Brexit should we leave too??

Help!!!!

weisses wrote: »

HSE is a clusterfukc of an organisation as well ... I'm just counting the days people will blame migrants for that

The HSE is most definitely a clusterfukc & a lot of blame has to go to those in charge but is it a coincident that Irelands population has increased by 1million people since 1990

Help!!!!

Deleted User wrote: »

How much immigration per capita has Wales had compared to England for example? If it's less then how have they been hit harder?

Well resources that could have been invested into Wales to provide employment has been used to pay for benefits/housing etc for immigrants who refuse to work

seamus

Help!!!! wrote: »

The HSE is most definitely a clusterfukc & a lot of blame has to go to those in charge but is it a coincident that Irelands population has increased by 1million people since 1990

Yes.

The republic has never had a good health service. It's been a pathetic mess since the foundation of the state.

WomanSkirtFan8

Its obviously going to take some time before the full effect of this result is known. The next big question after that is going to be: what happens with Scotland?

According to First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, A Scottish exit from EU 'democratically unacceptable'.

It'll be extremely interesting to see what happens here.

Theboinkmaster

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

UK will vote to remain. A certainty.

Brave words my friend, don't you look like an idiot

OhHiMark

Help!!!! wrote: »

74% of people who haven't seen how harsh life can be. Either in university or living at home
" old & bitter folk "?? You would feel the same if you lived over there. If you are a white single straight man you will get no help, you are at the bottom of every list.

White straight men, the most persecuted of all people.

spintheglobe

Glad all the people betting against the future of peace in europe are happy about their own personal benefit....

spintheglobe

I am German and I want Ireland to stay in Europe - the project has flaws but it is a great achievement for our society

Help!!!!

Help!!!! wrote: »

Well resources that could have been invested into Wales to provide employment has been used to pay for benefits/housing etc for immigrants who refuse to work

Shall I ask the same question again? What you said had nothing to do with what I said.

eeguy

WomanSkirtFan8 wrote: »

Its obviously going to take some time before the full effect of this result is known. The next big question after that is going to be: what happens with Scotland?

According to First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, A Scottish exit from EU 'democratically unacceptable'.

It'll be extremely interesting to see what happens here.

How does that even work?

They voted to stay in the UK

The UK voted to leave the EU

Reminds me of the marriage referendum where those who voted no asked after the result "What about us? You need to consider us!" Well no actually, your side lost.

seamus

eeguy wrote: »

How does that even work?

They voted to stay in the UK

The UK voted to leave the EU

The general belief is the the Scottish referendum failed because people didn't want to leave the EU and have to reapply for membership.

Now that's something of a moot point, it's likely they will hold a referendum and campaign on the exact opposite basis - leave the UK in order to get Scotland back into the EU.

They will still have to reapply, but at least the option is there. Since Scotland voted to Remain in the EU, it would seem likely that a Scottish Independence referendum in the next six months would easily win.

Help!!!!

Deleted User wrote: »

Shall I ask the same question again? What you said had nothing to do with what I said.

Maybe go back & read my post.....I didn't say anything about immigration in Wales

Captain Scarlet

Future historians will look back on this and say...something in Chinese. Or Russian. Or (Latin-American) Spanish.

spintheglobe

Captain Scarlet wrote: »

Future historians will look back on this and say...something in Chinese. Or Russian. Or (Latin-American) Spanish.

so true! Europe as a whole is in a weaker position

Help!!!!

Help!!!! wrote: »

Maybe go back & read my post.....I didn't say anything about immigration in Wales

OK...

Help!!!! wrote: »

I went to live there in 1995 & left a couple of years ago. I feel really sorry for the English. You imagine working hard your whole life & in your later life you cant get decent medical care because the NHS is over stretched because of a large influx of people over the last 10 years.

So the "large influx of people" is what's causing difficulty in accessing services?

When I say English I don't just mean " white ". & the Welsh have had it worse.

Is this just a complete non-sequitur then? The Welsh have had it worse despite fewer immigrants?

Ireland needs to look at the mistakes of the UK. We cannot keep letting people in to go straight on benefits.

