Athlone Town FC - Time to call it a day?

54and56

Sad to hear the perennial financial and club administration problems continue - http://www.westmeathindependent.ie/news/roundup/articles/2016/06/03/4121034-athlone-town-match-off-as-players-refuse-to-travel/

1887 -> 2016. If this does turn out to be the death knell for ATFC it's not been a bad run. Two LOI championships in the early 1980's, some memorable European games (most notably AC Milan in 1975) and the FAI cup in 1924.

I recall as a kid the excitement of being brought to games in St Mels park (including the AC Milan match!) by my Dad and the odd away trip to Limerick or Dublin. I also vividly recall people streaming from all parts of the town with their blue and black scarves through Sarsfield Square to St Mels park. You had to negotiate graffiti covered laneways and skirt round big puddles as you queued up to get through the turnstiles but it felt great. There was excitement and a great sense of anticipation as kick off approached. I recall the time Linfield came to St Mels park and there was almost a riot and the excitement of when Derry joined the LOI and were bringing huge travelling support with them.

Sadly all those great times are long long ago. I left Athlone in the late 80's and have never lived there since. I sometimes go to see them when they play in Dublin but that's my only connection to them now. I talk to family who still support them (i.e. actually go to matches) but they have become very disillusioned and no longer go to every game.

Looking from afar but filtering info I get from family and friends in Athlone and still close to the club it seems a number of things have contributed to the club finding itself in the latest predicament but the absolute bottom line is that there is no longer a sufficient fan base or potential demand in the Athlone area for a LOI soccer team which can be commercially viable on a stand alone basis i.e. it can be run without the need for constant subsidies from the FAI or being baled out again and again.

Over the years the following seem to have impacted negatively on the demand/support for ATFC:-

- The # of soldiers and their families in the Athlone area has declined - these were always a strong cohort of the ATFC fan base.

- ATFC are competing with other sports (both GAA and Rugby have really taken off in Athlone over the last 2-3 decades) and the availability of UK premier league and European soccer on TV not only makes it easier to watch soccer but it then sets a very high bar for what people expect to see when they go to a game and going to watch ATFC just doesn't live up to that.

- I recall after the success of winning the LOI twice in the early 1980's and the whole AC Milan adventure ATFC spent a pile of money buying a new clubhouse and that, for me anyway, was the beginning of the slippery slope. The clubhouse became a glorified late drinking club, lost a pile of money and was shut down. It was eventually demolished. Since then there's been the move from St Mel's park to Lissywollen which is a fine stadium but the club can't attract the gate receipts and sponsorship to run a commercially viable club. They are forever incurring deficits and having to be baled out one way or another. It's simply not sustainable any more.

- There doesn't seem to be any formal connection or affinity between ATFC and the local soccer clubs such as Willow Park FC and St Peters FC. People who play for or support Willow Park and St Peters tend not to support ATFC.

- Local businesses don't seem to view ATFC as a good marketing/PR opportunity. Why would any business want to spend a few thousand Euro advertising to a couple of hundred people every week? Why would any business want to be associated with such a poorly administered club when there are other sports or social activities they can spend/donate their money to which will give them a far greater audience and/or positive PR. Clubs have to offer something compelling for businesses to part with their hard earned cash and ATFC seem to do a very poor job relative to the other sports clubs in the area.

Clubs, regardless of their heritage, don't have a divine right to exist. Unless the FAI are going to start subsidising clubs (which I personally wouldn't agree with) who don't have sufficient paying support to make them viable have to be allowed re-organise themselves and enter the Leinster Senior League or similar or be allowed to die all together. After all, it wouldn't be the first time ATFC left and later re-joined the LOI. They first played in the LOI from 1922 to 1928 but then left and didn't rejoin again until 1969. In the interim they survived so leaving the LOI isn't necessarily the end of the world for the club. It might provide the club with the time and space it needs to redefine itself, reorganise it's ownership and financial management and re-emerge a few years down the line as a leaner more locally focused club with a solid support base capable of sustaining another stint in the LOI.

