Copa America 2016

SlickRic

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Messi and Ronaldo are peas in a pod, both temperamental geniuses who throw strops when things don't go their way. It's funny listening to Ronaldo haters who try to paint it otherwise

it just suits the media narrative of 'good v evil' is all.

the thing is, Ronaldo doesn't care if he comes across as egotistical.

cowboyBuilder

Oh Boo F*cking Hoo Messi!!!

Go and cry into your 4 UCL titles, 8 (?) Liga titles and 7 Baloon D'ors ...

Messi will be grand, he has at least another 5 UCL + Liga titles left

Billy86

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Messi and Ronaldo are peas in a pod, both temperamental geniuses who throw strops when things don't go their way. It's funny listening to Ronaldo haters who try to paint it otherwise

Will be a real shame if Messi doesn't play in Russia

Exactly, and I don't fully blame Messi for retiring - four final losses has to be unbelievably frustrating, especially with the shadow of Maradona still hanging over him on an international level. I would consider it poor form if he sat out the qualifiers and came back just for Russia, but I wouldn't judge him at all if in a few weeks/months he takes it all back and returns. I also wouldn't be shocked if this were a political move as others have hinted at - even with the emergence of Colombia and Chile, Argentina have been the most talented team in the Americas for quite some time and have squandered it.

That said, no goals in any of those four finals has to be something that makes the players turn around and look at themselves too. Managerial incompetence is one thing, but it's not as if they've played horrendous in a lot of those tournaments - some they were banging in the goals for, and others they were impenetrable defensively. But come the final, not once have they managed a win (and in at least the two Chile CA finals, and probably the Brazil one too, they were comfortably the more talented team, the WC final was evenly matched or maybe in Germany's favour in my opinion).

That's the nature of both Messi and Ronaldo, they are each extremely hard on themselves and on their team mates, which is precisely why they have got to where they are (in my opinion both could retire outright tomorrow morning and would still be firmly in the Pele/Maradona/Beckenbauer/Cruyff/Di Stefano 'best of the best of the best' discussion). It would be nice if people recognised this about the two of them rather than some fans continuing to try and portray Messi as infallible and Ronaldo as the reverse, but such is life. It shows up in other sports too, I remember Johnny Wilkinson back before all his injuries, when he looked set to go on to maybe be the greatest rugby player of all time, could get into an awful mood over missing a conversion or someone screwing up something small... when England were up by 30+ points with 5 minutes to play. But holy Christ, that lad was almost robotically perfect back than and anyone who watches both sports will remember what the 6 Nations tables tended to look like in the early 2000s.

Kobe248

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Messi and Ronaldo are peas in a pod, both temperamental geniuses who throw strops when things don't go their way. It's funny listening to Ronaldo haters who try to paint it otherwise

Will be a real shame if Messi doesn't play in Russia

Its a argument Ive made for years

I never say Ronaldos a angel

Its just funny when Messi does something its over looked, If Ronaldo does it theres madness over it

I was happy to see Messi booked for simulation yesterday, he gets away with it far to often

And throws as much strops as Ronaldo, Ive said it before and Ill say it again, nobody would say anything about Ronaldo if he wasnt good looking and a former United player

Saying that I wanted Argentina to win, I hate teams winning back to back

Billy86

Kobe248 wrote: »

Ive said it before and Ill say it again, nobody would say anything about Ronaldo if he wasnt good looking and a former United player

I think a lot of it actually stems from the fact so many other teams fans used to see him as a laughing stock (even before he 'put it together' he would still be close to unstoppable for a few months a season, though - just the rest of the team was also on a low ebb from about 2003-06). Jose Reyes was infinitely better than him we heard over and over, Ronaldo couldn't lace Robben's boots, Mark Gonzalez is going to be so much better than Ronaldo (my personal favourite), etc etc. Added into that, one of his own team mates - Rooney - was one of these guys, and England's greatest young hope at the very least, since a teenage Michael Owen (though Gazza was the more common comparison).

He also got so much hatred for being a 'one trick pony' (which never made sense... which trick?), a 'spoofer' and other meaningless sayings, 'all style and no substance' and so on and so on. People mocked him so much for so long, and so spitefully, that once he really put it together the spiteful hatred was so clear and apparent it was pretty amusing. People don't like being proved wrong for obvious reasons, and my oh my did Ronaldo ever do that to a large chunk of football fans.

One of the most telling examples was actually from our very own broadcaster, and it took until 2012 (if I recall), 5 years and 250-odd goals, later, to admit he wasn't a terrible player. That's the mentality people take when they know they went too far and were proven so badly wrong that admitting their error will make them look foolish (albeit less foolish than not admitting it).

Either way, I'm just happy to be witnessing a situation we haven't seen since Cruyff/Beckenbauer 40 years ago - two guys who could each make claims to be the greatest of all time playing at the same time, and for rival teams at that - we are incredibly fortunate to witness this and really should enjoy it as there is not too long left of it.

Kobe248

Billy86 wrote: »

I think a lot of it actually stems from the fact so many other teams fans used to see him as a laughing stock (even before he 'put it together' he would still be close to unstoppable for a few months a season, though - just the rest of the team was also on a low ebb from about 2003-06). Jose Reyes was infinitely better than him we heard over and over, Ronaldo couldn't lace Robben's boots, Mark Gonzalez is going to be so much better than Ronaldo (my personal favourite), etc etc. Added into that, one of his own team mates - Rooney - was one of these guys, and England's greatest young hope at the very least, since a teenage Michael Owen (though Gazza was the more common comparison).

He also got so much hatred for being a 'one trick pony' (which never made sense... which trick?), a 'spoofer' and other meaningless sayings, 'all style and no substance' and so on and so on. People mocked him so much for so long, and so spitefully, that once he really put it together the spiteful hatred was so clear and apparent it was pretty amusing. People don't like being proved wrong for obvious reasons, and my oh my did Ronaldo ever do that to a large chunk of football fans.

One of the most telling examples was actually from our very own broadcaster, and it took until 2012 (if I recall), 5 years and 250-odd goals, later, to admit he wasn't a terrible player. That's the mentality people take when they know they went too far and were proven so badly wrong that admitting their error will make them look foolish (albeit less foolish than not admitting it).

Either way, I'm just happy to be witnessing a situation we haven't seen since Cruyff/Beckenbauer 40 years ago - two guys who could each make claims to be the greatest of all time playing at the same time, and for rival teams at that - we are incredibly fortunate to witness this and really should enjoy it as there is not too long left of it.

I think thats the problem from a Irish point of view

We take the word from our panel as gospel

When really they dont have a clue about modern football

I dont support United, but I loved Ronaldo