Euro 2016 - Group A - Cuisine de France vs The Home of Dracula

Francie Barrett

Ol' Donie wrote: »

Good point.

That lad Fabregas was utterly useless in the last two Euros.

Typical Wenger influence.

Fabregas was a very good player who was wasted at Arsenal. It wasn't until he was freed from mediocrity that he really made a career for himself.

Drexel

Peist2007 wrote: »

More a mental thing. I actually rate Sagna but he has been in too many teams at this stage that haven't done it. And by done it, at Arsenal the aim is to win the title and Sagna's teams have been soft when it counted. At City he's part of a group that looks like it doesnt give a fk. Not the best recipe for turning into a force in winning a Euros. Koscielny is simply crap and so is Giroud. Matches at this level are so tight that Giroud simply doesnt cut the mustard.

Appreciate there are those who will disagree. I really doubt this French team's ability to grind it against some of the better teams they will face. Their belly is soft.

Koscielny Has consistently been one of the best defenders in the PL for a good few years now.

Wanna expand on what you mean by 'simply crap'?

Peist2007

Drexel wrote: »

Koscielny Has consistently been one of the best defenders in the PL for a good few years now.

Wanna expand on what you mean by 'simply crap'?

I don't rate him. I think i was influenced by all of the times he looked like a kid playing against Drogba. I think he takes chances on the ball, i think he can be rash, he isnt great when turned quickly. He can be bullied. Little Romanian guy ran straight over him tonight. All my own opinion of course.

Ol' Donie

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Fabregas was a very good player who was wasted at Arsenal. It wasn't until he was freed from mediocrity that he really made a career for himself.

You used the word develop.

Cesc was in the team of the tournament when he was very much an Arsenal player in 2008.

But good point well made.

Do you want to talk about Wenger's players in the France team that won it in 02?

Ol' Donie

Anyone know if Mertesacker and Podolski had any success in the last World Cup?

Presumably some brittle nonsense.

Drexel

Peist2007 wrote: »

I don't rate him. I think i was influenced by all of the times he looked like a kid playing against Drogba. I think he takes chances on the ball, i think he can be rash, he isnt great when turned quickly. He can be bullied. Little Romanian guy ran straight over him tonight. All my own opinion of course.

I'd say most of Drogbas goals against Arsenal were before Koscielny joined the club

The Talking Bread

Ol' Donie wrote: »

You used the word develop.

Cesc was in the team of the tournament when he was very much an Arsenal player in 2008.

But good point well made.

Do you want to talk about Wenger's players in the France team that won it in 02?

Or mertesacher, podolski or Ozil who just won a world cup... nah let's make wenger a scapegoat for everything! Fabregas was fantastic at Arsenal, likewise Nasri. If anything they were at their best under his helm. Likewise Van Persie, Sagna Anelka, Adebayour, and many more. If anything most players that depart arsenal never reach the peak again.

Francie Barrett

Ol' Donie wrote: »

You used the word develop.

Cesc was in the team of the tournament when he was very much an Arsenal player in 2008.

But good point well made.

Do you want to talk about Wenger's players in the France team that won it in 02?

Fabregas didn't even start most of those games, so please don't overplay his influence on Spain during that period.

Ol' Donie

Drexel wrote: »

I'd say most of Drogbas goals against Arsenal were before Koscielny joined the club

It's also worth remembering that Drogba, much as I hated him (although secretly I really, really loved him as a player) was amazing.

It'd be way easier to list the players, if there are any, that weren't destroyed by him in his pomp.

The Talking Bread

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Fabregas was a very good player who was wasted at Arsenal. It wasn't until he was freed from mediocrity that he really made a career for himself.

It wasn't until he left arsenal that he became part of the best club team in arguably the last 3 decades and likewise international team. In the end he couldn't get regular game time at Barca and likewise he has not lived up to standards at all at Chelsea. .....

