I'm about to become a landlord; looking for advice

M3CS

Hi all,

I’m about to let out a property for the first time and I here looking for some information and some advice. First, a bit of background - I’ve got a 3-bedroom house in South Dublin that I’ve decided to rent out. I’ve never been a landlord before so the process is all new to me and I’m hoping to get some advice here as to what steps I should take. The house itself is almost ready to move into – I know I now need to advertise it, go through all of the applications, decide on a tenant and take a deposit along with the first months rent into a bank account – I’m sure there’s more to it than just those steps though, what am I missing?

The house was in a bad way when I got it but has now been completely renovated – everything is brand new, from the kitchen to the bathrooms to the floors. Naturally, I want to protect my investment and ensure that the tenants will look after and respect the property while they’re living there. How often am I legally allowed to inspect the house and how much notice has to be given?

I’m planning on advertising the property myself on daft.ie instead of going through an agent – is there any reason why I shouldn’t do this?

I’ve been told by a couple of people that, as I’ve spent around €40k on the renovation, the rent I receive from the property for the first year or two would be subject to a lower tax rate – is this true?

Sorry if these questions seem stupid but this is all completely new to me.

Any advice appreciated.

Gumbo

Document everything after you rent out the place.
Any works you done up to now does not qualify for tax reduction including the 40k you've just spent.

athtrasna

Get an accountant (they are tax deductible) to advise you on your tax liabilities. As the previous poster said, pre-letting expenses are not tax deductible however you can claim for depreciation on fixtures and fittings over eight years.

Tenant references are very important, check them out. You can't legally advertise that you won't accept rent allowance but the majority of landlords on here will advise against it for many reasons.

Familiarise yourself with the Residential Tenancies Act, regarding your rights of access and responsibilities towards the tenants.

I would seek more than a month's deposit in the current climate, two months will give you more security.

JTPB

M3CS wrote: »

Hi all,

The house was in a bad way when I got it but has now been completely renovated – everything is brand new, from the kitchen to the bathrooms to the floors.

Sounds spotless and exquisite, but really, there may be no need for it to be a 4-star accommodation. Fire alarms, Winter insulation,washer-dryers and no leaking roofs come first. But if you're attracting that type of tenant, how's the parking?

M3CS wrote: »

Naturally, I want to protect my investment and ensure that the tenants will look after and respect the property while they’re living there. How often am I legally allowed to inspect the house and how much notice has to be given?

I can't say legally, but I'm a very long-term tenant myself, and I have occasionally seen other tenants resent Landlady's presence if she was spending 30 min to i hour 3 or 4 times a week for no apparent purpose. These, though, were a small few fussy tenants; nobody else objected.

M3CS wrote: »

Any advice appreciated.

Tenants vary widely, females tend to be more clean, but fussy; but the huge major things you need to watch out for are a) Con Artists, and b) property-wreckers.

Collect rent every week for the 1st 3 months.

Keep stuff of sentimental value out of harm's way.

Expect the possibility of friction between tenants.
That's all I can think of.

JTPB

athtrasna wrote: »

You can't legally advertise that you won't accept rent allowance ........

.

That's High Farce.

Just because the Landperson can't advertise she/he won't accept rent allowance imposes zero obligations on the Landperson to even *consider* accepting rent allowance.

"Sorry, but my cousin rang me wanting the room".

Govt. know this, of course.

I don't know why Govt. don't take over the property sector completely, and take it out of Private hands altogether.

I pay the 50% tax on Rental Income that my Landlord pays, but if the Government, or Local Governmant were renting to me, they would get 100% of my rent.

First you need to decide if you let house to one tenant or if you rent rooms to individuals. The latter is messier but much easier to get rid of a bad tenant (more correctly licensee).
Usual inspection period is every six months or anually. Dont collect rent yourself, get them to set up monthly standing orders.
And do consider getting an agent. A good agent saves you a lot of hassle.

TG1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

First you need to decide if you let house to one tenant or if you rent rooms to individuals. The latter is messier but much easier to get rid of a bad tenant (more correctly licensee).
.

