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I'm about to become a landlord; looking for advice

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    #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    TheDoc wrote: »
    Because that is being a hassle and nuisance. And maybe it was just the way I was brought up, or how I view things. But I don't like being a hassle.

    Last property(as per other thread) told the LL not to be daft coming out to sort the garden and managed it myself. And he was very complimentary on our last move out inspection of what I'd done with my GF relating to flowering and stuff.

    Its not being a hassle its asking a LL to do his job. In any case its rarely if ever the LL the does the stuff anyway he simply rings someone else to deal with it and can claim the jobs back against tax. My LL has a man that calls to do the garden and fix minor things with the house.
    TheDoc wrote: »
    hanging paintings, changing lightbulbs and all sorts of nonsense. And then our kettle broke, so we just bought a new kettle. Didn't hassle the landlord looking for a few quid of or whatever.

    None of these are the LL's responsibility anyway so of course you would deal with them yourself.
    TheDoc wrote: »
    Obviously serious issues you get in touch with the LL. We had a pipe break under the bath a while back, that was onto the landlord and plumber out to sort. The Washing machine fritzed and that needed to get sorted.

    But there was also an issue with the cooker not turning on (you know the red switch at the wall). That turned out to be a blown fuse that I sorted.

    The above are the type of thing that I would be referring to calling the LL about including fixing the blown fuse or a leaky tap etc. Yeah I could fix the tap myself but its not my job to spend money or time fixing something that's not my job. Same goes for painting (not that I've ever had or asked for painting in a rented place. No way would I pay for it or do it myself.

    TheDoc wrote: »
    But acknowledging there is a business arrangement and contract, but also appreciating my LL is a person, who just wants to make a few €€ and not get hassle, probably pushes me into treating rented properties more like my own home as opposed to just some third party investment I'm inhabiting.

    Again expecting a LL to carry out his duty is not causing hassle, I very rarely have to ask the LL for anything maybe once every 6 months that's hardly hassle. As for the last point I don't look at rented places as my home either, I consider the house I grew up in home and I see rented places as temporary place to stay until I buy.


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    #63
    Maireadio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 662 ✭✭✭Maireadio


    Kaylee Narrow Pianist wrote: »
    None of these are the LL's responsibility anyway so of course you would deal with them yourself.

    Actually, a landlord does have to provide a kettle along with a toaster, a microwave and the bigger white goods, except for a dishwater. Now, like TheDoc, I have never and would never ask the landlord to replace the kettle or toaster if they broke, I'd just buy them myself. But if a tenant wants to ask the landlord for a new kettle or toaster, they are within their rights to.


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    #64
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Maireadio wrote: »
    Actually, a landlord does have to provide a kettle along with a toaster, a microwave and the bigger white goods, except for a dishwater. Now, like TheDoc, I have never and would never ask the landlord to replace the kettle or toaster if they broke, I'd just buy them myself. But if a tenant wants to ask the landlord for a new kettle or toaster, they are within their rights to.

    That's incorrect. There's no requirement for a kettle or a toaster.
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/si/534/made/en/print


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    #65
    TheDoc
    Registered Users Posts: 23,137 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    The general point is I didn't even bother the landlord about it, where you would know of situations where some tenants would, or be looking for a few quid of the rent.


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    #66
    Maireadio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 662 ✭✭✭Maireadio


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    That's incorrect. There's no requirement for a kettle or a toaster.
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/si/534/made/en/print

    Oh right, that's changed. Well, that's good, it was silly. Hence why I would be never ask a landlord for one even if they did have to provide it. Or was it ever a thing? Maybe it was just suggested that you should provide them, though I thought it used to be a requirement.


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    #67
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Maireadio wrote: »
    Oh right, that's changed. Well, that's good, it was silly. Hence why I would be never ask a landlord for one even if they did have to provide it. Or was it ever a thing? Maybe it was just suggested that you should provide them, though I thought it used to be a requirement.

    The previous provisions were even less onerous, only requiring the facilities to install appliances for cooking rather than the appliances themselves.

    This legislation is still in force, but only for local authority housing. The 2008 regs are in force for private rented accommodation.