But yeah.....wenger Wenger Wenger ..arsenal mentality...brittle...losing mentality....bla bla

Ol' Donie

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Fabregas didn't even start most of those games, so please don't overplay his influence on Spain during that period.

He was in team of the tournament. Jesus.

Ol' Donie

The Talking Bread wrote: »

It wasn't until he left arsenal that he became part of the best club team in arguably the last 3 decades and likewise international team. In the end he couldn't get regular game time at Barca and likewise he has not lived up to standards at all at Chelsea. .....

But yeah.....wenger Wenger Wenger ..arsenal mentality...brittle...losing mentality....bla bla

It's almost as if Barca don't bring in the absolute best players in the world. They go for the flaky weak lads.

Drexel

Ol' Donie wrote: »

It's also worth remembering that Drogba, much as I hated him (although secretly I really, really loved him as a player) was amazing.

It'd be way easier to list the players, if there are any, that weren't destroyed by him in his pomp.

I actually went and checked and I think Drogba only score one goal(a free kick) against Arsenal since 2010 when Koscielny joined so ur mans argument is a load of shît.

It was Wikipedia so the figures man not be spot on but he certainly scored the vast majority of his goals against Arsenal
Before Kos arrived.

Francie Barrett

Ol' Donie wrote: »

He was in team of the tournament. Jesus.

As a back-up player in a team of 23.

Ol' Donie

It was poor old Senderos who fell to pieces when Drogba was on the team sheet.

I bet he still jumps if someone even says Pogba.

gosplan

Peist2007 wrote: »

I don't rate him. I think i was influenced by all of the times he looked like a kid playing against Drogba. I think he takes chances on the ball, i think he can be rash, he isnt great when turned quickly. He can be bullied. Little Romanian guy ran straight over him tonight. All my own opinion of course.

Yeah. Pretty much nailed it.

Kos arrived in 2010.

Oct 2010: Arsenal 0 - Chelsea 2. (Drogba got 1)
Dec 2010: Arsenal 3 - Chelsea 1 (Ivan)
Oct 2011: Arsenal 5 - Chelsea 3. Drogba didn't play.
Apr 2012: Arsenal 0 - Chelsea 0.

Then Drogba left.

Talkin out your hoop!!!

In fact they were two rare years when Arsenal had the better of Chelsea.

Francie Barrett

The Talking Bread wrote: »

In the end he couldn't get regular game time at Barca and likewise he has not lived up to standards at all at Chelsea.

Nonsense. He won a La Liga at Barca and a Premier League title at Chelsea.

The tragedy for Fabregas is that he didn't leave Arsenal sooner in his career.

Ol' Donie

Francie Barrett wrote: »

As a back-up player in a team of 23.

Really? A back up?

But still in it, right?

As an Arsenal player. Right?

Francie Barrett

The Talking Bread wrote: »

But yeah.....wenger Wenger Wenger ..arsenal mentality...brittle...losing mentality....bla bla

But it's true. Even Arsenal fans I know don't deny it. In a season where all your rivals imploded, your team still managed to lose their bottle.

There is a serious losers mentality at Arsenal.

The Talking Bread

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Nonsense. He won a La Liga at Barca and a Premier League title at Chelsea.

The tragedy for Fabregas is that he didn't leave Arsenal sooner in his career.

You are twisting what I said. !

Ol' Donie

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Nonsense. He won a La Liga at Barca and a Premier League title at Chelsea.

The tragedy for Fabregas is that he didn't leave Arsenal sooner in his career.

Love it. I'm sure as he laces up his boots going for three Euros in a row, he's thinking what a ****in tragedy it's all been.

And this stupid World Cup medal. Never would have got this if I hadn't put Iniesta through in the final. When I still played for Arsenal.

Someone get me a BeeGees record. I need a soundtrack for this ****.

Francie Barrett

Ol' Donie wrote: »

Really? A back up?

But still in it, right?

As an Arsenal player. Right?