We generally don't. Also after the crash the Eastern Europeans had the same unemployment rate as native Irish despite being concentrated in the construction and services sectors which were hardest hit. Not sure where they're at now.

We need to look after who's here now & try getting our hospitals & other services up to a proper standard.

More people working and paying taxes (highest ever right now) will help that.

Hopefully now that the UK are out of the EU, Ireland wont look as great a destination.

How?

2Mad2BeMad

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

UK will vote to remain. A certainty.

you big bloody jona :pac:

eeguy

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

UK will vote to remain. A certainty.

You jinxed the whole thing.

The whole damn thing.

Help!!!!

Deleted User wrote: »

OK...


So the "large influx of people" is what's causing difficulty in accessing services?

Well do you think its a coincidence?

Is this just a complete non-sequitur then? The Welsh have had it worse despite fewer immigrants?

When I say English I don't just mean " white ". & the Welsh have had it worse. Theres a full stop after white. Theres is more unemployment per capita in Wales


We generally don't. Also after the crash the Eastern Europeans had the same unemployment rate as native Irish despite being concentrated in the construction and services sectors which were hardest hit. Not sure where they're at now.

There is a huge difference being an immigrant who goes to work in a country & one who wants to go straight on benefits & get free housing without ever putting anything into the country first

More people working and paying taxes (highest ever right now) will help that.

Not if the population continues to rise.

How?

Well for those who move here as we're a doorway into the UK

,,

Moo Moo Land

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

UK will vote to remain. A certainty.

Nice inside knowledge there!

K-9

Ok folks, somebody on the internet called the vote wrong with ridiculous certainty, it has been pointed out several times. Can we move on now.

Steve012

Deleted User wrote: »

OK...


So the "large influx of people" is what's causing difficulty in accessing services?

Yes and it is here too, over 40% of inmates in mountjoy ain't born here.. It was the pace at the influx came in at as well.
Do you actually think the influx into UK and Ireland has not put pressure on schools hospitals etc... ? huh. And if you do.... :rolleyes: good night!!

Help!!!!

OK just throwing this out there but.....
Now that the UK has left the EU & the possibility that Trump will become president. Should we start thinking of getting out of the EU & get closer to the UK & USA? We been dancing to the tune of our European paymasters for years now would it really be that bad. I mean isn't it better to be at the front of the queue rather than looking for the scraps later. If the Netherlands or Italians decide to leave before us & buddy up with them then they will get the better cuts of meat

eeguy

Help!!!! wrote: »

OK just throwing this out there but.....
Now that the UK has left the EU & the possibility that Trump will become president. Should we start thinking of getting out of the EU & get closer to the UK & USA? We been dancing to the tune of our European paymasters for years now would it really be that bad. I mean isn't it better to be at the front of the queue rather than looking for the scraps later. If the Netherlands or Italians decide to leave before us & buddy up with them then they will get the better cuts of meat

No. There's a ridiculous number of benefits to being in the EU. Travel and work being the main one.
Add in the trade benefits and all the consumer rights and protections and there's no way we as a small nation could make a better deal by ourselves.

Personally I can't believe they voted to leave and if I was a Leave voter, I would be pissed that their main campaign slogan has already turned out to be a lie.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-latest-nigel-farage-nhs-pledge-350-million-pounds-eu-referendum-vote-leave-lie-a7100706.html

CMOTDibbler

Help!!!! wrote: »

OK just throwing this out there but.....
Now that the UK has left the EU & the possibility that Trump will become president. Should we start thinking of getting out of the EU & get closer to the UK & USA? We been dancing to the tune of our European paymasters for years now would it really be that bad. I mean isn't it better to be at the front of the queue rather than looking for the scraps later. If the Netherlands or Italians decide to leave before us & buddy up with them then they will get the better cuts of meat

We have been a net benefitor of the EU ever since we joined. Our membership of the EU has brought massive FDI into this country from the USA among others.

Our farmers receive huge subsidies from Europe and a market for their produce.

There is so much that we have gained from membership of the EU that it would take days to ennumerate it all.

