Why don't women follow women's sports?

Maireadio

The sports I mostly follow are athletics and tennis.

Athletics, I watch both men and women.

Tennis, I watch both men and women and these days I think women's tennis is better to watch.

gormdubhgorm

PressRun wrote: »

So women only watch women's tennis because men do. :rolleyes:

Women are capable of watching a sport and enjoying it on their own.

Not the exactly the majority of women do not seem capable of watching a sport and enjoying it on thier own.

Men are more likely to go to spectator sports then women are. Some of these men will bring women with them and/or attract women to them. As a big social event. Because the sports men follow will mean there will be more people there so this will result in even the causal fan going to "be seen" at the big event for the atmosphere or the craic.

If women were capable of watching a sport on thier own more there would be more women following women's sports. As men do not follow the majority of women's spectator sports there is less of a profile for the sports and even less of a reason for the women to follow women's sports.

In summary more men watch sports. More people means an interest in the sport as a "social event".

PressRun

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

A lot has changed thankfully. Such as body type, it's a lot more free now. They compete much harder stuff than they did back then so they need to be strong, pixie types aren't the be-all and end-all. Check out Simone Biles, she is triple world champion and is poised to possibly take 5 golds in Rio. Greatest gymnast ever and she is ripped.

I caught a bit of her performance at World Championships last year. Some athlete. Very powerful, but still retains the artistic aspect.

metaoblivia

Yeah, Little Girls in Pretty Boxes was written in the early 90s - gymnastics has changed quite a bit since then. The skills have gotten so difficult that the gymnasts need to have strong muscles and a little more weight on them to pull it off, especially on vault. The US women's team that won the 2015 world championships had no one on the team under 18. There's even a gymnast who'll be in Rio who is 40+ years old. Her name is Oksana Chusovitinia and she first competed in the 1992 Olympics and has competed in every Olympics since. She has a great shot at vault finals and a good shot at a medal if she can pull off her Produnova (the hardest vault in women's gymnastics).

In the US, women's gymnastics gets a lot more coverage than men's gymnastics. I'm going to the US Olympic Trials for the women in July (yes - I'll get to see Simone compete live and in person!) and that competition sold out months ago. Meanwhile, the men's trials won't even fill half the arena. College is the same. There are over 200 collegiate women's teams and a few even sell out 14,000+ arenas regularly for simple dual meets. Meanwhile, men's team have dwindled down to under 15 total and most meets are free to try and incentivize attendance. Still, no one goes.

Gymnastics is the odd sport out in this regard.

mdwexford

wakka12 wrote: »

The majority of olympics events in particular are no less impressive in the womens section really. In fact some sections seem more elegant and probably more highly anticipated such as gymnastics

I'm talking more professional regular sports here to be honest.

I said already I enjoy a lot of women's events in the olympics.

Corruptedmorals

PressRun wrote: »

I caught a bit of her performance at World Championships last year. Some athlete. Very powerful, but still retains the artistic aspect.

She's so good that she gets randomly drug tested very, very often. Yes, the beauty of her gymnastics is that she does everything perfectly whereas many powerful gymnasts traditionally fall down on execution and skills look sloppy. I have seen her in action twice ☺

Potatoeman

osarusan wrote: »

Actually it's the other way round - if the LOI had all the funding the Premier League had, it would be just as good - the players would just move to the LOI instead - as many of them now move to Russia or China or wherever will pay them a massive wage. It would still be the LOI, but all the players would be different.

But the women's league, even with a level funding that could make it the best women's league in the world, would still be at a lower level of skill, pace, and physicality, to the best men's league.

Things are changing in some sports though - the women's football world cup gets a lot of crowds and coverage these days. I think maybe we don't notice it in Ireland because the women's team is never there.

In other sports like tennis and gymnastics, the women's versions are popular in their own right.

They don't have the funding because they don't have the population or the interest to raise the funding. If the interest was there the funding would grow.

Two Tone

Hot oil wrestling, foxy boxing... and such and such.

PressRun

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Not the exactly the majority of women do not seem capable of watching a sport and enjoying it on thier own.

