Euro 2016 England V Russia on and off the pitch ITV/TV3

ben.schlomo

Debil wrote: »

He seems to understand the CR is in Eastern Europe. He then claims Eastern Europeans are attacking women and children. I think I'm allowed ask for clarification.

Eastern Bloc/behind the Iron curtain, it may be that CZ is in central Europe but to many its still classed as an eastern European nation, i wouldnt get too offended by it.

The Talking Bread

Debil wrote: »

He seems to understand the CR is in Eastern Europe. He then claims Eastern Europeans are attacking women and children. I think allowed ask for clarification.

no he doesn't he claims Russian and Eastern European neo nazi type hooligans will or may attack anyone.

You were just lurking and deciphering a post to outsmart him. His post makes reasonable sense, bar the geographical mishap, which can be explained also.

Edward Hopper

Debil wrote: »

He seems to understand the CR is in Eastern Europe. He then claims Eastern Europeans are attacking women and children. I think I'm allowed ask for clarification.

He can't clarify something he didn't say. Which is what you asked him to.

It would be like me saying "so you think Eastern European Neo Nazis are OK". You never said it, but I can jump a few imaginary steps to reach that conclusion, even though it's wrong.

PhlegmyMoses

NIMAN wrote: »

My point is that they aren't French, irrespective of passport held. They don't consider themselves French. Same as those French isis bombers. Maybe born in France but in their mind they aren't. They see France as an enemy. If you were French in your heart you wouldn't murder your own people.

Try to find a white face among all the French ultras. You will struggle.

Don't really know where to start here. I actually think that you're making two separate points, both with factual errors. The first is that these football hooligans are one and the same as the ISIS guys in how they view their nationality and cultural identity. You have no basis for this other than some vaguely racist idea that both groups you reference seem to have members with brown skin. We are talking about religious fanatics who went so far with their belief that they murdered dozens in cold blood. Not the same as a few hoolis throwing chairs and bottles.

The second point you make references the skin colour of the people doing the fighting in Marseille. I'm really not sure how this is relevant at all.

McDermotX

acquiescefc wrote: »

Youre grasping at straws. The english fans were just drinking and then the Marseille Ultras turned up and started kicking off.
Yes the english fans chucked back some chairs, but i ask what would you do if you were sat having a beer and people started to throw glass bottles and chairs at you? Laugh it off as banter?

Grasping at straws ??
All I'm saying is that the video doesn't seem to portray the unprovoked attack in the way it's social media'd as.
There's clearly words and stuff being exchanged before they're even in shot (from who, we don't know), as even though the video uploader points out the bottle as being the initial point of attack, there's already a chair going through the air before the bottle has left the scumbag's hand.

There's little to be gained in trying to paint one lot whiter than white.....that kind of attitude breeds irresponsibility.

Das Reich

JustTheOne wrote: »

Does anyone remember France 98 or were you all too young?

Same thing, local thugs attacking supporters of different nationalities.

France is a cesspit of Algerian, Tunisian, Moroccan, etc with the youth taking it out on anyone and anything.

I remember in 1998 that english supporters attacked argentinians fans, women and children and as usual they got eliminated. They tried to do the same to the tunisians but two english got killed. In euro 2004 in Portugal they were the only ones giving troubles to local authorities (pissing and dirting all around), and still remember the portuguese goalkeeper Ricardo sending them home. English only does too much noise in change of a very bad football.

Albert_Camus

acquiescefc wrote: »

but i ask what would you do if you were sat having a beer and people started to throw glass bottles and chairs at you? Laugh it off as banter?

I'd try and remove myself from the situation. Like many in the video did. I just don't see me chucking chairs and bottles about. Not everyone got involved, but some chose to.

JustTheOne

Can guarantee there will be trouble with Croatia and turkey today.

redandwhite

Das Reich wrote: »

It was funny to see those "hooligans" running away like rats after attacking the russians, I just not understand why only Russia can get retaliations? Let's also remember in 1986 in Belgium those English fans attacked the sector of the Juventus supporters that had only families (poor people from southern Italy that emigrated). And those good men won only ONE world cup with a very suspicious games (Pelé of Brazil was broken at the beginning of the competition) and at home. Since then they never won anything, are good only for talking.

