Athlone Town FC - Time to call it a day?

topmanamillion

Frogdog wrote: »

Not true, e.g. Kerry U17 LoI side this year, with an U19 side to follow in a couple of years. No senior team.

Athlone would be taking a huge risk.
Their place in the youth leagues may well be taken by their replacement in the league.
So if the plan is to drop out, it's a risky one.
Even if they did keep their place, they would end up with their best players poached by the big Dublin Clubs and even Longford, all of which would have a senior pathway.

Kerry & Monaghan/Cavan would be seen as areas without nearby youth set ups.
Then Salthill & Mervue are closely affiliated with Galway (they have a share holding in Galway).

54and56

topmanamillion wrote: »

A well run club with a good supporter base would clear a E10k debt with a couple of fundraisers.

I know anecdotally that the Athlone support base is tired of fundraisers. The amount of times in the past they've been told "just one more" fundraiser and things will be ok.

There's only so many times you can go to the well.

CSF

I don't get why Athlone would cease to have a football club. Why not just accept their place in the pecking order in that to compete for a Premier Division spot they'll have to work harder to unearth gems that other teams aren't looking at, and work on bringing through young players, rather than be able to sign proven players like clubs with more income can.

Are there actual examples of it ever working for teams in Irish football who threw money they couldn't afford in the hope that the success it would bring would create the money to pay the shortfall, and the long-term was fine? I honestly can't think of one so why do teams keep trying it?

If you're a team with 300ish attendances and limited alternative income streams, budget accordingly, if you're a team with 700ish attendances and limited alternative alternative income streams then you can stretch a little bit further but realistically you still have to accept your place in the pecking order and hope you can still create success without throwing money at it.

We can blame the FAI for Delaney not being the brightest or most charismatic, we can blame the FAI for doing a terrible job of advertising the league, reasonable arguments. But blaming the FAI for teams going bust? Nah not having that. If you're a team under a certain amount of income then you're going to have to go amateur (a large number of Shels players for instance would be on amateur deals), if you're a team who can't afford the basic costs of running a LOI club on your amount of income, then the LOI probably isn't the place for you. But I don't think Athlone or Monaghan actually fitted that description, they were just run terribly.

54and56

topmanamillion wrote: »

Then Salthill & Mervue are closely affiliated with Galway (they have a share holding in Galway).

Might be a good idea for Willow Park FC and St Peters FC to have substantial shareholdings in ATFC going forward. It would provide some experienced counterbalance to a single group of shareholders running the club as they see fit and tie their youth players into a pathway to LOI football even if it is only league one the first division

54and56

CSF wrote: »

Are there actual examples of it ever working for teams in Irish football who threw money they couldn't afford in the hope that the success it would bring would create the money to pay the shortfall, and the long-term was fine? I honestly can't think of one so why do teams keep trying it.

I agree 100%, it's not a sustainable strategy and is in fact reckless. you are effectively betting the history and future of the club on future success, you're all in with no plan B. The reason people keep doing it is they have very short time horizons. They want to be associated with overseeing a success on the pitch so they can live off the stories down the pub for the rest of their lives regardless of the potential downside if it doesn't work out. It's a bit like Anglo/BOI/AIB managers flogging huge loans to hit big performance targets and secure their personal bonuses with zero regard to the viability of the projects being financed and and the consequences of what would happen if the loans went bad.

price690

Its a combination of factors. The current executive committee consists really of 2 lads. These 2 seemed to have annoyed the supporters and won't step down. However i've only ever seen people suggest that the committee step down.

They should step down but theres no mention of what the plan is after that. Theres talk of a group of people willing to step in and run the club, but its all very vague cloak and dagger stuff. if the appetite is there then it won't be a hard job to remove the committee but Athlone's problem is just that, very little appetite. Its said that crowds will come back once these lads are gone and that links between the community and the club will improve then. But from my recollection, links between the club and the community had deteriorated even before the current regime took the reigns.

So even though I agree they should stand down, to say that this alone will solve the clubs problems is wide of the mark.