Men are more likely to go to spectator sports then women are. Some of these men will bring women with them and/or attract women to them. As a big social event. Because the sports men follow will mean there will be more people there so this will result in even the causal fan going to "be seen" at the big event for the atmosphere or the craic.

If women were capable of watching a sport on thier own more there would be more women following women's sports. As men do not follow the majority of women's spectator sports there is less of a profile for the sports and even less of a reason for the women to follow women's sports.

In summary more men watch sports. More people means an interest in the sport as a "social event".

It's hardly a secret that generally speaking more men watch sports than women. But women are capable of going to sporting events and enjoying it without there needing to be a man present to validate their going. I know women who are interested in sport in their own right and men who couldn't give a fiddlers and only go for the "social event". Saying that women aren't capable of watching a sport without a man being present or that women only attend sporting events because of the "atmosphere" is just plain silly, tbh. Some women do only go for the atmosphere, but not all, and so do some men.

And I don't think women not being interested in sport is the sole reason for women's sport not being popular. I don't know who you hang about with, but I know plenty of women (members of my own family being some of them) with a very keen interest in GAA who follow it throughout the year, but would mainly watch the men because it's faster, harder hitting, etc., and the men's game seems to have reached almost professional levels that the women's game hasn't. It's just a matter of what's more exciting to watch. Some sports are more exciting in the men's categories and some in the women's (as mentioned, gymnastics, though I know people who like women's athletics and tennis too). I'm not going to blame people for wanting to watch events that are going to be the most interesting/exciting/competitive/etc.

babaracus

Men have a natural physical advantage when it comes to most sports and people generally will go in greater numbers to see the very best. Hence men's sports have a bigger following. One example:

This was back in 1998 so Serena would have been only 18 but the men's 203rd ranked player beat Serena and Venus 6-1, 6-2. His preparation before the game was a couple of shandies:

http://www.theguardian.com/observer/osm/story/0,,543962,00.html

The US women's soccer team (Womens World Cup Champions) were also beaten 8-2 by the U-17 men/boys national team.

upandcumming

seamus wrote:

I'm pretty sure women watch men's sports for exactly the same reasons that men do. And a large part of it comes down to the fact that men's sports take the lion's share of the advertising and funding in a continuous feedback loop that means that men's sport is better resourced than women's.

That's not it...

suicide_circus

Women like men's sports for the same reason men do - a loada youngfellas runnin around in shorts.

CloudCumulus

In fairness I watch a lot of men's sports and never any women's. I think I would if they were broadcast as readily as the men's, but they're not.
It's not solely based on lads running around in shorts, I don't really watch that much soccer. There's no shorts involved in golf and snooker, thsnk god.
But finding a player attractive adds an impetus for me to support them. Maybe I'm just shallow!

mikeym

Im a big fan of the LFL myself

(lingerie football league)

gimmick

gimmick wrote: »

Most women don't like sports and those that pretend to do only so they can bag a man.

What women have you been hanging with? I have not met them.

In my experience - in my circles - which I would not presume to extrapolate like you have - the men around me love watching sports but hardly ever play them. The women I know spend a lot of time playing them but hardly ever watch them.

Perhaps the message is - given that our sex has more of a penchant for things like porn - we enjoy watching more than engaging?

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What women have you been hanging with? I have not met them.

In my experience - in my circles - which I would not presume to extrapolate like you have - the men around me love watching sports but hardly ever play them. The women I know spend a lot of time playing them but hardly ever watch them.

Perhaps the message is - given that our sex has more of a penchant for things like porn - we enjoy watching more than engaging?

What women have you been hanging out with? I wouldn't presume to extrapolate like you have, but in my experience, in my circles, the women I hang out with enjoy porn, and sports, just as much as I do.

Perhaps that's why we're such good friends, we have a lot in common

Yeah maybe the statistics on porn would support me more than the stats on sport support the other user. But I would be _very_ happy to be corrected otherwise _please_ correct me on this

But - I hope you will notice - my own extrapolation had a smiley at the end. I only wish HIS did.

