Nissan Leaf charging times (and means)

makeorbrake

Hi. Can anyone clarify - are all Leaf's capable of charging up to 80% within 30 minutes using DC Chademo? How long does it take to achieve 100% charge using this method?

Will have access to a 7/22kW DC chademo charger. Will all Leafs work with this?


What would the charge time be if charging at home via a regular AC socket?

Has there been any changes with regard to the above since the Leaf was first produced until the current vehicle produced right now in 2016?

The same question with regard to range and battery life expectancy/performance?


Apologies for all the questions - but I'm trying to get my head round all the options available - and I'm being forced to compromise (albeit that I have to be careful that I don't compromise to an extent that I end up with a vehicle that simply doesn't work with my circumstances).

Ruby31

makeorbrake wrote: »

Hi. Can anyone clarify - are all Leaf's capable of charging up to 80% within 30 minutes using DC Chademo? How long does it take to achieve 100% charge using this method?

Will have access to a 7/22kW DC chademo charger. Will all Leafs work with this?


What would the charge time be if charging at home via a regular AC socket?

Has there been any changes with regard to the above since the Leaf was first produced until the current vehicle produced right now in 2016?

The same question with regard to range and battery life expectancy/performance?


Apologies for all the questions - but I'm trying to get my head round all the options available - and I'm being forced to compromise (albeit that I have to be careful that I don't compromise to an extent that I end up with a vehicle that simply doesn't work with my circumstances).

Hi,
I have a 152 Leaf. Yes, as far as I know, all Leafs can charge using Chademo. I've found the speed at which it reaches 80% depends on the temperature. On warmer days like today, the battery charges a good bit faster (maybe 15-20 mins to get to 80%). On freezing cold days, it can crawl. Once passed 80%, the charge slows right down to the speed of a slow-charger, so if there's another Leaf queuing, I would unplug and move to a slow-charger. It could take another 15 mins approx to get to 100%, although for safety reasons, some fast-chargers shut off at approx 92%.

I usually charge the car overnight at home, but the odd time I've charged during the day, it took 3-4 hours to reach 100% (again, outside temperature impacts speed of charge).

I'm not sure if there's been any changes to the Leaf over the years, but as far as I know, there's a new model coming out soon enough that will have an extra 150km range (I'm open to being corrected on that).

It's a great car to drive. It can be awkward sometimes if, like me you rely on public charging due to the amount of mileage I do. Luckily most of the time, my local fast-charger is available, but sometimes there can be a queue of one, two or (if you're very unlucky!) three Leafs ahead of you.

Best of luck. You're right to do your research!

makeorbrake

@Ruby31: Thanks for taking the time to post on this. I've been going round the houses on this - started looking at a Renault Kangoo - which are cheap as chips in the used market - but Renault decided not to facilitate rapid charging on them. Then looked at the Zoe - managed to work out that I could import and get battery transferred from R. UK to R. IRL - but then I scrutinised their lease rates, it's a complete waste of time (in my view - regardless of mileage profile).
To circumvent both the battery lease thing and the lack of rapid charging, I turned my attention to both the Citroen Berlingo E & the Peugeot Partner E - both of which facilitate rapid charging and the battery is included. However, due to the fact that there are so few of them around and that they are relatively new on the market, the handful available 2nd hand are wildly expensive.

...And so after all of that, I'm circling back to the Leaf!


You have confirmed that DC Chademo charging is possible on your 152 Leaf. Can others confirm that this is still available on the earlier Leaf models? Furthermore, can others confirm if the battery is as reliable and provides the same range on the earlier models?

