Brexit should we leave too??

First Up

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Never was "be careful what you wish for" more true.

It's going to be very interesting. One positive for us could be the redirecting of US direct investment in England, Scotland and Wales switching here instead.

That will happen, although not overnight. Sorting out the arrangements with NI will be a pain in the ass and I am sure there are people of questionable motives licking their chops at a new border to slip under. Overall its a new situation with lots to play for. So lets play.

laugh

Is Boris an MP?

FURET

Populist parties in Italy, France and Holland are now calling for their own votes. The European Project's future is now very much in the balance.

mickoneill31

FURET wrote: »

Populist parties in Italy, France and Holland are now calling for their own votes. The European Project's future is now very much in the balance.

I'm sure we'll get them here too (usual suspects). I think any parliament with half a brain will wait a year or 2 to see how it plays out for the UK.

mylesm

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

Not a hope. Even the people polled are scaremongering.
The UK will not risk potential economic impacts.
More chance of North Korea joining the EU.

I presume North Korea are now printing the ballot papers

thebeerbaron

Beginning of the end of the United Kingdom, next general election SNP will have on their manifesto a second referendum on independence.
Once they leave NI will be next.

DellyBelly

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

UK will vote to remain. A certainty.

Good call

Moo Moo Land

DellyBelly wrote: »

Good call

Shocked. Cameron screwed up.
I should have backed Brexit at 13/2 yesterday!

Estrellita

DellyBelly wrote: »

Good call

There is no 'what if' either apparently

FURET

thebeerbaron wrote: »

Beginning of the end of the United Kingdom, next general election SNP will have on their manifesto a second referendum on independence.
Once they leave NI will be next.

The UK survived a vote on its future in 2014. It is now unfortunately the EU that is looking at the beginning of its end. Will Scotland be so keen to leave the UK in order to join the EU when it sees the agitation in countries like Holland, France, Sweden and Austria to leave the EU?

The main causes of this crisis are:

1. The Sovereign Debt Crisis and the dodgy foundations of the euro
2. Mass immigration from within Europe due to the economic disparity between north and south and east and west
3. Mass immigration from outside Europe and the prospect of Turkey being admitted, resulting in dramatic changes to the cultures of Europe's nation states

Moo Moo Land

Estrellita wrote: »

There is no 'what if' either apparently

The Brexit side were conceding defeat last night on TV. Unreal.
Cameron's team blew it.

duboce

The British people have voted to leave the EU and we should respect their decision.

Now, with a fundamental change in our economic outlook, should the Irish people also be given the opportunity to vote on an Eirexit.

The UK is more economically important to Ireland than the rest of Europe is.

DownOneTourist

duboce wrote: »

The British people have voted to leave the EU and we should respect their decision.

Now, with a fundamental change in our economic outlook, should the Irish people also be given the opportunity to vote on an Eirexit.

The UK is more economically important to Ireland than the rest of Europe is.

Eirexit doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. It needs a catchier name.

intheclouds

DownOneTourist wrote: »

Eirexit doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. It needs a catchier name.

Ixit.

DownOneTourist

Nextit? As in we are leaving next? Eh?

seamus

duboce wrote: »

The UK is more economically important to Ireland than the rest of Europe is.

That's just completely incorrect.

This would be the worst possible time for Ireland to leave the EU.

We should instead be enlisting EU help to aggressively target FDI that would previously have gone to the UK and develop taxation and other policies that will make Ireland more competitive then the UK once the UK has left.

intheclouds

DownOneTourist wrote: »

Nextit? As in we are leaving next? Eh?

The Netherlands already got dibs on that.

eric hoone

DownOneTourist wrote: »

Nextit? As in we are leaving next? Eh?

nexit for Netherlands, sexit for Sweden, fexit for finland

longshanks

So maybe our island will be united, and we'll take Scotland too?
The thing that surprised me the most is how wrong the bookies got this. Paddy Power were giving 8/1 to leave.

thebeerbaron

FURET wrote: »

The UK survived a vote on its future in 2014. It is now unfortunately the EU that is looking at the beginning of its end. Will Scotland be so keen to leave the UK in order to join the EU when it sees the agitation in countries like Holland, France, Sweden and Austria to leave the EU?