As to OUR common ground - it does make me laugh sometimes

Jimoslimos

One eyed Jack wrote: »

What women have you been hanging out with? I wouldn't presume to extrapolate like you have, but in my experience, in my circles, the women I hang out with enjoy porn, and sports, just as much as I do.

Perhaps that's why we're such good friends, we have a lot in common

Please, for the love of god don't get him started.

Jimoslimos

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Please, for the love of god don't get him started.

Started? He has been making my point for me so well - I feel I could retire

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Started? He has been making my point for me so well - I feel I could retire

What was your point that you think I was making for you? You appeared to be saying that the men in your circles enjoy watching sports, but hardly ever play them, while the women you know spend a lot of time playing them than watching them. Then you went on to posit that "given our sex (men) have more of a penchant for things like porn - we enjoy watching more than engaging?"

I think it is about time to retire when you start offering generalisations that are as strange as the stereotypes offered in the opening post.

One eyed Jack

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I think it is about time to retire when you start offering generalisations

But I didn't

Not once.

What I offered was a statistic from which someone could make a "better" generalization.

But I never - not once ever not even if you wanted to get bored and even think about it - offered one of my own

"do keep up"

FTA69

Cain Yummy Miner wrote: »

Well I have to admit the amount of sports I'd spectate at is limited.

I don't watch any ball games, so GAA, soccer & rugby is out for me.

I follow (mostly) combat sports, and coach Judo.

I much prefer to watch women fight than men, I prefer to coach a woman too ~ they're easier, they don't pretend they already know how to fight without coaching and when they do learn they're fecking tenacious.

When women fight its almost entirely technical and very aggressive.

Give me a woman to train to fight over most men, and they're usually spectacular to watch.

My other sport (I don't compete) would be cycling, tbh I've no idea why I don't watch women cycling events ~ maybe they're not televised as much.

My missus is having her first fight tomorrow evening. I thought she'd be a pain to coach but she has committed herself totally and is soaking up things like a sponge. I know for a fact now if she keeps it up she'll fight to a higher level than me. In her show tomorrow as well I know for a fact her's will be one of the most engaging and technical.

Women fighters seem to switch off more and act in a much more methodological fashion in the ring, would watch them all day.

Joe_ Public

FTA69 wrote: »

My missus is having her first fight tomorrow evening. I thought she'd be a pain to coach but she has committed herself totally and is soaking up things like a sponge. I know for a fact now if she keeps it up she'll fight to a higher level than me. In her show tomorrow as well I know for a fact her's will be one of the most engaging and technical.

Women fighters seem to switch off more and act in a much more methodological fashion in the ring, would watch them all day.

Don't know if you're referring to boxing or not, but anybody who watched Kellie Harrington at the world championships last month will understand just how great women's boxing is to watch and how it has come on leaps and bounds in a short space of time. She is as adept and skillful as most male amateur boxers I have seen.

Hulk Hands

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Those were due to the womens final containing an American hero in Serena Williams with a largely American viewing audience. The Mens 2014 final also contained two largely unknown (to irregular viewers) foreign players in Nishikori & Cilic, which affected figures. Womens Tennis isn't anywhere near as popular as Mens generally, by any metric

Juan8

When I saw this thread I just thought of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdIpdGS9m1g

Could you blame them for laughing if we're honest

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

rainbow kirby

I follow quite a few sports, but athletics is my lifelong #1 - even went to a Diamond League meeting (in Eugene, Oregon) on my honeymoon! It's quite balanced overall gender-wise in terms of coverage.

I also went to the women's FA Cup final last year - full lower tier at Wembley, good craic.

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What I offered was a statistic from which someone could make a "better" generalization.

But I never - not once ever not even if you wanted to get bored and even think about it - offered one of my own

What statistic did you offer?

This is the generalisation I was referring to:

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Perhaps the message is - given that our sex has more of a penchant for things like porn - we enjoy watching more than engaging?

That might be a given to you, but I wouldn't take it as a given, which is why to me it appears to be based on stereotypes rather than statistics. You haven't offered any statistics, you've only offered an opinion based upon your own circles of friends?