I have been trying to glean some info off the net on the subject via the web - but it seems from what I read if there are much in the way of performance improvements between the older model and the newer one. Can anyone confirm when precisely this switchover happened at Nissan?

cros13

There are three versions of the current Leaf:

Mk1 - 2010 to mid-132 reg

• 24kWh First Generation battery chemistry - ~8-10 years to 70% capacity at average mileage in the Irish climate / really doesn't like ambient heat or frequent rapid charging / not aging well in warm climates
• 5 year /160,000km battery warranty from new
• Resistive Cabin Heater - uses a lot more power to heat the cabin
• Visia spec in the UK did not include rapid charging, some Irish XEs did not include rapid charging

Mk 1.5 - mid-132 reg to 152 reg (some registered in Jan 2016)

• 24kWh "lizard" battery - More resilient battery chemistry / very little loss with either calendar years, high mileage or regular rapid charging
• 5 year /100,000km battery warranty from new
• 100 minor enhancements throughout the car
• More boot space due to charger being moved to front of the car
• Heat Pump on SE/Acenta and SVE/Tekna grades - uses as little as 10% of the power of the old resistive heater to heat the cabin
• Visia grade in the UK did not include rapid charging

Mk 1.75 - 161 reg forward

• Will be the last revision of the current leaf
• Choice of 24kWh "lizard" battery or new 30kWh NMC battery
• 5 year / 100,000km warranty or 8 year / 160,000km warranty for the respective battery options
• Better infotainment/nav system

I've owned both a MK1.5 Leaf (141) and a MK1.75 (161 30kWh).... and of course my i3
The Mk1.5 had better battery stats the day I traded it in than the day I picked it up. I do circa 50,000km a year.

My honest opinion is don't touch battery rentals with Renault. There were issues with severe capacity loss on the early renault batteries (kangoo/fluence) and renault refused to replace them. Insurance policies renault purchased on the batteries now show a total value for the pack lower than owners are being charged for the lease annually. All that and the fact that selling a car with a battery lease is very difficult, depreciation is substantially higher as a result.
The ZOE prior to 151 reg can rapid charge at 43kW and it's a great little car... but the battery lease....

Residuals on cars with purchased batteries are pretty decent.

I've never heard of a 22kW rapid charger installed in Ireland though... Are you sure you're not confusing a 22kW Type 2 AC chargepoint for a rapid?

Water John

The only thing I can add to these excellent ones above is from my short experience with the 30Kw 161 Leaf is that is charges right through to 100% without slowing down. That is at the rate of 2% per min approx.

makeorbrake

@Ruby31: Thanks for taking the time to post on this. I've been going round the houses on this - started looking at a Renault Kangoo - which are cheap as chips in the used market - but Renault decided not to facilitate rapid charging on them. Then looked at the Zoe - managed to work out that I could import and get battery transferred from R. UK to R. IRL - but then I scrutinised their lease rates, it's a complete waste of time (in my view - regardless of mileage profile).
To circumvent both the battery lease thing and the lack of rapid charging, I turned my attention to both the Citroen Berlingo E & the Peugeot Partner E - both of which facilitate rapid charging and the battery is included. However, due to the fact that there are so few of them around and that they are relatively new on the market, the handful available 2nd hand are wildly expensive.

...And so after all of that, I'm circling back to the Leaf!


You have confirmed that DC Chademo charging is possible on your 152 Leaf. Can others confirm that this is still available on the earlier Leaf models? Furthermore, can others confirm if the battery is as reliable and provides the same range on the earlier models?

I have been trying to glean some info off the net on the subject via the web - but it seems from what I read if there are much in the way of performance improvements between the older and the newer one. Can anyone confirm when precisely this switchover happened at Nissan?
On the one hand, I'm fortunate in that my employer now has a few chargers in place. On the other, I have a 40 mile commute to drive each way - each day so I have ot be weary ref. range and charging.

BoatMad

makeorbrake wrote: »

@Ruby31: Thanks for taking the time to post on this. I've been going round the houses on this - started looking at a Renault Kangoo - which are cheap as chips in the used market - but Renault decided not to facilitate rapid charging on them. Then looked at the Zoe - managed to work out that I could import and get battery transferred from R. UK to R. IRL - but then I scrutinised their lease rates, it's a complete waste of time (in my view - regardless of mileage profile).
To circumvent both the battery lease thing and the lack of rapid charging, I turned my attention to both the Citroen Berlingo E & the Peugeot Partner E - both of which facilitate rapid charging and the battery is included. However, due to the fact that there are so few of them around and that they are relatively new on the market, the handful available 2nd hand are wildly expensive.

...And so after all of that, I'm circling back to the Leaf!


