Report or not UK Reg car(s) for Irish residents

Tazium

I'm struggling with this dilemma. On one hand the cars are all premium and I 'd enjoy them myself; coupes, 4x4, hot hatches and one Lotus Esprit even. On the other hand is the nagging missus and other side of my mind thinking they'd be less premium if the relevant taxes were being paid. This has been going on for just over 4 years at this stage so have naturally expired the timelines of VRT registration. What would you do?

CINCLANTFLT

Tazium wrote: »

I'm struggling with this dilemma. On one hand the cars are all premium and I 'd enjoy them myself; coupes, 4x4, hot hatches and one Lotus Esprit even. On the other hand is the nagging missus and other side of my mind thinking they'd be less premium if the relevant taxes were being paid. This has been going on for just over 4 years at this stage so have naturally expired the timelines of VRT registration. What would you do?

Whose cars are these?

ShaunieVW

I'd say stay out if it. I presume it's a neighbour or something? I know people with track only cars with yellow plates on them. Someone reported one of the guys for having 2 yellow reg cars parked at his house and he got a visit from a revenue representative and it's still on going they are giving him awful hassle despite them never seeing a public road.

It's hardly the crime of the century we all know VRT is an unjust tax anyway.

MarkR

Unjust sure, but if i'm paying vrt, the guy across the road should do as well. If they've the money for sports cars, they can chip in a few quid.

Banjoxed

Tazium wrote: »

I'm struggling with this dilemma. On one hand the cars are all premium and I 'd enjoy them myself; coupes, 4x4, hot hatches and one Lotus Esprit even. On the other hand is the nagging missus and other side of my mind thinking they'd be less premium if the relevant taxes were being paid. This has been going on for just over 4 years at this stage so have naturally expired the timelines of VRT registration. What would you do?

What would I do? I'd mind my own business.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Tazium wrote: »

I'm struggling with this dilemma. On one hand the cars are all premium and I 'd enjoy them myself; coupes, 4x4, hot hatches and one Lotus Esprit even. On the other hand is the nagging missus and other side of my mind thinking they'd be less premium if the relevant taxes were being paid. This has been going on for just over 4 years at this stage so have naturally expired the timelines of VRT registration. What would you do?

I'd inform customs. If they're not permanent uk residents then they are not permitted to drive those cars here without paying VRT on them.

This is the only country this **** goes on. Do you think the French or German authorities would allow their residents to drive around in foreign registered vehicles? No of course they wouldn't and don't. Shop them to the relevant authorities.

pcardin

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

This is the only country this **** goes on. Do you think the French or German authorities would allow their residents to drive around in foreign registered vehicles? No of course they wouldn't and don't. Shop them to the relevant authorities.

Would you think German or French authorities would screw you on VRT and incredible retarded motor tax on top of that?

daheff

ShaunieVW wrote: »

It's hardly the crime of the century we all know VRT is an unjust tax anyway.

Unjust or not- its still the law of the land.

MarkR wrote: »

Unjust sure, but if i'm paying vrt, the guy across the road should do as well. If they've the money for sports cars, they can chip in a few quid.

I agree. If you can afford to buy then pay your taxes too.

pcardin wrote: »

Would you think German or French authorities would screw you on VRT and incredible retarded motor tax on top of that?

Not relevant. We dont live in France of Germany. If you want their taxation structure move there - or lobby your local TD to have it introduced here.


OP if they are not bothered paying their taxes to revenue and are quite clearly living in the Republic I'd be giving revenue a phonecall or a letter letting them know the car, reg plate and the address where to find it.

Atlantic Dawn

So would they be insured through a UK address or not insured, that is the question?

FluffyAngel

Theres a fine line between wanting to do the right thing and being irish
(being irish means drag a person down to my level) english call it spite like

bear1

Tazium wrote: »

I'm struggling with this dilemma. On one hand the cars are all premium and I 'd enjoy them myself; coupes, 4x4, hot hatches and one Lotus Esprit even. On the other hand is the nagging missus and other side of my mind thinking they'd be less premium if the relevant taxes were being paid. This has been going on for just over 4 years at this stage so have naturally expired the timelines of VRT registration. What would you do?

Are they fixed neighbours in Ireland? How are you classifying them as resident?
If they are spending most of the year in the UK then they are not resident in Ireland.
At the end of the day if you think a law is being broken then go ahead an call it in. Also, if this has been going on for 4 years, why are you now querying it?

lway

Tazium wrote: »

I'm struggling with this dilemma. On one hand the cars are all premium and I 'd enjoy them myself; coupes, 4x4, hot hatches and one Lotus Esprit even. On the other hand is the nagging missus and other side of my mind thinking they'd be less premium if the relevant taxes were being paid. This has been going on for just over 4 years at this stage so have naturally expired the timelines of VRT registration. What would you do?