They would not be licencees unless the owner lives there. If they are just renting rooms separately each person is still a tennant with the same notice rights etc.

RoryW

TG1 wrote: »

They would not be licencees unless the owner lives there. If they are just renting rooms separately each person is still a tennant with the same notice rights etc.

I was told by PRTB before that renting by the room when not living in house that a license agreement would apply

TG1

RoryW wrote: »

I was told by PRTB before that renting by the room when not living in house that a license agreement would apply

Usual practice when renting a room in a shared house that I've found is you each sign the lease. Once a lease is in place you have tennant rights as far as I know, an old housemate disputed a held deposit through the prtb and it was heard. I'm not sure how it works without a lease as I've never taken a room without one but I don't think renting a room in a shared house without an owner occupier automatically makes you a licencee as outlined above.

RoryW

kceire wrote: »

Any works you done up to now does not qualify for tax reduction including the 40k you've just spent.

Not 100% correct

Need to examine what the money was spent on

repairs - pre letting - non deductible

capital - pre letting - added to cost of property for CGT purposes for future disposal of property and deduction possible then

fixtures and fittings - pre letting - this would be the tables, chairs, beds etc - these are allowable over 8 years at 12.5% per annum

If you have a mortgage and are renting out then :
( from page 84 of http://www.revenue.ie/en/practitioner/law/notes-for-guidance/tca/part04.pdf )

With effect from 1 January 2006 relief is denied in respect of interest on borrowed money applied in the purchase, improvement or repair of rented residential properties unless the person making the claim can show that the registration requirements of Part 7 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 have, in the year for which the relief is claimed, been complied with in respect of all tenancies which existed in relation to that premises in that year.

Where evidence of registration of a tenancy is required by the Revenue Commissioners in relation to a claim under this section, a written communication from the Private Residential Tenancies Board will meet that requirement.


See http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/rental-income.html#section2 for deductions.

As mentioned accountants fees are tax deductible (and as an accountant I would say worth the money,

Say fee is 450 + VAT = 553.50. Tax relief at 52% (PAYE 40%, PRSI 4%, USC 8%) so net cost is 265.68. In the overall scheme of things small money to help you keep things right.

If loan on property, need to advise ban of change of use

Ensure house insurance is changed to cover rental property

If you are getting mortgage relief (TRS) then ceases once no longer PPR

Suggest open a separate bank account used just for rental income and expenses going forward as easy to monitor and also tenants are not given your main bank account details.

Have fun ! :-)

TG1

TG1 wrote: »

Usual practice when renting a room in a shared house that I've found is you each sign the lease. Once a lease is in place you have tennant rights as far as I know, an old housemate disputed a held deposit through the prtb and it was heard. I'm not sure how it works without a lease as I've never taken a room without one but I don't think renting a room in a shared house without an owner occupier automatically makes you a licencee as outlined above.

if separate leases - tenant rights to room and licence to share the common rooms.

tuisginideach

As above.

The house I bought for myself a number of years ago is now rented to students. The tenancies which caused hassle are:
(i) all female tenancies - ironing on carpets, makeup/false tan everywhere, bitching & fighting between themselves and then complaining to me (even though they all knew each other beforehand, and I knew none of them), the tenant who wasn't 'liked' then bringing a dog in to live with her for company, trying to avoid paying bin collection charges by dumping everything in recycling bin ...
(ii) tenancies in which there were female students - lads left at end of college year, females wanted to stay on for summer jobs - I know now why lads got out!
(iii) Non-Irish IT staff (male & female) with a global company - bathroom had to be completely replaced after them. Appeared very nice in every way and were always very pleasant but oh my God, were they filthy. We discovered (within a week of it happening) they had an Alsation pup in a cage in the kitchen while they were at work all day ....

My experience is that the Irish male college students I have had as tenants may be untidy but they are not lazy or dirty. And over the years, male tenants have been treated to all sorts of home baking by the neighbours, old and young, who see them as nice lads away from their mammies!


For OP - always check references - don't accept what it says on a landlord's letter without phoning him/her.

