LOI: League of Ireland Fixtures (Week 15), June 3-4

tastyt

The first division is absolutely ****ed. Kilkenny city, monaghan, Kildare, and now maybe athlone and Waterford going to the wall. If that doesn't show that it is an unsustainable model then what will??

The only thing that might save these clubs is the visit of the big boys like cork city, rovers and dundalk once or twice a year and bring the crowds through the gates. Scrapping the first division is a no Brainer.

Darkglasses

Monaghan were in the Premier when they folded. From a Wexford Youths perspective, getting humiliated by professional teams week-in week-out for the first 5-6 years would have probably not done us a lot of good attendance-wise. And when we did make it towards the top half of the first division, it was a major boost for us - a lot more so than making it from the bottom of the premier to anonymity in the middle of the table. It absolutely isn't a no-brainer, it needs to be thought through fully before making judgement.

tastyt

But how long does it need to be thought through for?? This isn't a new issue, it's going on for 15 years +.

How many clubs have to go out of business before it changes??

kksaints

Disappointing result last night. Rovers took their chances, we didn't. Kelly had a dreadful performance and had one of the worst free kicks I've seen. We just aren't very good this season.

Darkglasses

tastyt wrote: »

But how long does it need to be thought through for?? This isn't a new issue, it's going on for 15 years +.

How many clubs have to go out of business before it changes??

I agree that lots of things about the league needs to change, but I don't think scrapping the first division altogether is the answer. It would mean that all but about 4 clubs in the country have nothing to play for.

tastyt

Ya that would certainly be something that would have to be considered, there would have to be relegation of some sort to an intermediate or regional level.

Most of the teams in the first division have nothing to play for though as it is

It's so frustrating really, I hate these conversations because the bottom line is the reason clubs are in trouble is mainly got to do with the Irish football fan, they just don't go and support their local team especially in a rural area.

Outside of some urban centres we are an extremely GAA oriented sports culture and it's very difficult to break their hold when kids are playing the games every single day in school and the football clubs have them for an hour or two a week.

It's a seperate issue but it's at the core of our problems

CSF

In the Athlone case it's not really a how the league is structured thing. When a club that's not towards the top of the attendances list, without other solid income streams, puts together a budget that is the highest in their division, it's never a surprise when it turns out that the numbers don't add up.

This was last season now, not this year, but it was all the more noticeable as a Shels fan as we weren't stretching the budget, and lost out on a number of players to them, despite the fact that we'd be generating more income to them. It's absolutely not a good thing that a club is in this situation but it's completely of their own making and lessons need to be learnt. This was predicted by many at the start of last season.

SantryRed

Roar wrote: »

My word you lot really are bad losers. Great to see

As a Shels fan (nothing to shout about), it is never ever a red card. It's not two footed, it's not over the ball. I genuinely amn't sure if Twitter is loading a different foul judging by how you are describing it.

red sean

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Athlone was indeed smaller but it was more of an Army town back then. Over the years a number of things have happened which impact on the demand/support for ATFC:-

- The # of soldiers and their families have declined - these were always a strong cohort of the ATFC fan base.

- The increase in population is mostly an influx of people who didn't previously have connections to the town and don't have an in built affinity to the club.

- Competition: This can't be underestimated. ATFC are competing with other sports (both GAA and Rugby have really taken off in Athlone over the last 2-3 decades) and the availability of UK premier league and European soccer on TV not only makes it easier to watch soccer but it then sets a very high bar for what people expect to see when they go to a game and going to watch ATFC just doesn't live up to that.

- Mismanagement - I recall after the success of winning the LOI twice in the early 1980's and the whole AC Milan adventure ATFC spent a pile of money buying a new clubhouse and that, for me anyway, was the beginning of the slippery slope. The clubhouse became a glorified late drinking club, lost a pile of money and was shut down. It was eventually demolished. Since then there's been the move from St Met's park to Lissywollen which is a fine stadium but the club can't attract the gate receipts and sponsorship to run a commercially viable club. They are forever incurring deficits and having to be baled out one way or another. It's simply not sustainable any more.