You have confirmed that DC Chademo charging is possible on your 152 Leaf. Can others confirm that this is still available on the earlier Leaf models? Furthermore, can others confirm if the battery is as reliable and provides the same range on the earlier models?

I have been trying to glean some info off the net on the subject via the web - but it seems from what I read if there are much in the way of performance improvements between the older and the newer one. Can anyone confirm when precisely this switchover happened at Nissan?
On the one hand, I'm fortunate in that my employer now has a few chargers in place. On the other, I have a 40 mile commute to drive each way - each day so I have ot be weary ref. range and charging.

For 40 mile commute a used gen 1 leaf with a potential of a bar loss is not a terribly wise decision , it's possible to do that range but it's pushing its limits.

Just to confirm their are significant differences between. Leaf generations, buying the latest model you can afford is always better

makeorbrake

cros13 wrote: »

There are three versions of the current Leaf:

wow, that's a hell of a post and precisely the info I was looking for - thanks for taking the time out to post. I guess this is available on the web somewhere but it didn't seem that obvious.

cros13 wrote:

I've owned both a MK1.5 Leaf (141) and a MK1.75 (161 30kWh).... The Mk1.5 had better battery stats the day I traded it in than the day I picked it up. I do circa 50,000km a year.

Ok, so it sounds like I should be going after the Mk1.5 (the MK1.75 isn't an affordable option for me anyway so that's out). I had been reading mixed info re. difference between Mk1 &1.5 as regards battery performance - but your post is adding clarity to that - so thank you.

cros13 wrote: »

My honest opinion is don't touch battery rentals with Renault.

Couldn't agree more - I investigated that whole option and it wasn't until I did the maths on the lease that I realised just how ridiculous it is (regardless of mileage plan).

cros13 wrote: »

The ZOE prior to 151 reg can rapid charge at 43kW and it's a great little car... but the battery lease...

And after 151, do they still not have rapid charging or is performance sub-par? (not going there but just curious).

cros13 wrote: »

I've never heard of a 22kW rapid charger installed in Ireland though... Are you sure you're not confusing a 22kW Type 2 AC chargepoint for a rapid?

I think I'm getting myself very confused and not sure if the person that I got the info off was totally clear on this either. I've attached details on system that is being installed. This is the connector. I guess I *don't* mean rapid charging - for that particular charge point (but of course, it will be important to be able to avail of rapid charging elsewhere). What I was told was 7 & 22kW charging - chademo and DC. However, I can't be certain as I dont think the person providing the info was 100% certain. That brochure seems to suggest AC at 22kW?

BoatMad wrote: »

For 40 mile commute a used gen 1 leaf with a potential of a bar loss is not a terribly wise decision , it's possible to do that range but it's pushing its limits. Just to confirm their are significant differences between. Leaf generations, buying the latest model you can afford is always better

I definitely can't disagree. Ideally, I'd like to have waited until next year when the next gen of EV's with a more appropriate range will be available. However, even if I waited, I'd never buy brand new - so that would mean waiting at least an additional year still. I suppose I realise that this is not ideal but if I can make it work (accounting for some occasional inconvenience on longer trips), I stand to save €2000/year on fuel (before consideration of ICE related servicing & repairs - which are considerable as I'm doing high mileage).
I'm veering towards Mk 1.5 given cros13's clarification above. With charging point at work and a few pubic chargers en route to fall back on, you think that's workable in my scenario (even allowing for some battery degradation)?

yqtwqxqm

161 LEaf charges 10% to 95% in about 25 mins.
But there are some rapid chargers, like the one in Glasnevin, that charge the car about 30% slower than normal.

That pic of the charger socket you showed is AC, it's a Type II, most likely 7 Kw , perhaps capable of 22 kw on 3 phase but it's unlikely it's installed on 3 phase not even my work place installed the dual 7 kw or 14 kw total on 3 phase.

The MK 1.5 is definitely the way to go, after nearly 1.5 years and almost 40,000 kms my leaf is showing about 1-2% loss in battery capacity though I do drive it quiet hard resulting in the need to charge it more but it's a lot of fun , that 1-2% may not even be real but I don't care with the work charge point that would be well over 10 years usage and I won't have it past 2018 anyway.

My commute is about 130-135 kms.

