NAS Solution (continued)

Hi lads,

Think it's time to continue the discussion here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=99973845#post99973845

bk

bk wrote: »

I've a QNAP TS430 myself, so in the same boat, I use a Mac Mini in conjunction with it for Plex streaming and transcoding.

I agree, but you have the work out the cost of a new Intel CPU NAS versus the cost of the extra power used by an old PC you might have laying around. Of course it completely depends on the power usage of the PC.

My Mac Mini is pretty low powered and I already had it, so I worked out that it would take about 30 years for a new NAS to pay back for itself in power savings.

Worth doing the maths on it before splurging on a new NAS.

Plex works fine with dynamic IP's. It uses an account and a free cloud service to ensure plex clients can attach to the Plex server even behind dynamic IP's etc.




Haha, it feels like you are reading my mind! While I can't justify a new intel NAS based on power savings, I have been toying with the idea of putting the old one in my parents house as a backup and buying a new intel one for home.

And yes, you are absolutely correct about RAID not being a backup. Just last week the firmware on my QNAP got messed up! I've spent the last week copying everything off it to external USB HDD's over scp, super slow and painful! *

* I actually already had all important stuff already backed up, only non essential stuff wasn't backed up, but I'd still rather not lose it all still.

It's years since I've had a PC and I've no other machine capable of the task and I wouldn't use the Macbook for this.

I discovered there's a plex plugin for Kodi, but I still got the problem where the NAS doesn't have the power to transcode. But if it worked it would at least solve the static IP problem.

The Qnap TS 251+ now has a quad core celeron which might be up to the task of on-the-fly transcoding of 1080p ? Expensive buggers though.

You'd build a PC for that but it would be a lot more power hungry, but at least I got the advantage of night rate leccy for the car. I don;t really want a PC.

bk

Yup, just trying to come with a solution to your original streaming issues.

Another solution would be to offline re-encode all your videos to 5Mb/s CBR so that they are guaranteed to stream out over your 6Mb/s connection. Plex wouldn't need to do transcoding then and you could use your existing, underpowered NAS for Plex. Just another option.

I wouldn't need plex if I recoded all my movies which is an impossible task because I've no hardware capable of doing it in any meaningful time and then I'm taking up extra space by having low and high bitrate equivalents.

I think the easiest thing and the cheapest is to try the NAS in my Mothers and try the Plex plugin for Kodi , failing that would be to install plex on the Nvidia Shield TV, the NAS itself has a Plex App.

When my Mothers house gets Fibre tomorrow there should be a good 18-20 Mbs upload so that should be good for the majority of my high bitrate 1080p movies and home movies. Unfortunately I'll then have a 6Mbs upload from my house to the NAS but whatever I have on the laptop shouldn't be major, the NAS can deal with all the downloading etc.

bk

Even ignoring transcoding, I find using Plex much nicer then Kodi or other means of playing video files off the NAS. It is just a really nice interface, with lots of support for different clients (ios, mac, windows, fire tv, roku, ps3, ps4, android TV, etc.), no need for static IP's. I find it passes the girlfriend acceptance test extremely well.

ED E

Dynamic IP isnt really an issue, run No-IP at the site its on, then enter that domain name for the client devices and forward ports to allow access. Bobs your uncle.

Plex is awesome, but it loses its gonads on a low power device.

Media

Video Resolution 720p
Duration 50:57
Bitrate 3092 kbps
Width 1280
Height 720
Aspect Ratio 1.78
Container MKV
Video Frame Rate 24p
Video Profile high
Part

Duration 50:57
File -
Size 1.10 GB
Container MKV
Video Profile high
Codec H264
Bitrate 2646 kbps
Bit Depth 8
CABAC true
Chroma Subsampling 4:2:0
Color Range tv
Color Space bt709
Duration 50:57
Frame Rate 23.976 fps
Frame Rate Mode cfr
Height 720

Thats a typical H264 720p encode, a measly 3Mb.