There will be a lot of wringing of hands and pointing of fingers if the club does drop out of the LOI many of the people complaining loudest will be armchair supporters who haven't been to any matches in years.

What do people think? Should ATFC remain in the LOI via an FAI bale out or some sort of local benevolent bale out or accept they don't have enough of a sustainable support base locally to maintain a LOI club?

applehunter

If they had their budget right before the start of the season and they wouldn't be in this mess.

dan1895

How did they get through the licensing process?

Harry Palmr

The side Athlone Town were due to play - Waterford FC United are 80k in debt. Hand to mouth, week by week.

CSF

It's not time for Athlone to call it a day, if they can get themselves out of this mess its time for them to cut their cloth accordingly and stop trying to stretch so much in terms of their budget. Look at Cabinteely, not trying to compete with other teams bidding for players, just building their squad as best they can and hoping to improve over time. Worked for Wexford.

LuckyLloyd

Exactly - you should never go bust halfway through a season. You put the best side together you can within the budget available and if that's a fully amateur side so be it. The lack of responsibility / discipline involved every time a LOI side gets into this kind of situation is stunning tbh. No sympathy.

CSF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Exactly - you should never go bust halfway through a season. You put the best side together you can within the budget available and if that's a fully amateur side so be it. The lack of responsibility / discipline involved every time a LOI side gets into this kind of situation is stunning tbh. No sympathy.

I have sympathy for the people at the club who would have thought just the same last year. It only takes one or two people with a bit of power to completely f*ck things up.

gimmick

Are people really blaming Athlone for being granted a license?

The licensing committee will accept any ol crap it seems.

From what I believe their board are a shower of little hitlers and have alienated the entire town.

Darkglasses

Is it true that we are talking about 25 to 30 euro per player expenses though? I imagine the fan boycott hit them hard.

CSF

Darkglasses wrote: »

Is it true that we are talking about 25 to 30 euro per player expenses though? I imagine the fan boycott hit them hard.

I think they've scaled it back this year but I doubt the likes of Matthews, Cassidy, Chindea and Purdy are there for that.

Darkglasses

CSF wrote: »

I think they've scaled it back this year but I doubt the likes of Matthews, Cassidy, Chindea and Purdy are there for that.

That was the word on Twitter but I find it very hard to believe. Hardly worth jeopardising your club's existence for 30 euro.

Masala

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Sad to hear the perennial financial and club administration problems continue - http://www.westmeathindependent.ie/news/roundup/articles/2016/06/03/4121034-athlone-town-match-off-as-players-refuse-to-travel/

1887 -> 2016. If this does turn out to be the death knell for ATFC it's not been a bad run. Two LOI championships in the early 1980's, some memorable European games (most notably AC Milan in 1975) and the FAI cup in 1924.

I recall as a kid the excitement of being brought to games in St Mels park (including the AC Milan match!) by my Dad and the odd away trip to Limerick or Dublin. I also vividly recall people streaming from all parts of the town with their blue and black scarves through Sarsfield Square to St Mels park. You had to negotiate graffiti covered laneways and skirt round big puddles as you queued up to get through the turnstiles but it felt great. There was excitement and a great sense of anticipation as kick off approached. I recall the time Linfield came to St Mels park and there was almost a riot and the excitement of when Derry joined the LOI and were bringing huge travelling support with them.

Sadly all those great times are long long ago. I left Athlone in the late 80's and have never lived there since. I sometimes go to see them when they play in Dublin but that's my only connection to them now. I talk to family who still support them (i.e. actually go to matches) but they have become very disillusioned and no longer go to every game.

Looking from afar but filtering info I get from family and friends in Athlone and still close to the club it seems a number of things have contributed to the club finding itself in the latest predicament but the absolute bottom line is that there is no longer a sufficient fan base or potential demand in the Athlone area for a LOI soccer team which can be commercially viable on a stand alone basis i.e. it can be run without the need for constant subsidies from the FAI or being baled out again and again.