An emergency meeting in the last couple of weeks had a max of maybe 50 people. If more people actually cared and formulated a proper plan of action then they could get rid of the board and start afresh. But as it stands there seems to be a pretty tame effort in trying to oust them and plenty of whinging.

Amazing how everyone has a story about the glory days of their visit to watch ATFC, and how they are outraged at how it has come to this. It has come to this because the appetite is not there to watch them.

More action and less whinging would be a start. People with more understanding of running a club and how to engage with local business, nurture links with schools, the junior football clubs in the midlands region, get the club to train in athlone and go amateur for a start.

ATFC is not a viable option for a young Athlone based player who would have to pay his own way to train in Dublin week in week out. The first team roll in on friday, pick up their expenses (or not as is the case now) and then they are next seen again in 2 weeks time for the next home game.

Its pure nonsense. Going "all local" is insular sounding, but you need a local heart to the club and then pad it out with other players to make up the numbers. It stands to reason that a local player (if the ability is there obviously) will have his family and friends paying at the gate to watch. And if Athlone get a hiding for a few seasons then so be it. Its not like they are not rooted to the bottom places in the table under the current model.

Hopefully some people with a bit of vision come to the forefront, people with a bit of passion and get up and go. Rather than just wallowing and whinging

CSF

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

I agree 100%, it's not a sustainable strategy and is in fact reckless. you are effectively betting the history and future of the club on future success, you're all in with no plan B. The reason people keep doing it is they have very short time horizons. They want to be associated with overseeing a success on the pitch so they can live off the stories down the pub for the rest of their lives regardless of the potential downside if it doesn't work out. It's a bit like Anglo/BOI/AIB managers flogging huge loans to hit big performance targets and secure their personal bonuses with zero regard to the viability of the projects being financed and and the consequences of what would happen if the loans went bad.

Yup, I think part of it is just people getting over-excited with themselves. Like the prospect of being involved a team who aren't challenging for honours just isn't fitting enough for them.

There are a great number of things Athlone could have done to improve their chances of success, jeopardising the future of the club shouldn't have been one of them.

Every time it goes on at a club, you've people going around with buckets, you've had kids giving up Christmas presents to give money to clubs, generally the LOI preaching sympathy and not being able to understand why the FAI might not go out of their way to save them.

But I don't get why we should have sympathy for clubs, the term financial doping sounds ridiculous in the League of Ireland but that is exactly what it is. Clubs now are going all out getting a competitive advantage spending all this money, knowing that if their risk doesn't pay off, people will bail them out anyway. If Athlone hadn't gone spending all this money last year, Drogheda mightn't have been relegated, could have been the difference for Shels to be able to sign one extra player who could have made the difference in reaching the playoffs. And when a team is in the League of Ireland First Division you can't demote them, and what difference would a points deduction make to Athlone at this stage anyway?

price690

CSF wrote: »

I don't get why Athlone would cease to have a football club. Why not just accept their place in the pecking order in that to compete for a Premier Division spot they'll have to work harder to unearth gems that other teams aren't looking at, and work on bringing through young players, rather than be able to sign proven players like clubs with more income can.

Are there actual examples of it ever working for teams in Irish football who threw money they couldn't afford in the hope that the success it would bring would create the money to pay the shortfall, and the long-term was fine? I honestly can't think of one so why do teams keep trying it?

If you're a team with 300ish attendances and limited alternative income streams, budget accordingly, if you're a team with 700ish attendances and limited alternative alternative income streams then you can stretch a little bit further but realistically you still have to accept your place in the pecking order and hope you can still create success without throwing money at it.

We can blame the FAI for Delaney not being the brightest or most charismatic, we can blame the FAI for doing a terrible job of advertising the league, reasonable arguments. But blaming the FAI for teams going bust? Nah not having that. If you're a team under a certain amount of income then you're going to have to go amateur (a large number of Shels players for instance would be on amateur deals), if you're a team who can't afford the basic costs of running a LOI club on your amount of income, then the LOI probably isn't the place for you. But I don't think Athlone or Monaghan actually fitted that description, they were just run terribly.

