Driving a Bangernomics across Europe?

Thargor

What would happen if you bought a banger, took it over to France and drove around Europe for a bit without bothering with Tax etc? Im guessing they know how to check Irish licences and insurance (?) but any other downsides to this? Id like to do it in something big enough to sleep in but that would probably cost me about 5 grand to tax and insure here first.

Del2005

Thargor wrote: »

What would happen if you bought a banger, took it over to France and drove around Europe for a bit without bothering with Tax etc? Im guessing they know how to check Irish licences and insurance (?) but any other downsides to this? Id like to do it in something big enough to sleep in but that would probably cost me about 5 grand to tax and insure here first.

There's no 5 grand tax rate and sleeping in a car is OK for a day or two but any longer will get uncomfortable. To answer your question they have no idea what Irish motor tax is in most EU countries, but to drive legally in an EU country you have to be road legal in your home country.

Thargor

Thanks yeah I meant tax and insurance together, do they check Irish insurance over there? In every country?

Big enough to sleep in I mean big enough for a small air matress, something where the seats fold down flat but not a van, Ive done a lot worse.

Jesus.

Is your real name Joxer?

The Sidewards Man

You better carry some key jelly or get AA cover as breaking down in France can be an eye opener.

Alanstrainor

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

You better carry some key jelly or get AA cover as breaking down in France can be an eye opener.

Care to elaborate?

OP, surely France and most European countries require cars to have insurance? I doubt you're going to be able to do it without insuring the car/van.

The Sidewards Man

Breaking down as in car stops moving. Don't be on a French motorway anyway unless you have European cover is my advice. The gendarmes will have a field day.

Thargor

Well it'll be a complete banger so walking away from the car will be an option, Im just wondering what actually happens, do you get prosecuted and points on your licence under some European system is my main worry...

Del2005

Thargor wrote: »

Thanks yeah I meant tax and insurance together, do they check Irish insurance over there? In every country?

Big enough to sleep in I mean big enough for a small air matress, something where the seats fold down flat but not a van, Ive done a lot worse.

Missed the insurance bit. Your age and NCD will affect how much insurance and if going bangers the most tax would be €1.3k for a prestigious 08 for the year, for 3 or 6 months it'll be cheaper. Yes they will check for insurance and VLC.

If you plan on doing it in the summer it'll be a nightmare even with an air mattress. I'm currently working nights and it's a killer trying to sleep in our 24C, it'll be warmer than that at night in France.

bear1

Am I reading this right or is the op seriously considering driving from Ireland to France with no tax and insurance?

Esel

Thargor wrote: »

Well it'll be a complete banger so walking away from the car will be an option, Im just wondering what actually happens, do you get prosecuted and points on your licence under some European system is my main worry...

Buy an old hearse - tax is only €88 or something like that. You could even bury a few stiffs if you got lucky...

Whatever about tax, don't even think of doing it without insurance.

Thargor

Esel wrote: »

Buy an old hearse - tax is only €88 or something like that. You could even bury a few stiffs if you got lucky...

Whatever about tax, don't even think of doing it without insurance.

What actually happens though?

bear1 wrote: »

Am I reading this right or is the op seriously considering driving from Ireland to France with no tax and insurance?

The Ireland bit wont be hard, the ferry is 10 minutes away. Not just France either, Id like to drive down to the tip of Italy sometime.

Definitely wouldnt be doing it in Summer, would wait for it to get a bit cooler.

daRobot

Thargor wrote: »

What actually happens though?

Sounds like you might find out. Hope to god you don't hit someone though, as it's something you may well regret big time.

bear1

Thargor wrote: »

What actually happens though?

The Ireland bit wont be hard, the ferry is 10 minutes away. Not just France either, Id like to drive down to the tip of Italy sometime.

Definitely wouldnt be doing it in Summer, would wait for it to get a bit cooler.

I see. Are you mad?

Esel

I think Thargor's account has been hacked.

Jesus.

Thargor wrote: »

What actually happens though?

Have you any idea what you're letting yourself in for on here when the HH Brigade come galloping in? They'll cut you to pieces man

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly

FFS. You can afford to go on a pleasure trip to Europe so perhaps you can buy this: https://www.donedeal.co.uk/cars-for-sale/02-peugeot-206-1-1-skywagon/12533780

It's taxed until August. Insure it - if you kill someone it will probably help.

bear1

Jesus. wrote: »

Have you any idea what you're letting yourself in for on here when the HH Brigade come galloping in? They'll cut you to pieces man

Hardly a brigade when someone is seriously thinking of driving around Europe with no insurance.