Over the years the following seem to have impacted negatively on the demand/support for ATFC:-

- The # of soldiers and their families in the Athlone area has declined - these were always a strong cohort of the ATFC fan base.

- ATFC are competing with other sports (both GAA and Rugby have really taken off in Athlone over the last 2-3 decades) and the availability of UK premier league and European soccer on TV not only makes it easier to watch soccer but it then sets a very high bar for what people expect to see when they go to a game and going to watch ATFC just doesn't live up to that.

- I recall after the success of winning the LOI twice in the early 1980's and the whole AC Milan adventure ATFC spent a pile of money buying a new clubhouse and that, for me anyway, was the beginning of the slippery slope. The clubhouse became a glorified late drinking club, lost a pile of money and was shut down. It was eventually demolished. Since then there's been the move from St Mel's park to Lissywollen which is a fine stadium but the club can't attract the gate receipts and sponsorship to run a commercially viable club. They are forever incurring deficits and having to be baled out one way or another. It's simply not sustainable any more.

- There doesn't seem to be any formal connection or affinity between ATFC and the local soccer clubs such as Willow Park FC and St Peters FC. People who play for or support Willow Park and St Peters tend not to support ATFC.

- Local businesses don't seem to view ATFC as a good marketing/PR opportunity. Why would any business want to spend a few thousand Euro advertising to a couple of hundred people every week? Why would any business want to be associated with such a poorly administered club when there are other sports or social activities they can spend/donate their money to which will give them a far greater audience and/or positive PR. Clubs have to offer something compelling for businesses to part with their hard earned cash and ATFC seem to do a very poor job relative to the other sports clubs in the area.

Clubs, regardless of their heritage, don't have a divine right to exist. Unless the FAI are going to start subsidising clubs (which I personally wouldn't agree with) who don't have sufficient paying support to make them viable have to be allowed re-organise themselves and enter the Leinster Senior League or similar or be allowed to die all together. After all, it wouldn't be the first time ATFC left and later re-joined the LOI. They first played in the LOI from 1922 to 1928 but then left and didn't rejoin again until 1969. In the interim they survived so leaving the LOI isn't necessarily the end of the world for the club. It might provide the club with the time and space it needs to redefine itself, reorganise it's ownership and financial management and re-emerge a few years down the line as a leaner more locally focused club with a solid support base capable of sustaining another stint in the LOI.

There will be a lot of wringing of hands and pointing of fingers if the club does drop out of the LOI many of the people complaining loudest will be armchair supporters who haven't been to any matches in years.

What do people think? Should ATFC remain in the LOI via an FAI bale out or some sort of local benevolent bale out or accept they don't have enough of a sustainable support base locally to maintain a LOI club?

I remember the AC Milan games... Noel Larkin was the main man. I still have a scarf thrown by Turlock o'connor off the stage on the night of the celebrations. Now it could be a young WANs scarf from the Bower as tgey had the same colours!!

Tell u what... That railway line hid many a scrote and their stone throwing.

Good to see St Mels street finally destroyed!!! scary place to walk thru them times

But... Would be gutted to see the Club go under. Sure if the FAI could sent down an international to them... It could set them up nicely financially. What is Delaney and Co saying about it???

SantryRed

The FAI Don't care. Sanctioned a game between Inter and Celtic in Thomond on a Saturday that Limerick are supposed to play. They're such hypocrites at this stage it's unbelievable.

adox

Still haven't paid some of their players wages from last season.

You would think its unsustainable.

KevIRL

The sad thing is the game went ahead last night in the RSC without Athlone and finished 0-0.

54and56

adox wrote: »

Still haven't paid some of their players wages from last season.

How can any club get a licence to start a new season unless the FAI have secured independent confirmation that there are no outstanding player payments from the previous season?