But a player who went onto better things after released from the shackles of mediocrity. I really think he is a player who is so good that he can throw off his disadvantaged past. Just like he did when winning a La Liga at Barca and a Premier League at Chelsea.

The Talking Bread

Francie Barrett wrote: »

But it's true. Even Arsenal fans I know don't deny it. In a season where all your rivals imploded, your team still managed to lose their bottle.

There is a serious losers mentality at Arsenal.

I don't support arsenal, not that that matters. And yes the club at this moment has some serious issues getting over final hurdles. But the initial point was that players at Arsenal have a losing mentality and therefore they will be weaknesses of France. Even though the two arsenal players currently in the team are 2 of the most consistent players for France over last few years in a french team full of fine players.

People are saying anyone associated with wenger has a losing mentality. It's nonsense. Wenger is reaching the end of his tether but it is rare a player under him has not improved under his management.

Arghus

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Fabregas didn't even start most of those games, so please don't overplay his influence on Spain during that period.

He may not have started but he did play in every single game, usually as the first substitute to come on and he started two of the games, including the final. I think Fabregas did plenty in 2008.

Francie Barrett

I am certainly that France and a mentally fragile cohort of Arsenal players will not be winning any European championship. In fact, I don't think they will even make the final. Will any forum regular be willing to take me on in a bet? €10 to a charity of your choice they will not even make the final. The opposite goes for me.

Ol' Donie

Francie Barrett wrote: »

But it's true. Even Arsenal fans I know don't deny it. In a season where all your rivals imploded, your team still managed to lose their bottle.

There is a serious losers mentality at Arsenal.

Heh. All their rivals implode, Arsenal finish above them, and that makes Arsenal mediocre.

Jesus.

The Talking Bread

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I am certainly that France and a mentally fragile cohort of Arsenal players will not be winning any European championship. In fact, I don't think they will even make the final. Will any forum regular be willing to take me on in a bet? €10 to a charity of your choice they will not even make the final. The opposite goes for me.

The odds are against all the 24 teams to reach the final.no one is saying they will reach any final, just this bsh@t based on 2 arsenal players being part of the starting 11 that they are mentally fragile(payet is 29, what has he won, who does he play for? It doesn't mean he doesn't have a winning mindset)

Romania are a decent team with a confident organised defence. France scored twice against them and created 4 or 5 clear cut chances which on anote day may have gone in. Romania conceded the same amount of goals tonight as the total amount they conceded in their last 10 competitive matches.

Writing them off because they looked a bit nervous tonight, as most teams can be in such a huge match. It was their first competitive match in a few years so the intensity was going to be different for them as a collective unit. After getting over that hurdle in such fashion the camp will be buzzing.A couple of decent wins in their next two matches as I am sure they will complete and momentum grows.

callaway92

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Romania are a decent team with a confident organised defence. France scored twice against them and created 4 or 5 clear cut chances which on anote day may have gone in. Romania conceded the same amount of goals tonight as the total amount they conceded in their last 10 competitive matches.

Romania are sh1t man. They will def lose to Switzerland too. This was just an exception being the tournament opener.

Nobody was saying they are a decent team before tonight's match.

The Talking Bread

callaway92 wrote: »

Romania are sh1t man. They will def lose to Switzerland too. This was just an exception being the tournament opener.

Nobody was saying they are a decent team before tonight's match.

They are not **** "man". . They are clearly a very organised and disciplined team. Just because they don't have a hope of winning doesn't make them shot. Sort of statement a 13 year old would come out with! And even if Switzerland bet them they wouldn't necessarily be "****".

Why is it an exception because it was the tournament opener? Do they automatically go from sh1t to looking a good little team because they get to play first!

callaway92

The Talking Bread wrote: »

They are not **** "man". . They are clearly a very organised and disciplined team. Just because they don't have a hope of winning doesn't make them shot. Sort of statement a 13 year old would come out with! And even if Switzerland bet them they wouldn't necessarily be "****".