Jesus.

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly wrote: »

FFS. You can afford to go on a pleasure trip to Europe so perhaps you can buy this: https://www.donedeal.co.uk/cars-for-sale/02-peugeot-206-1-1-skywagon/12533780 It's taxed until August. Insure it - if you kill someone it will probably help.

Driving a 1.1 across the Continent? He'd be as well off taking a push bike

Esel

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly wrote: »

FFS. You can afford to go on a pleasure trip to Europe so perhaps you can buy this: https://www.donedeal.co.uk/cars-for-sale/02-peugeot-206-1-1-skywagon/12533780

It's taxed until August. Insure it - if you kill someone it will probably help.

New mudflaps and all. The cops will be checking them for sure.

Sh1tbag OToole

You'll probably escape without tax. You'll be able to get through France in a day if you drive on but tolls are expensive there. Expect to be paying 50-100 quid in tolls each way. You can lower the amount by driving through the Alps instead of going through a tunnel. This is the most scenic part of the journey anyway it would be silly to skip over it by going through a dark tunnel.

If you break down on a French motorway it costs something like 180 quid or 220 to have it towed (according to the signs I saw over there a couple of weeks ago). I don't know where they bring your car for that money or how much trouble you'll have getting rid of it at that point

Thargor

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly wrote: »

FFS. You can afford to go on a pleasure trip to Europe so perhaps you can buy this: https://www.donedeal.co.uk/cars-for-sale/02-peugeot-206-1-1-skywagon/12533780

It's taxed until August. Insure it - if you kill someone it will probably help.

I didnt know 1 litres even came in that size! You've got me thinking about buying that now...

Jesus.

Thargor wrote: »

I didnt know 1 litres even came in that size! You've got me thinking about buying that now...

Don't listen to Sh1tbag then and stay away from the Alps...

josip

Friend of mine keep his banger (05 350 SL) in the Balkans.
Afaik, he doesn't tax it but does keep it insured.
Keeping it insured is to get it past the local (and Macedonian/Greek/Hungarian/Croat) constabulary who don't care about tax.
I often wondered how it would go if he needed to claim though, since you're supposed to notify your Insurance company when taking it abroad and cover typically only lasts 90 days.
I suspect he'd be fcuked all ends by everyone everywhere.

Thargor

I meant as a daily driver and for camping trips in Ireland etc, Id want something bigger for Europe but anything over 1.1 is in the thousands for me.

Sh1tbag OToole

Thargor wrote: »

I didnt know 1 litres even came in that size! You've got me thinking about buying that now...

They are making different sized meters as well now. Strange times we live in

bear1

Op just fyi if you get caught in France with no insurance its a potentially max 7.5k fine and up to 6 months imprisonment.
In Italy there are reports of reaching 9k in fines but no mention of imprisonment.

Esel

Does your uncle know you are using his computer?

bear1

Thargor wrote: »

I meant as a daily driver and for camping trips in Ireland etc, Id want something bigger for Europe but anything over 1.1 is in the thousands for me.

What is into the thousands?

josip

They'll check your insurance at every border crossing, a few countries will require a green card in addition to your normal cert.
Inside the schengen there won't be any checks, at least there weren't any last summer.
It won't be a problem to sleep in a car, we camped in 35C daytime temps down through France and Italy. Night time dropped to mid 20s.
But don't expect to get a lie-in in the mornings and park in the shade if you can at all. And buy something white.

Thargor

josip wrote: »

They'll check your insurance at every border crossing, a few countries will require a green card in addition to your normal cert.
Inside the schengen there won't be any checks, at least there weren't any last summer.
It won't be a problem to sleep in a car, we camped in 35C daytime temps down through France and Italy. Night time dropped to mid 20s.
But don't expect to get a lie-in in the mornings and park in the shade if you can at all. And buy something white.

Thank you, 30 posts in to get the answer

CharlieCroker

josip wrote: »

They'll check your insurance at every border crossing, a few countries will require a green card in addition to your normal cert.
Inside the schengen there won't be any checks, at least there weren't any last summer.
It won't be a problem to sleep in a car, we camped in 35C daytime temps down through France and Italy. Night time dropped to mid 20s.
But don't expect to get a lie-in in the mornings and park in the shade if you can at all. And buy something white.

As a matter of interest, who issues the green card and what borders is it required for? By cert, do you mean VLC or insurance?

josip

CharlieCroker wrote: »

As a matter of interest, who issues the green card and what borders is it required for? By cert, do you mean VLC or insurance?