22 kw charge points would be a waste because only the Zoe and Model S with optional dual 10 Kw chargers could use it at 20-22 Kw and why would you need this over an 8-12 hr work day ? 3 kw is plenty.

stesaurus

AC and DC are different. Only the Zoe is capable of only using 1 type. It uses AC for both slow and fast charging. The rest use DC for fast and AC for slow.
DC then has two types of charging, CCS and Chademo. Think HD dvd versus bluray. Leaf uses Chademo and rest available in Ireland uses CCS.
Leaf; you won't be able to use more than 6.6kw AC on the work charger anyway. It's limited based on the on-board charger within the car. Most Leafs are 3.3kw so that's the max, you'll need a small bit of work to try find a 6.6kw second hand as most people go with the cheaper option.
Zoe can use up to 22kw AC on brand new model or more likely up to 43kw on slightly older model. If the work charger is wired up 3 phase then you'll pretty much have a fast charger but as madlad said it's more likely 7kw single phase.
E-golf is 3.3kw max on AC, DC uses CCS
i3 will give you 7kw on AC, DC uses CCS.

If your commute is only 40m and you have a work charger then why worry about range? Go with the cheapest available Leaf and save up for a next gen model with the savings.

makeorbrake

Deleted User wrote: »

That pic of the charger socket you showed is AC, it's a Type II, most likely 7 Kw , perhaps capable of 22 kw on 3 phase but it's unlikely it's installed on 3 phase not even my work place installed the dual 7 kw or 14 kw total on 3 phase.

s.welstead wrote: »

If the work charger is wired up 3 phase then you'll pretty much have a fast charger but as madlad said it's more likely 7kw single phase.

It's capable of 22kW. It's right next to a sizeable manufacturing facility with 3phase, CHP units, etc.

Deleted User wrote: »

The MK 1.5 is definitely the way to go, after nearly 1.5 years and almost 40,000 kms my leaf is showing about 1-2% loss in battery capacity though I do drive it quiet hard resulting in the need to charge it more but it's a lot of fun , that 1-2% may not even be real but I don't care with the work charge point that would be well over 10 years usage and I won't have it past 2018 anyway.

Well that's encouraging. It was one of the things that concerned me when I was looking at the Renault/Peugeot/Citroen options - the battery degradation was worrying.

Deleted User wrote: »

22 kw charge points would be a waste because only the Zoe and Model S with optional dual 10 Kw chargers could use it at 20-22 Kw and why would you need this over an 8-12 hr work day ? 3 kw is plenty.

I guess they (work) are trying to future proof (and standards proof)? It's a sizeable workplace (in terms of workforce) - and whilst there will be little demand right now, that scenario won't be long in changing. It's in their interests to offer faster charging so as to squeeze maximum efficiency out of the charging point (in terms of the number of EV's it can service) I would imagine.

s.welstead wrote:

Leaf; you won't be able to use more than 6.6kw AC on the work charger anyway. It's limited based on the on-board charger within the car. Most Leafs are 3.3kw so that's the max, you'll need a small bit of work to try find a 6.6kw second hand as most people go with the cheaper option. If the work charger is wired up 3 phase then you'll pretty much have a fast charger.

Bear with me here - I'm not the sharpest knife in the box with this stuff!
So 6.6kW is the most I can get in any circumstance with a Leaf - regardless of whether the charging point is 3 phase or not? What's the difference in time taken to charge zero to 80% between a 3.3kw and 6.6kw charge? The 22kw charging facility at work wont come into play with the Leaf in any event - have I understood that correctly?

s.welstead wrote:

If your commute is only 40m and you have a work charger then why worry about range? Go with the cheapest available Leaf and save up for a next gen model with the savings.

I guess I'm already getting range anxiety.:D But seriously, I just want to make the best buying decision I can relative to the $ outlay. That commute (together with very short journeys) accounts for 95% of my driving. If it's possible, I'd like to accomodate the occasional longer journey as best I can with the least instances of re-charging - and the least amount of time spent actually recharging.

s.welstead wrote:

Go with the cheapest available Leaf and save up for a next gen model with the savings.