Jimoslimos

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Those were due to the womens final containing an American hero in Serena Williams with a largely American viewing audience. The Mens 2014 final also contained two largely unknown (to irregular viewers) foreign players in Nishikori & Cilic, which affected figures. Womens Tennis isn't anywhere near as popular as Mens generally, by any metric

Regardless, the gap in popularity between mens' and womens' tennis is far less than you see in football.

Why is that? A major reason is playing both competitions (men and women) at the major Grand Slams (Aus/Fre/Wim/US) at the same time. I guarantee you'd see a similar upsurge in popularity in the womens game if the same happened at this years Euros in France.

One eyed Jack

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Then you went on to posit that "given our sex

You are almost there. You might get it yet

That sentence was offered up as a CONTRAST to the guy who said "Most women don't like sports and those that pretend to do only so they can bag a man."

The point was to make a JOKE about how "our sex" spends more time watching sport than playing it.

That it went over your head was a given from the start But I hope you appreciate the joke now

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

gormdubhgorm

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Regardless, the gap in popularity between mens' and womens' tennis is far less than you see in football.

Why is that? A major reason is playing both competitions (men and women) at the major Grand Slams (Aus/Fre/Wim/US) at the same time. I guarantee you'd see a similar upsurge in popularity in the womens game if the same happened at this years Euros in France.

Great point. You could have the women's final the day before the men's. I could see that idea working. It would be better then watching a men's 3rd/4th placed play off and the neutrals might go for the craic

Mint Aero

Cos they're shiote

mdwexford

Permabear wrote: »

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Actually almost all the biggest ppv buys of all time are heavyweight fights bar Floyd.

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

If that's the case you must not watch much football.

Permabear

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Juan8

Permabear wrote: »

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4 Floyd fights, 5 Heavyweight fights, how isn't it true?

And if there were some actual good heavyweights around these days I'm sure there'd be more fights in that top 10.

And just because a game is 4-3 doesn't make it one of the best games ever, you're entitled to your opinion fair enough, but I watched the highlights there and the quality was poor enough,

If you think that game is one of the best ever with that quality of defending you obviously don't watch much football, if the defending for the 2nd goal happened in the semis of a men's tournament I'd just shake my head in disbelief, never mind some of the defending for the others

Lyaiera

I really like the Invicta MMA. When I could commit to staying up until 6am on a Saturday/Sunday night I watched a lot of MMA. I don't know if McGregor had just signed or was just not considered ranked at the time. He was definitely starting at the bottom of the UFC.

The women's MMA was really interesting though. A totally different take on the top 10 UFC, and the lower end of the UFC. There was much better matchmaking, not always perfect but the fights were more likley to be competitive. There were a few one sided ones but generally there was some balance between the women. The competitors were of course nowhere near as skilled as the UFC top ten, which is to be expected. I enjoyed it a lot more than an average UFC night though.

Similarly, North America has had their first professional rugby competition running this year. There is a mixture of both amazing and awful. I've seen people fall off the simplest of tackles, and the next person, and another before the runner cruises in for a try. And I've seen the most intricate, passing backs moves result in huge gains on the pitch. I haven't watched many games, but the few I have have been really enjoyable.

Maybe I just have a thing for lower level sport. Sometimes you see an amazing football time like Barcelona play, and I use a football term here, they play like pure poetry. What they do is absolute joy to watch. The level of skill, and control, not just personal control, or team control, but control over the entire game even when they're playing a difficult opponent is like watching the most well oiled intelligent, emotional machine. There's nothing like it. But if I tune into two weeks of the Champions League the chances of finding a game I really enjoy, without any dedication to a particular team is low. If I tune into Invicta, or the American rugby, I'll find something charming about it.

I think a lot of sport is theoreticised, and intellectualised, where everything is calculated to cancel every opposing thing out it's not enjoyable to watch. Sometimes you get superb moments where brilliance breaks through. Often not though. I think the lower level sports can be a lot more interesting to watch, as someone who just likes watching sports.

gramar

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I witnessed the whole of Houston Station coming to a standstill to watch one of her fights they had on TV one afternoon a few years ago

Sheep mentality. Most wouldn't know a box if it hit them in the face.

whisky_galore

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I witnessed the whole of Houston Station coming to a standstill to watch one of her fights they had on TV one afternoon a few years ago

Never knew she was so popular in Texas.