But let's just see what happens to the UK when they actually leave. Right now, they've just decided to leave and there's going to be a hell of a lot of water to flow under that bridge in the interim.

marymary1984

I know the vote is over and they decided to leave but I don't see it happening. Think there will be a general election, Labour will win and renegotiate a deal - put it to the people and they stall all within a 3 year period I.e by 2018-2019 the UK will still be in the Eu ( option b being the UK will be no more with Scotland and Northern Ireland being I dependant ) interesting options - time will tell.

CMOTDibbler

marymary1984 wrote: »

I know the vote is over and they decided to leave but I don't see it happening. Think there will be a general election, Labour will win and renegotiate a deal - put it to the people and they stall all within a 3 year period I.e by 2018-2019 the UK will still be in the Eu ( option b being the UK will be no more with Scotland and Northern Ireland being I dependant ) interesting options - time will tell.

I don't know. I see this as being a bit like the guy who works with you announcing that he's going to work for your employer's competition. His feet wouldn't touch the ground on his way out the door.

I can't see the EU allowing this to continue indefinitely.

CMOTDibbler

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I don't know. I see this as being a bit like the guy who works with you announcing that he's going to work for your employer's competition. His feet wouldn't touch the ground on his way out the door.

Well he'd probably go on garden leave if the job is of any real value... Article 50 basically establishes a 2-year garden leave, too. With the possibility of an extension.

I agree a referendum cannot be ruled out, especially if there's a change of Government.

uck51js9zml2yt

marymary1984 wrote: »

I know the vote is over and they decided to leave but I don't see it happening. Think there will be a general election, Labour will win and renegotiate a deal - put it to the people and they stall all within a 3 year period I.e by 2018-2019 the UK will still be in the Eu ( option b being the UK will be no more with Scotland and Northern Ireland being I dependant ) interesting options - time will tell.

Brussels won't allow them stay. They're out whether they want it or not.
The bigger issue is Scotland and NI.
Scotland will leave the UK.
Will NI follow and who will they align with. My money is on them aligning with Scotland given their heritage.


Or they could vote again to get it right:)

CMOTDibbler

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Well he'd probably go on garden leave if the job is of any real value... Article 50 basically establishes a 2-year garden leave, too. With the possibility of an extension.

I agree a referendum cannot be ruled out, especially if there's a change of Government.

I appreciate the gardening leave element and Junckers was saying that they should invoke article 50 as soon as possible. That reads to me that the EU need to start keeping the UK at arms length as soon as possible and let them organise their exit in the meantime.

The possibility of another referendum has to be balanced against the appetite for one domestically and the effect it would have on the UK's future relationship with Europe. How would the rest of the EU view the UK if they were doing an out again, in again dance.

CMOTDibbler

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I appreciate the gardening leave element and Junckers was saying that they should invoke article 50 as soon as possible. That reads to me that the EU need to start keeping the UK at arms length as soon as possible and let them organise their exit in the meantime.
.

I'm curious as to why Juncker felt the need to say that.

Does he genuinely want to rush ahead with Article 50? Politicians are rarely in a hurry to enter the unknown. Even so, why say it publicly? Why issue a press statement, and not say it over the phone?

Or, is he firing a shot across the bows to open the negotiation for new terms? Only yesterday the Financial Times quoted a Foreign Minister and some diplomats who said they were keen to find a way of keeping Britain in the EU post exit.

This isn't over yet. Unfortunately.

CMOTDibbler

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm curious as to why Juncker felt the need to say that.

Does he genuinely want to rush ahead with Article 50? Politicians are rarely in a hurry to enter the unknown. Even so, why say it publicly? Why issue a press statement, and not say it over the phone?

Or, is he firing a shot across the bows to open the negotiation for new terms? Only yesterday the Financial Times quoted a Foreign Minister and some diplomats who said they were keen to find a way of keeping Britain in the EU post exit.

This isn't over yet. Unfortunately.

Pour encourager les autres I assume.

Edit:

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker has argued for Brexit negotiations to begin straight away and said there was no need to wait until the new prime minister was in post in October.

He said: "Britons decided yesterday that they want to leave the European Union, so it doesn’t make any sense to wait until October to try to negotiate the terms of their departure. I would like to get started immediately."