Absolutely. I'm confident (thanks in no small part to the info provided on this thread) that a Mk 1.5 Leaf is the way to go.
One final question on that. When looking at cars on autotrader - years 2013-2015, how can I determine which are Mk 1.5's? (in the case of the 2013's) without having to contact the seller? Will there be certain features listed that only became available on the Mk 1.5?

makeorbrake

makeorbrake wrote: »

It's capable of 22kW. It's right next to a sizeable manufacturing facility with 3phase, CHP units, etc.

It may indeed be capable and maybe they did cable it up for 3 phase but it's unlikely. One of our buildings where I work has a power requirement of 50 Mw of power that's guaranteed never to fail , apart from the charger but they still installed the 7 Kw x 2 on single phase.

makeorbrake wrote: »

Well that's encouraging. It was one of the things that concerned me when I was looking at the Renault/Peugeot/Citroen options - the battery degradation was worrying.
I guess they (work) are trying to future proof (and standards proof)? It's a sizeable workplace (in terms of workforce) - and whilst there will be little demand right now, that scenario won't be long in changing. It's in their interests to offer faster charging so as to squeeze maximum efficiency out of the charging point (in terms of the number of EV's it can service) I would imagine.

Yes the battery life is pretty good and I am impressed, as battery capacity gets larger then battery life increases by not having to cycle the battery so much and because it has a lot more usable energy battery degradation is not noticed nearly as much.

makeorbrake wrote: »

So 6.6kW is the most I can get in any circumstance with a Leaf - regardless of whether the charging point is 3 phase or not? What's the difference in time taken to charge zero to 80% between a 3.3kw and 6.6kw charge? The 22kw charging facility at work wont come into play with the Leaf in any event - have I understood that correctly?

Yes the 6.6 kw charger in the leaf is single phase only. But can still bring it from 30% to about 90% in 2 hrs, 2.5 hrs for the 30 Kwh, This would take 4 hrs with the 3.3 kw charger to 5 hrs with the 3.3 kw.

The last 5% can take a lot longer due to the BMS having to balance the cells and current ramps down as the battery reached 100% but you might find that 90% is plenty.

The 6.6 kw charger is extremely useful for the longer trips where you can plug into the standard street charge points ( the AC 3 phase 22 Kw points ). While you'll still rely on the DC fast chargers on the motorway and on longer trips the 6.6 kw charger can mean a lot less time is spent as fast chargers. Even though I don;t use it much I'm mighty glad of it when I need it, others say they do without it and it's not worth the money but I would rather pay for convenience when I need it and glad I did.

makeorbrake wrote: »

I guess I'm already getting range anxiety.:D But seriously, I just want to make the best buying decision I can relative to the $ outlay. That commute (together with very short journeys) accounts for 95% of my driving. If it's possible, I'd like to accomodate the occasional longer journey as best I can with the least instances of re-charging - and the least amount of time spent actually recharging.

You can still wait until 2018 either to see what's around but I think the 30 kwh and it's faster DC charging would probably be good enough but not for me to say, you need to take one for a test for a couple of days.

makeorbrake wrote: »

Absolutely. I'm confident (thanks in no small part to the info provided on this thread) that a Mk 1.5 Leaf is the way to go.
One final question on that. When looking at cars on autotrader - years 2013-2015, how can I determine which are Mk 1.5's? (in the case of the 2013's) without having to contact the seller? Will there be certain features listed that only became available on the Mk 1.5?

The Mk 1.5 has a separate heat + AC button on the climate control and darker interior and the Mk I had the lighter interior and only an AC button on the climate control, see the pics below. Also remember the Earlier XE Gen 1.5 models did not come with fast charging as standard and the XE trim and it also didn't have the much more efficient heat pump heating system.

MK 1.5 below (notice the brighter interior ? this is optional and rare on the MK 1.5 but the heat and ac button tell you it's the MK 1.5.



Here's the Mk I, notice the missing heat button on the Climate control ?

makeorbrake

Deleted User wrote: »

You can still wait until 2018 either to see what's around but I think the 30 kwh and it's faster DC charging would probably be good enough but not for me to say, you need to take one for a test for a couple of days.