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    #68
    M3CS
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭M3CS


    I'm back as I've finally found tenants for my house. They're moving in next week and in the meantime I have to get a lease for them to sign to make it official. I've done everything so far myself without using an agent but now I'm unsure about where I can get my hands on a legally binding tenancy agreement...

    Can anyone advise?


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    #69
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Google and look for a standard lease, if not Easons.

    My suggestion is immediately engage with a Part IV, don't enter into a 12 month fixed term. It's disadvantageous to the tenants if they need to move and yourself if you need to get rid of them in the first 6 months for whatever reason.


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    #70
    M3CS
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭M3CS


    MarkAnthony wrote: »
    My suggestion is immediately engage with a Part IV, don't enter into a 12 month fixed term. It's disadvantageous to the tenants if they need to move and yourself if you need to get rid of them in the first 6 months for whatever reason.

    How would engaging in a Part IV tenancy work to my advantage? What's the difference between a Part IV lease and a 12 month fixed term lease?


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    #71
    Ms Doubtfire1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Ms Doubtfire1


    the fixed term will be enhanced by the part 4, you literally have no rights as a landlord.Under part 4, things are a little bit better. I have a fixed term 4 year lease...which is very handy (for me)


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    #72
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    M3CS wrote: »
    How would engaging in a Part IV tenancy work to my advantage? What's the difference between a Part IV lease and a 12 month fixed term lease?

    He means a periodic lease, i.e. one without a fixed term. This allows the tenant to be evicted without cause during the first 6 months before a Part 4 comes into force. It however also allows the tenant to leave at any time with the correct notice.


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    #73
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    M3CS wrote: »
    I'm back as I've finally found tenants for my house. They're moving in next week and in the meantime I have to get a lease for them to sign to make it official. I've done everything so far myself without using an agent but now I'm unsure about where I can get my hands on a legally binding tenancy agreement...

    Can anyone advise?

    I would get a lease that keeps you away from the RTB. Expensive but worth it.


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    #74
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    M3CS wrote: »
    How would engaging in a Part IV tenancy work to my advantage? What's the difference between a Part IV lease and a 12 month fixed term lease?

    After 6 months, regardless of whether you've a 12 month lease or not the tenant will gain Part IV rights, meaning they can stay for a further 42 months, baring very specific scenarios. If you've given a 12 month lease at the outset you lose the ability to evict the tenant during the first 6 months.

    You may want to do that because of damage or antisocial behaviour that doesn't rise to the standard of eviction otherwise, or if you find you've got a tenant that always pays late or can't change a light bulb. If you engage in a 12 month lease at the outset you're stuck with them until the 4 years are up.


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    #75
    jsd1004
    Registered Users Posts: 719 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    MarkAnthony wrote: »
    After 6 months, regardless of whether you've a 12 month lease or not the tenant will gain Part IV rights, meaning they can stay for a further 42 months, baring very specific scenarios. If you've given a 12 month lease at the outset you lose the ability to evict the tenant during the first 6 months.

    You may want to do that because of damage or antisocial behaviour that doesn't rise to the standard of eviction otherwise, or if you find you've got a tenant that always pays late or can't change a light bulb. If you engage in a 12 month lease at the outset you're stuck with them until the 4 years are up.

    You are mad becoming a landlord. Tenants have too many rights and you could easily end up being stung for 10s of thousands. Much easier to rent on Airbnb or rent to students on a fixed term licence similar to Airbnb.


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    #76
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    jsd1004 wrote: »
    You are mad becoming a landlord. Tenants have too many rights and you could easily end up being stung for 10s of thousands. Much easier to rent on Airbnb or rent to students on a fixed term licence similar to Airbnb.

    It's not as bad as people make out. AirBnB is far too much hassle for me. Not a chance I'd rent to students - they can't be put on a fixed term licence either. Leases are a matter of fact not form.


