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'If could bring in legislation to goddamn jail landlords, I would jail the Bastards"

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    #92
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,239 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    The rent restriction legislation is unconstitutional. It is was confined to a limited poeriod to avoid a challenge since the costs of taking an action by a landlord would be greater than any benefit they would obtain from having to accept lower rent. Some of the vulture funds with large portfolios are now beginning to suffer substantially as a result of the rent capping and may well have a go if
    there is any further messing by the government.


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    #93
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    The rent restriction legislation is unconstitutional..

    I'm genuinely curious- how do you make out that its unconstitutional?
    It is the law- period.


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    #94
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,619 ✭✭✭Villa05


    Claw Hammer wrote:
    The rent restriction legislation is unconstitutional. It is was confined to a limited poeriod to avoid a challenge since the costs of taking an action by a landlord would be greater than any benefit they would obtain from having to accept lower rent. Some of the vulture funds with large portfolios are now beginning to suffer substantially as a result of the rent capping and may well have a go if there is any further messing by the government.


    One of these professional LL recently made a statement that Dublin rents were unsustainablý high and is looking to other markets for future purchases


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    #95
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,022 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    In which case- rates will fall anyway- its simply a matter of by how much and when....... Either way- the logical thing for many landlords in that situation- is to sell the property- unless that are in a position to absorb the lower rental income.

    I suspect with the large number of units under the control of REITs- that rents will not fall nearly as sharply as they have done in the past- esp. in areas of demand.

    Key to all of this- is the addition of high quality supply in areas where people want to or need to live- and thats not something that is going to happen any time soon.
    Yep. The beloved "large landlords" will be much more able to contain any collapses in rents. Rents never go down over here. Nobody would ever expect their rent to fall, ever.


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    #96
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,239 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    I'm genuinely curious- how do you make out that its unconstitutional?
    It is the law- period.

    It is the law until it is challenged, which it has not yet been. Previous attempts to restrict rents have been declared unconstitutional. In 1979 a landlord had to accept £8 a week for a 4 storey house in Elgin Road.It was the law - period. In 1982 he didn't. The law-period was not repealed. There was a constitutional challenge.
    The current market restriction obliges landlords to accept less than market rent
    which was found, in the absence of compensation, to be unconstitutional in the erarly 1980s.


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    #97
    trobbin
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭trobbin


    Leo Varadkar has today said rent supplement will be increased. As a tax payer who gets no benefit at all, I don't like this. Just throwing more tax payer money at a problem. Reports on RTE also state rents higher now than peak in 2007.

    Mary Lou questioned why rent price haven't been included in the consumer price index? There's no proper answer, just clear that figures are being manipulated. If they include then, inflation will be proven to be too high, so they manipulate figures and tell us inflation is low, when we know it's clearly wrong.

    I'm getting more and more confident that interest rate hikes aren't far away. As soon as inflation gets proven to be growing, rates must rise to control it. Interest rate hikes will sort out the Irish housing market. Will mainly end property speculators buying property with cheap interest loans, people who need them will be able to buy, at a lower cost, but higher rate.


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    #98
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    trobbin wrote: »
    Mary Lou questioned why rent price haven't been included in the consumer price index? There's no proper answer, just clear that figures are being manipulated. If they include then, inflation will be proven to be too high, so they manipulate figures and tell us inflation is low, when we know it's clearly wrong.

    I'm no economist but I'd say the inelasticity of the housing market and relatively high peaks and troughs that are seen in it would lead to an obfuscation of a meaningful number to assign to CPI.


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    #99
    trobbin
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭trobbin


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    I'm no economist but I'd say the inelasticity of the housing market and relatively high peaks and troughs that are seen in it would lead to an obfuscation of a meaningful number to assign to CPI.
    But would it not be a more accurate figure. Of course it might make our CPI look very volatile and out of control, but that's a truer reflection of our CPI. Regardless.


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    #100
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    trobbin wrote: »
    But would it not be a more accurate figure. Of course it might make our CPI look very volatile and out of control, but that's a truer reflection of our CPI. Regardless.

    I've found a bit in the CSO figures table 7 http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/cpi/consumerpriceindexmay2016/
    This deals with housing and rent. The benefit of mortgage holders is being balanced against the high rents. That seems like it is taken into account.