You're right - I could keep waiting and I guess the plan was that I would wait until my current set of wheels reached end of life and then make the switch. However, it's a combination of three things;
- availability of charging at work makes the whole thing a lot more convenient, workable and economic (I think they'll only be charging 13cent/kWh)
- I wouldn't trust .gov re. the vrt deal for imports - i.e. once EV sales start to climb, they'll pull that incentive as they see their revenues start to drop.
- the economics work out. Cheap to charge at work and home (hell, I can even use a charger that's 5 minutes walk from the house - that I've never seen anyone use). I currently spend €2300/year on diesel (and that's driving a diesel that's very miserly on fuel) and always end up dropping a good few hundred each year on ICE related servicing and repair bills).

How long would it take for a full charge on one of those fast charge DC points that you mentioned?

When the ESB revisit their charging plans, is there any possibility that they will see since and NOT have a standing charge! That plan (which I understand is still in place - just on ice for the moment) was/is ludicrous.

There's only speculation as to what the ESB may or may not do at this time but because you will charge at home and at work it doesn't really matter if you got to use the public chargers a couple of times a year and pay for it.

The DC chargers will charge the 24 kwh and the 30 Kwh in about the same time, 25-30 mins. The 30 Kwh at 80% has about the same range as the 24 Kwh fully charged.

I've no idea about the grant or VRT, the Government were very quickly to remove the vrt exemption and offer a 5 K rebate instead.

You'll find it hard to find a 30 Kwh but the 24 Kwh is fine for your commute for now. It's perfect for me and allows me to put the boot down over the 130 kms if I need having the work charge point but I only need about 8 mins on the fast charger to get me home anyway and that gets me home with about 20% left.

makeorbrake

Deleted User wrote: »

There's only speculation as to what the ESB may or may not do at this time but because you will charge at home and at work it doesn't really matter if you got to use the public chargers a couple of times a year and pay for it.

Well, that would be the frustrating thing. In my case, if everything worked out, I should only need to access a public charger once in a blue moon. However, if they plan on having a standing charge of €17/month, that's just plain wrong. It should be priced per unit - that's equitable.

Deleted User wrote: »

The DC chargers will charge the 24 kwh and the 30 Kwh in about the same time, 25-30 mins. The 30 Kwh at 80% has about the same range as the 24 Kwh fully charged.

Perfect.

Deleted User wrote: »

I've no idea about the grant or VRT, the Government were very quickly to remove the vrt exemption and offer a 5 K rebate instead.

I just wouldn't trust them on that. Once the EV numbers become significant, they won't countenance losing revenue (and VRT has been a solid source of revenue for .gov ...and of course, there's a strong motor industry lobby that will want to protect their irish pricing).

Deleted User wrote: »

You'll find it hard to find a 30 Kwh but the 24 Kwh is fine for your commute for now. It's perfect for me and allows me to put the boot down over the 130 kms if I need having the work charge point but I only need about 8 mins on the fast charger to get me home anyway and that gets me home with about 20% left.

Wasn't even looking (for the 30kWh) to be honest. I thought that only came in pretty recently? Would that have come as an option from 2015 onwards?? Is it possible to upgrade an older Leaf with a higher capacity battery (not that I see a need right now...just curious)?

makeorbrake

makeorbrake wrote: »

Well, that would be the frustrating thing. In my case, if everything worked out, I should only need to access a public charger once in a blue moon. However, if they plan on having a standing charge of €17/month, that's just plain wrong. It should be priced per unit - that's equitable.

The idea was that for light users they pay for a months usage only when they need it, if you didn't need the chargers most of the year then you wouldn't have to pay but as I said there is no idea what they will do in the future.

makeorbrake wrote: »

I just wouldn't trust them on that. Once the EV numbers become significant, they won't countenance losing revenue (and VRT has been a solid source of revenue for .gov ...and of course, there's a strong motor industry lobby that will want to protect their irish pricing).

Well to be honest we're sending Billions of Euro's out of the Country to foreign energy companies every year in imported energy and electric cars have huge potential to greatly reduce the amount of energy imported and we're adding more renewables to the grid yearly too. So it could very well be the case where the money saved on importing foreign energy vastly out weighs any losses from VRT + we got emissions targets to meet.

makeorbrake wrote: »

Wasn't even looking (for the 30kWh) to be honest. I thought that only came in pretty recently? Would that have come as an option from 2015 onwards?? Is it possible to upgrade an older Leaf with a higher capacity battery (not that I see a need right now...just curious)?