Why is it an exception because it was the tournament opener? Do they automatically go from sh1t to looking a good little team because they get to play first!

Any team can have once off performances like that, especially with France having the pressure of being hosts etc. and it being their first game, I don't see how you can't understand that.

Romania rank around the level of Albania in this tournament, prob worst 3 teams really

Thanks for the comment about it being what a 13 year old would say, much appreciated.

I was just pointing out that you were wayyy overestimating their quality.

Their qualifying group was also rubbish.

The Talking Bread

callaway92 wrote: »

Any team can have once off performances like that, especially with France having the pressure of being hosts etc. and it being their first game, I don't see how you can't understand that.

Romania rank around the level of Albania in this tournament, prob worst 3 teams really

Thanks for the comment about it being what a 13 year old would say, much appreciated.

I was just pointing out that you were wayyy overestimating their quality.

Their qualifying group was also rubbish.

I wasn't overestimating them at all!! I merely said they are not a bad side. Which they aren't. They were unbeaten in qualifying, albeit in a poor group. 2 goals conceded in last ten matches. Lost in ladt minute to tournament favourites. pundits gave them due respect whilst acknowledging they are limited going forward.

To merely say "they are ****" is hardly a very adult way of debating their credentials. No need to be offended when I say that.

Everything I said about them was based on fact. Hardly waaaaaaayyyyyy overestimating them!

Peist2007

gosplan wrote: »

Yeah. Pretty much nailed it.

Kos arrived in 2010.

Oct 2010: Arsenal 0 - Chelsea 2. (Drogba got 1)
Dec 2010: Arsenal 3 - Chelsea 1 (Ivan)
Oct 2011: Arsenal 5 - Chelsea 3. Drogba didn't play.
Apr 2012: Arsenal 0 - Chelsea 0.

Then Drogba left.

Talkin out your hoop!!!

In fact they were two rare years when Arsenal had the better of Chelsea.

Goals are but one parameter. A centre forward dominating a centre half has more to it than simply goals. But, as you were.

Irish_rat

Ol' Donie wrote: »

Love it. Bloody Arsenal mindset. Good solid Evra.

Giroud scores.

Stupid Arsenal.

Giroud scores after how many chances? Also the guy has no mobility, the French attack was very slow on the counter .

Lets see how they fare in the next game. I'd love to see Martial start. France should stop trying to play with a target man. Its unnecessary.

CSF

Peist2007 wrote: »

Goals are but one parameter. A centre forward dominating a centre half has more to it than simply goals. But, as you were.

Ah here, you're after being completely found out as spoofing. It's embarrassing for all involved to try and carry it on or pass it off as 'well that's my opinion'.

I'd be pretty delighted if the defenders at my club could be made look like a child by a striker and he'd only bag 1 goal in the 4 games he was at the club for.

Just admit that you were working off the assumption that Koscielny was there when Drogba used to go through Arsenal for a shortcut like.

CSF

Irish_rat wrote: »

Giroud scores after how many chances? Also the guy has no mobility, the French attack was very slow on the counter .

Lets see how they fare in the next game. I'd love to see Martial start. France should stop trying to play with a target man. Its unnecessary.

Giroud was much more threatening than Griezmann when he was on and more threatening than Martial who didn't really get into the game too much when he came on.

Surely not one of the candidates to be dropped after what wasn't even that disappointing a French performance last night. I sure hope not as I've him
backed EW for top scorer, he's now joint favourite too.

gosplan

Peist2007 wrote: »

Goals are but one parameter. A centre forward dominating a centre half has more to it than simply goals. But, as you were.

Sure thing buddy. I mean how could you be wrong?

Guy scores 15 in 15 vrs Arsenal but only 1 in 3 vrs Arsenal with Koscielny playing.

Good 'dominating' there.

Any evidence of it or just your random memories which seem to be wildly inaccurate.

