Used car issue

Tweeter

Hi All,

I purchased a used 2009 Saab 9-3 from a dealer in March (lovely car by the way). The car was sold as fully serviced and the warranty was for 3 months covering engine and gearbox only. The engine light came on the other day, so brought it back to the dealer. Turns out there is a valve sticking which they are going to replace for me tomorrow, happy days.

Another issue I had is that the rear pads starting making noises on braking and I took the wheel off to discover that the pads were completely worn and were back to bare metal and beginning to damage the disks. I mentioned this to the dealer when I had the car back with him for the engine light issue, however he couldn't have been less interested. He consistently kept telling me that they don't get involved with anything like that, engine and gearbox issues only. I said fair enough, I appreciate that the warranty covers engine and gearbox only, however I pointed out to him that the car was sold fully serviced, and that it's not possible for the pads to be worn to the metal less than 1500 miles after a full service. He still wasn't interested and kept spouting the line, we don't get involved with anything like that. I didn't even get to tell him that the air conditioning doesn't work.

Needless to say I'm not happy. Any advice on how I should proceed?

regards,
Mark.

SmartinMartin

Yes. They're consumables, buy a set of pads and fit them.

Tweeter

SmartinMartin wrote: »

Yes. They're consumables, buy a set of pads and fit them.

So you'd be happy enough after paying for a full service to have your pads back to bare metal and damaging the disks less than 1500 miles later?

SmartinMartin

I wouldn't expect a dealer to stand over a consumable. It's €25 ffs, do it yourself and keep the good will of the dealer to sort out the air con instead.

Tweeter

SmartinMartin wrote: »

I wouldn't expect a dealer to stand over a consumable. It's €25 ffs, do it yourself and keep the good will of the dealer to sort out the air con instead.

You're completely missing the point. After a full service, if the pads won't last until the next service, normal procedure is to be told that the pads need replacing after X amount of miles. It's not about the €25, can't you see that?

And if you re-read the OP then you'll see that I didn't get as far as telling him that the air con doesn't work.

SmartinMartin

I'm not missing any point. Brake pads are consumable items, same as tyres. You put 1500 miles on them. Would you expect the dealer to replace the tyres if they had dropped below the wear mark in the meantime?
With regard to the air con, I know you didn't, I suggested that you replace the pads yourself and try to get him to fix the air con instead.

shietpilot

Tweeter wrote: »

You're completely missing the point. After a full service, if the pads won't last until the next service, normal procedure is to be told that the pads need replacing after X amount of miles. It's not about the €25, can't you see that?

And if you re-read the OP then you'll see that I didn't get as far as telling him that the air con doesn't work.

A full service is just that - a service. I don't see how this is relevant. Brake pads have wear indicators which start to make noises when you brake to allow you to know that you need brake pads changed. You're getting noises now so you should change them.

Tweeter

shietpilot wrote: »

A full service is just that - a service. I don't see how this is relevant. Brake pads have wear indicators which start to make noises when you brake to allow you to know that you need brake pads changed. You're getting noises now so you should change them.

So you don't think that whoever done the service, should have decided to replace the worn pads then?

bazz26

Did the dealer tell you that the brake pads would be changed as part of the service? Were they checked when you collected the car?

Needs Must

Pads wouldn't be included in a service. Your expectations are too high in this case. He honoured the valve issue.

Tweeter

bazz26 wrote: »

Did the dealer tell you that the brake pads would be changed as part of the service? Were they checked when you collected the car?

The pads are serviceable parts, why would he tell me that they'd be changed as part of the service? Same as he didn't tell me that the oil was changed or the air filter was changed as part of the service, yet I assume they were.

I didn't take the wheels off when I collected the car to check the pads, no.

Tweeter

Needs Must wrote: »

Pads wouldn't be included in a service. Your expectations are too high in this case. He honoured the valve issue.

