Euro 2016 England V Russia on and off the pitch ITV/TV3

Mr.Nice Guy

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I'd imagine with the world watching them the Russian security forces won't let anything happen in the next world cup and they won't be going easy of any trouble makers.

I was thinking that too. If Putin wants Russia's image to remain unblemished throughout, then I'm not sure even these hooligans, as sinister as they are, would dare to try anything. Russia won't give a toss about the rights of the criminal like an EU country would.

It will make for a pretty grim atmosphere though. Rule by fear.

blueser

Harley Fast Seismograph wrote: »

Yesh you can see from the nasty head kick video they are no joke, all have conscribed military training and know how to fight, steroided out of it.

They literally immobilse the victim in this case with multiple head kicks and move on, this is different level stuff.

Frightening to watch. I try to go over to four or five City games a season, and I've never seen anything like that around the stadium. One minor scuffle with Everton around 2011 (?). Maybe a dozen idiots in total and it was literally over in about 15 seconds; the police swarmed in from all directions. In the videos doing the rounds, there are very few police to be seen in some parts of the city and (by plenty of eyewitness accounts) none in the stadium.

Cantona's Collars

The 'proper' English hooligans couldn't travel to France due to good policing in the UK.Most of what is there are drunk "hard men in a gang" types.The Russians found ways to bypass security and arrived tooled up for a fight.

Imagine Russia drawing Poland or Ukraine in the next rounds.There would be carnage.

zerks

zerks wrote: »

The 'proper' English hooligans couldn't travel to France due to good policing in the UK.Most of what is there are drunk "hard men in a gang" types.The Russians found ways to bypass security and arrived tooled up for a fight.

Imagine Russia drawing Poland or Ukraine in the next rounds.There would be carnage.

If Russia drew Ukraine there would be multiple fatalities, lets hope to go they dont.

WarZ

What's scary is not just the level of viciousness from the Russians but the speed at which they immobilize the person and move onto the next target. It was almost like it was second nature to them and they seemed to carry out the acts with incredible calmness. Bottles were flying everywhere and the Russians never seemed to lose shape or sight of the targets.

The English are literally being slaughtered. The Russians have mentioned they want to target Sweden so hopefully some of the Russians don't come up to where Ireland are playing.

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

I thought exactly the same about the French before all this kicked off

You not remember 1998?

One of the worst I can remember

WarZ

WarZ wrote: »

What's scary is not just the level of viciousness from the Russians but the speed at which they immobilize the person and move onto the next target. It was almost like it was second nature to them and they seemed to carry act the acts with incredible calmness. Bottles were flying everywhere and the Russians never seemed to lose shape or sight of the targets.

The English are literally being slaughtered. The Russians have mentioned they want to target Sweden so hopefully some of the Russians don't come up to where Ireland are playing.

What have the mild mannered swedes done to incur the wrath of the Russians ha

citytillidie

Well do they not have national service in Russia so would all have military training

WarZ

Harley Fast Seismograph wrote: »

What have the mild mannered swedes done to incur the wrath of the Russians ha

I believe they hold their football firms in high regard.

The Russians said they were looking to test themselves against the Polish, Croats and Swedes.

Edward Hopper

WarZ wrote: »

I believe they hold their football firms in high regard.

The Russians said they were looking to test themselves against the Polish, Croats and Swedes.

Read that in the voice of Danny Dyer.

wonga77

Genuine question, is the stuff so far any worse than other tournaments? Or does it just seem worse now because every Tom Dick and Harry has a good quality mobile phone and stuff is all over facebook, twitter etc within seconds?

citytillidie

citytillidie wrote: »

Well do they not have national service in Russia so would all have military training

Russia have conscription,Poland did up until 2008 and Im pretty sure Ukraine do aswell. So yeah your talking about serious operators.

Superhorse

Harley Fast Seismograph wrote: »

Russia have conscription,Poland did up until 2008 and Im pretty sure Ukraine do aswell. So yeah your talking about serious operators.

They are flipping cowards. Make an example of Russia and England and throw them both out.

blueser

wonga77 wrote: »

Genuine question, is the stuff so far any worse than other tournaments? Or does it just seem worse now because every Tom Dick and Harry has a good quality mobile phone and stuff is all over facebook, twitter etc within seconds?