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    #77
    riclad
    Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    My friend lives in the house ,
    With 3,tenants ,
    he mostly takes on women as Licensee,s .
    Age between 20-40 ,he gets a large deposit.
    Women who are professional ,single, work in the tech industry.
    The only problem he had was with one person who drank wine,
    and smoked hash in the evening after work.
    he told her to leave after a few months.
    she would leave the cooker on etc and forget about it.
    MY advice is get a large deposit,
    get id, payslip etc info. joe bloggs works for company x ,
    wage is x, not an intern ,
    in full time employment.not a contract worker .
    Get maybe a couple on a good wage who can well afford the rent .take photos of all the rooms, cooker, fridge etc ,
    walls,
    to show everything was in good nick.
    Make sure esb,gas, cable tv,is transfered to the tenants name .
    you get a tax credit for an agent,accountant fees etc so may as well use them.
    You can get em to sign a lease ,6-12 months ,
    or charge x rent per month .
    lots of info here ,
    https://www.irishlandlord.com/
    http://www.let.ie/landlordinfo/
    all tenants must have a rent book and be registered with the prtb .


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    #78
    jsd1004
    Registered Users Posts: 719 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    MarkAnthony wrote: »
    It's not as bad as people make out. AirBnB is far too much hassle for me. Not a chance I'd rent to students - they can't be put on a fixed term licence either. Leases are a matter of fact not form.

    Yes they can..they never get a lease or are they tenants. They do not pay rent. They pay upfront for a term and have same conditions as a guest in a B+B or indeed Airbnb. They do not have exclusive use of the space.


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    #79
    yqtwqxqm
    Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭yqtwqxqm


    jsd1004 wrote: »
    You are mad becoming a landlord. Tenants have too many rights and you could easily end up being stung for 10s of thousands. Much easier to rent on Airbnb or rent to students on a fixed term licence similar to Airbnb.

    I use Airbnb.
    Its great.
    And I have full control of my property.
    Also the place is always left spotless and all of the guests I have ever had treat the place with a lot more respect than an ordinary tenant.
    Not to mention the money is better. And its paid up front to Airbnb and then on to me.


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    #80
    jsd1004
    Registered Users Posts: 719 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    yqtwqxqm wrote: »
    I use Airbnb.
    Its great.
    And I have full control of my property.
    Also the place is always left spotless and all of the guests I have ever had treat the place with a lot more respect than an ordinary tenant.
    Not to mention the money is better. And its paid up front to Airbnb and then on to me.

    I could not agree more. It is quite easy to manage as well if you use a key box for check in and have a cleaner organised to prep the house.


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    #81
    yqtwqxqm
    Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭yqtwqxqm


    jsd1004 wrote: »
    I could not agree more. It is quite easy to manage as well if you use a key box for check in and have a cleaner organised to prep the house.

    Whats a key box. (Edit : I googled it. Well you live and you learn. I think you have changed my life :) )
    Sounds like something that could make life easier.
    The only con I have is the amount of meet and greets.

    Good post here about the pros and cons of airbnb. Mostly pros.

    http://www.irishlandlord.com/forum/forum/landlord-topics/general-comments/29408-benefits-and-disadvantages-of-air-bnb-a-mini-guide


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    #82
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    jsd1004 wrote: »
    Yes they can..they never get a lease or are they tenants. They do not pay rent. They pay upfront for a term and have same conditions as a guest in a B+B or indeed Airbnb. They do not have exclusive use of the space.

    You can't do that in a one bed apartment. You're also on very dodgey ground if independent tenants decide they want to avail of part IV rights. People think they're very clever in terms of leaving one bedroom unrented or sleeping there once a month. They'll have a shock if anyone ever decides test the legality of their homegrown agreements.


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    #83
    yqtwqxqm
    Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭yqtwqxqm


    MarkAnthony wrote: »
    You can't do that in a one bed apartment. You're also on very dodgey ground if independent tenants decide they want to avail of part IV rights. People think they're very clever in terms of leaving one bedroom unrented or sleeping there once a month. They'll have a shock if anyone ever decides test the legality of their homegrown agreements.

    Ive posted before that I have relatives who do this and they have checked it out thoroughly and it is all above board and kosher.
    We can all say "oh, some day what if ..... " about anything, it still doesnt change the fact that it is allowed. Maybe some day it wont, but it is at present.


