Used car issue

bucketybuck

Bazzy wrote: »

I'm with the OP here

If a car is serviced it is expected that whatever work has been done will last it until it needs to be seen by a "professional" again

Then neither of you understand the nature of wearable items. The idea that a simple service means the car will be fine for the next year or 10,000 miles is just ignorant.

Its a very common mindset these days unfortunately, people just don't appreciate that a vehicle is just thousands of individual parts that needs to be properly looked after, instead they think that an NCT means the car is perfect and that a service means you don't need to check the oil or water for a year.

It really is alarming to hear adults honestly believing that because the car was serviced the brake pads should last until the next service, when that wouldn't be true even if brake pads were automatically changed at every single service.

bucketybuck

magentis wrote: »

In no way is it acceptable to buy a car for that money with shot rear pads

The pads clearly were serviceable at the time of sale, not "shot" as you want to believe.

How do we know? Because they ran fine and without any noise or brake warnings for the next 3 months. If they were "shot" at the time of sale they would not have lasted another 3 months. QED.

Bazzy

bucketybuck wrote: »

Then neither of you understand the nature of wearable items. The idea that a simple service means the car will be fine for the next year or 10,000 miles is just ignorant.

Its a very common mindset these days unfortunately, people just don't appreciate that a vehicle is just thousands of individual parts that needs to be properly looked after, instead they think that an NCT means the car is perfect and that a service means you don't need to check the oil or water for a year.

It really is alarming to hear adults honestly believing that because the car was serviced the brake pads should last until the next service, when that wouldn't be true even if brake pads were automatically changed at every single service.

I fully understand the nature of wearable items

Joe public doesnt know a lot about cars so trusts that his annual trip to friendly mechanic will deal with all issues until the following year or mileage is reached

so a "Full" service should see joe public ok until he needs to go back again

If its not going to last the duration joe public should be told your pads wont last until your next service unless the OP has a skid testing contract with lagan or sisk the brakes wont last until his next service

Apart from safety is best practice to let people know especially when the OP had paid his money in good faith

Unless your coming on here with a timing chain issue on a bmw or a query on an audi/volkswagen you will get hammered

A lot of the people backing the dealer work in the motor trade SIMI approved i'm sure

But sure look its only brakes .....

ofcork

When I was buying my car I picked it up from an indy dealer (ie; not a branded dealer). I knew I wanted the car when I seen it (as every other car i looked at, including newer ones, were in tatters in terms of paintwork and such).

First thing I did was bring it to an Atlas centre to get it looked over. No idea how good or bad Atlas are (I'd never even heard of them until then) but I rang them up and booked the car in there and then so i could get someone who knows neither the dealer or me to give it an unbiased lookover.


Haggled dealer a small bit, and gave him a list of things i wanted fixed. We agreed on the sale. Left a small deposit and returned to get it a couple days later when it had been serviced. Got car checked over with my own mechanic the day i bought it to ensure that the work that was supposed to be carried out actually was carried out.


It's a bit of faffing around, but OP, you have to remember that things on cars going wrong can be pricy. You're lucky to be getting away with the brake pads being the issue that arose.

Go back to the garage and ask will they meet you halfway. Don't lose the head, but just explain you feel a bit hard done by as you'd expected they'd be in better shape, and is there anything he can do for you. He might offer free fitting or somesuch.

I really don't see them offering to fix the aircon. That can be pricy (depending on whats wrong) and anything more than a re-gas they wont want to touch I'd say. Air con is one of those things you'd be expected to notice when test driving and would accept 'as seen'.



If it makes you feel any better though, the chap I bought from, although he could be the biggest con man out there, seemed like a genuine enough chap to me and I felt i was treated honestly and politely. However, despite that, I did have to specifically ask for the pads to be done (Atlas highlighted them as needing replacing soon, so they went onto my list).

So I'd assume it's one of those things that they never really include as standard.

ofcork wrote: »

If the car was in for a service at the same dealer id say they wouldnt be long telling him the pads were worn.