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Might be a good idea for Willow Park FC and St Peters FC to have substantial shareholdings in ATFC going forward. It would provide some experienced counterbalance to a single group of shareholders running the club as they see fit and tie their youth players into a pathway to LOI football even if it is only league one the first division

two excellent posts. Actual thoughts and ideas about what can be done. CSF you are absolutely spot on in relation to the current model (not just with Athlone) being unsustainable.

Its based on someone running it at a loss in the hope it will lead to something greater. And its been that way for years, with no sign of anything "bigger" on the horizon. Domestic clubs lurch on from one catastrophe to the next. Even the more perceived successful clubs are one investor pull out away from disaster.

Je Suis jean mentioned Athlone offering shareholdings to larger junior clubs, this definately has some merit. The best young players in the region simply have to have a pathway or aspirations of playing for ATFC.

Its a symptom of Irish football for years, its completely fractured.

I think Athlone even have under 15s and 16s who are successful in the DDSL premier this season, which has traditionally been the shop window for young lads going to England. So in time, surely the talent is there to play for the first team.

54and56

price690 wrote: »

Hopefully some people with a bit of vision come to the forefront, people with a bit of passion and get up and go. Rather than just wallowing and whinging

I don't think everyone is whinging, I'm not and I apologise if I gave that impression. I'm curious about how things got to this point and disappointed that they have bit I haven't lived in Athlone for 30 years so I have little to offer.

You on the other hand sound plugged into the club, energetic and have positive ideas. What's stopping you going to the meetings, putting forward your ideas and offering to get involved in turning the club around? Genuine question.

Can Athlone be rebuilt to a point it is a financially sustainable LOI club? Personally I don't think so. There is too much competition for the limited time and discretionary spend people in the general Athlone area have to support local sports.

I hope I'm wrong.

price690

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

I don't think everyone is whinging, I'm not and I apologise if I gave that impression. I'm curious about how things got to this point and disappointed that they have bit I haven't lived in Athlone for 30 years so I have little to offer.

You on the other hand sound plugged into the club, energetic and have positive ideas. What's stopping you going to the meetings, putting forward your ideas and offering to get involved in turning the club around? Genuine question.

Can Athlone be rebuilt to a point it is a financially sustainable LOI club? Personally I don't think so. There is too much competition for the limited time and discretionary spend people in the general Athlone area have to support local sports.

I hope I'm wrong.

I didn't mean to give the impression I thought you were whinging, you clearly were not. I was complimenting you on a great post and outside the box idea of offering shareholdings to the junior clubs.

I do sound plugged in to the club and the general area but like yourself its been a good few years since I lived in the area.

As for Athlone being rebuilt to a point its a financially sustainable LOI club? I think the future is to develop the youth of the area and give them LOI experience in the long term. Get the best players in Athlone playing for ATFC. And the really good ones will use it as a stepping stone to make a career elsewhere which is a purpose in itself. If the club are bottom of the league doing this then its not that different to how things are now. Athlone are not pulling up any trees paying out of towners to train in dublin.

Amateur football is the way to go, even use it as a shop window to move elsewhere. Local goodwill, closer links to schools/businesses, junior clubs having a say, and from an underage perspective having all roads leading towards the athlone town first team. Who knows what would be possible, but at least unsustainable costs of paying LOI journeymen 50 or 100euro a week to sit bottom of the league would be a thing of the past.

You also cultivate a culture where people are more likely to volunteer for their local football team that gives a fair crack to young lads of the area to compete on a national level. Their friends and family paying at the gate come rain or shine also nurtures a following in itself.

54and56

price690 wrote: »

I didn't mean to give the impression I thought you were whinging, you clearly were not. I was complimenting you on a great post and outside the box idea of offering shareholdings to the junior clubs.

I do sound plugged in to the club and the general area but like yourself its been a good few years since I lived in the area.

As for Athlone being rebuilt to a point its a financially sustainable LOI club? I think the future is to develop the youth of the area and give them LOI experience in the long term. Get the best players in Athlone playing for ATFC. And the really good ones will use it as a stepping stone to make a career elsewhere which is a purpose in itself. If the club are bottom of the league doing this then its not that different to how things are now. Athlone are not pulling up any trees paying out of towners to train in dublin.

