Rock n' Roll Half Marathon - Dublin - August 7th, 2016

RayCun

conavitzky wrote: »

Agreed. I had my projected time as 1:21 on my entry and was told I had to go in corral 10 even though all my clubmates with similar times were in corral 1. Was told my chip wouldn't register and I wouldn't get a time. Told them I was willing to take that risk as there was national team medals up for grabs and we missed out on bronze by 30 seconds last year. Why was I put in corral 10 in first place. AAI needs to take ownership of the national half back in my opinion.

that is crazy, it should be a single start for the championship runners

dublin runner

RayCun wrote:

On the other hand, the standard is lower in this race. Maybe the better runners are avoiding it.

Well that is most certainly the case.

Take me as an example. I am an average club athlete who will not touch this race. I don't know many who did either. I enjoyed the first year (good course/city centre finish) but the new course is appalling. I am travelling to Charleville, which a 500km roundtrip. Why? Better standard and course. It's a real shame the National Half has gone the route it has. I can't see it changing anytime soon either.

Myles Splitz

conavitzky wrote: »

I'm having a hard time understanding "the welfare of its members". It's more popular than previous races, and it is not unsafe. AAI makes money from this that goes back to the development of the sport, when the race used to be a burden on the host club.

I think it is more a comment on the Dublin centric approach to AAI overall and the fatigue of travel needed by people outside of Dublin to support AAI Championship races

Look at Championships held in Dublin

Leinster 10 mile
National Road Relays
Great Ireland Run
National Seniors Track
National Half Marathon Champions
National Marathon Championship
National Interclubs XC

Majority of people doing RnR would have no idea it was a championship race only for the fact they are getting discounted into the race.

Personally I would like to see the addition of a few Road Race Championship distances spread throughout the country and incorporated into well established races

Ballycotton 10 - National 10 mile Championship
Armagh 5k - National 5k Road Championship
Tullamore/Athlone/Charleville - National Half

I would imagine there would be no change in the amount running the RnR but could still encourage a few more from around the country to target some of these races as championship/PB opportunities.

I get Ray's point on the benefits of increasing participation but growth in the sport needs to be looked at more dynamically than simply capitalizing from a monetary sense.

RayCun

dublin runner wrote: »

Take me as an example. I am an average club athlete who will not touch this race. I don't know many who did either. I enjoyed the first year (good course/city centre finish) but the new course is appalling. I am travelling to Charleville, which a 500km roundtrip. Why? Better standard and course.

Better standard because the faster runners are going there, and they are going there... because it is faster. What would Ronnie Delany say?

RayCun

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Ballycotton 10 - National 10 mile Championship
Armagh 5k - National 5k Road Championship

That's a good idea, there are provincial championships at those distances so why not nationals?

Limerick can host the national not-quite-10k championships :pac:

Krusty_Clown

RayCun wrote: »

I had a look back at the results, in 2009, 2010, there were under 200 people running the national half. Sunday there was about 1000 in the championship, and 6000 more in the race.

Clearly, a lot of people are happier to travel to Dublin and start at 8.30 than to go to Athenry or Ballybofey.

Firstly, thanks for the cup of water. Much appreciated!

Secondly, as someone who has traveled to Athenry and Waterford for the national half marathon, competed in most of the half marathon races in this country at some time or other, and now rather reluctantly, the R&R, my own view would be that both of these other races provide something that far greater approximates a championship race experience than the R&R. I should hasten to add that the R&R was perfect for what it was - a mass-participation novelty race, but is less than optimal for a championship club race. If someone was to suggest that the national senior XC final was to be taken over by US corporation that would position bands at various points along the point to point route, that offered little opportunity for club supporters to spectate - which resulted in zero atmosphere, where 80% of the participants are not in the same competition, there would be uproar (though the event shirt and participant bling would likely soften the blow).

Having competed in the event I have to admit, there's nothing wrong with it as a standalone event - but national champs should be different. It should get the blood coursing through the veins. It should be an old-school club versus club, runner versus runner, 'race until you bleed' type of experience, rather than inflatable musical instruments, face makeup and pink tutus. I probably need to repeat - there's nothing wrong with these things and are perfectly acceptable within the guise of the Rock 'n' Roll Half marathon, but they shouldn't be part of a national champs event.