Also, paper doesn't refuse ink. In the business I'm in I see aspirational business plans all the time and in every single case the future always looks much brighter than the immediate past. What sort of sensitivity testing is undertaken to validate each clubs business plan prior to being given a licence in particular their assumptions around gate receipts and the sale of advertising etc? Does the FAI just take the assumptions underpinning business plans at face value? If they do its an act of gross negligence in my opinion.

Saint_Mel

Je_suis_Jean wrote:

How can any club get a licence to start a new season unless the FAI have secured independent confirmation that there are no outstanding player payments from the previous season?

For licencing you only need an agreement in place with players over outstanding wages.

Regarding the wages, there are only 4 players on pro forms so the 15 or so others in squad are amateur and on expenses (some of which are €20 a week)

Amateurs and coaching staff hadn't been paid in a month or so
.... allegedly....

Unfortunately there are several agendas behind the scenes that see the underage structure as a cash cow and it would suit their plans if there was no 1st team .... allegedly....

54and56

Saint_Mel wrote: »

For licencing you only need an agreement in place with players over outstanding wages.

Can't believe the unpaid platers didn't use this leverage to their advantage. If I was one of them there's no way I'd sign any agreement with a financially challenged club like ATFC which "promised" payment of my overdue wages and expenses. I'd insist on payment and put the FAI person running the license process on notice that ATFC still owed me money. I guarantee you 24 hours before the license deadline my phone would be ringing and I'd have my money.

Saint_Mel wrote: »

Regarding the wages, there are only 4 players on pro forms so the 15 or so others in squad are amateur and on expenses (some of which are €20 a week)

Amateurs and coaching staff hadn't been paid in a month or so
.... allegedly....

Doesn't sound like a lot of money but when the cupboard is bare it's bare. If you don't have any cash doesn't matter whether you want to write a cheque for €100, €1,000 or €10,000 they are all going to bounce.

Saint_Mel wrote: »

Unfortunately there are several agendas behind the scenes that see the underage structure as a cash cow and it would suit their plans if there was no 1st team .... allegedly....

Is this a reflection of the fact the club is "fan" owned? Committees all pursuing their own personal/narrow agenda, no joined up thinking and no one with the sort of ownership authority needed to make decisions based on the big picture and long term planning rather than short term agendas.

Iused2likebusts

Sad state of affairs the problems clubs like athlone face are shown in the fact that a thread on a charity soccer match has 6 times the amount of posts this thread has.

Zebra3

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Sad state of affairs the problems clubs like athlone face are shown in the fact that a thread on a charity soccer match has 6 times the amount of posts this thread has.

Irrelevant. That's been the reality of life for LOI clubs for decades now and is no excuse for how poorly run some of them are.

Darkglasses

News just released that the FAI are commissioning an independent review of the club. Better than just fining them I guess.

Iused2likebusts

Zebra3 wrote: »

Irrelevant. That's been the reality of life for LOI clubs for decades now and is no excuse for how poorly run some of them are.

I think there are a lot more distractions for your typical Irish sporting fan to attach themselves to now then there was a couple of decades ago. I'm not totally clued in on athlones situation but a few seasons back they were getting decent crowds as things were going well. When the going gets tough the crowds dissappear. I think this is a very common thing in Ireland. I'm sure it happens in other countries but not to the extent it does in Ireland. If you look at teams that go down a division in England the crowds drop but not as dramatic a fall as in Ireland.

Captain Havoc

Fining Athlone would be just a blood and stone situation. Could there be anything said for making the first division, strictly amateur or you can't spend more than last season's profits?

54and56

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Fining Athlone would be just a blood and stone situation.

Totally agree. ATFC are in the ER dept and need intervention and support so the underlying problem which put them in the ER dept is identified and addressed.

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Could there be anything said for making the first division, strictly amateur or you can't spend more than last season's profits?