Amateur football is the way to go, even use it as a shop window to move elsewhere. Local goodwill, closer links to schools/businesses, junior clubs having a say, and from an underage perspective having all roads leading towards the athlone town first team. Who knows what would be possible, but at least unsustainable costs of paying LOI journeymen 50 or 100euro a week to sit bottom of the league would be a thing of the past.

You also cultivate a culture where people are more likely to volunteer for their local football team that gives a fair crack to young lads of the area to compete on a national level. Their friends and family paying at the gate come rain or shine also nurtures a following in itself.

Super post, 100% agree. At least that would give the club a realistic, relevant and useful mission in life which locals would be more likely to support long term.

I hope Peter McCloone is reading this thread!!

dfx-

price690 wrote: »

two excellent posts. Actual thoughts and ideas about what can be done. CSF you are absolutely spot on in relation to the current model (not just with Athlone) being unsustainable.

Its based on someone running it at a loss in the hope it will lead to something greater. And its been that way for years, with no sign of anything "bigger" on the horizon. Domestic clubs lurch on from one catastrophe to the next. Even the more perceived successful clubs are one investor pull out away from disaster.

Je Suis jean mentioned Athlone offering shareholdings to larger junior clubs, this definately has some merit. The best young players in the region simply have to have a pathway or aspirations of playing for ATFC.

Its a symptom of Irish football for years, its completely fractured.

I think Athlone even have under 15s and 16s who are successful in the DDSL premier this season, which has traditionally been the shop window for young lads going to England. So in time, surely the talent is there to play for the first team.

But how do you inspire youngsters to want to play for a side meandering along at the bottom paying expenses in front of 50 people. The senior side has to have some ambition.

It's a magic juggling act that no-one in the league has dared go near for very good reasons.

54and56

dfx- wrote: »

But how do you inspire youngsters to want to play for a side meandering along at the bottom paying expenses in front of 50 people. The senior side has to have some ambition.

ATM the local youngsters playing for Willow Park or St Peters have no formal pathway into LOI. If bringing 2-3 youngsters into the Athlone squad every year didn't inspire them I'm not sure what would. ATFC may be bumping along the bottom of Div 1 but at least they're in Div 1 and it's a platform for youngsters to test themselves and who knows go on to better things? Also, if the team had meaningful connections to the local population (primarily or exclusively local players, train locally, outreach to local schools etc) attendance would improve. I'm not saying it would grow to 1,500 every game but it would certainly be a lot better than it currently is.

ATM Athlone is really nothing more than a flag of convenience for what is effectively another Dublin club i.e. made up primarily of Dublin players who train in Dublin, have little or no connection to Athlone and only turn up in Athlone to play home matches before driving back home to Dublin.

Before anyone accuses me of blaming Dublin players for Athlone's problems let me make it absolutely clear I am not. It's not their fault the club signed them up. All they can do is train and play as asked by the club.

Gael85

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

ATM the local youngsters playing for Willow Park or St Peters have no formal pathway into LOI. If bringing 2-3 youngsters into the Athlone squad every year didn't inspire them I'm not sure what would. ATFC may be bumping along the bottom of Div 1 but at least they're in Div 1 and it's a platform for youngsters to test themselves and who knows go on to better things? Also, if the team had meaningful connections to the local population (primarily or exclusively local players, train locally, outreach to local schools etc) attendance would improve. I'm not saying it would grow to 1,500 every game but it would certainly be a lot better than it currently is.

ATM Athlone is really nothing more than a flag of convenience for what is effectively another Dublin club i.e. made up primarily of Dublin players who train in Dublin, have little or no connection to Athlone and only turn up in Athlone to play home matches before driving back home to Dublin.

Before anyone accuses me of blaming Dublin players for Athlone's problems let me make it absolutely clear I am not. It's not their fault the club signed them up. All they can do is train and play as asked by the club.

