Hibernia- What subjects can I register? Quick Question!

theglobe

I have a commerce degree from UCC. It looks like at the moment based on the subjects I chose I would only be able to register as a business teacher and not as an economics or accounting teacher( at least with the teaching council)

My plan is to qualify in maths as I do the hibernia and have 2 subjects recognisable to the teaching council when i complete the course.

So my question is will Hibernia allow me do one of economics or accounting during the course as long as they're happy I have a decent grasp of it? I won't be registering these with the teaching council at all at when I complete the course.

Anyone have experience of a similar situation?

Thanks. I cant ring til Tuesday!

byhookorbycrook

I'd wait until Tues, to be honest, Hibernia seem to have their own rules.

shenanagans

You need 60 credits in a subject to teach it. Did you specialise in any subject during your commerce degree? There's new regulations coming in from Jan 2017 stating that you need to have studied the Methodologies of ...(Business, Economics..etc) in order to teach that subject. So you need to do the Methodologies of each of your subjects to pass the teaching council requirements. I don't know if this requirement is for all subjects but it definitely affects many subjects.

theglobe

shenanagans wrote: »

You need 60 credits in a subject to teach it. Did you specialise in any subject during your commerce degree? There's new regulations coming in from Jan 2017 stating that you need to have studied the Methodologies of ...(Business, Economics..etc) in order to teach that subject. So you need to do the Methodologies of each of your subjects to pass the teaching council requirements. I don't know if this requirement is for all subjects but it definitely affects many subjects.

I would have majored in Management & Marketing so I'm sure I qualify for business. I don't qualify for economics and accounting. Does this make sense?

theglobe

Do masters studies count to the teaching council at all? They only seem to be asking about my undergrand in the deceleration form.

shenanagans

Yes that makes sense. You'll have Business & Business Studies for sure but will probably come up short of the 60 credits in Ec/Acc. If you do the Hibernia course make sure you do the methodologies of all the subjects if you plan to add credits in future. What Maths qualification are you doing? Does it involve education?

theglobe

shenanagans wrote: »

Yes that makes sense. You'll have Business & Business Studies for sure but will probably come up short of the 60 credits in Ec/Acc. If you do the Hibernia course make sure you do the methodologies of all the subjects if you plan to add credits in future. What Maths qualification are you doing? Does it involve education?

What do you mean by the methodologies of all subjects in this case? Gonna do the ones they tell me to do on Open University!

shenanagans

Lets say you're going to teach Maths, then one of the modules you'll do as part of any teaching course would be 'Methodologies of teaching Maths', you'll be in with all the other future maths teachers. If you want to teach Business in future you should attend that 'Methodologies of teaching Business'. It's a module you'll have to complete to teach most subject.

mirrorwall14

In Hibernia you will do TSM which is the teaching subject mastery module for each of your subjects. TM is the teaching methodologies module

theglobe

Ah okay. I suppose the next question is when applying for Hibernia should I say my subjects are Business and Economics or Accounting, or whether to try and register Business and Maths.

A. I could say I have a decent grasp of Economics or Accounting and justify it that way. This is true anyway.

B. Or I could say that I'm doing Maths on The Open University so Id like to include it as one of my subjects for the Hibernia.

A would probably be the safer route to ensure I am accepted to the course while B would probably be more valuable overall but may jeopardize my acceptance to the course.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

evolving_doors

theglobe wrote: »

Ah okay. I suppose the next question is when applying for Hibernia should I say my subjects are Business and Economics or Accounting, or whether to try and register Business and Maths.

A. I could say I have a decent grasp of Economics or Accounting and justify it that way. This is true anyway.

B. Or I could say that I'm doing Maths on The Open University so Id like to include it as one of my subjects for the Hibernia.

A would probably be the safer route to ensure I am accepted to the course while B would probably be more valuable overall but may jeopardize my acceptance to the course.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Just ring em up and make a general enquiry

mtoutlemonde

theglobe wrote: »

Ah okay. I suppose the next question is when applying for Hibernia should I say my subjects are Business and Economics or Accounting, or whether to try and register Business and Maths.

A. I could say I have a decent grasp of Economics or Accounting and justify it that way. This is true anyway.

B. Or I could say that I'm doing Maths on The Open University so Id like to include it as one of my subjects for the Hibernia.