I think the idea has merit but I think a one size fits all solution would be difficult to implement. Not all clubs have the same fixed costs e.g. Athlone have a 5,000 capacity stadium Vs Cabinteely using Blackrock RFC pitch in Stradbrook Road. Some clubs have a large support base even in League 1 e.g. Shelbourne and can therefore predict annual gate receipts of €X whereas "country" clubs like Athlone have a relatively small support base and can only realistically predict gate receipts of €Y for the coming season. Same goes for advertising and corporate sponsorship. Dublin clubs have a chance to snag some big local firms as sponsors/advertisers whereas country clubs have a much smaller pool of businesses to appeal to.

Personally I think the current licensing process is the right way to go but the business plans submitted by each club prior to the start of each season need to be stress tested a lot more vigorously than they currently are, in particular the assumptions underpinning gate receipts and advertising etc. In my experience (in a related field) forecast revenues can be massively aspirational and not grounded in reality.

Lovely Bloke

I think that's the first time ever on Boards that Shels have been described as having a "large fanbase".

Can I get some of what you are smoking?

54and56

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

I think that's the first time ever on Boards that Shels have been described as having a "large fanbase".

Can I get some of what you are smoking?

Don't let a bit of context get in the way of misinterpreting my comments will you? Relative to Athlone, Shels have a large fanbase. That's all I was saying.

eagle eye

I think given, from what I've read here, that there seems to be a little club inside the club that is causing a lot of problems and I think people should just walk away from the club and hope it folds.

If/When it does then start again with the right people in place and make your way back up, rebuild the fanbase and hopefully at some stage in the not too distant future we can see the Town back in the LOI.

Lovely Bloke

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Don't let a bit of context get in the way of misinterpreting my comments will you? Relative to Athlone, Shels have a large fanbase. That's all I was saying.

lighten up brother, I was taking the bleedin piss.

54and56

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

lighten up brother, I was taking the bleedin piss.

Fair enough, consider me lightened up brother.

ArnoldJRimmer

Sorry to see this happening, there are few enough clubs down the country struggling to keep afloat. I'm a Finn Harps fan and they've had their problems over the years too.

I'm going to go full on nostalgic here and say that my favourite ever Harps game took place in St Mel's Park around 1996. It was a cup replay when Harps were in the first division and Athlone doing well in the premier. We won 4-1, with Jonathan Speake scoring a cracker of a free kick. Myself and my Dad were the only two Harps fans behind the goal, and going nuts when by the time the 3rd went in. Spent a lot of time chatting to some of the locals (mainly about Minnock Jr who scored the 4th for Harps and his Dad of course) who couldn't have been nicer.

Anyway, whatever issues are there, I hope they're sorted out and soon.

Darkglasses

Darkglasses wrote: »

News just released that the FAI are commissioning an independent review of the club. Better than just fining them I guess.

http://www.sseairtricityleague.ie/news/32-premier-division/6786-news-athlone-town-issued-a-number-of-sanctions-following-nonfulfilment-of-waterford-town-fixture

Jokeshop. They've fined them.

54and56

Darkglasses wrote: »

http://www.sseairtricityleague.ie/news/32-premier-division/6786-news-athlone-town-issued-a-number-of-sanctions-following-nonfulfilment-of-waterford-town-fixture

Jokeshop. They've fined them.

It's a bit of a moral hazard issue. Don't fine them and it sets a precedent for any other clubs who don't fulfill a fixture to get off scott free.

ATFC not fulfilling the fixture took money out of Waterfords kitty so it's only fair the reverse fixture is to be held there with gate receipts going to Waterford.

It's about as little the FAI could do whilst retaining some credibility and being seen to deter other clubs from not fulfilling fixtures in the future.

Hopefully the independent review will make reommendations which if accepted and implemented by Athlone will allow the FAI to justify baling the club out and putting it on some sort of corporate probation or oversight to ensure it gets on and stays off the right administrative and commercial path going forward.

Damien360

OP. How much of the problem is location.

I was a student in Athlone RTC in the 90's and went to a few games. Most notable was a Derry City game which was brilliant as their fans were great craic.

But, even as a student getting to the ground was a bit of a headache. It's not best placed in terms of personal safety. Fine when you are in the grounds but the surrounding area was a dump.