ED E

ED E wrote: »

Dynamic IP isnt really an issue, run No-IP at the site its on, then enter that domain name for the client devices and forward ports to allow access. Bobs your uncle.

Plex is awesome, but it loses its gonads on a low power device.



Thats a typical H264 720p encode, a measly 3Mb.

Yes I just saw in the NAS where noip is supported and free, thanks for that that will be most useful and solves the issue of connecting via Kodi to the NAS externally !

Happy days, I was registered with duckdns a while back when I was playing around with ubuntu on my Odroid Xu3 Lite and it worked a treat but never used it for streaming only remots access.

bk

Mad_lad, wow, what a coincidence, check out this news, the Nvidia Shield TV is being updated with Plex Media Server, note the server bit, not just the client that is currently on it. It will even support transcoding, etc.

Given that you already have one, you could connect this to your NAS and it should largely sort all your issues. Very cool, I most check out the shield TV myself:

http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/6/10/11900638/nvidia-shield-plex-media-server-support
https://blog.plex.tv/2016/06/09/nvidia-shield-you-complete-us/

Wow that's pretty damn cool thanks :-)

The shield TV has a very powerful processor not sure how it compared to the Intel chips? But it's obviously good enough that it can transcoded in the fly, that's pretty damn cool.

My Mother got connected today and getting 93 MBS down and 18.5 up, fires where the NAS is going? :-)

I'm not sure I'd use the shield TV now as a NAS considering those speeds, that's pretty damn good.

I'm still really annoyed that it turned it the way it did with my fibre but l be able to stream in full quality hopefully , depending if the bistre of some movies doesn't peak being 18 MBs.

bk

Deleted User wrote: »

Wow that's pretty damn cool thanks :-)

Yup, if you do try it out, let us know how it goes. I'd be very interested in replacing my Mac Mini (basically used as a Plex Server) and Now TV box with one of these if it works well.

My current setup looks like:

QNAP Nas -> Mac Mini (Plex Media Server) -> Now TV (Plex Client)

I actually used to us the Mac Mini as both Server and Client, but believe it or not, that was actually more complicated then my current setup! Having to use a keyboard+mouse, issues with surround sound and having to deal with annoying update notifications, etc.

Surprisingly adding the Now TV actually simplified things despite the extra device. With it's lean back, remote friendly interface, no updates, etc. It is actually much easier to use and much more GF friendly, despite the fact that the mac mini is still there, but as a server.

I could see using a Shield TV as both Plex client and Server and thus eliminating the Mac Mini could simplify things even further and make it all more robust.

It is just a pity that there is no Now TV client available for Android TV.

Deleted User wrote: »

The shield TV has a very powerful processor not sure how it compared to the Intel chips? But it's obviously good enough that it can transcoded in the fly, that's pretty damn cool.

Shield TV uses ARM CPU and ARM CPU's are almost never faster then an Intel CPUs. However the ARM CPU in the shield is one of the fastest examples of an ARM CPU, so not far off a entry level current gen Intel CPU.

ARM CPU's are almost never faster then intel CPU's in outright performance, but where they excel is performance per watt (they give better performance per watt of power then intel CPU's which is obviously very important for mobile platforms, thus almost exclusively used in smartphones) and performance per dollar (they give very good performance for how little they cost).

Having said all that, the shield TV has a new, very powerful CPU, that is much more powerful then the one in our much older NAS. So while it still isn't faster then most current gen intel CPU's, it should be fast enough to do what we need, MPEG4 transcoding and even more impressively HEVC (4K) transcoding and to do it for very little power usage. Seriously impressive little device!

ED E

It doesn't need any CPU power, its got a hardware encoder/decoder, that's how it easily streams from a desktop. Similar to how your phone can play back 4k 264 without turning into a heap of melted plastic.

bk

ED E wrote: »

It doesn't need any CPU power, its got a hardware encoder/decoder, that's how it easily streams from a desktop. Similar to how your phone can play back 4k 264 without turning into a heap of melted plastic.

True, but not all software actually uses the hardware encoders/decoders. Though I assume Plex will. However even via software the CPU and GPU in the shield TV is pretty decent.