He said the remaining member states would not "punish" the UK for leaving, as has been feared, but said “It’s not an amicable divorce, but it was not exactly a tight love affair anyway.”

embraer170

seamus wrote: »

They will still have to reapply, but at least the option is there. Since Scotland voted to Remain in the EU, it would seem likely that a Scottish Independence referendum in the next six months would easily win.

It would be a relatively easy accession.

Scotland already has the full body of Community law. The main open question would be Schengen/UK border and the currency, but I presume a pragmatic solution could be found (delay both for some decades).

When things got bad in Iceland, the EU offered an fast-tracked accession process. It didn't happen in the end because of fisheries, but a pragmatic approach was taken by the Institutions.

323

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm curious as to why Juncker felt the need to say that.

Does he genuinely want to rush ahead with Article 50? Politicians are rarely in a hurry to enter the unknown. Even so, why say it publicly? Why issue a press statement, and not say it over the phone?

Or, is he firing a shot across the bows to open the negotiation for new terms? Only yesterday the Financial Times quoted a Foreign Minister and some diplomats who said they were keen to find a way of keeping Britain in the EU post exit.

This isn't over yet. Unfortunately.

No indeed, its very far far from over.
Democracy. The biggest threat to the EU, has won! Juncker and all those unelected bureaucrats in Brussels are running around like headless chickens, making threats of cutting trade with the UK. The worlds 5th largest economy and 20% of the present EU economy, with attitudes like that no wonder the Euro-zone is such an economic basket case.

Don't think this is an unknown for Juncker, it is the beginning of the end of the EU. The real danger is the stupid vindictive lengths Brussels will go to to try to prevent the now inevitable domino effect.

Just a question of the order of the next countries to leave. Unfortunately it won't be us.

Billy86

Can someone points out to me what are the benefits to us leaving? I mean apart from us obviously dictating trade prices with the smaller Chinese and American economies...

Wanderer78

Billy86 wrote: »

Can someone points out to me what are the benefits to us leaving? I mean apart from us obviously dictating trade prices with the smaller Chinese and American economies...

we d probably be wrecked if we left now. it looks like we ll have to stay in till the bitter end, and it will be very bitter unfortunately.

CMOTDibbler

323 wrote: »

No indeed, its very far far from over.
Democracy. The biggest threat to the EU, has won! Juncker and all those unelected bureaucrats in Brussels are running around like headless chickens, making threats of cutting trade with the UK. The worlds 5th largest economy and 20% of the present EU economy, with attitudes like that no wonder the Euro-zone is such an economic basket case.

He what now?

Please quote a reputable source, I'd love a read of that.

Help!!!!

Wanderer78 wrote: »

we d probably be wrecked if we left now. it looks like we ll have to stay in till the bitter end, and it will be very bitter unfortunately.

Well if Trump becomes president I think we should leave & buddy up with the USA & UK. We have more in common with the both of them than the rest of Europe. We are already trading with Asia & no matter what the scaremongers are saying we will still be trading with Europe because they will still want to trade with us & UK

http://www.newstalk.com/Should-Ireland-follow-the-UK-and-leave-the-EU-too

SteM

Why do people on boards keep using the phrase 'buddy up' when it comes to international politics? I'm sure I've read it here before. Maybe we should 'like' them on Facebook too?

Britain is a huge economic power, that's why it matters that they leave. What do we have to bargain with if we leave?

Mec27

Help!!!! wrote: »

Well if Trump becomes president I think we should leave & buddy up with the USA & UK. We have more in common with the both of them than the rest of Europe. We are already trading with Asia & no matter what the scaremongers are saying we will still be trading with Europe because they will still want to trade with us & UK

http://www.newstalk.com/Should-Ireland-follow-the-UK-and-leave-the-EU-too

Ì don't know what you mean in common, but I can assure you California nor the west coast has anything in common with Ireland. Lol do you think there is a connection with a nation of immigrants of people from all over the world. America is a melting pot, Ireland is the exact oppsote:D

flazio

The main fear I would have if Ireland were to leave to leave the EU would be every single IDA industrial estate around the country emptying out to the mainland leaving us with some second rate Chinese companies. I've seen how they build cars over there.
But on a serious note. A lot of the big numbers employers are not Irish and would easily up sticks if they were having trouble accessing the European market via us.