Safety is what kept a great deal of students away from the place. We approached from the retreat park side (nobody had a car then) and every single time without fail we would have to keep an eye out for flying rocks from the houses on higher ground from our right. Maybe it has improved over the years but contrast that with longfords ground at the moment, despite being on a main road, is not a bad place to go and they seem to get great attendances judging by the volume of people I see when I drive by.

The same could be said of shamrock rovers in Tallaght stadium. Good attendances when people are safe although they do have critical mass advantage in Dublin so I'm sure that plays a major part.

You are right about local business not seeing local clubs as an opportunity. Not sure about ATFC but Kildare Town here died a death through lack of support from business. The main stand was tiny so they couldn't pack them in. The football was cat which didn't help.

Finally, price. The GAA and rugby is growing as you say, because they are accessible. Your local game will not set you back a fortune. The finals will which is fair enough. Although the FAI clubs need to survive, if you price something accordingly, people will come. You make your money on ancillary stuff on sheer numbers of people instead of at the gate. You ain't getting premier league so pitch it as a night out, same way the greyhound stadiums have done it. It's family friendly. In fairness, they got central funding. Maybe the FAI need to dig a lot deeper. Think more local and not compare themselves to the big boys across the water.

CSF

I honestly don't get how the FAI could have not fined them tbh.

Tomagotchye

How does this fine work? Because they already can't afford to pay players right? I mean will they take the money now and kick them while they're down or will wait a while until maybe they go back in the black and then taking the money like a sucker punch?

Surely they should have gotten a points reduction or something.

topmanamillion

Saint_Mel wrote: »

Unfortunately there are several agendas behind the scenes that see the underage structure as a cash cow and it would suit their plans if there was no 1st team .... allegedly....

I've seen this in a few places but it makes no sense.
The U17&U19 leagues are the place to be for the best young talent.
To have a team in them you have to have a LOI side.
The likes of Kevins in Dublin have even weighed up having a LOI side,that the people running Athlone would sabotage the senior team really doesn't add up.

flas

It all went down hill when they left st.mels....i remember playing there in many a local derby,me being from longford,all the way up to under 21 football as it was at the time,and back down to under 19's(I was good enough to play u21's really young) and that place just had a crowd,always,couple of hundred even at our games...most vivid memory is driving into a game on our team bus at 11 on a sunday morning and a car smouldering just outside the stadium having being burnt out the night before,always sticks in the memory!played one game in their new ground,horrible place,like the gas ground nit far from it,dead...

To Elland Back

Tomagotchye wrote: »

How does this fine work? Because they already can't afford to pay players right? I mean will they take the money now and kick them while they're down or will wait a while until maybe they go back in the black and then taking the money like a sucker punch?

Surely they should have gotten a points reduction or something.

The FAI take all fines out of their annual payment to clubs at the end of the season, so there is no immediate effect. A sanction of some sort had to be imposed. WYFC were fined a similar amount when a fire caused our floodlights to fail last season, leading to the game against Athlone being abandoned

54and56

Hi Damien,

Damien360 wrote: »

OP. How much of the problem is location.

I was a student in Athlone RTC in the 90's and went to a few games. Most notable was a Derry City game which was brilliant as their fans were great craic.

But, even as a student getting to the ground was a bit of a headache. It's not best placed in terms of personal safety. Fine when you are in the grounds but the surrounding area was a dump.

Safety is what kept a great deal of students away from the place. We approached from the retreat park side (nobody had a car then) and every single time without fail we would have to keep an eye out for flying rocks from the houses on higher ground from our right. Maybe it has improved over the years but contrast that with longfords ground at the moment, despite being on a main road, is not a bad place to go and they seem to get great attendances judging by the volume of people I see when I drive by.

The same could be said of shamrock rovers in Tallaght stadium. Good attendances when people are safe although they do have critical mass advantage in Dublin so I'm sure that plays a major part.