- Disconnection from the local community - There doesn't seem to be any formal connection or affinity between ATFC and the local soccer clubs such as Willow Park FC and St Peters FC. People who play for or support Willow Park and St Peters tend not to support ATFC.

Not sure what the business people of Athlone have to do with the success or failure of ATFC? Why would any business want to spend a few thousand Euro advertising to a couple of hundred people every week? Why would any business want to be associated with such a poorly managed club when there are other sports or social activities they can spend/donate their money to which will give them a far greater audience and/or positive PR. Clubs have to offer something compelling for businesses to part with their hard earned cash and ATFC do a very poor job relative to the other sports clubs in the area.



Many iterations of the management committee over the last 15-20 years have tackled this problem without success. They always see it coming and they always do what they can to scrape by but you can't keep pulling a rabbit out of a hat every year and eventually you have to succumb to the economic reality that there simply isn't a market in Athlone for a commercially viable professional soccer club any more. The numbers just don't add up and haven't added up for years.

100% agree. Clubs, regardless of their heritage, don't have a divine right to exist. Unless the FAI are going to start subsidising the existence of clubs for some sort of "strategic" reason (which I personally wouldn't agree with) clubs who have don't have sufficient paying support to make them viable have to be let die. There will be a lot of wringing of hands and pointing of fingers but a lot of the people who do the complaining will be the very people who don't go to matches week in week out.

Thank you for a very informative post, albeit very sad reading.

Paz-CCFC

Fantastic result last night. Really needed the win and we got that. More or less makes up for the dropped points earlier on in the season. The penalty miss clearly caused our lads' heads to drop a bit, while rejuvenating Dundalk. We maybe rode our luck a bit at the end with the block and the clearance off the line, but sure, that's football. We got unlucky in the 2-1 loss and the Cup Final last season, with late shots off the woodwork - sometimes you get a bit of luck. Overall, we deserved it, though - we had enough chances to score a second well before Dundalk's short period at the end.

Obviously I'm biased, but I thought the sending off was fair. Shields lost control of the ball and lunged in. You see red cards for that very often. It's worth nothing that Dundalk's official match report suggests that they agreed with the decision. When we beat them in Oriel in March, the report said that we only got the penalty as the ref was "under pressure from the visiting bench". If there were even a hint of the red being soft, I'd expect them to say it in their report. As stated earlier, O'Donnell was maybe lucky not to see red, as well. Made a foul shortly before his booking that could've been a yellow, but was given a warning instead. Got the booking soon after and then committed a few more fouls. Could've gotten a second for persistent fouling. But the ref is always going to be very careful about sending two players off. He got the benefit of the doubt in the President's Cup match, too, when he was on a yellow and decided to jump up and catch the ball.

I've often read complaints online from Dundalk fans that other teams get physical with them because they don't know how to combat their apparently fantastic football. Well, when the shoe is on the other foot and it's not going all their way, they can turn into a very ill-disciplined side. I suppose when you're used to turning over teams in the last couple of years, you can feel a bit affronted when the opposition has the gall to actually beat you, three times in a row at that.

Fantastic result no doubt, but Dundalk still very much favourites for the title. They're still top of the league, after all. We just have to keep our run going. I've no doubt that both sides will hit rough patches later on in the season - it always happens. We just have to keep picking up points while the going is good. If we can do that, then those points along with the head-to-head matches could be the difference.

doncarlos

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

Fantastic result last night. Really needed the win and we got that. More or less makes up for the dropped points earlier on in the season. The penalty miss clearly caused our lads' heads to drop a bit, while rejuvenating Dundalk. We maybe rode our luck a bit at the end with the block and the clearance off the line, but sure, that's football. We got unlucky in the 2-1 loss and the Cup Final last season, with late shots off the woodwork - sometimes you get a bit of luck. Overall, we deserved it, though - we had enough chances to score a second well before Dundalk's short period at the end.