My deposit is 1.5 times the rent. (Wasn't doing it at the time of the IT people but sadly, it wouldn't even have been 25% of the amount needed to clean up after them)

Make sure bills are paid in full and on time.

Always meet all the tenants before they move in.

I email all communication with tenants and include them all on the email (if not a private matter, obviously) - in that way I have a record of all arrangements, agreements, transactions.

Photograph everything beforehand and as you go around house with tenants beforehand, show them the spotlessly clean toilet, shower glass, oven, fridge, defrosted freezer, hob etc and explain that they are to be returned to you in same condition. I always inform at start of tenancy and nearing end that I can recommend a contract cleaner for them if they wish, OR if they leave the house dirty, I will be getting it contract cleaned at their expense.

Register with RTB (Not that it will do you much good).

Inform tenants they must insure their own property - that is not your responsibility.

Request that they dry clothes outdoor (if possible) rather than indoor.

I never use an agent - I want to know who is in my property and to feel comfortable with them.

I too recommend a separate account for rental income - makes it very easy to keep track.

K.Flyer

Speaking as someone who has been in and out of hundreds of rented houses and apartments to carry out maintenance, there is absolutely no set guarantee that a certain class of person, gender or nationality will be better at looking after your property. I have been shocked at the state of some places from those I would have expected better from and amazed by those who, lets say, I didn't think keeping the place spotless would have been their first priority, but the property was kept immaculate.
Ask for and follow up on references before agreeing to rent to someone. I have seen girls in a rental agency doing this and noticed that its how they ask the questions, trying to ensure that it not a friend of their potential new tenants that they are speaking with.
Make sure Everything works properly.
I know you spent a large amount of money, but take the time to check that Everything does what its supposed to do. Nothing worse than finding out over the first few days or weeks that something is not right and you need to get someone out to fix it.
Best of luck.

M3CS

JTPB wrote: »

Sounds spotless and exquisite, but really, there may be no need for it to be a 4-star accommodation. Fire alarms, Winter insulation,washer-dryers and no leaking roofs come first. But if you're attracting that type of tenant, how's the parking?

The driveway has space for one car with more spaces on the road if necessary. The house is in a quiet estate facing a large green so if whoever moves in requires two or even three spaces it wouldn't be a problem as parking is free.

JTPB wrote: »

I can't say legally, but I'm a very long-term tenant myself, and I have occasionally seen other tenants resent Landlady's presence if she was spending 30 min to i hour 3 or 4 times a week for no apparent purpose.

JTPB wrote: »

Tenants vary widely, females tend to be more clean, but fussy; but the huge major things you need to watch out for are a) Con Artists, and b) property-wreckers.

I've seen properties that have been absolutely destroyed by tenants that just had no respect whatsoever for their landlords houses - this is a huge concern for me. When I meet potential tenants I'm going to explain this and ask if they would have any issue with me coming for a quick visit every three months just to ensure that it is being looked after, that there are no leaks and that everything is in working order. If the first couple of visits go well then they will become less frequent. Is this unreasonable?

M3CS

I should have mentioned in my original post that my preference would be to get a family in the house. I don't think the house is suited for students at all so I won't be going down that road.

K.Flyer wrote: »

Ask for and follow up on references before agreeing to rent to someone. I have seen girls in a rental agency doing this and noticed that its how they ask the questions, trying to ensure that it not a friend of their potential new tenants that they are speaking with.

This is something that has been on my mind, too. I will be requesting references from any applicants that I follow up with and I was wondering what questions I should ask to ensure that the person on the other end of the phone is in fact the potential tentants former landlord and not their best mate

M3CS

I downloaded a residential tenancies agreement PDF last night and just had a quick look through it to familiarise myself with everything (I can't post links but I searched for 'Residential tenancy agreement download' and used the first two results). Are these free templates worth the paper they're written on or should I just go to my solicitor and have him draw up the contract?

M3CS

M3CS wrote: »

s I'm going to explain this and ask if they would have any issue with me coming for a quick visit every three months just to ensure that it is being looked after, that there are no leaks and that everything is in working order.