England are good only for talking about the past.

Yet you go back to 1986 and 1966 to support your "argument".

Okiedoke.

ben.schlomo

JustTheOne wrote: »

Can guarantee there will be trouble with Croatia and turkey today.

Have you the lotto numbers too?

acquiescefc

McDermotX wrote: »

Grasping at straws ??
All I'm saying is that the video doesn't seem to portray the unprovoked attack in the way it's social media'd as.
There's clearly words and stuff being exchanged before they're even in shot (from who, we don't know), as even though the video uploader points out the bottle as being the initial point of attack, there's already a chair going through the air before the bottle has left the scumbag's hand.

There's little to be gained in trying to paint one lot whiter than white.....that kind of attitude breeds irresponsibility.

Yes because the chair was picked up from where the instigators came from, right of screen and thus they started throwing at same time.
Note the chair is black plastic, the ones the England fans were sat on where metal/chrome.

whatever_

The best opening performance by England in a tournament since Marseille '98. The late equaliser was a bit disappointing, but with 16 teams progressing, they just need to avoid losing against Wales to stay in contention. They generally do better when they struggle through the group stage.

Leroy42

Have to say, and I'm not trying the shift the blame, but the French authorities have been caught very short on all this. There was no police/very few stewards separating the fans last night. They seem to be very standoffish when trouble starts and, from my sitting room at least, seem to have taken their eye of the ball in terms of this type of problem.

1st day, fair enough, to be honest I think most sane people would have expected that with everything else going on in the world English football hooligans would the last thing to worry about. But the 2nd and 3rd days??? And then in the stadium.

Hooligans get braver when they see no real action from the police, and by the time the police turn up you can be sure the ringleaders are well out of it. Start the fight, get a few digs in, the others involved, and then slink off.

But it is clear that Russia has a big hooligan problem, and unlike the English seem to be doing very little to stop it. As a previous poster said, Russia 2018 should be great fun. Holligans, ultras, homophobic culture in Russia.

I hope we don't qualify so that we don't have any reason to head over.

namloc1980

Both sets of fans who got involved are scum plus the locals who got involved. Is there any point in arguing who is scummier or who is more to blame? They're all a disgrace.

Debil

The Talking Bread wrote: »

no he doesn't he claims Russian and Eastern European neo nazi type hooligans will or may attack anyone.

You were just lurking and deciphering a post to outsmart him. His post makes reasonable sense, bar the geographical mishap, which can be explained also.

Edward Hopper wrote: »

He can't clarify something he didn't say. Which is what you asked him to.

It would be like me saying "so you think Eastern European Neo Nazis are OK". You never said it, but I can jump a few imaginary steps to reach that conclusion, even though it's wrong.

I'm not trying to outsmart anyone.

I was asking for evidence that Czech/Other neo Nazis in Prague are willing to attack women and children.

He seems to base his claim on "That night" he was in "Eastern Europe" in the CR.

If he doesn't mean it, then fine.

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

So in summary:

Most England fans are genuine, they have a small minority looking for trouble.

Most French fans are genuine, they have a small minority looking for trouble.

Most Russian fans are genuine, they have a small minority looking for trouble.

Most football fans are genuine, they have a small minority looking for trouble. And these ones aren't really fans at all, just scum.

That's it.

JustTheOne

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Have you the lotto numbers too?

Couple of pics from a site that is about football hooligans.

Will UEFA do anything about it seeing as the French authorities aren't coping too well?

Doubtful

Leroy42

whatever_ wrote: »

The best opening performance by England in a tournament since Marseille '98. The late equaliser was a bit disappointing, but with 16 teams progressing, they just need to avoid losing against Wales to stay in contention. They generally do better when they struggle through the group stage.

What, as opposed to the times they simply sail through the group rounds?