Was wondering the same thing myself the past few weeks. Once a month i'd visit relatives in Meath who live in an estate, across the road from them is a house with a Merc on yellow plates which has been there for years. It's regularly driven according to my relatives. Was considering reporting it.
Used to work for multinational in Dublin years back and customs set up outside the gate one morning and caught a few foreign reg cars coming in to work that day.

Tazium

bear1 wrote: »

Are they fixed neighbours in Ireland? How are you classifying them as resident?
If they are spending most of the year in the UK then they are not resident in Ireland.
At the end of the day if you think a law is being broken then go ahead an call it in. Also, if this has been going on for 4 years, why are you now querying it?

They are resident in the republic of Ireland, at least one I know to also be working in the republic. It's going on 4 years and I've been focused on other issues, this one is just bubbling up to the surface again and especially on the arrival of a brand new X5 with UK plates now sitting in the drive of a neighbour who has replaced a slightly older model on UK plates with this one. If it's all above board then calling it in won't be an issue and if it's not above board then why shouldn't he be put under the same tax constraints as the rest of us? Just because he's getting away with it doesn't make it right.

grogi

Tazium wrote: »

I'm struggling with this dilemma. On one hand the cars are all premium and I 'd enjoy them myself; coupes, 4x4, hot hatches and one Lotus Esprit even. On the other hand is the nagging missus and other side of my mind thinking they'd be less premium if the relevant taxes were being paid. This has been going on for just over 4 years at this stage so have naturally expired the timelines of VRT registration. What would you do?

Yes, report. There should be no tolerance for breaking the law. Period.

grogi

ShaunieVW wrote: »

It's hardly the crime of the century we all know VRT is an unjust tax anyway.

If one does not like the law, they should move away... Simple as that.

There are brilliant places in the Pacific without VRT.

Cheensbo

Fcuking hell this is up there with declaring the wrong vat on garlic. Lock him up and throw away the key.

Or actually just myob and look after your own shop.

grogi

Cheensbo wrote: »

Fcuking hell this is up there with declaring the wrong vat on garlic. Lock him up and throw away the key.

Or actually just myob and look after your own shop.

Yes, exactly same issue. Tolerance for indirect stealing from all of us.

Cheensbo

grogi wrote: »

Cheensbo wrote: »

Fcuking hell this is up there with declaring the wrong vat on garlic. Lock him up and throw away the key.

Or actually just myob and look after your own shop.

Yes, exactly same issue. Tolerance for indirect stealing from all of us.

Nah, intolerance for vrt - which is direct theft from all of us. It's an illegal tax. So there's no moral high ground to waddle down here.

bazz26

If VRT is an "illegal" tax then I'm genuinely curious as to why hasn't anyone successfully challenged it in the courts over the years? Surely some legal eagle looking to make a name for themselves would have had it cracked by now?

grogi

LIGHTNING wrote: »

It's not illegal people just love to say that term when talking about VRT.

It's criminal. But not illegal

bazz26

LIGHTNING wrote: »

It's not illegal people just love to say that term when talking about VRT.

Sure the Sindo said it was on page 20 so it must be true. :pac:

Cheensbo

I've always followed the herd on the ole vrt/illegal thing, never bothered looking it up. I stand corrected.

Still don't reckon the op should report but that's just my opinion, man.

ldxo15wus6fpgm

grogi wrote: »

If one does not like the law, they should move away... Simple as that.

There are brilliant places in the Pacific without VRT.

Sorry but this is just lazy and doesn't wash with me. Why should I or anyone else leave their home country, friends, family etc because they disagree with a highly unpopular tax?

Do you agree wholeheartedly with every single law currently in effect? I should hope not, there's a lot of bull**** currently on our statute books.

bazz26 wrote: »

If VRT is an "illegal" tax then I'm genuinely curious as to why hasn't anyone successfully challenged it in the courts over the years? Surely some legal eagle looking to make a name for themselves would have had it cracked by now?

As far as I'm aware it is on very shaky legal grounds. Article 110 of the TFEU (formerly the treaty of Rome) is breached by imposing VRT, by most peoples' interpretation. There was a challenge in 2013 I think by a used car salesman, he lost due to the specifics of his case as far as I'm aware and the actually legality of VRT wasn't considered.

EDIT - on topic, for me it depends on the value of the cars and whether I like the people too I suppose! If they're pricks and driving a 40k sports car they can feckin well pay!

grogi

Camille Grumpy Chipmunk wrote: »

Sorry but this is just lazy and doesn't wash with me. Why should I or anyone else leave their home country, friends, family etc because they disagree with a highly unpopular tax?