Don't ask if they would have an issue. Tell them thats the way it is. Three months is a bit frequest but on the initial basis you describe it would be ok. You need to give reasonable notice before you inspect, of course.
Also be aware that every time you visit you might get extra 'jobs' which will cost you..

Don't rule out getting an agent. Good agents know how to relate to tenants and also have trademen on call to take care of emergencies.

K.Flyer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

...
Don't rule out getting an agent. Good agents know how to relate to tenants and also have trademen on call to take care of emergencies.

Some agencies can save you a lot of trouble and hassle and keep ot all running smoothly.
Unfortunately some also use DIYers who are a friend or relation of theirs, not properly skilled or insured, who will cost you more money in the long run.
I also know a good few landlords who take care of things themselves quite successfully managing their own properties using their own tradesmen whenever there is a problem.

Mrs OBumble

Inspect every three-months. You have to give at least 24 hours notice and do it at an agreed time, I'd insist that the tenants must be there.

Take a set of pictures at move in and each time you inspect.

I really wouldn't do this without a good letting agent, hard to find one admittedly but essential for the inexperienced Landlord.

lcwill

Just get an agent - in a few years time when you better understand the business you can think about self managing - or keep going with the agent when you realize how much hassle it saves you!

I wouldn't consider self managing unless I was retired with too much time on my hands.

Hazydays123

We've been renting our current property for 6 yrs. The landlord hasn't been here since the first month when there was a slight issue with the place.

We have a relationship whereby he is very hands-off which suits us 100% as we value our privacy. If you choose well and have mature adult professional tenants, you should treat them as such.

We have spent a lot of our own money fixing any problems that arose during the tenancy. We view this as our home and are invested in it. However, if our landlord insisted upon 3 monthly inspections, I think i'd respond by calling him around for even the tiniest of problems.

Basically, treat your tenants like children and they will respond as such. Good luck.

JustAThought

Don't bother with eatate agents - naturally , as seen here, they tout for business but they typically only do what you would, have less interest in the property , & will cost you two months mortgage for very little, and all & any jobs you want/need done will have the aer lingus aporoach of quick easy fix & high prices -passed onto you. The 'management package' they now try to flog to unsuspecting newbies is very poor - typically a pick up service after hours which will typically asks the caller to ring back at office hours - next the tenants will ring you & bother you anyway - that'll be a months mortgage & the price & service & % they put on the service they get for your beautiful house. Quality & workmanship unknown.

I've stopped counting the amount of times I've been robbed by tenants - either directly - Bills - Large roll over EBS & Gas for hundreds of euro- left unpaid, rent unpaid & in the few days grave you give before checking they have disappeared, damage costing significant anounts to be fixed - bathroom flooded through cealing through cealing to wooden floor below, matresses soaked in bodily fluids & really needed to be thrown out ( girls do take off protective matress covers), kitchen counter tops used directly to cut on & permanently damaged, desks stood on to change lightbulb & broken in half by fat f****** ; - all expensive to fix & not something you might overlook like marks on walks or spilt coffee/wine on carpets or rings on kitchen tabels and these were didferent people who seemed decent & played the part.

A few years ago I started asking for one month up front & two months rent as a deposit & despite being a bit apprehensive about getting this my market didn't bat an eyelid. I would request this as a minimum - if they can't afford this they can't affird the house - simples. And that was before the water charges which could ruin you. My last tenAnt used 6 times what a normal family of four would - two baths a day. Unbelievable. 'Important in their culture' my a**e.

I'd be looking for corporates - advertising / sending a sign in for staff messageboards through HR departments in some of the big multinationals that often have families moving & assist them with deposits to relocate.

I'd be looking for two sets of work references & checking - things like will current length of contract enable them to fulfill the 2 year contract they want to sign with you, ability to comfortably pay (x) amount from the basic salary if its a high rent & past landlords - no mobiles & google them too if possible. I'd also be insisting on a jointly & severally contract if you are going with singles (which I wouldn't) & regardless make sure all bills are in their name & that you notify & check with your service providers and amend your house insurance to tell them you have tenants & get & pay the tenant damage insurance premium. Live & learn.