Yes, I recall now the struggle in the group stage in Brazil set them up nicely for the run to the final!

They played an awful Russian team, shocking really how poor they were especially in the 1st half and still couldn't get the job done. England have a poor defence, so will rely on the front to win the games. Last night that failed in even against such a limited team as Russia they couldn't hold on.

The subs were terrible. With a tiring Russia, who being behind had to open up and so leave gaps, Roy brought on Milner! On the only thing that Milner can possibly provide, experience and solidity, he completley let the Russian lad breeze by him to put in the cross.

So the team as a whole play poorly, the main striker was completely anonymous, the star winger couldn't find a cross in a church and the captain was taken off. But yeah, great performance

gandalf

Leroy42 wrote: »

But it is clear that Russia has a big hooligan problem, and unlike the English seem to be doing very little to stop it. As a previous poster said, Russia 2018 should be great fun. Holligans, ultras, homophobic culture in Russia.

I hope we don't qualify so that we don't have any reason to head over.

There is no way Russia should have been given the World Cup in 2018, I really hope FIFA take note of the behaviour of the Russian fans and rethink the location of the WC otherwise I expect people to lose their lives over there.

JustTheOne

JustTheOne wrote: »

Couple of pics from a site that is about football hooligans.

McDermotX

acquiescefc wrote: »

Yes because the chair was picked up from where the instigators came from, right of screen and thus they started throwing at same time.
Note the chair is black plastic, the ones the England fans were sat on where metal/chrome.

Wow ��

That's up there with the usual collection of mothers coming out and saying how their Johnny is a good boy, not a trouble-maker.
Nobody is going to be buying that and you shouldn't be selling it.

Superhorse

gandalf wrote: »

There is no way Russia should have been given the World Cup in 2018, I really hope FIFA take note of the behaviour of the Russian fans and rethink the location of the WC otherwise I expect people to lose their lives over there.

Nonsense. Russia is a fantastic country. Have you ever been there or is this wealth of anti Russian bias all formed from western media?

PhlegmyMoses

McDermotX wrote: »

Wow ��

That's up there with the usual collection of mothers coming out and saying how their Johnny is a good boy, not a trouble-maker.
Nobody is going to be buying that and you shouldn't be selling it.

It's pretty much accepted by everybody on the ground there that the English are not the only ones causing problems there and are definitely being targeted. Not sure how this is so hard to believe

acquiescefc

McDermotX wrote: »

Wow ��

That's up there with the usual collection of mothers coming out and saying how their Johnny is a good boy, not a trouble-maker.
Nobody is going to be buying that and you shouldn't be selling it.

ignorance is bliss

gandalf

Superhorse wrote: »

Nonsense. Russia is a fantastic country. Have you ever been there or is this wealth of anti Russian bias all formed from western media?

Based on the behaviour of their fans, their treatment of minorities and neighbours I have absolutely no wish to visit that country at this time or in the near future.

McDermotX

acquiescefc wrote: »

ignorance is bliss

Apology accepted.

McDermotX

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

It's pretty much accepted by everybody on the ground there that the English are not the only ones causing problems there and are definitely being targeted. Not sure how this is so hard to believe

I agree......it's clearly not all onesided. Don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise, portraying it any other way is irresponsible and not helpful.
There's a scum element in all fanbases, particularly so in certain groupings this summer. Usual trouble from the same quarters......should surprise no one.

Fr Tod Umptious

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Don't really know where to start here. I actually think that you're making two separate points, both with factual errors. The first is that these football hooligans are one and the same as the ISIS guys in how they view their nationality and cultural identity. You have no basis for this other than some vaguely racist idea that both groups you reference seem to have members with brown skin. We are talking about religious fanatics who went so far with their belief that they murdered dozens in cold blood. Not the same as a few hoolis throwing chairs and bottles.

The second point you make references the skin colour of the people doing the fighting in Marseille. I'm really not sure how this is relevant at all.

People should stop trying to hide behind political correctness and call a spade a spade.

Places like Marseille have for decades had racial tensions, failed multiculturalisms, gettoiseation etc.