Made me laugh

jca

I'm with the op in this one. I bought my present car in 2014 and noticed that the front pads were replaced in the service that it got before being sold. I had it about a month and like the op the rear pads started grinding slightly. I went back to the dealer who tried fobbing me off with the stone stuck in the caliper yarn.... one new set of pads replaced foc and I'm a happy camper.

bucketybuck

Bazzy wrote: »

Joe public doesnt know a lot about cars so trusts that his annual trip to friendly mechanic will deal with all issues until the following year or mileage is reached

so a "Full" service should see joe public ok until he needs to go back again

If its not going to last the duration joe public should be told your pads wont last until your next service unless the OP has a skid testing contract with lagan or sisk the brakes wont last until his next service

Brake pads wear, and most importantly they wear at varying rates according to who is driving and how the vehicle is used. So if we accepted your post then every dealer doing a service should replace the brake pads regardless of wear and then also advise the customer that they still won't last until the next service. If Joe Public is going to embrace the ignorance then that is what the dealer needs to do to avoid liability.

Again, this idea that Joe Public thinks all issues are dealt with until the next service is alarming, carrying out a service has never been a guarantee that the vehicle brakes, clutch, oil level, coolant level, a/r/b bushes or any of a hundred other items will be perfect for X amount of time.

Of course the most amusing thing about all of this would be the reaction if dealers were telling customers that they should change their brake pads because they won't make the next service. There would be a thread complaining about those evil dealers ripping off customers by changing brake pads that still had a whole 3 months life left on them. :rolleyes:

my3cents

bucketybuck wrote: »

Brake pads wear, and most importantly they wear at varying rates according to who is driving and how the vehicle is used. So if we accepted your post then every dealer doing a service should replace the brake pads regardless of wear and then also advise the customer that they still won't last until the next service. If Joe Public is going to embrace the ignorance then that is what the dealer needs to do to avoid liability.

Again, this idea that Joe Public thinks all issues are dealt with until the next service is alarming, carrying out a service has never been a guarantee that the vehicle brakes, clutch, oil level, coolant level, a/r/b bushes or any of a hundred other items will be perfect for X amount of time.

Of course the most amusing thing about all of this would be the reaction if dealers were telling customers that they should change their brake pads because they won't make the next service. There would be a thread complaining about those evil dealers ripping off customers by changing brake pads that still had a whole 3 months life left on them. :rolleyes:

If you don't think a new set of pads will last from one service till the next then there really is no point reading what you are posting.

Bazzy

bucketybuck wrote: »

Brake pads wear, and most importantly they wear at varying rates according to who is driving and how the vehicle is used. So if we accepted your post then every dealer doing a service should replace the brake pads regardless of wear and then also advise the customer that they still won't last until the next service. If Joe Public is going to embrace the ignorance then that is what the dealer needs to do to avoid liability.

Again, this idea that Joe Public thinks all issues are dealt with until the next service is alarming, carrying out a service has never been a guarantee that the vehicle brakes, clutch, oil level, coolant level, a/r/b bushes or any of a hundred other items will be perfect for X amount of time.

Of course the most amusing thing about all of this would be the reaction if dealers were telling customers that they should change their brake pads because they won't make the next service. There would be a thread complaining about those evil dealers ripping off customers by changing brake pads that still had a whole 3 months life left on them. :rolleyes:

No we would have informed consumers and safer roads as most people I certainly know I would, would have them replaced if there was only 3 months left on them considering youve gotten a good year or so out of them I wouldnt feel hard done by at all if I was joe public.

I know how to change the brake pads on my cars so I wouldnt be too worried about it

But I certianly think it should be mentioned I went in to get tyres recently on the front of a car and the guy checked the back ones and gave me the measurements of tyre left wrote it down on a card and the price of replacements.

He wasnt trying to rip me off he was doing his job as i trust him as a professional in his industry.

Simple as the garage should have slipped on a set of pads while they we're prepping the car for sale they saved all of 13-20 if they done that with everycar they will get plenty of repeat business as people would be happier

But no not in the irish motor industry its rip off and cut corners where possible in a LOT of places

bucketybuck

my3cents wrote: »

If you don't think a new set of pads will last from one service till the next then there really is no point reading what you are posting.

Perhaps try to read for comprehension.

Bazzy

bucketybuck wrote: »

Perhaps try to read for comprehension.

Listen the op asked for an opinion I gave mine

If you dont like it print it out, roll it up tight and shove it up your hol€

bucketybuck

Bazzy wrote: »

No we would have informed consumers

From what I'm reading in here people seemingly don't want to be more informed.


There is one thing that needs to be recognised in cases like this: Salesmen are not mechanics.

A salesman can of course also be a mechanic, but when selling a car he is acting as a salesman and will act accordingly. Consumers really need to accept the reality of that because there is one fact common to sales of any type, the salesman will want to downplay the negatives and accentuate the positives. Like it or lump it thats just the way it is, the guy selling you an ipad doesn't want to chat about it needing a battery in a few months, the guy selling cinema tickets doesn't want to say the film is crap and the guy in Burger King doesn't want to say the drinks are full of ice. They don't want to do this in case the buyer has second thoughts and it costs them the sale.