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    #84
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    The Act allows the rights under Part IV to be varied by agreement DURING the Part IV. It does not allow you to place a unilateral clause in the lease doing this at the outset. You can of course terminate a tenancy during the six months but not apply a limit at the outset. If you're not even going to give them a lease (which I assume you'd not be so foolish) then the tenant is home free after six months. Perhaps there is an amendment to the RTA 2004 that I'm not aware of - I welcome enlightenment of course.

    This is all moot anyway as if the tenant decides not to leave there is nothing you can do. Perhaps that would be different in an AirBnB situation but I suspect that's yet to be tested.

    OP if you're going to do some strange licensee agreement get it thoroughly checked out by a solicitor, at least you've recourse through malpractice insurance if they screw something up. Don't rely on randomers on the interwebz or the RTB. If you're doing something standard - Lease or AirBnB you can rely on online resources if you're careful.


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    #85
    yqtwqxqm
    Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭yqtwqxqm


    MarkAnthony wrote: »
    The Act allows the rights under Part IV to be varied by agreement DURING the Part IV. It does not allow you to place a unilateral clause in the lease doing this at the outset. You can of course terminate a tenancy during the six months but not apply a limit at the outset. If you're not even going to give them a lease (which I assume you'd not be so foolish) then the tenant is home free after six months. Perhaps there is an amendment to the RTA 2004 that I'm not aware of - I welcome enlightenment of course.

    This is all moot anyway as if the tenant decides not to leave there is nothing you can do. Perhaps that would be different in an AirBnB situation but I suspect that's yet to be tested.

    OP if you're going to do some strange licensee agreement get it thoroughly checked out by a solicitor, at least you've recourse through malpractice insurance if they screw something up. Don't rely on randomers on the interwebz or the RTB. If you're doing something standard - Lease or AirBnB you can rely on online resources if you're careful.

    Again with the yet to be tested.
    Its like saying "Dont cross that road, some day you might get knocked down. I told you so"
    Somehow I dont see Airbnb guests refusing to leave. Do you? Really?
    And you are correct to advise someone to check with a solicitor. Thats what all have been advised to do, even if only to satisfy themselves that they are ok to enter into whatever arrangement they are looking at.
    Theres also another very easy way to check once and for all that you are on the up and up. But I wont go into that here as if I do im sure it will be blocked off and some way brought in of charging for it. Ive PMd a couple of people in that situation already and one has tried it successfully too.


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    #86
    jsd1004
    Registered Users Posts: 719 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    MarkAnthony wrote: »
    The Act allows the rights under Part IV to be varied by agreement DURING the Part IV. It does not allow you to place a unilateral clause in the lease doing this at the outset. You can of course terminate a tenancy during the six months but not apply a limit at the outset. If you're not even going to give them a lease (which I assume you'd not be so foolish) then the tenant is home free after six months. Perhaps there is an amendment to the RTA 2004 that I'm not aware of - I welcome enlightenment of course.

    This is all moot anyway as if the tenant decides not to leave there is nothing you can do. Perhaps that would be different in an AirBnB situation but I suspect that's yet to be tested.

    OP if you're going to do some strange licensee agreement get it thoroughly checked out by a solicitor, at least you've recourse through malpractice insurance if they screw something up. Don't rely on randomers on the interwebz or the RTB. If you're doing something standard - Lease or AirBnB you can rely on online resources if you're careful.

    Any of my clients i inform them of their rights and make them sign that they are not agreeing to a tenancy. Most are happy to do so. If they want to get it checked out by a solicitor they are more than entitled to.


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    #87
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    jsd1004 wrote: »
    Any of my clients i inform them of their rights and make them sign that they are not agreeing to a tenancy. Most are happy to do so. If they want to get it checked out by a solicitor they are more than entitled to.

    Generally you can't contract out of legal obligations, this is one such occasion. It's a good cautionary tale for the OP. Some people think they've everything sewn up, but are actually leaving themselves wide open.

    Again OP, not so bad if you're doing something standard but be careful if you're going to attempt to circumvent the RTA. It's a bit of a hot topic at the moment and that may factor in if something goes awry.


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