up the road capacity in the area and put in proper cycling and pedestrian facilities.

cgcsb

Idbatterim wrote: »

how is there no need for it? could you imagien telling cities with full rings, to close off a section?

Lots of cities have reduced road capacity in recent years. Building a new road like this only attracts more users.

We could build a public transport only bridge from liffey valley to Blanchardstown and greatly reduce M50 traffic but that will reduce toll revenue so not possible with current level of corruption.

Idbatterim

cgcsb wrote: »

Lots of cities have reduced road capacity in recent years. Building a new road like this only attracts more users.

We could build a public transport only bridge from liffey valley to Blanchardstown and greatly reduce M50 traffic but that will reduce toll revenue so not possible with current level of corruption.

Initially I thought this thread was about the outer bypass that has been proposed. the biggest bit of lunacy you could ever dream up! good idea about the LV to blanch PTB, but its the likes of this, that the greens should insist on as part of a programme for government. how exactly would that reduce traffic a lot?

Its kind of like ireland and climate change. Dublin is the china when it comes to scale here, its far easier making changes here that shift large amounts of people, than in rural areas.

cgcsb

If you want to make a north south journey anywhere in west Dublin, I.e. west of Palmerston, you basically have to get in a car and cross the westlink. If it were possible to walk cycle or take a bus between, say clondalkin and blanch in reasonable time more people would do it rather than sit on the M50 for long periods of time and pay tolls for the privilege

Idbatterim

cgcsb wrote: »

If you want to make a north south journey anywhere in west Dublin, I.e. west of Palmerston, you basically have to get in a car and cross the westlink. If it were possible to walk cycle or take a bus between, say clondalkin and blanch in reasonable time more people would do it rather than sit on the M50 for long periods of time and pay tolls for the privilege

say clondalking to blanch. if its for shopping, which would be the prime trip generator, are most of them not just going to liffey valley?

Idbatterim

denlapim wrote: »

I would be in favour of the M50 bypass getting built. It should go from the current J14 under a tunnel to the strand and then a bridge.

Sydney has a full motorway ring road and that’s a coastal city like Dublin.

not long back from sydney and melbourne, the amount of trams in melbourne was mental. What is mad about dublin, is that a city of 1,500,000 funnels nearly everything down either the quays or dame st and OCB/S. Its absolutely mental, life grafton street too. there is so much traffic, funnelled down so few streets

Carawaystick

Idbatterim wrote: »

say clondalking to blanch. if its for shopping, which would be the prime trip generator, are most of them not just going to liffey valley?

Not once you count all the employment in Blanch, Ballycoolin, out as far as facebook in Clonee; people going to work 5 days a week...

SeanW

I think that having a proper circle bypass would be very helpful, thus the Eastern bypass sounds good in theory.

But it's not priority 1. I don't think it should be seriously considered until both Metro Northern and Dart Underground (at minimum) are under construction.

cgcsb

Idbatterim wrote: »

say clondalking to blanch. if its for shopping, which would be the prime trip generator, are most of them not just going to liffey valley?

Shopping isn't the main trip generator. Nobody is shopping between 7 and 9am when m50 traffic is heaviest

loyatemu

SeanW wrote: »

I think that having a proper circle bypass would be very helpful, thus the Eastern bypass sounds good in theory.

It doesn't even sound good in theory, it would definitely generate more traffic. It's a classic 20th century solution.

Pete_Cavan

The Eastern Bypass would primarily be used for people driving from the M1 or N/M11 corridors into the centre of the city. That is the last thing we should be facilitating, the road capacity doesn't exist for the combined volume of cars that the DPT and Eastern Bypass would dump in the Docklands area and would cause such congestion that the M50 would be preferable for journeys to anywhere but the city centre.

From any point west/south of the M1, or west/north of Sandyford, (i.e. the majority of the city), to any other location, the M50 or other roads are more convenient than driving via the Port. The Port itself is looking to develop a bridge to allow the south docks to easier access the DPT and wider roads network. Increased public transport is a far better use of funds for commuter traffic.

AAAAAAAAA

I honestly don't think there is any better use for the corridor from Booterstown to Sandyford/Dundrum than using it to begin the inevitable railway ring line. This section alone would properly link the DART Corridor to UCD and the Green Line somewhere around Dundrum.

Idbatterim

AAAAAAAAA wrote: »

I honestly don't think there is any better use for the corridor from Booterstown to Sandyford/Dundrum than using it to begin the inevitable railway ring line. This section alone would properly link the DART Corridor to UCD and the Green Line somewhere around Dundrum.

so basically you would be extending Dart to Dundrum to connect with luas? imagine then building dart west instead of metro west...

AAAAAAAAA

Idbatterim wrote: »

so basically you would be extending Dart to Dundrum to connect with luas? imagine then building dart west instead of metro west...

No, the suggestion is for a line that interchanges at Booterstown, not a DART Spur. Whether it's built as an Irish-Gauge DART line or a Standard-Gauge Metro is somewhat arbitrary.

Considering Metro West is proposed to end it's overly circuitous route at Tallaght, perhaps there's scope to continue in though Knocklyon and under Dundrum, then take the reserved Eastern Bypass Corridor to interconnect with the DART.