Its no different for car sales, and is why no salesman is going to start telling you that the car is perfectly serviceable but it will probably need pads in a few months, or that the clutch might need done next year, or that the engine mounts are wearing a bit or that there is a tiny spot on the windscreen that could spread.
It would be perfectly reasonable to say any of that but customers often aren't reasonable themselves and if they hear it they start to wonder what else might need doing in the future.

Get a service from a mechanic and he probably will advise you on the pads, but the OP didn't get a service from a mechanic, he bought a car from a salesman and he should have recognised the difference.

In short, the OP bought a car from a salesman with perfectly serviceable brake pads and 3 months later is complaining that the pads now need replacing and that the salesman didn't tell him about it. I think a bit of self reflection would do no harm there.

bucketybuck

Bazzy wrote: »

Listen the op asked for an opinion I gave mine

If you dont like it print it out, roll it up tight and shove it up your hol€

But that wasn't responding to you?

Unless both of those accounts are the same person, did you forget to log in to the correct account?

my3cents

bucketybuck wrote: »

But that wasn't responding to you?

Unless both of those accounts are the same person, did you forget to log in to the correct account?

No we are different people even if we both disagree with some of what you are saying.

Continuing on.... What you seem to be failing to grasp is that service intervals are set out to prevent break downs. Brake pads are easily accessible cheap easy to change wearing parts that are replaced many times over the life of a car. I'd be mortified if I had to replace a clutch more than once.

have2flushtwice

I'm with the op on this one. dealer should have advised. at least say, grand, 25 quid. Apprentice will do it in an hour.
what is a service then.... oil and filter? Thats just an oil and filter.... were the brakes checked? was it a full service or a part service?
I'D hop off the garage manager, and let him know that un not happy, either he sort it or I'll send complaint to head office and its up to them.... then bring it next door and get them to change the pads then move on.

Bazzy

its fairly simple

Dealer is selling car they intend to stand over for 3 months or whatever period of time

If the dealer is worth their salt they will send the car through a workshop and again if its worth its salt they would ring sales maanger and say

"this car needs a set of brake pads this ones are over 50% worn"

A set of pads for that car would €25 tops with trade discount

If the sales manager was worth his salt he woud say

"Yeah for the sake of €50 €25 pads €25 fitted TOPS including copper grease etc put them in"

Customer goes away happy its a no brainer for such small value on a big spend like that


The its the buyers problem is typical attitude of the irish motor trade

challengemaster

Bazzy wrote: »

Joe public doesnt know a lot about cars so trusts that his annual trip to friendly mechanic will deal with all issues until the following year or mileage is reached

so a "Full" service should see joe public ok until he needs to go back again

If its not going to last the duration joe public should be told your pads wont last until your next service unless the OP has a skid testing contract with lagan or sisk the brakes wont last until his next service

And this is exactly what's wrong with the attitude towards car ownership in this country. People need to wake up and take some responsibility for their own vehicles condition, not expect to be spoon fed.

Toyotafanboi

Bazzy wrote: »

The its the buyers problem is typical attitude of the irish motor trade

It was a used car purchase. The car is already 'x' distance though it's life.

If we are going to replace 70% worn (30% remaining) pads, are we also going to replace the tyres ar 3.5mm, the long life spark plugs that have done 50 out of 60k miles and the headlight bulbs of unknown age.

You should be of the mindset thst the car is used and as such every component is not new and you will need to monitor wear and tear from the time you buy it. You wont see any dealer replcing every consumable part on a car that is not "as new" before they retail it.

my3cents

challengemaster wrote: »

And this is exactly what's wrong with the attitude towards car ownership in this country. People need to wake up and take some responsibility for their own vehicles condition, not expect to be spoon fed.

If we could get people to get their cars serviced at all that would be a start but I can't see how the average owner can do more than do the recommended checks in the handbook and have the car serviced at the relevant time - thats as much responsibility as any owner should need to take.

bucketybuck

Bazzy wrote: »

"this car needs a set of brake pads this ones are over 50% worn"

Replacing 50% worn brake pads would be a total waste, and like I said any garage doing that would be called a rip-off cowboy trader for replacing brake pads that had plenty of life left on them.