Yes the 30 Kwh became available in January 2016. It's currently not yet possible to upgrade the 24 Kwh with a 30 Kwh in the same car, not yet at least.

makeorbrake

Deleted User wrote: »

The idea was that for light users they pay for a months usage only when they need it, if you didn't need the chargers most of the year then you wouldn't have to pay but as I said there is no idea what they will do in the future.

Ok, but it's conceivable that there would be EV users that make a long journey once a month....ergo you pay €17 for one journey (and probably more - as its exactly on a long range journey that you need to access the rapid chargers). They have to pay a standing charge for that!? - I'm sorry but it's completely wrong. Charge for usage - per unit. I have not looked but I doubt that any other jurisdiction has applied a standing charge (at least not at the level esb were proposing) for access to charging stations.

makeorbrake

makeorbrake wrote: »

Ok, but it's conceivable that there would be EV users that make a long journey once a month....ergo you pay €17 for one journey (and probably more - as its exactly on a long range journey that you need to access the rapid chargers). They have to pay a standing charge for that!? - I'm sorry but it's completely wrong. Charge for usage - per unit. I have not looked but I doubt that any other jurisdiction has applied a standing charge (at least not at the level esb were proposing) for access to charging stations.

There's no point talking about charges that don't exist now anyway.

makeorbrake

Deleted User wrote: »

There's no point talking about charges that don't exist now anyway.

I guess so (but they didn't scrap them- just postpone them).

yqtwqxqm

Deleted User wrote: »

There's no point talking about charges that don't exist now anyway.

But a lot of people saw the outrageous charges that the ESB tried their best to bring in and said to themselves "better wait to get an EV til I see if im going to be ridden big time"

They are still waiting to see. And not driving an EV now.

I think most people that actually do want an EV and do their research realise they will charge at home for most of their driving needs, people are not waiting for news about any charger fees they're much more concerned about range and what will come in 2018, why buy a 120-150 Km range car today if in just 1.5 years you can buy an EV with 300-350 kms range ? that's what the majority of the non EV enthusiast cares about. Free charger usage hasn't exactly encouraged mass transition to EV in the last 5 years and with 300-350 km range trips to the public charging network will be rare.

The other problem is a severe lack of choice of EV makes and models. Not everyone wants a small hatch.

makeorbrake

Deleted User wrote: »

I think most people that actually do want an EV and do their research realise they will charge at home for most of their driving needs, people are not waiting for news about any charger fees they're much more concerned about range and what will come in 2018

I agree largely albeit I first started to look at going the EV route more seriously back around the time they announced this pricing plan (only later to put it on hold). I was reaching the conclusion that EV might actually work for my circumstances but that announcement (not in isolation but it was definitely a factor) did cap it off for me - and left me with the conclusion that there was no point looking at it again until I'd driven my current vehicle into the ground.

It's only when I heard that work had installed charging points that swayed me back towards making the switch.

I agree it's not a primary factor but it certainly doesn't help. The two biggest concerns are ..

1. Range
&
2. Depreciation (who wants to invest in an asset that potentially could have no more than scrap value tomorrow).

Other concerns..
- Integrity of the Public network - from what I understand, ESB don't update their C.P. map in real time.


When they do come to implement, I hope they will have revised their offering and gone with pay per charge. That's the equitable model to follow.

BoatMad

Personally , the gov needs to step in and promise 5 years free FCP or until there are 10,000 EVs on the road,

The FCP network is not there to support current EV usage it's really there for s significantly bigger user base

Soarer

So a 2011 gen 1 with the two sockets at the front can use the FCPs and get to 80% of full in half an hour or whatever?

Also, at what sort of mileage on a gen 1 could you expect to start losing cells? I'm looking at one at the minute with a full service history. Well, it's full up to last July. Needs a service now with 12k kms extra on the clock since the last service.
I got sent a pdf of the service history....
The last battery status showed 12 blocks.
Everything got 5 stars and "Your score is very high and good for your battery".