Let's assume you're correct, why wasn't I at least warned that there was only a 1000 miles left on the pads?

omb0wyn5ehpij9

Tweeter wrote: »

Let's assume you're correct, why wasn't I at least warned that there was only a 1000 miles left on the pads?

What a ridiculous comment. Should the dealer also tell you that you only have 100 miles left in the tank and to make sure you put petrol in? :rolleyes:

Needs Must

Tweeter wrote:

Let's assume you're correct, why wasn't I at least warned that there was only a 1000 miles left on the pads?

You could go back to him with this point and also bring up the issue of the air con. Given that he has fixed the valve complaint, I think you would be doing extremely well if he agreed to go 50-50 on them.

Tweeter

BDJW wrote: »

What a ridiculous comment. Should the dealer also tell you that you only have 100 miles left in the tank and to make sure you put petrol in? :rolleyes:

You're right, I really don't know why anyone would get their car serviced. Just wait until something breaks

endacl

I bought a used car once. Not everything was perfect. That's the thing with used cars, I suppose. I fixed them.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

Tweeter wrote: »

You're right, I really don't know why anyone would get their car serviced. Just wait until something breaks

Another ridiculous comment. However, if you want to wait til something breaks before worrying about maintaining your car, be my guest.

You have completely missed my point. And everybody else's it seems. It is your car, it is up to you to keep an eye on it and make sure all these things are working correctly. Don't expect a dealer to hold your hand about consumable goods

Tweeter

Needs Must wrote: »

You could go back to him with this point and also bring up the issue of the air con. Given that he has fixed the valve complaint, I think you would be doing extremely well if he agreed to go 50-50 on them.

Thanks for the input, I think I'd be wasting my breath at this stage. I was just interested in others thoughts on it really. Pretty much everyone is siding with the dealer here.

I have a new air con condenser ordered, and my mechanic is lined up to replace the pads. But like I said, it was the principle not the €20 pads that I took issue with.

Tweeter

BDJW wrote: »

Another ridiculous comment. However, if you want to wait til something breaks before worrying about maintaining your car, be my guest.

You have completely missed my point. And everybody else's it seems. It is your car, it is up to you to keep an eye on it and make sure all these things are working correctly. Don't expect a dealer to hold your hand about consumable goods

The car was sold to me fully serviced. I'll repeat that, fully serviced. Sticker in the window to confirm service was done at X miles.
When you get your car fully serviced and the pads are down to the metal 1000 miles later, you'd be disgusted that the garage didn't warn you that they'd need changing. It's normal practice if brakes aren't going to make it to the next service to be told that.

bazz26

Tweeter wrote: »

The pads are serviceable parts, why would he tell me that they'd be changed as part of the service? Same as he didn't tell me that the oil was changed or the air filter was changed as part of the service, yet I assume they were.

I didn't take the wheels off when I collected the car to check the pads, no.

You don't automatically change pads every time you get a full or intermediary service. They are only changed if they are worn. And you don't need to remove wheels to check the thickness of brake pads.

Obviously the dealer didn't change the pads which is neither here nor there now but the time to insist on them being changed was back in March when you were buying the car. You assumed they were but they weren't. The reality is that a full service has a wide and varying interpretation and some dealers are better than others when it comes to these things.

A lesson to learn here is never assume anything and check these things yourself or have a mechanic check before handing over money. This dealer didn't change the pads but almost 3 months later there is very little you can do about it other than have them replaced yourself.

Tweeter

bazz26 wrote: »

A lesson to learn here is never assume anything and check these things yourself or have a mechanic check before handing over money. This dealer didn't change the pads but almost 3 months later there is very little you can do about it other than have them replaced yourself.

I hear you, hard lesson for me indeed. It's sad that you can't actually accept a car dealers word and have to check everything yourself.