The main causes of this crisis are:

1. The Sovereign Debt Crisis and the dodgy foundations of the euro
2. Mass immigration from within Europe due to the economic disparity between north and south and east and west
3. Mass immigration from outside Europe and the prospect of Turkey being admitted, resulting in dramatic changes to the cultures of Europe's nation states

I agree with all your points. Unfortunately Junker will not allow any more reform. He is dead set against it. Tusk has called for a halt to the project and a reform program before any new countries come in.
the borders are already going up in Hungry, Macedonia and Croatia or Slovenia.

Liamario

I don't trust my government to run the country on its own. I'd vote no.

murpho999

longshanks wrote: »

So maybe our island will be united, and we'll take Scotland too?
The thing that surprised me the most is how wrong the bookies got this. Paddy Power were giving 8/1 to leave.

It's not really the bookies who got it wrong but the punters as they decide the market. Bookies don't lose at those long odds as more were backing remain.

Help!!!!

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

What do you mean "so called refugees". A person is either declared a Refugee or not by either the UN or in Ireland ORAC or the Refugee Appeal Tribunal. Once a person is a Refugee then the host country must allow that person access to all supports a citizen is entitled to. That is not EU law it is the rights set out in the UN convention on Refugees as signed by Ireland in 1956 and it's protocols in 1968.

I'm talking about those from Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Pakistan etc. Do you think all the people that have gotten on boats are from Syria?

SteM

murpho999 wrote: »

It's not really the bookies who got it wrong but the punters as they decide the market. Bookies don't lose at those long odds as more were backing remain.

The 8/1 was to entice people to start putting money on Leave because obviously people were putting more money on Remain and also PP did not expect a Leave vote. They expected a Remain vote, that's one of the reasons the odds for Remain were low.

However, at odds of 8/1 all it would have taken is a couple of big bets on Leave and any potential winnings by the bookies from Remain bets would have been wiped out.

PP got it wrong this time imo, 8/1 was too high.

TheDoc

longshanks wrote: »

So maybe our island will be united, and we'll take Scotland too?
The thing that surprised me the most is how wrong the bookies got this. Paddy Power were giving 8/1 to leave.

While SF might be out the traps taking advantage, everyone else taking a measured approach.

Taking NI onboard, and their 6BN costs, would absolutely tank our economy.

One thing is for sure, we can kiss goodbye all those promises made by candidates in the election, as there will likely be no giveaways come October.

And more worryingly, look at the ****ing government we have to navigate us through this

cbreeze

Rep of Ireland should re-join the Commonwealth. Malta is a republic with Euro currency which is a Commonwealth country, so we should not be unique.

Pro Hoc Vice

Help!!!! wrote: »

I'm talking about those from Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Pakistan etc. Do you think all the people that have gotten on boats are from Syria?

Such persons are either illegal immigrants or persons seeking international protection. A person can not be a so called refugee they are in law either a Refugee or not. BTW the EU proposed a solution process all such applicants in Turkey and then allow in the refugees and deport from turkey all who fail.

Help!!!!

The remain camp were full of billionaires, millionaire movie stars & musicians & people living in rich areas. People who have lost touch with the working class. If you were working long hours for minimum wage & you saw people coming into the country & going straight on benefits & going straight to the top of the list for council houses you would vote out. Cameron didn't listen to the people when UKIP started to gain support. Its not that they are all racists its that services like the NHS was already stretched, schools were already overcrowded. Its something Ireland needs to look at. We are an island with services already stretched. Immigrants who come for work should be welcomed, those that come to go straight on benefits should not

weisses

Help!!!! wrote: »

The remain camp were full of billionaires, millionaire movie stars & musicians & people living in rich areas. People who have lost touch with the working class.

74 % of young people voted remain

Brexit can be attributed to the old and bitter folk who voted out

Help!!!!