Would've thought that there'd be at least one block gone after 60k+ miles?

yqtwqxqm

I wouldnt put much stock in the battery report.
Bit of a gimmick. Ive never heard of a bad one.
Its like getting a reference from your parents

Soarer

yqtwqxqm wrote: »

I wouldnt put much stock in the battery report.
Bit of a gimmick. Ive never heard of a bad one.
Its like getting a reference from your parents

So LeafSpy is the only sure way to find out?

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

Personally , the gov needs to step in and promise 5 years free FCP or until there are 10,000 EVs on the road,

The FCP network is not there to support current EV usage it's really there for s significantly bigger user base

What could help persuade the Government to subsidise the infrastructure and to completely eliminate VRT on electrics would be to explain to them the Billions leaving the economy in imported fuel every year and that electric cars have real potential to keep a lot of that money in the country by the fact that electric cars are about 80% more efficient needing far less fuel and any wind power can be used to charge electric cars.

The money lost on subsidising the infrastructure and eliminating VRT would probably be gained back much more by the money saved on importing a lot more energy.

Marcusm

Deleted User wrote: »

Well to be honest we're sending Billions of Euro's out of the Country to foreign energy companies every year in imported energy and electric cars have huge potential to greatly reduce the amount of energy imported and we're adding more renewables to the grid yearly too. So it could very well be the case where the money saved on importing foreign energy vastly out weighs any losses from VRT + we got emissions targets to meet.

While I applaud your sentiments, I think it's important to recognise that renewables don't necessarily mean that money is not sent out of the country. For wind/solar, the greatest cost is equipment and none of that is designed/manufactured in Ireland. For the cheat renewables such as biomass, we are importing large amounts of that, for example the importation of North American wood to burn in the forthcoming Mayo "renewables" plant.

Personally, my interest in EVs is the reduction in tailpipe emissions (plus the likely torque benefits).

Soarer

Soarer wrote: »

So a 2011 gen 1 with the two sockets at the front can use the FCPs and get to 80% of full in half an hour or whatever?

Also, at what sort of mileage on a gen 1 could you expect to start losing cells? I'm looking at one at the minute with a full service history. Well, it's full up to last July. Needs a service now with 12k kms extra on the clock since the last service.
I got sent a pdf of the service history....
The last battery status showed 12 blocks.
Everything got 5 stars and "Your score is very high and good for your battery".

Would've thought that there'd be at least one block gone after 60k+ miles?

The Gen I was a lot more sensitive to heat and being fast charged a lot. And probably has less cycling capability than the current 24 Kwh if the truth were known. So If you can then pick a Gen 1.5 it would be worth it.

Gen I first bar can be lost at 60 K to 70K Kms and the Gen 1.5 usually still has the first bar after 160,000 kms but could be in the region of 5-10% actual loss, the first bar disappears after about a 15% loss in capacity and Leafspy is probably the only way you will know for sure. More data is needed on the MK 1.5 battery but current indications are that it's a lot more robust.

Leaf spy data on the current Gen 1.5 battery can vary by up to 5% +-

The battery report tells you things like how long the battery is sitting at a high state of charge without being used and the amount of fast charges and also the amount of times the the car is charged again above 80% which is adds stresses to the battery and is in the manual in the battery section and can effect warranty claims.

Marcusm

Marcusm wrote: »

While I applaud your sentiments, I think it's important to recognise that renewables don't necessarily mean that money is not sent out of the country. For wind/solar, the greatest cost is equipment and none of that is designed/manufactured in Ireland. For the cheat renewables such as biomass, we are importing large amounts of that, for example the importation of North American wood to burn in the forthcoming Mayo "renewables" plant.

Personally, my interest in EVs is the reduction in tailpipe emissions (plus the likely torque benefits).

ll the above is true but electric cars are much more efficient and this really does mean a hell of a lot less energy is needed to move an EV compared to ICE meaning much less imported energy.

There are a lot of Jobs created in the installation and commissioning and maintenance of wind turbines granted not all of them are Irish jobs but it;s still employment that would otherwise not exist.

When wind turbines are installed then we don't have to import the energy for the life time of their operation.