Also notice you said 'ALL the times he looked like a kid playing Drogba'.
Pretty weird given they only met three times.

cj maxx

Pogba and greizman were poor last night but i'd hope that was only a blip . With those two , kante and payet , a top class keeper in lloris id fancy them to get their act together and do well..
Evra looked shot

Riders Of Rohan

People who want Giroud dropped really dont understand how the French play, I love Gignac but he just isnt as good as Giroud for the way France play.
A front 3 of Martial, Griezman and Coman sounds great on paper, but they it wouldnt work, they are all two similar

callaway92

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I wasn't overestimating them at all!! I merely said they are not a bad side. Which they aren't. They were unbeaten in qualifying, albeit in a poor group. 2 goals conceded in last ten matches. Lost in ladt minute to tournament favourites. pundits gave them due respect whilst acknowledging they are limited going forward.

To merely say "they are ****" is hardly a very adult way of debating their credentials. No need to be offended when I say that.

Everything I said about them was based on fact. Hardly waaaaaaayyyyyy overestimating them!

Look, we will see how they play in their next two.

callaway92

Riders Of Rohan wrote: »

People who want Giroud dropped really dont understand how the French play, I love Gignac but he just isnt as good as Giroud for the way France play.
A front 3 of Martial, Griezman and Coman sounds great on paper, but they it wouldnt work, they are all two similar

Ya exactly, people just seem to think they should lump all of their best players (on paper) into the team. But they are a great bench to have in fairness and will take serious stopping if they aren't going to win overall.

The Talking Bread

callaway92 wrote: »

Look, we will see how they play in their next two.

I was basing what I said which was all factually true on tonight's game and their previous 10 qualification games. Yet you came out with a statement "Romania are sh1t" based on, I haven't a clue?!

They are no threat to winning and may not even get out of the group but they have shown the 11 previous competitive matches that they are are an alright team at the least and by far not a "shut team"

All I was asking you to say was why you consider them a sh1t team based on the last two years and not come out with stuff akin to "they are sh1t, I'll prove it to you when Switzerland beat them" and "every team plus well in the first game"!!!

Drexel

Peist2007 wrote: »

Goals are but one parameter. A centre forward dominating a centre half has more to it than simply goals. But, as you were.

You haven't a clue. You used drogba dominating Kos as a stick to beat him with when in reality they have hardly met.

klose

Riders Of Rohan wrote: »

People who want Giroud dropped really dont understand how the French play, I love Gignac but he just isnt as good as Giroud for the way France play.
A front 3 of Martial, Griezman and Coman sounds great on paper, but they it wouldnt work, they are all two similar

I would agree, griezmann is more a second striker for atleti and martial has more often played lw for united, like you say its a lightweight, all to similar front 3.

Still think not bringing lacazette or gameiro was a mistake for Deschamps. I also must say again that this team of very talented players could be much more better utilised than just pumping crosses into giroud, seems a bit of a waste.

callaway92

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I was basing what I said which was all factually true on tonight's game and their previous 10 qualification games. Yet you came out with a statement "Romania are sh1t" based on, I haven't a clue?!

They are no threat to winning and may not even get out of the group but they have shown the 11 previous competitive matches that they are are an alright team at the least and by far not a "shut team"

All I was asking you to say was why you consider them a sh1t team based on the last two years and not come out with stuff akin to "they are sh1t, I'll prove it to you when Switzerland beat them" and "every team plus well in the first game"!!!

That's not even close to what I said.

I do expect Switzerland to beat them and probably a draw or a loss to Albania, but I think their performances will be awful, reflecting their quality.

The Talking Bread

callaway92 wrote: »

That's not even close to what I said.

I do expect Switzerland to beat them and probably a draw or a loss to Albania, but I think their performances will be awful, reflecting their quality.