Pro Hoc Vice

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm curious as to why Juncker felt the need to say that.

Does he genuinely want to rush ahead with Article 50? Politicians are rarely in a hurry to enter the unknown. Even so, why say it publicly? Why issue a press statement, and not say it over the phone?

Or, is he firing a shot across the bows to open the negotiation for new terms? Only yesterday the Financial Times quoted a Foreign Minister and some diplomats who said they were keen to find a way of keeping Britain in the EU post exit.

This isn't over yet. Unfortunately.

While politicians hate the unknown they hate uncertainty more. While I had no vote I wanted UK to stay in, now I feel they had their vote the people have spoken, invoke Article 50, the EU should be fair with the agreement, but my view is as UK has given its decision clear then the best bet is a clean divorce no EEA status they want to go alone then great power to them. It's simple now if the exit was the right decision then UK will survive and grow and EU will crumble if on the other hand it turns out to be wrong decision watch a 30 plus year stagnation in UK, EU will survive either way the die is cast, those who asked for Exit should be given their will straight away.

excollier

Article 50 has to be completed in 2 years not started immediately. Juncker should pay more heed to his own rule book and wait his time.
Shut it Juncker.
Even Angela Merkel disagrees with his stance and his hostility.

Pro Hoc Vice

excollier wrote: »

Article 50 has to be completed in 2 years not started immediately. Juncker should pay more heed to his own rule book and wait his time.
Shut it Juncker.
Even Angela Merkel disagrees with his stance and his hostility.

They have the vote to not invoke it is to deny the will of the people. My view was remain but now the votes are counted to do anything other than the invoking of Article 50 is a direct attack on the democratic process. I don't want to personally have UK leave but it is their will. The EU has a obligation to minimise uncertainity.

mickoneill31

excollier wrote: »

Article 50 has to be completed in 2 years not started immediately. Juncker should pay more heed to his own rule book and wait his time.
Shut it Juncker.
Even Angela Merkel disagrees with his stance and his hostility.

Until they implement it the UK has a vote and a voice in the EU. Why would any current members want that?

Does it still have a veto in some situations? I'm not sure.

Phoebas

Waiting 3 months wont do anyone any harm.

There's no point in starting negotiations before people have any firm positions about what they want to negotiate, and there wouldn't be any point in a Cameron led team starting negotiations only to be replaced by a Johnson led team later in the year.

There's a pile of preparatory work to be done on both sides, so this is a space to allow that to happen.

Seth Brundle

Phoebas wrote: »

There's no point in starting negotiations before people have any firm positions about what they want to negotiate,

...implying that it wasn't thought through properly?

Phoebas

mickoneill31 wrote: »

Until they implement it the UK has a vote and a voice in the EU. Why would any current members want that?

Does it still have a veto in some situations? I'm not sure.

I'm sure they'll be pragmatic on votes over the next couple of years.
We've already seen their commissioner resign.

Pro Hoc Vice

Phoebas wrote: »

Waiting 3 months wont do anyone any harm.

There's no point in starting negotiations before people have any firm positions about what they want to negotiate, and there wouldn't be any point in a Cameron led team starting negotiations only to be replaced by a Johnson led team later in the year.

There's a pile of preparatory work to be done on both sides, so this is a space to allow that to happen.

The negotiations can only be about one topic the exit, the UK has decided now start, there is no advantage to EU in waiting they dead right to put some solid framework on when the UK leave.

Xyzforsure

No we would be fecked.

We need to be part of either the eu or some commonwealth scenario.

The reality is we are a small country very dependent on external matters.

Oh and we are skint!

Phoebas

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

The negotiations can only be about one topic the exit, the UK has decided now start, there is no advantage to EU in waiting they dead right to put some solid framework on when the UK leave.

There's no doubt that the negotiations are going to be very complex. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they went past the two years, so I don't think there's any urgency to get them started today or tomorrow.

I'd prefer that everyone entered the negotiations well prepared with clear goals rather than rushing into it while the leadership in the UK is uncertain. A little bit of a pause now to let some of the hot air escape won't do any harm either.