A would probably be the safer route to ensure I am accepted to the course while B would probably be more valuable overall but may jeopardize my acceptance to the course.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Check your degree on the list of recognised subjects from the Teaching Council. They are the deciding body. Hibernia may let you study the other methodologies but I think you can only do two subjects. Just be aware that there is an over supply of business teachers before you do Hibernia.

HanaleiJ5N

First off, did my PDE through Hibernia, and I would strongly recommend going elsewhere, I don't believe they're fit for purpose for a multitude of reasons, but that's not what this thread is about so I won't go into the painstaking detail.

My degree qualifications were recognised by Teaching Council to teach Mathematics and Computer Studies. But Computer Studies is not on Hibernia's list.

I guarantee you however, they will accommodate your second subject from their list if there is any little justification at all. I did Physics as a module in 1st year of my degree (and not in 2nd, 3rd or 4th year) and they assigned that as my second subject accordingly.

For my TP (or SEPP) hours I taught a small amount of leaving cert Physics and Junior Cert science restricted only to the Physics sections of the JC science syllabus.

You won't really be assessed in any great depth on your second subject by Hibernia, you'll have a few on site sessions and online tutorials on the subjects but there were no assignments. (Which I found odd as you think it would be in everyone's best interests that the college assess the student's ability to teach and knowledge of the second subject) But naturally enough (as you've said) you'll do your own work on the second subject to be able to teach it.

Best of luck, hopefully they've gotten their act together since I did the course (a few years back now), maybe the issues I (and many of my fellow cohort) went through were nothing more than growing pains by a relatively new course to the college and they were just finding their feet with a few teething problems along the way.

Also, do whatever you can to get a 1st class honours. I know for a fact now that there is still a deal of scepticism towards online degrees amongst principals, boards of management and basically anyone involved in hiring and firing.

evolving_doors

HanaleiJ5N wrote: »

First off, did my PDE through Hibernia, and I would strongly recommend going elsewhere, I don't believe they're fit for purpose for a multitude of reasons, but that's not what this thread is about so I won't go into the painstaking detail.

My degree qualifications were recognised by Teaching Council to teach Mathematics and Computer Studies. But Computer Studies is not on Hibernia's list.

I guarantee you however, they will accommodate your second subject from their list if there is any little justification at all. I did Physics as a module in 1st year of my degree (and not in 2nd, 3rd or 4th year) and they assigned that as my second subject accordingly.

This has being going on in quite a few Universities for donkey's years. They let you in on your primary subject and the other subject was you own lookout.. i.e. When they assigned it did you refuse?

I think they should make it very clear though that it's up to you to seek approval from the TC about your subjects post degree graduation, so you know what's what when you come out. There's nothing unusual about teachers adding more modules to get registration in a subject after the PME/PGDE/HDip.

There was a few threads here a while ago from a teacher who did go back to add modules in physics to get registration. So you might still be able to explore that route if you're interested.

theglobe

The following pathway is only for those who have at least 10 ECTS of first year Mathematics in your undergraduate degree

If a person has studied Maths to first year degree level (first year Maths may be defined as follows, “the study of one or more of the following areas as the core focus in one or more first year module(s) and to the extent of at least 10 ECTS – Analysis, Algebra, Geometry, Probability & Statistics.”), they would need to complete the following four



Open University Modules to bring you up to the standard required for teaching -



Essential Maths 1 (MST124)

Essential Maths 2 (MST125)

Introducing Statistics (M140)

Pure Mathematics (M208)



Alternatively you could complete a Higher Diploma in Maths at one of the NUI’s.


Just on the phone to the teaching council and it looks like I can't do the open uni route:(

She seems to think, but wouldn't confirm, that my 2 first year modules of Introductory Mathematics for Business I and Introduction to Business Statistics wouldn't suffice.

I asked if there was the possibility of me completing a first year 10 credit module only in a university and she said it would probably be fine, but again wouldn't confirm anything. Is this even possible?

HanaleiJ5N

Gebgbegb wrote: »

This has being going on in quite a few Universities for donkey's years. They let you in on your primary subject and the other subject was you own lookout.. i.e. When they assigned it did you refuse?

I think they should make it very clear though that it's up to you to seek approval from the TC about your subjects post degree graduation, so you know what's what when you come out. There's nothing unusual about teachers adding more modules to get registration in a subject after the PME/PGDE/HDip.