Its not a huge leap to suggest that French residents of north African background are out and about to cause trouble at a major event in that city.

Back in October 2004 there were a few bottles thrown at an Irish crowd in Pigalle in Paris after the France v Ireland WC Qualifier.

The bottle throwers and the main instagotors were all north African, none were white.

Some Irish retaliated, I just legged it and went somewhere else.

JustTheOne

JustTheOne wrote: »

Can guarantee there will be trouble with Croatia and turkey today.

Just seen this posted online. Irish and Croatia fans having the crack, the way it should be.

Glad we don't bring too many idiots looking for fights

https://youtu.be/gNEIkPHMizE

Richard Hillman

In regard to the make-up of the Marseilles hooligans, the first major incidents happened during the France-Romania match. The England fans were watching the game and the 'locals' attacked them during it.

If they were actually French, rather than French by convenience, they would have been gripped by the game.

acquiescefc

McDermotX wrote: »

Apology accepted.

I wasnt apologising. Your ignorance is yours to keep.

acquiescefc

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Just seen this posted online. Irish and Croatia fans having the crack, the way it should be.

Glad we don't bring too many idiots looking for fights

https://youtu.be/gNEIkPHMizE

Going by your username youre a Liverpool fan i guess? Do you go over to England to see any games, how do you survive with all those foaming at the mouth animals?

namloc1980

Richard Hillman wrote: »

In regard to the make-up of the Marseilles hooligans, the first major incidents happened during the France-Romania match. The England fans were watching the game and the 'locals' attacked them during it.

If they were actually French, rather than French by convenience, they would have been gripped by the game.

Other reports suggest England fans were taunting locals when Romania scored and calling them "surrender monkeys" as is their thing.

A lot of posters here going to great lengths to absolve English fans of all blame.

Superhorse

gandalf wrote: »

Based on the behaviour of their fans, their treatment of minorities and neighbours I have absolutely no wish to visit that country at this time or in the near future.

So you haven't been. Okay just as I thought. Thanks for clearing it up.

Disciplinary procedures against Russia kicking off now
Russian sports minister stating it's the correct decision
What type of punishment is likely to happen?

acquiescefc

acquiescefc wrote: »

Going by your username youre a Liverpool fan i guess? Do you go over to England to see any games, how do you survive with all those foaming at the mouth animals?

Yeah I do. Everyone knows hooliganism in and around games are very few and far between due to a variety of factors, cctv everywhere being a big one.


Weird response to Ireland and Croatia fans having the crack

PhlegmyMoses

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

People should stop trying to hide behind political correctness and call a spade a spade.

Places like Marseille have for decades had racial tensions, failed multiculturalisms, gettoiseation etc.

Its not a huge leap to suggest that French residents of north African background are out and about to cause trouble at a major event in that city.

Back in October 2004 there were a few bottles thrown at an Irish crowd in Pigalle in Paris after the France v Ireland WC Qualifier.

The bottle throwers and the main instagotors were all north African, none were white.

Some Irish retaliated, I just legged it and went somewhere else.

Why is their ethnicity relevant though? It's not their genetic makeup that is making them do this. They're just ****ehawks, same as the ultra white Russians and English at it last night. Nobody is saying that it might have been Ukrainians or ethnic Moldovans who have nominal Russian citizenship causing the problems. We're just saying Russians.

It's not a PC thing, it's just a pointless addendum that has an undercurrent of racism.

acquiescefc

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Yeah I do. Everyone knows hooliganism in and around games are very few and far between due to a variety of factors, cctv everywhere being a big one.


Weird response to Ireland and Croatia fans having the crack

Weird response in an England v Russia thread.

You and I know why you posted it. Hope the locals dont turn up like they did with the Nordys/Poles, of course the Irish would all walk away politely.

Debil

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Disciplinary procedures against Russia kicking off now
Russian sports minister stating it's the correct decision
What type of punishment is likely to happen?

This same sports minister was seen turning to Russian Ultras and energetically applauding after the Russian equalizer. A mass brawl in its infancy in the stadium. Not the brightest spark.