The green card you're entitled to get for free from your insurer. Give them a call. If you don't have a green card they'll make you but 3rd party insurance for as many days as you intend to spend in their country.
'They' at the moment are: Albania, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Iran, Israel, Macedonia, Moldova, Montenegro, Morocco, Russia, Tunisia, Turkey and Ukraine.
Source http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ritcOusD4XoJ:www.confused.com/on-the-road/dricing-abroad/guide-to-driving-abroad+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie&client=firefox-b

Some countries used to require an IDP (International Driving Permit) but very few do now. Not sure if any in Europe do.
Don't believe what the AA website says about IDP requirements, it's a money-making scam for them

By Cert I mean the insurance Cert, but I also bring the VLC with me.
The more official looking documents and sheets of paper you have on hand to give trouble making border officials/gendarmerie the better.
They'll eventually shrug their shoulders give you back your stuff and wave you on your way.

PS. Save yourself a few quid and there's no need to get disposable breathalysers in France. You require them according to the law, but in a wonderful quirk of Frenchness there's no punishment for not having them. That law was introduced by the Sarkozy govt whose good friend owned the only disposable breathalyser making company in France. But he got the heave ho before the law was fully enacted to include punishment. Or something like that.

You WILL need breakdown triangle, spare bulbs, first aid kits and hi viz for each occupant of the car. I don't think you'll need a fire extinguisher.
Do buy a headlight converter kit for whatever model of car you get, You'll be less likely to blind oncoming motorists and have them swerve into you.
And you'll get fewer annoyed flashes from them too.
Don't overtake anything on single carriage roads unless you have a co-pilot you trust. My advice is to only give them responsibility for an initial "ok to move out" and then you to decide once you're out whether to continue with the move. Be prepared however to have Herman/Luigi/Marko almost rear end you as you unexpectedly ease off the gas in the middle of the overtake.

gctest50

you need a RelaxCabin prius to be all eco-friendly

I slept in a Focus Estate (2001) before. Had to sleep at an angle to be comfy. It was grand, but definitely the longer the car the better. I wouldn't be fully sure I'd trust to have any level of comfort with two people in the back. If you can get a hearse I'd say you'd be doing well, in fairness. Or an estate car/jeep that was formerly an ambulance (they usually have seats etc removed for a stretcher).

If possible, also get something with a sunroof. It was relatively warm when I slept in the car, and after 20 mins of sleep I woke up and the condensation was mental. Had to open the sunroof a small bit to let some air circulate. Also, spend the €150 or so that it costs and get blackout tints on the windows. You need at least that litle bit of privacy!


As for tax and insurance - I've no idea or knowledge of these, but it seems to have been well answered above.

Esel

josip wrote:

Don't overtake anything on single carriage roads unless you have a co-pilot you trust.

Eh... no.

Del2005

josip wrote: »

They'll check your insurance at every border crossing, a few countries will require a green card in addition to your normal cert.
Inside the schengen there won't be any checks, at least there weren't any last summer.

I've traveled between Italy, France, Germany and Switzerland numerous times and never been stopped. Customs can check anyone or vehicle within 20km, or 50km can't remember the exact distance, of a boarder in the Schengen zone. So even if you get into France there's a chance you could be stopped without crossing any other boarder. With the current migrant crisis most countries are imposing boarder checks much more often.

There's no need for a green card while travelling in the EU.

Shint0

If you're driving through Switzerland, OP, you might end up with speeding fines worth more than the car :P

Boskowski

Just as an FYI. Very few countries have an approach to not insured that is as lenient as Ireland. In most European countries you may sctually go to prison for that. And that's when nothing goes wrong.
Something I totally agree with btw as clearly people can not be trusted to behave like responsible adults.

If you go through with it I hope you get caught and they'll throw the book at you. And anyone who thinks this is 'high horse' talk is clearly mentally unfit to drive a vehicle too.

Jesus.

Oh boy

Shint0

Del2005 wrote: »

So even if you get into France there's a chance you could be stopped without crossing any other boarder. With the current migrant crisis most countries are imposing boarder checks much more often.

I drove through Germany, Switzerland and Italy in the last few weeks. There was only one border check coming from Switzerland into Italy just yesterday. We are driving a German reg vehicle. There was just a quick glance at the reg plate and I was beckoned on. Not sure if we would have been stopped if I had been driving my own Irish reg car.

Boskowski

There are a lot of things we can safely be rather cavalier about. No problem. But one can do a lot of damage with a 2 ton vehicle. That's why insurance is compulsory in the first place. It's not just a silly regulation. It's all fun until something happens and then the OP clearly expects someone else to clean up their mess after them. Charming.