There was a few threads here a while ago from a teacher who did go back to add modules in physics to get registration. So you might still be able to explore that route if you're interested.

Why would I? Wasn't saying I had a problem with it, was only assuring the O.P. that they needn't worry about the second subject. The college almost definitely will accommodate it.

evolving_doors

HanaleiJ5N wrote: »

Why would I? Wasn't saying I had a problem with it, was only assuring the O.P. that they needn't worry about the second subject. The college almost definitely will accommodate it.

Ok apologies, I thought you are a bit annoyed that they let you take the second subject without the 'OK' from the TC. There were a few posters (probably a few years ago now) that assumed they would be registered with their PME subjects with the TC after doing the PME. They were annoyed the colleges didn't inform them before doing the course.

evolving_doors

theglobe wrote: »

The following pathway is only for those who have at least 10 ECTS of first year Mathematics in your undergraduate degree

If a person has studied Maths to first year degree level (first year Maths may be defined as follows, “the study of one or more of the following areas as the core focus in one or more first year module(s) and to the extent of at least 10 ECTS – Analysis, Algebra, Geometry, Probability & Statistics.”), they would need to complete the following four



Open University Modules to bring you up to the standard required for teaching -



Essential Maths 1 (MST124)

Essential Maths 2 (MST125)

Introducing Statistics (M140)

Pure Mathematics (M208)



Alternatively you could complete a Higher Diploma in Maths at one of the NUI’s.


Just on the phone to the teaching council and it looks like I can't do the open uni route:(

She seems to think, but wouldn't confirm, that my 2 first year modules of Introductory Mathematics for Business I and Introduction to Business Statistics wouldn't suffice.

I asked if there was the possibility of me completing a first year 10 credit module only in a university and she said it would probably be fine, but again wouldn't confirm anything. Is this even possible?

I think they they won't confirm anything over the phone until you apply to have the maths modules on you course assessed by the TC (which costs money!).

It's a bit of a convoluted path. It seems logical to me alright, but they seem a bit iffy because no one has done it before (just sitting 1st yr maths with the specific intention of getting modules to add on to more external modules).

After doing all of those modules would you not be better off just going for the Ordinary Level degree with the OU at your own faster pace! At least then you'd have a bona fide degree for your CV rather than a heap of modules!
Check out the cost of OU though.
If you are going to do the PME then you might be able to space out the OU maths modules but would take a lot of planning.. like you'll have quiet periods on the PME but it might'nt necessairly coincide with the exam/assignment days for OU!

Is the Part Time Maths degree option with DIT out of the question!

theglobe

Gebgbegb wrote: »

I think they they won't confirm anything over the phone until you apply to have the maths modules on you course assessed by the TC (which costs money!).

It's a bit of a convoluted path. It seems logical to me alright, but they seem a bit iffy because no one has done it before (just sitting 1st yr maths with the specific intention of getting modules to add on to more external modules).

After doing all of those modules would you not be better off just going for the Ordinary Level degree with the OU at your own faster pace! At least then you'd have a bona fide degree for your CV rather than a heap of modules!
Check out the cost of OU though.
If you are going to do the PME then you might be able to space out the OU maths modules but would take a lot of planning.. like you'll have quiet periods on the PME but it might'nt necessairly coincide with the exam/assignment days for OU!

Is the Part Time Maths degree option with DIT out of the question!

I'm in Cork so I don't see how I would work the DIT maths degree! I don't think an ordinary level degree at the open university would qualify me with the teaching council either, but maybe it would? My aim would be purely to do enough to qualify it with the teaching council, but the road is looking very complicated for me.

I'm not sure it would be worth getting my 2 modules assessed really. It seems pretty clear cut that they wouldn't qualify.


Edit: And according to what she said on the phone, there's no real way of confirming whether my 2 commerce modules qualify. I would just do the OU modules and send in the declaration then! But I guess I could fill out the declaration form with the 2 modules only and find out that way?


If you have not studied a curricular subject at undergraduate degree level, you can complete postgraduate studies in that curricular area e.g. Masters, Higher Diploma, Postgraduate Diploma, PHD carrying at least 60 ECTS credits and complete an additional 10 ECTS credits at undergraduate degree level.