It's the organisation, the apparent military style planning that seems to have gone into it, certainly on the part of the Russians. And the sheer ruthlessness of them. They seem to have clattered anyone and everyone they came across. Plenty of accounts doing the rounds of non hooligan types ("shirts" and "scarves", I think they're known as) getting clobbered by them.

gandalf

Superhorse wrote: »

They are flipping cowards. Make an example of Russia and England and throw them both out.

Logically if Russia get thrown out of the Euros they should be stripped of the World Cup as well.

batistuta9

wonga77 wrote: »

Genuine question, is the stuff so far any worse than other tournaments? Or does it just seem worse now because every Tom Dick and Harry has a good quality mobile phone and stuff is all over facebook, twitter etc within seconds?

That's good question. now you're setting a lot of it, 24/7 news, etc.

If the gangs want to fight each other, they're no going to rely on the luck of the draw to meet each other either.

Underneath it all there's an interesting sociological aspect, far greater that some lads just wanting to fight. Though that's rarely mentioned and even in this thread talk about ethnicity was banned. Those ghettos are often the root of the problem

Clear Hearts

wonga77 wrote: »

Genuine question, is the stuff so far any worse than other tournaments? Or does it just seem worse now because every Tom Dick and Harry has a good quality mobile phone and stuff is all over facebook, twitter etc within seconds?

Tournaments based in Europe usually get nonsense more so than in other areas

thebaz

WarZ wrote: »

I believe they hold their football firms in high regard.

The Russians said they were looking to test themselves against the Polish, Croats and Swedes.

someone told me these firms now do organised training - why not play rugby , like us and England , and harness any macho aggression

citytillidie

some vidoes on here

https://www.facebook.com/Fighting.Hooligans/

citytillidie

citytillidie wrote: »

some vidoes on here

https://www.facebook.com/Fighting.Hooligans/

Disgusting stuff

10 guys v 1 lad getting kicked in the head

Attempted murder fs

monkey9

They're all just so weird.

citytillidie

why don't they just stick to that TFC that they created

Strong Life in Dublin

zerks wrote: »

Russians seemed to be all dressed in the same t-shirts here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikKsOHCyUtE

Have a look around Youtube for videos of Russian gangs fighting and it is a thing with them so each faction can identify each other.

Jesus that is brutal, that fat lad got one hell of a beating

Richard Hillman

zerks wrote: »

The 'proper' English hooligans couldn't travel to France due to good policing in the UK.Most of what is there are drunk "hard men in a gang" types.The Russians found ways to bypass security and arrived tooled up for a fight.

Imagine Russia drawing Poland or Ukraine in the next rounds.There would be carnage.

It's strange to say but it would probably be safer if the seasoned English hooligans were allowed to travel. At least the normal fans would have a buffer and the Russians could sort an organised fight.

At the moment it is like Conor McGregor turning up at the local trying to fight a bunch of drunk aul lads.

thebaz

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It's strange to say but it would probably be safer if the seasoned English hooligans were allowed to travel. At least the normal fans would have a buffer and the Russians could sort an organised fight.

At the moment it is like Conor McGregor turning up at the local trying to fight a bunch of drunk aul lads.

I really don't think it would have made much difference - the Russians and some other Eastern europeans are at a different level , by the early to mid 90s everyone was afraid of England - all that has changed - its like a sport for some of these Ultras - a very violent sport

Irish_rat

Like another poster said the real English hooligans are either locked up or confined to the UK. They wouldn't be so easy to knock even against these Russians. Also they'd have knives etc anything to gain the upper hand.

Its just all a game to the ultras, it happens with local matches probably every week. They spend their lives fighting the f*ck out of each other.

From what I've read through social sites they want to cause chaos when Ukraine and Poland meet. Its in Marseille aswell I think.

froog

madness. seems like the european hooligan championship.

murpho999

What the hell is going to happen in 2 years time with the World Cup in Russia?

Could be a disaster.

Clear Hearts

murpho999 wrote: »

What the hell is going to happen in 2 years time with the World Cup in Russia?

Could be a disaster.

Funny, I think once the worlds eyes are on Russia you will see how strict the police force are

namloc1980

froog wrote: »

madness. seems like the european hooligan championship.

Saw an interview with a German police head with experience in football hooliganism. He basically said these championships will be chaos. France is easy to get to, has open borders and the signs have been there for years that the lunatics were targeting this. He said that Russia in 2018 wouldn't be as bad as people will avoid it. And then the pan European championship in 2020 will put off a lot of travel. Then Qatar in 2022 won't attract hooligans. So France 2016 is just a prefect storm.