My concern here is the bigger picture. Was the car serviced at all? Timing belt was changed according to the dealer, or was it?

denismc

To be fair to the dealer you can't always tell how long a set of pads will last, a lot depends on driving style.
I had my original front break pads replaced at 115,000 miles, my wife replaced hers at 45,000 miles. Like others have said the dealer will only replace pads if asked to do so.
So your 1000 miles maybe 3000 for someone else.
I think you need to learn a little more about car servicing and mechanics before attacking your mechanic.

naughtysmurf

I would have expected the dealer when concluding a substantial enough sale to a least have mentioned that the brakes needed to be done in the near future especially as a full service should include an inspection of the pads, drop it back into us in a month and we will do them for you at a good price kind of thing, a mechanic I use would always tell me if the pads needed to be done before the next service, it's good business practice really & because he didn't I'd be suspicious of the quality of service the car got tbh

Tweeter

naughtysmurf wrote: »

I would have expected the dealer when concluding a substantial enough sale to a least have mentioned that the brakes needed to be done in the near future especially as a full service should include an inspection of the pads, drop it back into us in a month and we will do them for you at a good price kind of thing, a mechanic I use would always tell me if the pads needed to be done before the next service, it's good business practice really & because he didn't I'd be suspicious of the quality of service the car got tbh

Well said, it's a pity no one else around here understands this.

Tweeter

denismc wrote: »

To be fair to the dealer you can't always tell how long a set of pads will last, a lot depends on driving style.
I had my original front break pads replaced at 115,000 miles, my wife replaced hers at 45,000 miles. Like others have said the dealer will only replace pads if asked to do so.
So your 1000 miles maybe 3000 for someone else.
I think you need to learn a little more about car servicing and mechanics before attacking your mechanic.

Just to correct you, I don't need to understand car servicing a little more, I'm more than well aware of what and what isn't covered.

Checking the brakes are part of a service. The mechanic not telling you that the brakes won't make it to the next service is inexcusable.

What was he thinking. There's hardly any meat left on those pads, but do you know what, I'm not going to bother telling the customer that, I'll let him find out himself when the metal starts grinding

biko

Yeah mech should have said pads needed replacing. Maybe they will apologise for it, or not.
It's in the past now, get new pads and happy motoring.

Henry Ford III

Be thankful that it's a cheap fix O.P.

I'm hoping you checked the car's service history independently before you bought it.

Tweeter

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Be thankful that it's a cheap fix O.P.

I'm hoping you checked the car's service history independently before you bought it.

Don't get me wrong, I am thankful it's a cheap fix.

It's the principle of the matter. I would expect more from a dealer. I specifically went to a dealer (and not bought privately) for this very reason.

Alanstrainor

Every car sold in this country has just had "a full service". It's a nonsense term, usually means they've changed the oil, or maybe they've just topped it up... it's frustrating and annoying but unless you ask what that means you just will not know. I'd say the pads were well worn when it was bought in March, rear pads tend to take an age to wear in most cars, and would have been getting on, but I don't see the huge issue here. They didn't mention it, you didn't mention it at the time so they didn't change them.

I'd imagine the work they're doing now is pretty extensive if it's a valve in the cylinder head that they're replacing, so they seem to be upholding their side of the deal. The brakes just aren't covered.

Tweeter

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Every car sold in this country has just had "a full service". It's a nonsense term, usually means they've changed the oil, or maybe they've just topped it up... it's frustrating and annoying but unless you ask what that means you just will not know. I'd say the pads were well worn when it was bought in March, rear pads tend to take an age to wear in most cars, and would have been getting on, but I don't see the huge issue here. They didn't mention it, you didn't mention it at the time so they didn't change them.

I'd imagine the work they're doing now is pretty extensive if it's a valve in the cylinder head that they're replacing, so they seem to be upholding their side of the deal. The brakes just aren't covered.

Agreed, it sure is frustrating and annoying. All he had to do was warn me they needed changing and I would have had it done.

The mechanic said the valve is a cheap part and won't take long to fit, and I am grateful they're looking after it. It's under warranty so I certainly expected them to.

unkel

Tweeter wrote: »

All he had to do was warn me they needed changing and I would have had it done.