Some people get in pay as you go card meters which I personally hate but it means e200 ro get rid of when you finish renting & unless they have ( gas/LX) card credit the services will not work. I personally would never rent a place with them but for a different market I would consider them. You don't get stung for mad bills then - but putting the bills in their names gets around that a bit - as does them setting up direct debits for bills.

In my last two cases I found it helpful to photo document the rooms - some carpets Already had some damage so this was good for both sides - but alao take wide angle shots ao you can see that eg the furniture wasn't burnt by joss sticks or the rest of the carpet was perfect, and the bed had a headboard & there was a rug on the floor...

Welcome to the world of wondering what kind of people are out there & where they were brought up.

I'd also get a tenant only disposable phone - don't use your private or work one whatever you do.

JustAThought

JustAThought wrote: »

Don't bother with eatate agents - naturally , as seen here, they tout for business but they typically only do what you would, have less interest in the property , & will cost you two months mortgage for very little, and all & any jobs you want/need done will have the aer lingus aporoach of quick easy fix & high prices -passed onto you. The 'management package' they now try to flog to unsuspecting newbies is very poor - typically a pick up service after hours which will typically asks the caller to ring back at office hours - next the tenants will ring you & bother you anyway - that'll be a months mortgage & the price & service & % they put on the service they get for your beautiful house. Quality & workmanship unknown.

I've stopped counting the amount of times I've been robbed by tenants - either directly - Bills - Large roll over EBS & Gas for hundreds of euro- left unpaid, rent unpaid & in the few days grave you give before checking they have disappeared, damage costing significant anounts to be fixed - bathroom flooded through cealing through cealing to wooden floor below, matresses soaked in bodily fluids & really needed to be thrown out ( girls do take off protective matress covers), kitchen counter tops used directly to cut on & permanently damaged, desks stood on to change lightbulb & broken in half by fat f****** ; - all expensive to fix & not something you might overlook like marks on walks or spilt coffee/wine on carpets or rings on kitchen tabels and these were didferent people who seemed decent & played the part.

A few years ago I started asking for one month up front & two months rent as a deposit & despite being a bit apprehensive about getting this my market didn't bat an eyelid. I would request this as a minimum - if they can't afford this they can't affird the house - simples. And that was before the water charges which could ruin you. My last tenAnt used 6 times what a normal family of four would - two baths a day. Unbelievable. 'Important in their culture' my a**e.

I'd be looking for corporates - advertising / sending a sign in for staff messageboards through HR departments in some of the big multinationals that often have families moving & assist them with deposits to relocate.

I'd be looking for two sets of work references & checking - things like will current length of contract enable them to fulfill the 2 year contract they want to sign with you, ability to comfortably pay (x) amount from the basic salary if its a high rent & past landlords - no mobiles & google them too if possible. I'd also be insisting on a jointly & severally contract if you are going with singles (which I wouldn't) & regardless make sure all bills are in their name & that you notify & check with your service providers and amend your house insurance to tell them you have tenants & get & pay the tenant damage insurance premium. Live & learn.


Some people get in pay as you go card meters which I personally hate but it means e200 ro get rid of when you finish renting & unless they have ( gas/LX) card credit the services will not work. I personally would never rent a place with them but for a different market I would consider them. You don't get stung for mad bills then - but putting the bills in their names gets around that a bit - as does them setting up direct debits for bills.

In my last two cases I found it helpful to photo document the rooms - some carpets Already had some damage so this was good for both sides - but alao take wide angle shots ao you can see that eg the furniture wasn't burnt by joss sticks or the rest of the carpet was perfect, and the bed had a headboard & there was a rug on the floor...

Welcome to the world of wondering what kind of people are out there & where they were brought up.

I'd also get a tenant only disposable phone - don't use your private or work one whatever you do.

This is most if what you need OP, great post!

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

I really wouldn't do this without a good letting agent, hard to find one admittedly but essential for the inexperienced Landlord.

Letting agents are a waste of time and money imo. Much better or looking after it yourself and making sure things are held to your standard not the letting agents. No way would I have someone else looking after a house I owned. I'd be doing inspections very 3 months and want to be doing them myself.