Seems like I could do an undergraduate module on it's own, but again I have no clear info on how it would all work.

Looks like the below would be my best bet, assuming the teaching council allows it.

https://www.ucc.ie/en/study/undergrad/flexioptions/

evolving_doors

theglobe wrote: »

I'm in Cork so I don't see how I would work the DIT maths degree! I don't think an ordinary level degree at the open university would qualify me with the teaching council either, but maybe it would? My aim would be purely to do enough to qualify it with the teaching council, but the road is looking very complicated for me.

I'm not sure it would be worth getting my 2 modules assessed really. It seems pretty clear cut that they wouldn't qualify.


Edit: And according to what she said on the phone, there's no real way of confirming whether my 2 commerce modules qualify. I would just do the OU modules and send in the declaration then! But I guess I could fill out the declaration form with the 2 modules only and find out that way?


If you have not studied a curricular subject at undergraduate degree level, you can complete postgraduate studies in that curricular area e.g. Masters, Higher Diploma, Postgraduate Diploma, PHD carrying at least 60 ECTS credits and complete an additional 10 ECTS credits at undergraduate degree level.

Seems like I could do an undergraduate module on it's own, but again I have no clear info on how it would all work.

Looks like the below would be my best bet, assuming the teaching council allows it.

https://www.ucc.ie/en/study/undergrad/flexioptions/

Sorry, forgot you were in Cork. I know a friend of a friend who did some maths modules in UcC to satisfy the Tc, although he had a computer science degree with a good bit of maths in it.

The degree required is to ordinary level, (used to be anyhow!) So if you think of your typical 3yr arts student their 2final subject wouldn't be to honours level. So I wouldn't go thinking I'd have to do a full 4 yr maths degree if I were you.
Maybe have a talk to UcC about it!

theglobe

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Sorry, forgot you were in Cork. I know a friend of a friend who did some maths modules in UcC to satisfy the Tc, although he had a computer science degree with a good bit of maths in it.

The degree required is to ordinary level, (used to be anyhow!) So if you think of your typical 3yr arts student their 2final subject wouldn't be to honours level. So I wouldn't go thinking I'd have to do a full 4 yr maths degree if I were you.
Maybe have a talk to UcC about it!

Thanks for the info. I'll ring them tomorrow. I'd only be looking to do one 10 credit module within a degree to hopefully satisfy the undergrad requirement.

r93kaey5p2izun

I added Maths through the OU and I had no credits from my degree. The TC specified three modules I had to do (MST121, MS221 and M208) plus any Level 3 module worth at least 10 ECTS credits. I know the required modules have changed a bit but once I had enough credits there was no problem over not having credits from my degree . Those modules added up to 75 credits (150 OU credits) so more than enough.

It looks like MST124 is the new MST121 and MST125 is the new MS221, M208 is still the same and they have now included a stats module. But that will still add up to more than enough credits. Surprised there's no requirement for a Level 3 module though as subject requirements state at least 10 credits needed at level 3 or above.

I recommend the OU for being well laid out, well run and fairly flexible but it is very expensive so definitely consider alternatives here.

evolving_doors

Corinne Old Pedicure wrote: »

I added Maths through the OU and I had no credits from my degree. The OU specified three modules I had to do (MST121, MS221 and M208) plus any Level 3 module worth at least 10 ECTS credits. I know the required modules have changed a bit but once I had enough credits there was no problem over not having credits from my degree . Those modules added up to 75 credits (150 OU credits) so more than enough.

It looks like MST124 is the new MST121 and MST125 is the new MS221, M208 is still the same and they have now included a stats module. But that will still add up to more than enough credits. Surprised there's no requirement for a Level 3 module though as subject requirements state at least 10 credits needed at level 3 or above.

I recommend the OU for being well laid out, well run and fairly flexible but it is very expensive so definitely consider alternatives here.

What type of timescale did you do that in A?

Is that part above in bold coming from the Teaching Council?

r93kaey5p2izun

Gebgbegb wrote: »

What type of timescale did you do that in A?

Is that part above in bold coming from the Teaching Council?

It took me 3 years working full time - Sept of year 1 to June of year 3. The courses generally don't run over the summer (there were exceptions) so long holidays not of much benefit and I was restricted a bit by when modules started - one only started in January so I had to wait after end of previous module in October to start again. At the time MST121 and MS221 overlapped which was grand. M208 is heavy going though so I was glad that I didn't do another module alongside - though it certainly could be done to speed things up. The level 3 module I did was ok but I was still kept busy!