You're recalling the old St Mel's park https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Mel%27s_Park which was indeed located in an area which in today's language we'd call "socially challenged" but Athlone moved to a fantastic new stadium not far from the Athlone GAA club on the Longford road just on the edge of town in 2007, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athlone_Town_Stadium so unfortunately the reason so few people attend is not down to the challenge of accessing St Mel's park although I have to say that as as kid in the 70's and early 80's navigating to St Mel's Park always seemed to create a tense atmosphere which modern out of town stadiums seem to lack.

Damien360 wrote: »

You are right about local business not seeing local clubs as an opportunity. Not sure about ATFC but Kildare Town here died a death through lack of support from business. The main stand was tiny so they couldn't pack them in. The football was cat which didn't help.

Finally, price. The GAA and rugby is growing as you say, because they are accessible. Your local game will not set you back a fortune. The finals will which is fair enough. Although the FAI clubs need to survive, if you price something accordingly, people will come. You make your money on ancillary stuff on sheer numbers of people instead of at the gate. You ain't getting premier league so pitch it as a night out, same way the greyhound stadiums have done it. It's family friendly. In fairness, they got central funding. Maybe the FAI need to dig a lot deeper. Think more local and not compare themselves to the big boys across the water.

All fair points. I do think the availability of Premier League soccer on TV is a major obstacle for LOI though. People are saturated with soccer so when it comes to how they want to spend their leisure time actually watching a live sport they already have their fill of soccer and those that don't will often have too high expectations and feel disappointed that attending their local team matches isn't anything like watching a Premier League match in terms of atmosphere, quality of football, slickness of operation etc etc.

An interesting experiment might be to do away with gate receipts all together and allow anyone who wants to watch their local team in FOC but do a whip around at half time with the time honoured buckets. Instead of charging 200 people €10 a head and generating €2,000 wouldn't it be better if 500 people attended and they all (on average) contributed €5 a head. The gate receipts would go up to €2,500, the atmosphere would be better and the takings in the shop and for raffles etc would be higher also.

It works for the Catholic Church and those boys know how to milk their target market for all it's worth

CSF

Tomagotchye wrote: »

How does this fine work? Because they already can't afford to pay players right? I mean will they take the money now and kick them while they're down or will wait a while until maybe they go back in the black and then taking the money like a sucker punch?

Surely they should have gotten a points reduction or something.

When all the other teams in the league break certain rules we get fined. It would make a joke of the league if the fine was waived just because the club in question spent their way into financial difficulties.

We're right back here at the same situation we came into with Monaghan. Just look at the squad Monaghan put together to get promoted. And yet the FAI get the blame.

People quote licensing but I don't think people would have been any less critical if Athlone or Monaghan had been prevented from taking their place in the First Division the year of the promotion.

And talk of using the license to implement budget control is all the more difficult when you consider how prevalent off the books payments are in the League of Ireland.

Athlone are in financial difficulty for the same reasons Shels, Cork or Bohs suffered financial woe on years gone by, too much money spent chasing a dream that was never realised.

54and56

CSF wrote: »

Athlone are in financial difficulty for the same reasons Shels, Cork or Bohs suffered financial woe on years gone by, too much money spent chasing a dream that was never realised.

Whilst I don't disagree that fundamentally the problem boils down to spending more than you are capable of generating I don't think (and I am totally open to correction) that Athlone are chasing some sort of pipe dream. I think the limit of their ambition this year is to be somewhat competitive and not come absolute last in league one. If that's an unsustainable dream for the club they may need to accept the fact that LOI participation is just not financially viable for them, hence my original post in the first place!!

Lovely Bloke

stop calling it League 1 please. It's not called that.

CSF

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Whilst I don't disagree that fundamentally the problem boils down to spending more than you are capable of generating I don't think (and I am totally open to correction) that Athlone are chasing some sort of pipe dream. I think the limit of their ambition this year is to be somewhat competitive and not come absolute last in league one. If that's an unsustainable dream for the club they may need to accept the fact that LOI participation is just not financially viable for them, hence my original post in the first place!!