How many of the Athlone squad are based in Dublin? Do players train in Athlone during the week? Think majority Longford Town squad based in Dublin.

54and56

Gael85 wrote: »

How many of the Athlone squad are based in Dublin? Do players train in Athlone during the week? Think majority Longford Town squad based in Dublin.

My understanding (I'm 100% open to correction though) is that most if not all are based in Dublin and the team actually trains in Dublin mid week.

SantryRed

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

My understanding (I'm 100% open to correction though) is that most if not all are based in Dublin and the team actually trains in Dublin mid week.

That's been the set up for Longford and Athlone for years at this stage, unless it has changed without my knowledge! Not exactly endearing to the local fans when they're all Dubs rocking up for games.

SEPT 23 1989

Big catchment area can't understand how it would not be a success if it was run right

54and56

SantryRed wrote: »

That's been the set up for Longford and Athlone for years at this stage, unless it has changed without my knowledge! Not exactly endearing to the local fans when they're all Dubs rocking up for games.

I know you don't mean it as an Anti Dub statement but what you say is true. It doesn't matter where the players are from. If they have no connection to the area the club is based, don't live or work in the area, don't even train in the area and simply turn up for home games every 10 days or two weeks how can they have any passion for the club and how can supporters have any emotional buy into the team? You're effectively asking locals to go support a team of total blow in strangers. It's not the fault of the players though so please don't take what I'm saying out of context. If the club offer them contracts and they want to play they can't be personally blamed. If the club facilitate such a structure then it's the club decision makers who are at fault.

It should be a fundamental principle of any regional club that their squad is made of of players who live and work within the natural hinterland of the club which in the case of Athlone could stretch west half way to Galway, north towards Longford, east to Kinnegad and south to Carlow. If some young Dublin based players (e.g. footloose and fancy free lads in their early 20's) are needed to strengthen the squad they should only be recruited if they agree to move to the greater Athlone area but in exchange for making such a commitment the club should use it's connections to make sure they get relevant employment and help set them up with accommodation etc. I don't mean lay out thousands of Euro's to subsidise them but use their local knowledge, connections and goodwill to make living in the Athlone area for a year or two something which is appealing to young players.

54and56

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Big catchment area can't understand how it would not be a success if it was run right

What do you think the catchment are is and what population is within that catchment area? I doubt it's more than 35,000 people and when you strip that down to the demographic likely to be potential soccer fans (males aged 16 to 60) who aren't already committed to rugby or GAA etc it's actually quite small.

ATM Athlone play in front of 200-300 max. Even if they tripled that it would still be less than 1,000 per gate with max 20 gates per season? It's not much no matter how you slice it.

topmanamillion

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

My understanding (I'm 100% open to correction though) is that most if not all are based in Dublin and the team actually trains in Dublin mid week.

Parachuting players in from Dublin had a lot to do with flooring Monaghan, Kilkenny, Kildare et.al.
Youd think the likes of Athlone and Longford would have copped on to it.

I'm not anti Dublin or anything like it. But there is no way fans can have any attachment to a club/players when they don't interact/engage with the local community.

Sligo Rovers have all their players based in Sligo and they train on a pitch beside the Showgrounds.
That's the model to follow.

How can Athlone even get players to go around to schools/do promotion in Athlone when they are all in Dublin?

54and56

topmanamillion wrote: »

Sligo Rovers have all their players based in Sligo and they train on a pitch beside the Showgrounds.
That's the model to follow.

100%

Saint_Mel

Gael85 wrote: »

How many of the Athlone squad are based in Dublin? Do players train in Athlone during the week? Think majority Longford Town squad based in Dublin.

Players have been told that training is moving back to Athlone after the mid season break, which is part of the reason about 9 (so far) have left the club since last week. Most are on expenses only, so making a trip to Athlone 3 times a week when the club cant even cover the expenses was straw that broke camels back.

54and56

Saint_Mel wrote: »

Players have been told that training is moving back to Athlone after the mid season break

Poor timing to be implementing such a change mid season especially when the Dublin players were probably given a commitment they'd be training in Dublin in order to entice them to sign but it's 100% necessary that the squad becomes as locally focused as possible as soon as possible.