The requirement re level 3 credits is from the TC. See page 2 part 1(c) of this document:

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&rct=j&q=teaching%20council%20registration%20maths&ved=0ahUKEwichdG0mJfNAhUjLMAKHVk_AUQQFgglMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.teachingcouncil.ie%2Fen%2F_fileupload%2FSubject-Declaration-Forms-Updated-December%2FMathematics-Form-REVISED-.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEf3CRuIKPT6B8S3YFI9sQHCJ2kag

theglobe

Corinne Old Pedicure wrote: »

I added Maths through the OU and I had no credits from my degree. The TC specified three modules I had to do (MST121, MS221 and M208) plus any Level 3 module worth at least 10 ECTS credits. I know the required modules have changed a bit but once I had enough credits there was no problem over not having credits from my degree . Those modules added up to 75 credits (150 OU credits) so more than enough.

It looks like MST124 is the new MST121 and MST125 is the new MS221, M208 is still the same and they have now included a stats module. But that will still add up to more than enough credits. Surprised there's no requirement for a Level 3 module though as subject requirements state at least 10 credits needed at level 3 or above.

I recommend the OU for being well laid out, well run and fairly flexible but it is very expensive so definitely consider alternatives here.

Well it looks to me like there's no requirement because they now insist on having it in an undergrad no?

What level 3 module did you do?

It looks to me like they require a level 3 in what you linked(and that's the official documentation!) but the info I was given gives no indication that it's required.

Edit: Sorry I get you now. I would really need to get something in writing to confirm what is required.

theglobe

Applicants must also have completed a programme of post-primary initial teacher education (age
range 12-18 years) carrying a minimum of 120 ECTS credits (or equivalent)7
The programme
should include a module(s) on the teaching of Mathematics carrying a minimum of 5 ECTS credits
(or equivalent)

Is there an alternative to the part in bold about how the programme should include a module on the teaching of Maths? I just rang Hibernia and they seemed to suggest that I may be risking acceptance to the course if I choose maths as my second subject at my current level.

So now I'm thinking of registering Business and Economics or Accounting but I'm wondering if this will make the Maths part more difficult again.

Even though I know HanaleiJ5N thinks it wouldn't cause an issue.

r93kaey5p2izun

I don't know how Hibernia works or how flexible they are. But in Maynooth you could take extra subject methodology modules, over and above your two qualified subjects. These extra modules did not count towards the final result but we were issued with a supplementary results cert for them.

Regarding my Level 3 maths module with the OU, I did MT365 Graphs, Networks and Design.

*Angel*

HanaleiJ5N wrote: »

I guarantee you however, they will accommodate your second subject from their list if there is any little justification at all. I did Physics as a module in 1st year of my degree (and not in 2nd, 3rd or 4th year) and they assigned that as my second subject accordingly.

For my TP (or SEPP) hours I taught a small amount of leaving cert Physics and Junior Cert science restricted only to the Physics sections of the JC science syllabus.

You won't really be assessed in any great depth on your second subject by Hibernia, you'll have a few on site sessions and online tutorials on the subjects but there were no assignments. (Which I found odd as you think it would be in everyone's best interests that the college assess the student's ability to teach and knowledge of the second subject) But naturally enough (as you've said) you'll do your own work on the second subject to be able to teach it.

From a current student of Hibernia perspective....

The course seems to be evolving as it goes on. I started last September so currently about half way through the course.

I agree with the above in that they don't care about if you are TC registration ready with your second subject. It might even be that case with your first subject but you do have to fill out the TC reg form to sign up initially for one subject. In my case Maths first subject but unfortunately not enough credits to register for Physics but signed it up as my second anyway.

They have now allocated equal credits to both subjects in terms of presentations, assignments, onsite days etc. Priority is typically given to your first subject, as in the assignment or presentation occurs initially in your first subject and then carry out a similar version for your second.

Regarding teaching placements, in your 1st placement the split is 70/30 to 1st Subject/2nd Subject. For 2nd and 3rd placements it is equal. Apparently the inspection for the 2nd placement is in your 2nd subject also but I can't yet confirm.

Hope that helps in some way!