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Such persons are either illegal immigrants or persons seeking international protection. A person can not be a so called refugee they are in law either a Refugee or not. BTW the EU proposed a solution process all such applicants in Turkey and then allow in the refugees and deport from turkey all who fail.

Yes the EU reacted months after the doors were opened by Merkel. How many thousands of illegal immigrants are already on mainland Europe? Are they all going to be rounded up & sent home? I think not

drake70

mylesm wrote: »

I presume North Korea are now printing the ballot papers

Yes, with the boxes pre-ticked

Zynks

Is this as good as it gets from Enda? No leadership skills whatsoever!

Help!!!!

weisses wrote: »

74 % of young people voted remain

Brexit can be attributed to the old and bitter folk who voted out

74% of people who haven't seen how harsh life can be. Either in university or living at home
" old & bitter folk "?? You would feel the same if you lived over there. If you are a white single straight man you will get no help, you are at the bottom of every list.

eeguy

Help!!!! wrote: »

74% of people who haven't seen how harsh life can be. Either in university or living at home
" old & bitter folk "?? You would feel the same if you lived over there. If you are a white single straight man you will get no help, you are at the bottom of every list.

http://graphics.wsj.com/brexit-whos-voting-what/?mod=e2fb

Here's a breakdown.
The under 50's voted to stay, over 50's voted to leave.
Over 65's were overwhelmingly for leaving.

So your "university or living at home comment is wrong".

Personally I think it's irresponsible to give so much weight to the opinions of those who may be long dead before the ramifications of their decision is truly understood.

Help!!!!

eeguy wrote: »

http://graphics.wsj.com/brexit-whos-voting-what/?mod=e2fb

Here's a breakdown.
The under 50's voted to stay, over 50's voted to leave.
Over 65's were overwhelmingly for leaving.

So your "university or living at home comment is wrong".

Personally I think it's irresponsible to give so much weight to the opinions of those who may be long dead before the ramifications of their decision is truly understood.

Maybe have a look at that again
18-24 60% stay
25-49 45% stay
50-64 42% stay
65+ 34% stay

eeguy

Help!!!! wrote: »

Maybe have a look at that again
18-24 60% stay
25-49 45% stay
50-64 42% stay
65+ 34% stay

I have.
18-24 20% leave
25-49 39% leave
50-64 48% leave
65+ 60% leave

Seth Brundle

Zynks wrote: »

Is this as good as it gets from Enda? No leadership skills whatsoever!

In fairness, he appears to have said more than that...
http://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/taoiseach-to-recall-dail-on-monday-to-discuss-brexit-vote-34830106.html

Saipanne

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

UK will vote to remain. A certainty.

Hahaha

Help!!!!

eeguy wrote: »

I have.
18-24 20% leave
25-49 39% leave
50-64 48% leave
65+ 60% leave

Yeah so obviously the undecided votes went to leave, so to say it was only the 50+ wanting to leave is wrong
More like 25+

jmayo

Help!!!! wrote: »

I'm talking about those from Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Pakistan etc. Do you think all the people that have gotten on boats are from Syria?

Ehh you forgot the Albanians, Moroccans, Algerians, Kosovans, the Turks that ended up walking to Germany.

weisses wrote: »

74 % of young people voted remain

Brexit can be attributed to the old and bitter folk who voted out

Yep it's always the bitter that are so ungrateful to vote against their betters. :rolleyes:

eeguy wrote: »

http://graphics.wsj.com/brexit-whos-voting-what/?mod=e2fb

Here's a breakdown.
The under 50's voted to stay, over 50's voted to leave.
Over 65's were overwhelmingly for leaving.

So your "university or living at home comment is wrong".

Personally I think it's irresponsible to give so much weight to the opinions of those who may be long dead before the ramifications of their decision is truly understood.

Yeah why actually give anyone that might disagree with you a vote.

I know Europhiles are often termed as sanctimonious, pompous, arrogant, but I guess we can now add bitter undemocratic to that as well.

Oh but wait, hasn't the EU being undemocratic for a while now. :rolleyes:

eeguy

Help!!!! wrote: »

Yeah so obviously the undecided votes went to leave, so to say it was only the 50+ wanting to leave is wrong
More like 25+

It's don't know or wouldn't vote.