Saint_Mel wrote: »

which is part of the reason about 9 (so far) have left the club since last week. Most are on expenses only, so making a trip to Athlone 3 times a week when the club cant even cover the expenses was straw that broke camels back.

Can't blame Dublin players on expenses not wanting to spend 9 hours a week travelling to and from training in exchange for expenses. I doubt the clubs inability to pay their expenses, especially when the FAI are taking an active oversight role, is the reason they have left. I'd say it's purely that they can't commit to the extra time given they all probably have jobs etc or just don't want to do the driving and who can blame them? It's not like they have any real connection to Athlone is it?

Gavin "shels"

Seen on Foot.ie there's an EGM on Thursday...

topmanamillion

Gavin "shels" wrote: »

Seen on Foot.ie there's an EGM on Thursday...

I saw on the Athlone fans Facebook page that it's a fans group calling it with the expressed purpose to oust the current board.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1053569544725904&id=458882380861293&__tn__=%2As

price690

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Poor timing to be implementing such a change mid season especially when the Dublin players were probably given a commitment they'd be training in Dublin in order to entice them to sign but it's 100% necessary that the squad becomes as locally focused as possible as soon as possible.

Can't blame Dublin players on expenses not wanting to spend 9 hours a week travelling to and from training in exchange for expenses. I doubt the clubs inability to pay their expenses, especially when the FAI are taking an active oversight role, is the reason they have left. I'd say it's purely that they can't commit to the extra time given they all probably have jobs etc or just don't want to do the driving and who can blame them? It's not like they have any real connection to Athlone is it?

Ive seen this too, I agree with the policy of training in Athlone but its very ill timed and won't work whilst the club have alienated themselves from the Junior scene (Willow Park and St Peters) who would have to provide the bulk of the playing squad until the youth system is in a place to produce local talent.

As it stands, the under 19s (who are performing poorly 8th place out of 10 in their own league) will make up the playing squad for the rest of the season. Which obviously wont end well in the short term

dr.kenneth noisewater

They should really get Athlone IT involved if possible, get a few soccer scholarships for lads to play with Athlone Town and they'll be living locally for training then

54and56

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

They should really get Athlone IT involved if possible, get a few soccer scholarships for lads to play with Athlone Town and they'll be living locally for training then

That's the sort of thinking that the club needs. A couple of scholarships, some sponsored jobs/vehicles etc and a bit more thinking outside the box and who knows what could be sustainably achieved?

I'm a member of a local GAA club in Dublin and one of our coaches has a car sponsored by the local dealership FFS!!

Gavin "shels"

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

They should really get Athlone IT involved if possible, get a few soccer scholarships for lads to play with Athlone Town and they'll be living locally for training then

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

That's the sort of thinking that the club needs. A couple of scholarships, some sponsored jobs/vehicles etc and a bit more thinking outside the box and who knows what could be sustainably achieved?

I'm a member of a local GAA club in Dublin and one of our coaches has a car sponsored by the local dealership FFS!!

Just on the colleges, it was brought up at our Annual Fans' Forum back in April if the club had looked at those options - both DCU and Blanch IT were contacted but both wanted a sizeable chunk of money to do scholarships unfortunately.

Lucena

topmanamillion wrote: »

Gavin shels wrote: »

Seen on Foot.ie there's an EGM on Thursday...

I saw on the Athlone fans Facebook page that it's a fans group calling it with the expressed purpose to oust the current board.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1053569544725904&id=458882380861293&__tn__=%2As

So, did it come to anything?

54and56

Lucena wrote: »

So, did it come to anything?

Not sure what happened at the meeting but given the sole objective was to call for a vote of no confidence in the current management I can't see that they didn't get that outcome.

Looks like the club have cobbled together a hotch potch squad and management team to see them through the remainder of the season including a few U19's who all of a sudden are "ready for the step up to senior football" - http://www.westmeathindependent.ie/news/roundup/articles/2016/06/23/4122132-athlone-town-names-caretaker-management-team-for-cobh-clash/