I know you meant that as a rhetorical question, but that's actually a very common reason for people to move - to avoid taxes...

Those 35k of Monaco residents are not living there for weather alone

As far as I'm aware it is on very shaky legal grounds. Article 110 of the TFEU (formerly the treaty of Rome) is breached by imposing VRT, by most peoples' interpretation. There was a challenge in 2013 I think by a used car salesman, he lost due to the specifics of his case as far as I'm aware and the actually legality of VRT wasn't considered.

EDIT - on topic, for me it depends on the value of the cars and whether I like the people too I suppose! If they're pricks and driving a 40k sports car they can feckin well pay!

I agree it is shady. But ignoring the current law by not paying it is not the solution.

Marcusm

Camille Grumpy Chipmunk wrote: »

Sorry but this is just lazy and doesn't wash with me. Why should I or anyone else leave their home country, friends, family etc because they disagree with a highly unpopular tax?

Do you agree wholeheartedly with every single law currently in effect? I should hope not, there's a lot of bull**** currently on our statute books.



As far as I'm aware it is on very shaky legal grounds. Article 110 of the TFEU (formerly the treaty of Rome) is breached by imposing VRT, by most peoples' interpretation. There was a challenge in 2013 I think by a used car salesman, he lost due to the specifics of his case as far as I'm aware and the actually legality of VRT wasn't considered.

EDIT - on topic, for me it depends on the value of the cars and whether I like the people too I suppose! If they're pricks and driving a 40k sports car they can feckin well pay!

There is no distinction in the law concerning VRT on goods manufactured in Ireland, elsewhere in the EU or indeed anywhere else in the world. Accordingly it does not constrain the free movement of goods within the single market. Correspondingly, as a taxation matter, under the principles of subsidiarity, it is up to Ireland to decide whether or not to impose a registration tax. If you're u don't like it, vote in a government to change the law.

cruizer101

People like to give out about vrt but at the same time where do they suggest the money come from. More motor tax, more tax on petrol, less hospital beds, a tax can't be just magically disappeared with no consequence.

While it wouldn't be my favourite of taxes it isn't a bad one either as buying a new car is a luxury and in general we are better to tax luxury items.

Regarding OP I'd be inclined to report them especially considering they are fancy cars and so its not like they will be left car-less if they had to pay vrt.

Del2005

LIGHTNING wrote: »

At the risk of turning this in a political debate we are pissing money at crap that clearly doesnt work. 1/3 of the budget for the HSE goes towards salaries

You expect doctors and nurses to work for free? There's structural issues with the HSE that the government's are afraid to tackle due to the power of the unions.

Back on topic. VRT isn't illegal every country charges it some have high levels like us some have low levels like the UK. It replaced excise duty which was an illegal tax after the single market was introduced.

The bigger problem for the OP is are the neighbours insured? You can't get more than a month from an Irish company on UK plates and if the vehicle is been kept in Ireland I doubt a UK policy will cover it.

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

Back on topic. VRT isn't illegal every country charges it some have high levels like us some have low levels like the UK. It replaced excise duty which was an illegal tax after the single market was introduced.

The bigger problem for the OP is are the neighbours insured? You can't get more than a month from an Irish company on UK plates and if the vehicle is been kept in Ireland I doubt a UK policy will cover it.

What kind of VRT does UK have?

stimpson

I know someone who reported their neighbours. Always driving brand new High end SUVs with yellow plates. When nothing was done he rang revenue to be told that it was being dealt with.

About 18 months ago they were in the papers after making a settlement of €1.2 million. Apparently VRT was not the only tax they forgot to pay.

I pay my taxes. It's only fair that everyone else does the same.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Jesus.

Banjoxed wrote: »

What would I do? I'd mind my own business.

Bingo.

Sh1tbag OToole

Jesus. wrote: »

Bingo.

What kind of an ould goodie-3-shoes goes around reporting other people to the revenue? Not a very nice thing to do

Jimmy Garlic

Mind your own business.

maroondog

stimpson wrote: »

I know someone who reported their neighbours. Always driving brand new High end SUVs with yellow plates. When nothing was done he rang revenue to be told that it was being dealt with.

About 18 months ago they were in the papers after making a settlement of €1.2 million. Apparently VRT was not the only tax they forgot to pay.

I pay my taxes. It's only fair that everyone else does the same.