I have the NAS re-homed in my mothers !

Sadly I can't get Kodi to connect via Http or Webdav. Don't know what I'm doing wrong , I did forward the ports correctly and can even log in via the ddns on the laptop from my house but just can't get Kodi to connect.

ED E

Use NMAP to scan the DDNS name and see what listeners are there.


I've only ever spent 20mins playing with Kodi but its just a player. Your NAS is the important bit here, normally media is shared over DLNA(UPnP) broadcasts but this won't work over the public net. Plex has a client/server relationship built in and can work remotely but I'm not sure how this plays out with a bespoke NAS and Kodi. What is the NAS btw?

ED E

ED E wrote: »

Use NMAP to scan the DDNS name and see what listeners are there.


I've only ever spent 20mins playing with Kodi but its just a player. Your NAS is the important bit here, normally media is shared over DLNA(UPnP) broadcasts but this won't work over the public net. Plex has a client/server relationship built in and can work remotely but I'm not sure how this plays out with a bespoke NAS and Kodi. What is the NAS btw?

The NAS is a Qnap TS-231.

The other solution is to try the Plex Kodi plugin. If I can log into the NAS via my web browser I should be able to log in via Kodi.

How about trying FTP/SSH ?

FTP doesn't connect either. Shouldn't be this difficult, I can connect via my web browser on the laptop but not via Kodi.

O.K so I guess I have to give Plex a go, I just can't get Kodi to connect to the NAS no matter what I do. The WebDav server doesn't seem to work on the NAS at all and even though I can connect to the Nas form the Laptop via the DDNS , it simply doesn't work with Kodi. Bummer, I really like kodi.

Another thing I spotted is that my new Roberts R100 DAB/FM/Internet radio has no way to connect to external sources only via UPNP on internal networks, bummer too. I will contact Robarts and ask if they can include this option via a future Firmware update.

Installing plex on the NAS now, will update later this evening.

Oh my God, this is driving me insane !!!!

I get Plex working on the NAS and I can see it on the Shield but then it disconnects and won't reconnect and I can't connect to plex locally on the NAS then either, have to uninstall it on the NAS before it will work again.

I can see my movies etc come up on the Shield then it dies soon after. I think it's an issue with the NAS that hasn't been resolved. So now I'm wondering if this is the same reason the Webdav doesn't work with Kodi either ?

ED E

If you REALLY wanted to you could run two OpenVPN nodes and do Ethernet-Bridging to provide local access between both homes. OpenVPN is tricky to configure in regular mode but do-able, I found ethernet bridging to be a right pain (so much that I didnt bother, was just for Steam IHS).

A year down the road I'd say encode everything with HEVC and be done, it'd take a while but then your streaming requirements would be only be 60% of x264. Right now though playback isn't guaranteed across the board as HW decoders are in the minority of devices.

I could re-encode in H265 but I don't have the required processing power and I don't want to take up so much space by having two lots of the same movies for compatibility.

I tried restarting the Plex server on the NAS again and the Shield can pick it up in my house and I can see the movies etc and it tried to play but the server crashed again and I lost connection, seems to be major issues with Plex for Arm devices for a long time.

I've thought of the VPN but it sounds a lot more hassle than it's worth and may not work either. I'll think about it.

I'm also not happy at all with Plex , it thinks a lot of TV series are movies and movies TV series ? I would tolerate it if it worked.

So plex doesn't work. And I can't connect to the NAS from Kodi no matter what, even if I did it would be unsecured, but that doesn't really bother me because the NAS is locked down with access only to the folders that I want under a non Admin account. I can't connect via HTTP in Kodi even though I can connect perfectly fine from my browser and Webdav doesn't work.

All great stuff, I hate when this crap doesn't work !

I'm beginning to think the problems with Webdav are related to port 80 not opening on the pile of dirt Vodafone HG658c modem.

Port 22 will not manually open or automatically via the NAS software which actually works, The NAS opened a weird port for Telnet, 13131 ?