Going on what evidence???!! I suppose you have done your homework and followed them overy the last 2 years !!
Im not claiming to have done so btw, i was just looking at the facts of their qualofication, looking at preview articles and watching the game last night.
You said they were shot and will definitely lose to Switzerland?!
Yet you are giving me no reason why a team who lost their first match in 11 competitive matches to a last minute wonder goal are so "sh1t".
They are clearly a team that will be competitive in matches they play in . How in God's name is that "sh1t"?!!
I also believe Swiss will beat them but again The Swiss are quiet a decent team. They have 3 or 4 excellent players and a solid collective unit.

Teams losing a match doesn't make them sh1t. I just don't know what basis you have to play on to knock them down that much. Have you been following them? We're they lucky not to concede more than 2 goals in 10 matches, none away from home. We're they lucky to go unbeaten?
I'm not saying they are in anyway a threat and we all know France were below par last night but people were going on as if they were up against Andorra at times! They have little attacking threat to really dominate a game against a team like France or any of the top sides but they are cohesive in defence, tough in midfield and play with good discipline.

Is it because they have no what some may call "famous players" ? I'm just trying to figure it out?

All you are saying is ...you will see when they lose to Switzerland! Basing your point on how you predict a match will pan out! Sorry, it just doesn't make any sense?!

Only thing is perhaps you don't consider the word sh1t such a hyperbolic word?

Anyway this is going nowhere!

callaway92

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Going on what evidence???!! I suppose you have done your homework and followed them overy the last 2 years !!
Im not claiming to have done so btw, i was just looking at the facts of their qualofication, looking at preview articles and watching the game last night.
You said they were shot and will definitely lose to Switzerland?!
Yet you are giving me no reason why a team who lost their first match in 11 competitive matches to a last minute wonder goal are so "sh1t".
They are clearly a team that will be competitive in matches they play in . How in God's name is that "sh1t"?!!
I also believe Swiss will beat them but again The Swiss are quiet a decent team. They have 3 or 4 excellent players and a solid collective unit.

Teams losing a match doesn't make them sh1t. I just don't know what basis you have to play on to knock them down that much. Have you been following them? We're they lucky not to concede more than 2 goals in 10 matches, none away from home. We're they lucky to go unbeaten?
I'm not saying they are in anyway a threat and we all know France were below par last night but people were going on as if they were up against Andorra at times! They have little attacking threat to really dominate a game against a team like France or any of the top sides but they are cohesive in defence, tough in midfield and play with good discipline.

Is it because they have no what some may call "famous players" ? I'm just trying to figure it out?

All you are saying is ...you will see when they lose to Switzerland! Basing your point on how you predict a match will pan out! Sorry, it just doesn't make any sense?!

Only thing is perhaps you don't consider the word sh1t such a hyperbolic word?

Anyway this is going nowhere!

Jays us

The Talking Bread

callaway92 wrote: »

Jays us

A much more logical and sensible post than "Romania are sh1t man..." :rolleyes:

The Dragon Reborn

klose wrote: »

I would agree, griezmann is more a second striker for atleti and martial has more often played lw for united, like you say its a lightweight, all to similar front 3.

Still think not bringing lacazette or gameiro was a mistake for Deschamps. I also must say again that this team of very talented players could be much more better utilised than just pumping crosses into giroud, seems a bit of a waste.

They really have a crazy amount of fire power. Gignac is needed in the squad imo with Benzema being left out as if Giroud gets injured they have no one else to step in. Sissoko out and Gameiro in would have been my call, either way they are my pick to win

eagle eye

Personally I was thinking before the tournament that they are a bit weak in defense. Last night proved that and when you meet the better sides that is going to cost you. Evra is a liability and Rami is an even bigger one imo. I'm not convinced about Koscielny either but Sagna is a class act.

I think they should move Matuidi to left full back.

Irish_rat

eagle eye wrote: »

Personally I was thinking before the tournament that they are a bit weak in defense. Last night proved that and when you meet the better sides that is going to cost you. Evra is a liability and Rami is an even bigger one imo. I'm not convinced about Koscielny either but Sagna is a class act.

I think they should move Matuidi to left full back.

I think they are very weak in defense. World class midfield and goalkeeper though.