The amount of work is vastly exaggerated on here too particularly as its all newly done up so won't have problems with items breaking etc or shouldn't anyway. I'd say I contact my LL once a year on average, he rings a tradesman who rings me and I arrange it form there. Any LL I've had has had basically no work at all to do in years of renting. A quick phone call once or twice a year is the level of hassle they have had.

Kaylee Narrow Pianist

Kaylee Narrow Pianist wrote: »

Letting agents are a waste of time and money imo..........

As a landlord for the last 11 years I don't agree
Depends on the value you place on your own time of course. Getting tenants is in itself time consuming, I think I'm on my 6th tenants at this stage. If I lived next door to my investment property I would still use my letting agent.

JustAThought wrote: »

...... will cost you two months mortgage for very little...........

2 months mortgage?

Mine is 6% of the annual lease, it's a deductible expense, the out of pocket cost is minimal.

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

As a landlord for the last 11 years I don't agree
Depends on the value you place on your own time of course. Getting tenants is in itself time consuming, I think I'm on my 6th tenants at this stage. If I lived next door to my investment property I would still use my letting agent.

If I was involved in renting a house/houses I would want to be running it myself. I actually quite like the idea of it actually so a letting agent would be the last thing I'd want. As I said from my experience of renting the amount of work is minimal I'd want to be more involved than the LLs I have had are/have been.

You mention finding tenants, no way in earth would I want someone else vetting tenants for my property, I'd want to be choosing the people myself and I'd want to be inspecting regularly to see exactly how my property is being looked after. Not have some letting agent who doesn't care doing it and charging me for the pleasure.

Each to their own

From my experience I've had an 11 years troublefree experience over multiple tenancies, the common denominator is the letting agent I've been using from day one.

The out of pocket expense is reasonable and the service provided is value imo.

I can see where you are coming from, when I was younger with no properties etc etc I thought the idea of doing what you describe was appealing, when it came to it I opted to go a different route and am very happy with my choice.

I'm speaking from experience of being a landlord, you're not
I also have experience as a tenant to go along with yours.

newacc2015

Augeo wrote: »

Each to their own

From my experience I've had an 11 years troublefree experience over multiple tenancies, the common denominator is the letting agent I've been using from day one.

The out of pocket expense is reasonable and the service provided is value imo.

I can see where you are coming from, when I was younger with no properties etc etc I thought the idea of doing what you describe was appealing, when it came to it I opted to go a different route and am very happy with my choice.

I'm speaking from experience of being a landlord, you're not
I also have experience as a tenant to go along with yours.

I know dozens of landlords who collectively have well over 300 properties. None of them would touch an agent with a barge pole. Most agents fall off their chair when a lot of private landlords tell them what they get for their property.

Agents dont really care about who they put into a property. One of my family membes had to help a friend evict a non-paying tenant as their estate agent seen nothing wrong with the tenant being 3 months in arrears

IMO paying an agent 10% for letting a property a third below marker rate ( they have no real incentive to get max rent as they tend to focus on private sales rather than letting) is no value.

Most estate agents are as qualified to be managing properties as landlords ie they no zero qualifications. A lot went to the courts and paid a whopping €1,270 to get a license ( that has now changed, but existing agents didn't have to do any exams).

Look at all the threads weekly on this of people getting a rent increase letter that is incorrect ie not 90 days notice or they got a rent increase last year. It is quite scary that people are paying 10-15% settings fees to agents as they are 'experienced' and 'qualified' to do so. But it is often not the reality at all

Diemos

K.Flyer wrote: »

Unfortunately some also use DIYers who are a friend or relation of theirs, not properly skilled or insured, who will cost you more money in the long run.

This has been my experience. I won't name names (I'm probably not allowed to here) but there are a number of agencies who hire cowboys to carry out repairs.

Graham

newacc2015 wrote: »

One of my family membes had to help a friend evict a non-paying tenant as their estate agent seen nothing wrong with the tenant being 3 months in arrears

Must be handy having a solicitor in the family.