The standards have also greatly dis-improved. In 2012 in Athenry, I didn't manage to break into the top 50. That same finish time from 2012 would have seen me in 28th position on Sunday. In 2011 in Waterford, I didn't finish in the top 100. In 2016? I'd have been in the top 45. If there are any goals for holding these national champs events they should be:
1) Improving standards for the specific distance/event
2) Providing a competitive championship experience
3) And yes, also focused on increasing participation numbers (not just from Dublin participants).

I registered myself through the R&R AAI link and had no problems with corrals.

Myles Splitz

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Having competed in the event I have to admit, there's nothing wrong with it as a standalone event - but national champs should be different.

Completely Agree with this having been in Athenry myself and done the RnR twice I never had an issue with the organisation for what it was but I could never warrant targetting this as a goal race in it's current guise.

dublin runner

Just wait until they offer the full marathon in the next few years!

This Fat Girl Runs

This discussion comes up every year.

Is there anything anyone can actually do to get it changed?

Firedance

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

This discussion comes up every year.

Is there anything anyone can actually do to get it changed?

I may be completely wrong but I'd imagine the issue there is that it would need a club to take over its organization once again and, I'd imagine there's reluctance (with good reason, it's a massive undertaking). So, while club members would prefer the race to be organised by someone else, clubs themselves would struggle to undertake that responsibility. Having run this last year it bears no resemblance to XC champs or any of the Meath Championship races I've taken part in.

+1 to everything Krusty said. I don't have any solution to offer though. I can understand why the AAI piggyback on RNR, it's the easy option for them.

RayCun

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

This discussion comes up every year.

Is there anything anyone can actually do to get it changed?

Put a motion in to Athletics Ireland congress. You can't do it as an individual (I think), but your club or county board could submit it. I guess it would have more chance of success if it was submitted by several clubs/boards together.

There's a standing competitions committee, and a finance committee, both could be contacted in the meantime
http://www.athleticsireland.ie/news/georgina-drumm-elected-as-new-president-at-congress/
and when people are running for election, this could be one of the things they are asked about.

Could be something like "where possible, national championships will be run in tandem with club-run races rather than commercial organisers, and rotate around the country", or just "the national half marathon championships will be held in Charleville, in tandem with the existing race" (assuming that race's organisers are up for it)

Krusty_Clown

RayCun wrote: »

Put a motion in to Athletics Ireland congress. You can't do it as an individual (I think), but your club or county board could submit it. I guess it would have more chance of success if it was submitted by several clubs/boards together.

There's a standing competitions committee, and a finance committee, both could be contacted in the meantime
http://www.athleticsireland.ie/news/georgina-drumm-elected-as-new-president-at-congress/
and when people are running for election, this could be one of the things they are asked about.

Could be something like "where possible, national championships will be run in tandem with club-run races rather than commercial organisers, and rotate around the country", or just "the national half marathon championships will be held in Charleville, in tandem with the existing race" (assuming that race's organisers are up for it)

Go away with your......practical suggestions....
We're just complaining... We're not going to do anything that would require any actual effort.

This Fat Girl Runs

RayCun wrote: »

Put a motion in to Athletics Ireland congress. You can't do it as an individual (I think), but your club or county board could submit it. I guess it would have more chance of success if it was submitted by several clubs/boards together.

There's a standing competitions committee, and a finance committee, both could be contacted in the meantime
http://www.athleticsireland.ie/news/georgina-drumm-elected-as-new-president-at-congress/
and when people are running for election, this could be one of the things they are asked about.

Could be something like "where possible, national championships will be run in tandem with club-run races rather than commercial organisers, and rotate around the country", or just "the national half marathon championships will be held in Charleville, in tandem with the existing race" (assuming that race's organisers are up for it)

Thanks for that. Sounds reasonable enough. With all the...discussion... about it from year to year, I was just curious to know if there was an actual solution. Looks like there is. Hopefully someone will take it and run with it. :pac:

overpronator

I would actually love an explanation for the corral business. I entered through AAI and put my finish time down as 1.25 i think, ended up in Corall 11. I was only doing it as a session so changed my bib on registration and opted out of the national champs. Very odd and ramshackle.

scheister

overpronator wrote: »

I would actually love an explanation for the corral business. I entered through AAI and put my finish time down as 1.25 i think, ended up in Corall 11. I was only doing it as a session so changed my bib on registration and opted out of the national champs. Very odd and ramshackle.

Yea corrells were all over the shop. I was looking at a 1.45 time and was in correll 20 a friend was looking to run a 1:59 and was in correl 6

What was the prize fund for this race with it being a commercial event?