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    #101
    trobbin
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭trobbin


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    I've found a bit in the CSO figures table 7 http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/cpi/consumerpriceindexmay2016/
    This deals with housing and rent. The benefit of mortgage holders is being balanced against the high rents. That seems like it is taken into account.
    Shouldn't be balanced out with anything else, should be a stand alone actual figure. Rents have increased in many cases 50% in last four years, mostly 30/40% and none of these figures show the truth. I'm very untrustworthy in regards to Ireland and figures released. Good day.


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    #102
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    trobbin wrote: »
    Shouldn't be balanced out with anything else, should be a stand alone actual figure. Rents have increased in many cases 50% in last four years, mostly 30/40% and none of these figures show the truth. I'm very untrustworthy in regards to Ireland and figures released. Good day.

    It has a higher weighting than mortgage interest, it's only balanced out because of the huge benefit those on low interest mortgages are getting right now.


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    #103
    quadrifoglio verde
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    trobbin wrote: »
    Leo Varadkar has today said rent supplement will be increased. As a tax payer who gets no benefit at all, I don't like this. Just throwing more tax payer money at a problem. Reports on RTE also state rents higher now than peak in 2007.

    Mary Lou questioned why rent price haven't been included in the consumer price index? There's no proper answer, just clear that figures are being manipulated. If they include then, inflation will be proven to be too high, so they manipulate figures and tell us inflation is low, when we know it's clearly wrong.

    I'm getting more and more confident that interest rate hikes aren't far away. As soon as inflation gets proven to be growing, rates must rise to control it. Interest rate hikes will sort out the Irish housing market. Will mainly end property speculators buying property with cheap interest loans, people who need them will be able to buy, at a lower cost, but higher rate.

    Increasing rent supplement is just a great big f you to low paid workers earning less than 25K a year

    They'll be commuting from longford and portlaoise once again


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    #104
    Monife
    Registered Users Posts: 3,014 ✭✭✭Monife


    psinno wrote: »
    "The new minister of state had a visitor to his new office this week – a girl on rent supplement who gets a maximum of €475 per month. The cheapest one bed apartment she can find is €592."

    Is rent supplement supposed to pay all your rent for you?

    God forbid the poor girl had to pay €27 per week towards her own living arrangements!


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    #105
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Monife wrote: »
    God forbid the poor girl had to pay €27 per week towards her own living arrangements!

    Rent supplement does not allow you to top up the payments, since there were no available properties under the limit she could not get any payment for rent supplement.


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    #106
    Monife
    Registered Users Posts: 3,014 ✭✭✭Monife


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    Rent supplement does not allow you to top up the payments, since there were no available properties under the limit she could not get any payment for rent supplement.

    There's plenty of cases where DSP have allowed upper limits to be exceeded.


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    #107
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Monife wrote: »
    There's plenty of cases where DSP have allowed upper limits to be exceeded.

    Those are exceptional cases that have to be cleared on a case-by-case basis. There is no blanket allowance allowing people to do this.


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    #108
    Baby01032012
    Registered Users Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭Baby01032012


    DSP HAP allows flexibility with rent. For rent allowance the rent payable needs to be no more than the maximum for that county council area, and then they make the tenant pay a contribution.


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    #109
    Baby01032012
    Registered Users Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭Baby01032012


    In terms of rent levels slowing down - this data is skewed due to the legislation bringing in 24 month rent reviews in the previous quarter. Data is based on new tenancies. Which are a lot less because rent reviews happened ahead of the legislation or can not happen for 24 months since last review.

    The main factors affecting price hasn't changed ie supply and demand - lack of available accommodation ( look at daft numbers v 2009) and number of people looking for accommodation has increased. Partly due to central bank rules limiting people who qualify for mortgages.


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    #110
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Baby01032012 wrote: »
    In terms of rent levels slowing down - this data is skewed due to the legislation bringing in 24 month rent reviews in the previous quarter. Data is based on new tenancies. Which are a lot less because rent reviews happened ahead of the legislation or can not happen for 24 months since last review.

    The main factors affecting price hasn't changed ie supply and demand - lack of available accommodation ( look at daft numbers v 2009) and number of people looking for accommodation has increased. Partly due to central bank rules limiting people who qualify for mortgages.

    The previous data was also based on new agreements., It is not a survey of the actual rents being paid. It is a survey of the level of rent in new lettings during a quarter. It is indicative of the direction of the market. The number of new tenancies did not vary because of previous rent increases other than people who moved because of increasing rents which would have the effect of increasing the number of new tenancies.


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