Richard Hillman

namloc1980 wrote: »

Other reports suggest England fans were taunting locals when Romania scored and calling them "surrender monkeys" as is their thing.

A lot of posters here going to great lengths to absolve English fans of all blame.

Taunting the locals. Locals being mostly young males, dressed similarly, all happen to be Marseille fans, of North African persuasion, gathered in one area, conveniently standing close to the England fans.

What are odds on that coincidence??? The Marseille Ultras must have been having a 'help the homeless food drive' and they guys were just happened to be walking home in that direction to see their adopted homeland playing the last 10 minutes of their game.

acquiescefc

acquiescefc wrote: »

Weird response in an England v Russia thread.
You and I know why you posted it. Hope the locals dont turn up like they did with the Nordys/Poles, of course the Irish would all walk away politely.

I was over in Poland after the Spain game when 2 pubs were invaded by Polish Ultras. All the Irish just moved on.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Royal Legend

SlickRic wrote: »

Hodgson deserves every bit of that.

Vardy not coming on to exploit that space was criminal. Milner for Sterling to take off what pace they had was cowardly.

Rooney off when he was probably the best attacking player, even from deeper, was odd.

Kane and Alli stinking the place out while you've the aformentioned Vardy and Sturridge on the bench was ridiculous.

It was cruel, but Hodgson rolled the dice by making the strange decisions he did.

Watch the start of the implosion, he has the option of three on form strikers on the bench (the two above and Rashford) and not one of them used, he tried to close out the game, instead of going for the jugular, next time I am guessing he will be pragmatic versus Wales, which could cost them.
Taking off their one creative player in Rooney? Hodgson is a bluffer, so far he has got away with it for England, because he totally played down the team and expectations, but after an undefeated run, he is now in a quandary. Going to be fun watching this unravel Could not happen to a nicer fella :cool:

Edward Hopper

Das Reich wrote: »

What does that mean?

Well a brief review of your posting history. You appear to equally dislike homosexuals (lovely edit on your post by the way), same sex marriage, the English, Americans, Muslim refugees, Jews, Chinese........ Did I miss anyone out from your rich and varied posting history?

Particularly enjoyed your idea of who or what is considered a "native" of a country.

All the best now.

McDermotX

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Disciplinary procedures against Russia kicking off now
Russian sports minister stating it's the correct decision
What type of punishment is likely to happen?

Usual 50,000 euro fine unfortunately, despite probably still having a probationary period hanging over their heads from the last 'incident'.
Would be better just to chuck all those involved in the trouble out.

Debil

Debil wrote: »

This same sports minister was seen turning to Russian Ultras and energetically applauding after the Russian equalizer. A mass brawl in its infancy in the stadium. Not the brightest spark.

Russian Sports Minister Vitaly Mutko told R-Sport. Mutko blamed improper organization and “weak” security measures at the match for the brief scuffles, which he said are being exaggerated.

“There was no clash… that’s being exaggerated, in fact everything is fine here"

jack presley

Das Reich wrote: »

Let's also remember in 1986 in Belgium those English fans attacked the sector of the Juventus supporters that had only families (poor people from southern Italy that emigrated).

What happened in Belgium in 1986?

Fr Tod Umptious

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Why is their ethnicity relevant though? It's not their genetic makeup that is making them do this. They're just ****ehawks, same as the ultra white Russians and English at it last night. Nobody is saying that it might have been Ukrainians or ethnic Moldovans who have nominal Russian citizenship causing the problems. We're just saying Russians.

It's not a PC thing, it's just a pointless addendum that has an undercurrent of racism.

A poster suggested that these people were not necessarily "French" due to their ethnicity, another poster suggested that it was a statement that had a racial undertone.

I am suggesting that the race or ethnic make up of the trouble makers cannot be simply dismissed, in a city such as Marseille race is a major issue.

Edward Hopper

jack presley wrote: »

What happened in Belgium in 1986?

He was still remembering Heysel a year later I think.