Bazzy

challengemaster wrote: »

And this is exactly what's wrong with the attitude towards car ownership in this country. People need to wake up and take some responsibility for their own vehicles condition, not expect to be spoon fed.

Taking responsibility is taking it to a trained professional to maintain .... you cant get any more responsible than that.

Or when buying assuming that its fit to see its next scheduled trip to the garage and if some component is not going to make it be aware of it

Bazzy

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

It was a used car purchase. The car is already 'x' distance though it's life.

If we are going to replace 70% worn (30% remaining) pads, are we also going to replace the tyres ar 3.5mm, the long life spark plugs that have done 50 out of 60k miles and the headlight bulbs of unknown age.

You should be of the mindset thst the car is used and as such every component is not new and you will need to monitor wear and tear from the time you buy it. You wont see any dealer replcing every consumable part on a car that is not "as new" before they retail it.

if I was getting my car serviced in a garage and the brake pads we're 70% worn i'd be expected to be informed of it

tyres at 3.5mm yes replace as there's fcuk all life left in them

plugs have 10k so no dont replace

bulbs are working unless they go not to be replaced,

Garages shouldnt say "comes full serviced" Should be oil and filter and plugs ( where applicable) changed

Bazzy

bucketybuck wrote: »

Replacing 50% worn brake pads would be a total waste, and like I said any garage doing that would be called a rip-off cowboy trader for replacing brake pads that had plenty of life left on them.

Firstly I said over 50%. It would nice to be informed so you could make an informed choice or schedule it into further down the road

Nonoperational

It's pretty disingenuous of some of the experienced posters here saying that a full service doesn't include a look at the pad condition. I wouldn't expect to have them changed routinely, but definitely a look and a word that they may be near end of life.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Bazzy wrote: »

I'm with the OP here

If a car is serviced it is expected that whatever work has been done will last it until it needs to be seen by a "professional" again

I understand some car dealers would have an adhoc attitude when it comes to stuff like this.

But as has been posted a simple

" Them pads are ok at the minute they're 50% used so may not last till the next service"

Would see the OP calling back to have warranty work done and you can be sure would be saying sort the pads while you have the car please

Customer is happy
Dealer makes a few bob
Everyones a winner


But alas thats not the case its not wrong to expect decent service when your spending that amount of money

You clearly have no idea on how car servicing works.

Pads will only be changed during a service if they need changed or the owner bring its to the attention of the garage. They are not changed as a matter of course or according to any schedule.

The pads were fine when op bought the car, the dealer would have absolutely no reason to check them unless the buyer asked for it specifically when buying. There is no comeback on them once the car has been bought and drive for a few weeks.

Allinall

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

You clearly have no idea on how car servicing works.

Pads will only be changed during a service if they need changed or the owner bring its to the attention of the garage. They are not changed as a matter of course or according to any schedule.

The pads were fine when op bought the car, the dealer would have absolutely no reason to check them unless the buyer asked for it specifically when buying. There is no comeback on them once the car has been bought and drive for a few weeks.

Are you honestly claiming that "the dealer would have absolutely no reason to check them unless the buyer asked for it specifically", and in the same breath claim the poster has no idea on how car servicing works?



Of course a dealer should check the condition if the brakes on a car they are offering for sale.

The mind boggles.

Bazzy

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

You clearly have no idea on how car servicing works.

Pads will only be changed during a service if they need changed or the owner bring its to the attention of the garage. They are not changed as a matter of course or according to any schedule.

The pads were fine when op bought the car, the dealer would have absolutely no reason to check them unless the buyer asked for it specifically when buying. There is no comeback on them once the car has been bought and drive for a few weeks.

The brakes on a car should be checked as standard.

To make sure I wasnt going mad I contacted two friends of mine who work in the trade one is a dealer principal in a main dealer franchise and the other is an independent mechanic


The dealer said he would fit pads if they were any way going to start a row within the 12 month warranty

The indo said he would advise on estimate of meat they have left and let the customer make a decision.

He said he does work for a few small second hand car dealers and the norm would be to do the bare minimum if they're not making noise dont replace them

Ireland is an awful place to buy a 2nd hand car

Bazzy

Nonoperational wrote: »

It's pretty disingenuous of some of the experienced posters here saying that a full service doesn't include a look at the pad condition. I wouldn't expect to have them changed routinely, but definitely a look and a word that they may be near end of life.

Just mention buying a cheap tyre and they'll all jump back onto their high horses about road safety!!!

Brakes pppfffft