Id 100% agree. The cars (multiple) involved are all high end and the people have plenty of money to thru about. The mod mentioned a new X5 upgraded from a previous one, so its not too much to expect they'd pay the appropriate taxes. All taxes collected go towards running the country, people complaint about lack of money the Health and Educational systems etc have to run on & the poor service etc. Yet the same people on here also say ignore this and mind you own business??

Jimmy Garlic

maroondog wrote: »

All taxes collected go towards running the country,

Haha, not the case.

people complaint about lack of money the Health and Educational systems etc have to run on & the poor service etc. Yet the same people on here also say ignore this and mind you own business??

You should mind your own business, nobody likes an interfering busybody that goes around causing trouble. I knew of people like that in the past whose snitching resulted in them being alienated and blacklisted in the community they lived in, they had to move away. Served them right.

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly

They'll never know that their neighbour snitched.

ceegee

Cheensbo wrote: »

Fcuking hell this is up there with declaring the wrong vat on garlic. Lock him up and throw away the key.

Or actually just myob and look after your own shop.

What the f**k is everyones obsession with the garlic vat case. "Its a disgrace, all he did was import garlic" The guy committed 1.6 million of tax fraud, its not like they locked up someone for not declaring a couple of cloves in his luggage

c_meth

Rat them out.

If you're gonna dodge tax you should be doing it more discreetly.

Tigger

Was it for this the wild geese spread
The grey wing upon every tide;
For this that all that blood was shed,
For this Edward Fitzgerald died,
And Robert Emmet and Wolfe Tone,
All that delirium of the brave?
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave.

c_meth

Tigger wrote: »

Was it for this the wild geese spread
The grey wing upon every tide;
For this that all that blood was shed,
For this Edward Fitzgerald died,
And Robert Emmet and Wolfe Tone,
All that delirium of the brave?
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave.

Exactly. Romantic Ireland is gone with these tax dodging parasites.

Do what you feel you need to do OP. If your gut is telling you to ring Revenue then do it.

Just make sure you're familiar with the 'glass houses' analogy. Make sure everything in your own life is nice and rosy before you pick up the phone on someone else. You can rest assured that once they twig someone's called revenue on them, they'll be doing the exact same on everyone that lives in your neighbourhood for any minor little thing they can think up, just to cause grief for other people.

Canadel

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

What kind of an ould goodie-3-shoes goes around reporting other people to the revenue? Not a very nice thing to do

I would sooner report someone I suspected of tax avoidance to Revenue than a person I suspected of a criminal act to the guards.

Canadel

Canadel wrote: »

I would sooner report someone I suspected of tax avoidance to Revenue than a person I suspected of a criminal act to the guards.

Isn't tax avoidance a criminal act?

I get where you're coming from, but I'd be the other way around. Tax avoidance is a few Euro that you will never see. Criminal behaviour is your shed being cleared out when you're at work.


At least tax avoidance isn't malicious.

Jesus.

lway wrote: »

Was wondering the same thing myself the past few weeks. Once a month i'd visit relatives in Meath who live in an estate, across the road from them is a house with a Merc on yellow plates which has been there for years. It's regularly driven according to my relatives. Was considering reporting it.

You seriously need to get a life mate.

maroondog

Deleted User wrote: »

Isn't tax avoidance a criminal act?

I get where you're coming from, but I'd be the other way around. Tax avoidance is a few Euro that you will never see. Criminal behaviour is your shed being cleared out when you're at work.


At least tax avoidance isn't malicious.

Tax avoidance is legal as where tax evasion is illegal.

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

What kind of VRT does UK have?

£55 to register your vehicle.

https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/registering-an-imported-vehicle

relax carry on

Just use the online reporting tool. Completely anonymous.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/business/shadow-economy/reporting.html

bear1

Canadel wrote: »

I would sooner report someone I suspected of tax avoidance to Revenue than a person I suspected of a criminal act to the guards.

Tax avoidance isn't illegal.
I'm amazed that you would quickly report someone who hasn't paid a few k in tax but you wouldn't be as quick to report an actual crime to the police.
.

Banjoxed

bear1 wrote: »

Tax avoidance isn't illegal.
I'm amazed that you would quickly report someone who hasn't paid a few k in tax but you wouldn't be as quick to report an actual crime to the police.
.

The Valley of the Squinting Windows lives on..

Slideways

Snitches get stitches..

Keep your own house in order, if customs were doing their job correctly they wouldn't need blabber guts to run to them telling tales.

Nekarsulm

VRT was introduced to replace customs import duty, which Ireland had continued to impose for years after joining the EU. As the import duty was eventually ruled to be against EU law, a new name was needed for this tax.
So "Hey Presto"! We no longer tax the importation of cars, we just charge motorists somwhere between 7 and 30 thousand for issuing a registration number.