Last season they did, they were outbidding Shels and Drogheda for players which obviously on their attendances they couldn't afford to do. They carried a ****load of unpaid wages into this season and that's where they are now.

To Elland Back

CSF wrote: »

Last season they did, they were outbidding Shels and Drogheda for players which obviously on their attendances they couldn't afford to do. They carried a ****load of unpaid wages into this season and that's where they are now.

A couple of years ago, Waterford signed up a lot of the good Wexford & Cobh players. They never paid them in full, but it was a deliberate effort to weaken both sides in their promotion push. They are reaping that reward now

54and56

CSF wrote: »

They carried a ****load of unpaid wages into this season and that's where they are now.

Does anyone know the ball park amount of unpaid wages carried forward from last season in league one first division into this season? Are we talking €2,000 to €4,000 range or tens of thousands?

One of the main problems with carrying operating expense debt like that into a new season is that any potential sponsors aren't going to agree to have their money pay off a previous seasons problem. Eaten bread is soon forgotten. If I was a potential sponsor I'd want to know that the €x I was contributing was going towards the cost of putting a team on the pitch this season otherwise I wouldn't consider it. Might as well flush the cash down the toilet.

54and56

To Elland Back wrote: »

A couple of years ago, Waterford signed up a lot of the good Wexford & Cobh players. They never paid them in full, but it was a deliberate effort to weaken both sides in their promotion push. They are reaping that reward now

Don't players ever undertake any sort of due diligence on the clubs promising them big money as in actually check to see if the clubs are in financial position to honour the commitments they are making? I guess not.

dan1895

To Elland Back wrote: »

A couple of years ago, Waterford signed up a lot of the good Wexford & Cobh players. They never paid them in full, but it was a deliberate effort to weaken both sides in their promotion push. They are reaping that reward now

In the past I've had the suspicion that clubs are only signing players so those around them in the table can't have them.

Lovely Bloke

dan1895 wrote: »

In the past I've had the suspicion that clubs are only signing players so those around them in the table can't have them.

Like Ollie did?

Oh that glorious evening when the news broke that Hawkins, Ryan and Crowe were moving to Shels.

"Tell all the Boez you know..."

Frogdog

topmanamillion wrote: »

I've seen this in a few places but it makes no sense.
The U17&U19 leagues are the place to be for the best young talent.
To have a team in them you have to have a LOI side.
The likes of Kevins in Dublin have even weighed up having a LOI side,that the people running Athlone would sabotage the senior team really doesn't add up.

Not true, e.g. Kerry U17 LoI side this year, with an U19 side to follow in a couple of years. No senior team.

dan1895

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Like Ollie did?

Oh that glorious evening when the news broke that Hawkins, Ryan and Crowe were moving to Shels.

"Tell all the Boez you know..."

Ha true. But talking more recently.

topmanamillion

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Does anyone know the ball park amount of unpaid wages carried forward from last season in league one first division into this season? Are we talking €2,000 to €4,000 range or tens of thousands?

One of the main problems with carrying operating expense debt like that into a new season is that any potential sponsors aren't going to agree to have their money pay off a previous seasons problem. Eaten bread is soon forgotten. If I was a potential sponsor I'd want to know that the €x I was contributing was going towards the cost of putting a team on the pitch this season otherwise I wouldn't consider it. Might as well flush the cash down the toilet.

I think it's relatively small figures. There are about 14 amateur players on about E20-50/week expenses.
So if all of them haven't been paid for say 10 weeks (be surprised if they went that long).
We'd be talking 4k. Add in another 2 or 3 k from last year and round it off to 10k.
It's probably not even that high and certainly not an insurmountable figure.

Athlone problems aren't really money, it's more to with good organisation or lack of.
A well run club with a good supporter base would clear a E10k debt with a couple of fundraisers.

Just read that Peter McCloone (formed general secretary of IMPACT) is the independent consultant.
Hopefully he has the expertise to put the mess straight and sort out essentially what are employment issues.