You cant claim them as solely leave voters. Obviously.

Help!!!!

eeguy wrote: »

It's don't know or wouldn't vote.

You cant claim them as solely leave voters. Obviously.

Well whichever way they voted, LEAVE won.
Have you lived in the UK over the last 10years?

Tigerbaby

intheclouds wrote: »

Ixit.

d'exit ?

eeguy

Help!!!! wrote: »

Well whichever way they voted, LEAVE won.
Have you lived in the UK over the last 10years?

I know that. I'm not arguing that. All I'm saying is the under 50s vote to stay, over 50s vote to leave.

I don't live in the UK.

Help!!!!

eeguy wrote: »

I know that. I'm not arguing that. All I'm saying is the under 50s vote to stay, over 50s vote to leave.

I don't live in the UK.

I went to live there in 1995 & left a couple of years ago. I feel really sorry for the English. You imagine working hard your whole life & in your later life you cant get decent medical care because the NHS is over stretched because of a large influx of people over the last 10 years. When I say English I don't just mean " white ". & the Welsh have had it worse.
Ireland needs to look at the mistakes of the UK. We cannot keep letting people in to go straight on benefits. We need to look after who's here now & try getting our hospitals & other services up to a proper standard. Hopefully now that the UK are out of the EU, Ireland wont look as great a destination.

weisses

weisses wrote: »

Brexit can be attributed to the old and bitter folk who voted out

And the Remain side wonder why they didn't manage to convince people....

One of the leaders of the Yes Equality campaign, successful in the Marriage Referendum, gave an important warning to the Remain side when she was asked for her professional advice: Don't be sanctimonious, don't preach. Treat dissent with respect.

They didn't listen. They are paying for their approach now.

micosoft

flazio wrote: »

If we did hold a referendum on a European matter, it would go the same way as every other European referendum we've had. If we don't vote as Europe wants us to, we hold the referendum again.

This canard. If we don't vote as our (democratically elected) Government wants to we hold another referendum. Just like we do for Divorce and all the other progress we've made as a society.

What the British example demonstrates is that referendums are the worst form of Governance - open to demagogues and populists to manipulate. All the lies we were told about voting for referendums (force abortions, conscription into a Euro army) were just that.

We should use this opportunity to look at banning referendums here much as Germany has done and the US forsaw (tyranny of the people) and never had at a federal level.

weisses

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

And the Remain side wonder why they didn't manage to convince people....

One of the leaders of the Yes Equality campaign, successful in the Marriage Referendum, gave an important warning to the Remain side when she was asked for her professional advice: Don't be sanctimonious, don't preach. Treat dissent with respect.

They didn't listen. They are paying for their approach now.

I think the rhetoric, lies and scaremongering worked ...Also the misplaced sense of the elderly still seeing Britain as a big Empire and somehow blame Europe for what happened

But lets see how Boris and Farange will make Britain great again.

weisses

Help!!!! wrote: »

I went to live there in 1995 & left a couple of years ago. I feel really sorry for the English. You imagine working hard your whole life & in your later life you cant get decent medical care because the NHS is over stretched because of a large influx of people over the last 10 years. When I say English I don't just mean " white ". & the Welsh have had it worse.
Ireland needs to look at the mistakes of the UK. We cannot keep letting people in to go straight on benefits. We need to look after who's here now & try getting our hospitals & other services up to a proper standard. Hopefully now that the UK are out of the EU, Ireland wont look as great a destination.

HSE is a clusterfukc of an organisation as well ... I'm just counting the days people will blame migrants for that

Help!!!!

Help!!!! wrote: »

I went to live there in 1995 & left a couple of years ago. I feel really sorry for the English. You imagine working hard your whole life & in your later life you cant get decent medical care because the NHS is over stretched because of a large influx of people over the last 10 years. When I say English I don't just mean " white ". & the Welsh have had it worse.

How much immigration per capita has Wales had compared to England for example? If it's less then how have they been hit harder?