What this thread boils down to is this: there's a difference between a full service done by your mechanic and a full service done before you buy the car

In case of he former, your mechanic will warn you that the pads are nearly worn and will need replacing soon. In the latter, they won't and you can't really expect them to. They are trying to sell you a car and their business is to make money on the sale.

The way of the world I'm afraid...

Pkiernan

Tweeter wrote: »

The car was sold to me fully serviced. I'll repeat that, fully serviced. Sticker in the window to confirm service was done at X miles.
When you get your car fully serviced and the pads are down to the metal 1000 miles later, you'd be disgusted that the garage didn't warn you that they'd need changing. It's normal practice if brakes aren't going to make it to the next service to be told that.

What makes you think that a service include brake pads ffs?

Just let it go.

Tweeter

unkel wrote: »

What this thread boils down to is this: there's a difference between a full service done by your mechanic and a full service done before you buy the car

In case of he former, your mechanic will warn you that the pads are nearly worn and will need replacing soon. In the latter, they won't and you can't really expect them to. They are trying to sell you a car and their business is to make money on the sale.

The way of the world I'm afraid...

That sums it up nicely thanks.

I was way to naïve here. I actually took the dealers word for it. They don't get their reputation for nothing I suppose

ironclaw

There is probably money in an 'assured service' scheme for used cars similar to the 'multipoint checks' that I think Nissan cart around. I've seen full service mean anything from an oil top up to a complete timing chain replacement at the interval. You should ask for a step by step run down of what was done, with receipts or part lists to prove.

Tweeter

ironclaw wrote: »

There is probably money in an 'assured service' scheme for used cars similar to the 'multipoint checks' that I think Nissan cart around. I've seen full service mean anything from an oil top up to a complete timing chain replacement at the interval. You should ask for a step by step run down of what was done, with receipts or part lists to prove.

You're right, however I'm sure that 3 months on there's no point in asking for proof of what was done in their version of a full service.

Safest thing for me is to have my own full service done, that's the only way to be sure about it. I just didn't need that expense so soon after purchasing having been assured it was done.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Tweeter wrote: »

The pads are serviceable parts, why would he tell me that they'd be changed as part of the service? Same as he didn't tell me that the oil was changed or the air filter was changed as part of the service, yet I assume they were.

I didn't take the wheels off when I collected the car to check the pads, no.

Pads are changed when they're worn not at a set interval like a oil change. If the brakes were working and not making any noises when braking then why would anyone bother looking at them. They're your responsibility, change them and forget about it.

SmartinMartin

Poster goes on internet affronted on some non-issue and asks for opinions.
Poster gets opinions from internet not agreeing with his.
Poster gets more affronted and argues with internet.

Welcome to internet.

Henry Ford III

Pads cost €30 maybe.

Cost of this internet discussion must run into hundreds at this point.

bucketybuck

3 months ago the pads were perfctly serviceable. After 3 months driving they now need replacement. Sounds very straightforward yet somehow this means the dealer did something wrong.

Unfortunately this is typical of the attitude of many motorists in this country.

CarrickMcJoe

Tweeter wrote: »

Let's assume you're correct, why wasn't I at least warned that there was only a 1000 miles left on the pads?

BDJW wrote: »

What a ridiculous comment. Should the dealer also tell you that you only have 100 miles left in the tank and to make sure you put petrol in? :rolleyes:

Had my car serviced recently and yes, the mechanic told me I will need pads in about 6 months, as for the tank, theres a gauge for that..

omb0wyn5ehpij9

CarrickMcJoe wrote: »

Had my car serviced recently and yes, the mechanic told me I will need pads in about 6 months, as for the tank, theres a gauge for that..

Answer is right there. Unkel summed up the best.

unkel wrote: »

What this thread boils down to is this: there's a difference between a full service done by your mechanic and a full service done before you buy the car

In case of he former, your mechanic will warn you that the pads are nearly worn and will need replacing soon. In the latter, they won't and you can't really expect them to. They are trying to sell you a car and their business is to make money on the sale.