Shenshen

Isn't the real question here why men watch men's sports?

Personally, I like watching football. It's 22 men running around in shorts, some of them quote handsome, and all of them with nice bodies. Brilliant entertainment.

I never understood what straight men would get out of it, though.

Butters1979

Just to jump in here, the one 'example' being thrown around of women's sport been as close to as good as the men's is tennis. It's not, it's nowhere near to the standard. because of the lower standard however, you get more rally's and the games tend to be better to watch. That's the only reason it's close to as popular. Similar to collage basketball in the states.

An old article but good example. Probably wouldn't be allowed publish that these days. not PC.

http://www.theguardian.com/observer/osm/story/0,,543962,00.html

As to the larger question, it's nothing to do with the person watching been male or female. I think anyone watching sport tends to get drawn to the highest standard in that sport. As that tends to be the men's part of that sport, people who follow that sport follow the men's.
I don't understand why women would be expected to follow a lower standard game just because they're women.

sullivlo

Butters1979 wrote: »

Just to jump in here, the one 'example' being thrown around of women's sport been as close to as good as the men's is tennis. It's not, it's nowhere near to the standard. because of the lower standard however, you get more rally's and the games tend to be better to watch. That's the only reason it's close to as popular. Similar to collage basketball in the states.

An old article but good example. Probably wouldn't be allowed publish that these days. not PC.

http://www.theguardian.com/observer/osm/story/0,,543962,00.html

As to the larger question, it's nothing to do with the person watching been male or female. I think anyone watching sport tends to get drawn to the highest standard in that sport. As that tends to be the men's part of that sport, people who follow that sport follow the men's.
I don't understand why women would be expected to follow a lower standard game just because they're women.

You could argue the same about womens rugby though. Mens rugby, by and large, has transitioned to a bish bash bosh game where men use their strength to run through people, rather than try to create space to play running rugby. Womens rugby is more creative and relies more on passing skills and good lines. Which I find more enjoyable to watch.

Butters1979

sullivlo wrote: »

You could argue the same about womens rugby though. Mens rugby, by and large, has transitioned to a bish bash bosh game where men use their strength to run through people, rather than try to create space to play running rugby. Womens rugby is more creative and relies more on passing skills and good lines. Which I find more enjoyable to watch.

Agreed, you could break why you watch which sport down into 2 parts. Which is higher lever skill, and which is best entertainment. They are not always the same thing.

smash

sullivlo wrote: »

Womens rugby is more creative and relies more on passing skills and good lines. Which I find more enjoyable to watch.

I'm a big fan of the NFL lingerie league.... Great lines!

cowboyBuilder

Ah I forgot about Katie Taylor, she pops up now and then, just as long as God sets aside some time to give her gold medals we're all happy.

"God , God ... we have another 10000 kids dying in Africa from malnutrition today alone"

- "Not now Watkins, can't you see I'm busy giving Katie Olympic Gold "

Your Face

Yes.

Something I have noticed teenagers and women who play GAA it is usually the fathers and brother who go to all the matches and are just more in to in on behalf of their daughters and siblings that the mothers( not in all cases of course ). The only thing I can think of is that it is (a) sport and (b) the competitive element and maybe that is more a male thing?

Ush1

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I'll have some of what you're smoking please.

beach_walker

I like watching Camogie but in the main I don't watch women's sports. Mainly because the skill level is below that of the male equivalent or in a lot of cases the rules have been brought down a notch. It's not the same.

robbiezero

sullivlo wrote: »

You could argue the same about womens rugby though. Mens rugby, by and large, has transitioned to a bish bash bosh game where men use their strength to run through people, rather than try to create space to play running rugby. Womens rugby is more creative and relies more on passing skills and good lines. Which I find more enjoyable to watch.

This is just class