So I'll try Telnet and see what happens.

ED E

Oh, the management gateway is allowing you in over HTTPs but blocking HTTP (which Kodi probably uses to pull the actual content I suspect). If you disable it then forwarding 80 should work.

I'll give it a go cheers.

Next is to set up a VPN if that doesn't work.

I side loaded qnaps video app and or found and connected to the NAS but crashed son after, it obviously won't run on android TV.

Ok the above didn't work.

What I did was again, restart the Plex server on the NAS, this time I rebooted the NAS and then Re-enabled Plex and went home and it works, so far. I streamed 5 mins of a lower bitrate not exactly the full 1080P but High res enough, buffered for about 10 seconds, how it will handle my higher bitrate movies is another matter. But Fingers crossed it tays working.

If It works I'll have to find out why Plex messes up my TV shows and displays movies as TV shows. I am very particular with my library, I love Kodi but I will tolerate Plex if it continues to work but Plex Server is very buggy on Arm CPU's.

ED E

Sounds like you've pointed each library at each other. They use Freebase for Movies and TVDB for TV if I remember it right and require you to decide what each items category is by placing it in the correct parent folder.

ED E

ED E wrote: »

Sounds like you've pointed each library at each other. They use Freebase for Movies and TVDB for TV if I remember it right and require you to decide what each items category is by placing it in the correct parent folder.

Spot on, thanks !

Library looking good now !

Plex server died again, good when it works but Plex Server for Arm7 can't be depended on !

It's really cool that Nvidia are getting Plex server for the Shield TV, and even cooler that it will transcode 1080P but I can't put that in my Mothers but it would be an ultra cheap way of having a pretty food NAS that can transcode when necessary.

I downloaded 9 GB in about 25 mins and that wasn't even at half the speed of the Fibre in my Ma's, on my old DSL it would have taken 8-9 hrs !

A Quad Core Celeron TS 251+ Qnap is pretty expensive but seemingly an Intel based NAS is the only way to go for Plex.

Maybe I can sell my Ts-231 !

I think it won't be long befor my 3TB drive is full !

ED E

C2750D4i is what mines on, a fair bit more powerful (11,258 vs 6,342 for the TS 251+).

There's a big jump between pure NAS and what I'd call a home server. If you want just pure file serving a NAS is great but if you want to add a downloading client, plex, VPN server, owncloud etc then you want a real CPU. Theres a big price jump, but also a big increase in features. IMO, high end "NAS" units fall between the two and thus are a bad value proposition.

That board is pretty expensive, as much as a good powerful NAS.

The TS-251+ has a quad core Celeron now and capable of full 1080p transcoding.

I uninstalled Plex Server from the NAS last night because even though I was convinced the version that was on it was up to date, Plex was convinced it wasn't the latest but based on the version numbers of the version that was already on it it was the latest but I decided to install the version that the link led me to so I installed it and Plex now said "up to date" and so far it has not crashed. I'm streaming a high bitrate movie at the moment without the slightest glitch peaking at 2.8 MBs which is around 22 Mbs, and mostly 2.0 MBs or around 16.5 Mbs. Which is pretty high bitrates for sure but the connection in my Mothers is excellent, her upload is about as fast as my download.

I really like Kodi but if this works without the crazy level of crashing I was experiencing then Plex is more then good enough.

I have streamed around 30 mins worth now and it's perfect without a glitch.

I also discovered I can access my music to stream to the Roberts R100, I wanted to be able to connect to the NAS but there's no option to connect to anything outside the LAN. But the Qnap app on my mobile allows access to the NAS and from the App I can then stream to the R100, happy days !

My only issue is that it's possible we might be moving within the next year and there's a good chance I will have no fixed line internet access and will have to rely on the likes of 3 mobile so the NAS will stay in my Mother's but I will have no access to the NAS apart from maybe streaming music so I will have to have another hard drive with all my media for home. Unfortunately in Ireland you can only live in the middle of nowhere or in the middle of a poxy housing estate concrete jungle.