Dunno if it was a case of heads dropping or instructions from the bench to sit back and defend what you had. Regardless, Cork were deserved winners. Dundalk were very poor and didn't try to play any kind of football until the last 30 minutes.

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

Obviously I'm biased, but I thought the sending off was fair. Shields lost control of the ball and lunged in. You see red cards for that very often. It's worth nothing that Dundalk's official match report suggests that they agreed with the decision. When we beat them in Oriel in March, the report said that we only got the penalty as the ref was "under pressure from the visiting bench". If there were even a hint of the red being soft, I'd expect them to say it in their report. As stated earlier, O'Donnell was maybe lucky not to see red, as well. Made a foul shortly before his booking that could've been a yellow, but was given a warning instead. Got the booking soon after and then committed a few more fouls. Could've gotten a second for persistent fouling. But the ref is always going to be very careful about sending two players off. He got the benefit of the doubt in the President's Cup match, too, when he was on a yellow and decided to jump up and catch the ball.

I think you certainly are being biased. Have you even seen the replays?

https://twitter.com/SetantaSports/status/738823203578077185

It was never a red, I'm not even sure it was a booking. Shields turned out of the tackle at the last moment. The way the Cork player spun and acted like he was shot, conned the Ref. Shields was an idiot for jumping in like that and giving the ref a decision to make though.

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

I've often read complaints online from Dundalk fans that other teams get physical with them because they don't know how to combat their apparently fantastic football. Well, when the shoe is on the other foot and it's not going all their way, they can turn into a very ill-disciplined side. I suppose when you're used to turning over teams in the last couple of years, you can feel a bit affronted when the opposition has the gall to actually beat you, three times in a row at that.

You sound like John Caulfield there. Just missing "sure, lookit"

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

Fantastic result no doubt, but Dundalk still very much favourites for the title. They're still top of the league, after all. We just have to keep our run going. I've no doubt that both sides will hit rough patches later on in the season - it always happens. We just have to keep picking up points while the going is good. If we can do that, then those points along with the head-to-head matches could be the difference.

I'd say we're maybe 51 to 49 favorites. We have absolutely nothing up front and Kenny is reluctant to address this. We'll get away with it against the weaker sides but against Cork when chances are at a premium we have been left wanting.

dfx-

Aside from the result, the red card to Shields could be just as important. Dundalk are a different side without him, their key player.

What game(s) is he going to miss?

CHealy

Only got around to watching the game back this morning, and first off, what a great advert for the league City v Dundalk has been the last few years. Almost full ground again in TC with the sun blazing and a fantastic pitch to play ball on. Setantas coverage is also unreal, its so much more professional that anything RTE nave produced its actually scary, so fair play to them.

Thought City were well deserved winners, the first half in particular City played Dundalk off the pitch, some great football. Pats fans must be sick that we got Browne and Bolger in return for them getting the Dennehy sisters, Bolger is different class altogheter. Dooley got a great goal tbf, I havnt been a fan of him since he came down but that 1st half Dundalk didnt know what to do with him.

I was down in the corner where the red card happened, and my first thought when it happpened was that it had to be a red, looked blatant enough that he went lunging in studs up. On viewing the replays this morning, its pretty clear that it was very harsh, a strong yellow and a next one you are off from the ref might have done but he didnt have the replay obviously, so i can see why he thought it was a red.

I think the penalty miss gave Dundalk a much needed lift and that last 15 minutes was hell on earth, McNulty almost allowed his 1-a-game howler Dundalk the chance to score but Seanie was there to clear, from my angle in the ground it was in until the little maestro popped up.

They had to win and they did, but Dundalk will still be favourites for the title no doubt about it. Great to see City changing their tunethis season and playing some really impressive football at times, we are getting there slowly.

monkey9

Clear red card for Shields. Don't understand the complaints.

applehunter

Beattie's reaction is OTT.

Think its an clumsy challenge with little malice. Dan Murray & Damien Lynch were in agreement.

https://twitter.com/SetantaSports/status/738823203578077185