Sorry whichever way I look at it my opinion remains the same. That's what makes us responsible adults. The ability to separate between things that are 'grand sure' and things that aren't. No insurance is the latter.

josip

Would an old Leaf EV work for you economically Op? You could use your fuel cost savings to be taxed and insured and get a 3 man dome that you can sleep in? I get the impression that you won't be pushed to cover big distances in any particular day.

bear1

Thargor wrote: »

Thank you, 30 posts in to get the answer

You should have the cop on to figure it yourself tbh.
Consider yourself royally screwed if you are caught or crashed.
How do you intend to pay if you crash?

bonzodog2

josip wrote: »

You WILL need breakdown triangle, spare bulbs, first aid kits and hi viz for each occupant of the car. I don't think you'll need a fire extinguisher. .

May not apply to the OP, but IIRC in France, if you need glasses to drive, you should have a spare pair.

Jesus.

bonzodog2 wrote: »

May not apply to the OP, but IIRC in France, if you need glasses to drive, you should have a spare pair.

The guy's going off with a banger and no tax or insurance. I doubt he'll bother with the spare set of glasses

CiniO

Boskowski wrote: »

Just as an FYI. Very few countries have an approach to not insured that is as lenient as Ireland. In most European countries you may sctually go to prison for that. And that's when nothing goes wrong.

And for that very reason, chances of being asked for insurance cert as fairly slim.
They automatically assume that insurance is valid.
That's even what europe.eu site says somewhere, that in international traffic within EU, fact that vehicle has valid number plate is enough proof that it has valid insurance.
And it actually in most cases is sufficient, as vast majority of EU countries take care of insurance from administrative approach, making it impossible to have a car registered and not having insurance on it.


BTW - I'm absolutely not encouraging OP to drive without insurance. That would be very silly thing to do.
I'm only saying that chances of being asked for insurance cert are slim.
In case of accident without insurance though, OP would most likely end up in jail, and in case of big claim could need to sell his house, or keep repaying for next number of years.

Jesus.

CiniO wrote: »

In case of accident without insurance though, OP would most likely end up in jail, and in case of big claim could need to sell his house, or keep repaying for next number of years.

Would that only apply if he was at fault Cinio?

Voodoomelon

josip wrote: »

The green card you're entitled to get for free from your insurer. Give them a call. If you don't have a green card they'll make you but 3rd party insurance for as many days as you intend to spend in their country.
'They' at the moment are: Albania, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Iran, Israel, Macedonia, Moldova, Montenegro, Morocco, Russia, Tunisia, Turkey and Ukraine.
Source http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ritcOusD4XoJ:www.confused.com/on-the-road/dricing-abroad/guide-to-driving-abroad+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie&client=firefox-b

Some countries used to require an IDP (International Driving Permit) but very few do now. Not sure if any in Europe do.
Don't believe what the AA website says about IDP requirements, it's a money-making scam for them

By Cert I mean the insurance Cert, but I also bring the VLC with me.
The more official looking documents and sheets of paper you have on hand to give trouble making border officials/gendarmerie the better.
They'll eventually shrug their shoulders give you back your stuff and wave you on your way.

PS. Save yourself a few quid and there's no need to get disposable breathalysers in France. You require them according to the law, but in a wonderful quirk of Frenchness there's no punishment for not having them. That law was introduced by the Sarkozy govt whose good friend owned the only disposable breathalyser making company in France. But he got the heave ho before the law was fully enacted to include punishment. Or something like that.

You WILL need breakdown triangle, spare bulbs, first aid kits and hi viz for each occupant of the car. I don't think you'll need a fire extinguisher.
Do buy a headlight converter kit for whatever model of car you get, You'll be less likely to blind oncoming motorists and have them swerve into you.
And you'll get fewer annoyed flashes from them too.
Don't overtake anything on single carriage roads unless you have a co-pilot you trust. My advice is to only give them responsibility for an initial "ok to move out" and then you to decide once you're out whether to continue with the move. Be prepared however to have Herman/Luigi/Marko almost rear end you as you unexpectedly ease off the gas in the middle of the overtake.

Question, are headlight deflectors required by law in France for right hand drive vehicles? I can convert my headlights with the flick of a lever for this very purpose, is that sufficient for French police?

josip

It's a good idea to have a working dashcam when driving in any country where you're not fluent in the local language and/or familiar with the local rules of the road.

A dashcam is not a substitute for valid insurance btw.

gillen

save yourself the hassle and just rent a car