I know the 3rd place finisher in the 10K got a free entry to next year :rolleyes:

RayCun

Exactly wrote: »

What was the prize fund for this race with it being a commercial event?

I know the 3rd place finisher in the 10K got a free entry to next year :rolleyes:

don't know, but I found this from the first year
https://corkrunning.blogspot.ie/2013/08/should-rock-n-roll-half-marathon-in.html
said there was a total prize fund of 2000 for 8 prizes (first three and a 100 euro first overseas prize)

dublin runner

Exactly wrote:

I know the 3rd place finisher in the 10K got a free entry to next year

Please tell me that's a joke.

dublin runner

dublin runner wrote: »

Please tell me that's a joke.

No absolutely not.

KJ

scheister wrote: »

Yea corrells were all over the shop. I was looking at a 1.45 time and was in correll 20 a friend was looking to run a 1:59 and was in correl 6

Mine was correct. I put down 1.45 and was in Corral 3. It seems mostly AAI members were the worst affected.

dublin runner

Exactly wrote:

No absolutely not.

Well that says it all really, not that I am one bit surprised.

A race to the bottom.......a 'prize' that is essentially free from the organisers. Classy.

Krusty_Clown

http://www.runrocknroll.com/dublin/the-races/general-info/

HALF MARATHON
The top 3 male and female Irish runners will receive:
1st €500
2nd €300
3rd €100

Overseas prize money
1st Sub 67 min male €100
1st Sub 77 min female €100

So by my reckoning, they handed out: €1,600 in prizes (no overseas prize money), and the overall male winner didn't get anything (unless they handed out some form of discretionary prize). We shouldn't be greedy. €1,600 isn't bad, when you consider they only pocketed in the region of €175,000 minus expenses. We shouldn't overlook the bling (though I must confess to recycling my bling once I got home).

dublin runner

Krusty_Clown wrote:

Overseas prize money 1st Sub 67 min male €100 1st Sub 77 min female €100

My God! Easier ways to earn 100 euro than run a sub 67 on that course. Makes sense looking at the results. Shame because they got some very good athletes over a year or two ago (Scott Overall I think etc.)

UM1

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

http://www.runrocknroll.com/dublin/the-races/general-info/

HALF MARATHON
The top 3 male and female Irish runners will receive:
1st €500
2nd €300
3rd €100

Overseas prize money
1st Sub 67 min male €100
1st Sub 77 min female €100

So by my reckoning, they handed out: €1,600 in prizes (no overseas prize money), and the overall male winner didn't get anything (unless they handed out some form of discretionary prize). We shouldn't be greedy. €1,600 isn't bad, when you consider they only pocketed in the region of €175,000 minus expenses. We shouldn't overlook the bling (though I must confess to recycling my bling once I got home).

Not even a gym.membership..fock sake

Bugsy2000

RayCun wrote: »

Put a motion in to Athletics Ireland congress. You can't do it as an individual (I think), but your club or county board could submit it. I guess it would have more chance of success if it was submitted by several clubs/boards together.

There's a standing competitions committee, and a finance committee, both could be contacted in the meantime
http://www.athleticsireland.ie/news/georgina-drumm-elected-as-new-president-at-congress/
and when people are running for election, this could be one of the things they are asked about.

Could be something like "where possible, national championships will be run in tandem with club-run races rather than commercial organisers, and rotate around the country", or just "the national half marathon championships will be held in Charleville, in tandem with the existing race" (assuming that race's organisers are up for it)

I'm fairly sure a motion was put forward at last years congress which requested that all National Champs (bar the marathon) be rotated around the country on a yearly basis via clubs hosting them, as previously happened. It was defeated.

I'm also fairly sure that RNR was one of the reasons it was put forward.

RayCun

Bugsy2000 wrote: »

I'm fairly sure a motion was put forward at last years congress which requested that all National Champs (bar the marathon) be rotated around the country on a yearly basis via clubs hosting them, as previously happened. It was defeated.

I'm also fairly sure that RNR was one of the reasons it was put forward.

There was a motion in 2014

36. THAT: the venues for all National Championships shall rotate around the Provinces, with the sole exception of the National Marathon.

Minutes say it was withdrawn rather than defeated.
All national championships would be a problem - as well as the marathon and half there's the 10k, the road relays, the track and field champs, the juvenile and masters track and field champs (always in Tullamore), the indoor championships...