The way of the world I'm afraid...

Another good point:

bucketybuck wrote: »

3 months ago the pads were perfctly serviceable. After 3 months driving they now need replacement. Sounds very straightforward yet somehow this means the dealer did something wrong.

Unfortunately this is typical of the attitude of many motorists in this country.

And another one:

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Pads are changed when they're worn not at a set interval like a oil change. If the brakes were working and not making any noises when braking then why would anyone bother looking at them. They're your responsibility, change them and forget about it.

The majority of the responses aren't agreeing with the OPs opinion. That should tell him all he needs to know

shietpilot

Tweeter wrote: »

So you don't think that whoever done the service, should have decided to replace the worn pads then?

If they were not making noise at the time the mechanic took it in for a service, there would be no reason to replace them. That's what the brake wear indicators are for, to let the driver know. Now the pads are making noise so you know, so why blame the mechanic for not fixing a fault that wasn't present when he had the car?

I am sure there is still at least a millimetre of brake material left anyway and they are not down to bare metal like you said in the OP.

The J Stands for Jay

If you buy a used car, the first thing you do is get it serviced, even if you're told it's just been done. If while you're doing it, it looks like the dealer had actually serviced you have reassured yourself that you didn't buy it from a cowboy. If if hadn't been done, you have reassured yourself that it's been sorted now.

my3cents

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Pads are changed when they're worn not at a set interval like a oil change. If the brakes were working and not making any noises when braking then why would anyone bother looking at them. They're your responsibility, change them and forget about it.

Can't agree with that at all. Pads are changed when they reach a minimum thickness at a service. All services should include an inspection of the pad depth - it only takes a quick glance. When the minimum is spotted at a service the pads should be replaced. The point of the minimum is that in normal circumstances any pads over the minimum should last until the next service.

One reason you don't wait until your brakes start making a noise is that you don't want to be running metal on metal and have to replace your discs every time you change the pads.

bucketybuck

my3cents wrote: »

The point of the minimum is that in normal circumstances any pads over the minimum should last until the next service.

This is simply not true, and its dangerous to tell people that it is.

goochy

op I see where you are coming from but assume you bought from a used car dealer ? if so this is how they operate . hopefully you got car at keen price and can move on.
people don't like main dealers prices but its really only at main dealers or VERY GOOD used dealers that they will look after things that aren't written in black and white when you bought car.

ofcork

If the car was in for a service at the same dealer id say they wouldnt be long telling him the pads were worn.

squeekyduck

What does the service book say they did for a service? I bet it only stated oil and filter, thats the way the operated. Its hard to tell if they used the correct oil but I guess you have to take their word for it.

I side with you OP, but always interrogate the service history. If the milage is X and you know that pads should be changed around then, then I would be looking for prove of this. Lesson learnt I am afraid.

bazz26

Brake pad wear is not measured on mileage though, it's measured on use. One driver could be heavy on braking meaning the pads wear out quicker while another driver could drive twice the mileage before the car needs new pads. The simplest way is to just check the thickness of the pads at the time of buying.

Bazzy

I'm with the OP here

If a car is serviced it is expected that whatever work has been done will last it until it needs to be seen by a "professional" again

I understand some car dealers would have an adhoc attitude when it comes to stuff like this.

But as has been posted a simple

" Them pads are ok at the minute they're 50% used so may not last till the next service"

Would see the OP calling back to have warranty work done and you can be sure would be saying sort the pads while you have the car please

Customer is happy
Dealer makes a few bob
Everyones a winner


But alas thats not the case its not wrong to expect decent service when your spending that amount of money

magentis

Sorry,
But those pads.were gone,when/if that car got an oil change,paying 7-9k for a car,the pads should have been checked.

In no way is it acceptable to buy a car for that money with shot rear pads,if it was €7-900 fair enough.

The least the dealer should do is check them.