JustTheOne

namloc1980 wrote: »

Saw an interview with a German police head with experience in football hooliganism. He basically said these championships will be chaos. France is easy to get to, has open borders and the signs have been there for years that the lunatics were targeting this. He said that Russia in 2018 wouldn't be as bad as people will avoid it. And then the pan European championship in 2020 will put off a lot of travel. Then Qatar in 2022 won't attract hooligans. So France 2016 is just a prefect storm.

Yeah even the last euros in Ukraine had little trouble when England played, I think only a couple of 100 only travelled to Ukraine because it was in an awkward place.

CSF

I don't think many will feel safe in Russia. It shouldn't be there.

Strong Life in Dublin

Strong Life in Dublin wrote: »

Jesus that is brutal, that fat lad got one hell of a beating

It's the serialised full force kicks to head while he's defenseless on the ground which is most disturbing. Sick thugs

Optimalprimerib

I know it was branded as smugness, but I am proud to see how the Irish are behaving over there compared to what is going on between the other sets of fans. So what if they follow English teams 90% of the time. So what if they have slogans on their flags. It is all in good fun and a joyous spirit, which is what these tournaments and sporting events should be about.

Granted, maybe we are just getting to see the good side, that there probably are scuffles happening elsewhere with Irish fans, but from what I am seeing, they are role models to the rest of Europe.

Superhorse

Optimalprimerib wrote: »

I know it was branded as smugness, but I am proud to see how the Irish are behaving over there compared to what is going on between the other sets of fans. So what if they follow English teams 90% of the time. So what if they have slogans on their flags. It is all in good fun and a joyous spirit, which is what these tournaments and sporting events should be about.

Granted, maybe we are just getting to see the good side, that there probably are scuffles happening elsewhere with Irish fans, but from what I am seeing, they are role models to the rest of Europe.

It's not smugness, we have a lot to be proud of compared to the English and Russians.

Debil

Check out "sportingintelligence" on twitter for the latest on the honorable Russian sports minister.

Leroy42

Superhorse wrote: »

It's not smugness, we have a lot to be proud of compared to the English and Russians.

Nothing to be proud of. The English and Russians have a lot to be embarrassed about. Acting within the rules of society is expected, not something to be proud of.

fyfe79

I think the English fans are getting a rough deal in the media. I wouldn't consider them hooligans, just pissed up "geezers" being provoked into action by sober, seasoned, organised and dangerous genuine hooligans - guys with army training and experience of running battles week in week out. The NI fans were provoked in the same way, having been drinking with the regular Polish supporters with no issues. The French authorities should be doing more to round up the ultra's to prevent this from happening.

Like someone else said, the UK have done a good job to contain the genuine English hooligans and prevent them from travelling but in a way, that has put the regular (and even the mouthy, retaliatory but non-instigating) English supporter in more jeopardy, as the Russian ultras have lost that outlet. In the past, hooligans from different countries would meet up well away from the ground to do their battling, and it wouldn't hit the media, now they need to go to the city centres to find some victims.

Nerdlingr

M!Ck^ wrote: »

It's the serialised full force kicks to head while he's defenseless on the ground which is most disturbing. Sick thugs

Shocking to watch. One kick to each side of the head at the same time, fckin hell! The lad right at the end as well, one kick and he's out. As someone else said above, attempted murder.

At the same time I dunno why fellas go looking for fights, the fat lad went toe to toe and got done.

BoJack Horseman

Apologies if posted already.

Journo god & podcast doyen Ken Burley was on the scene the last few days and filed this from Marseille:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/ken-early-russians-go-to-war-with-an-english-myth-1.2682005

Interesting read.
He's right... Ing-gur-landers bring much of this on themselves... but they were probably more sinned against than sinners.

BoJack Horseman

murpho999 wrote: »

What the hell is going to happen in 2 years time with the World Cup in Russia?

Could be a disaster.

I don't think there will be an issue in Russia.

- It is probable that fewer fans will travel there compared to France.
- The vast distances between some of the host cities means that fans will be almost always to-ing & fro-ing, unable to 'set up shop' in one location.
- Russia's internal security apparatus is on another level.
Everything from a newly formed internal army reporting only to the President.... to whip-bearing militia gangs tasked with 'keeping order'.

It will be pretty passive as everyone will know that trouble will not be treated kindly.

Cantona's Collars

This was on the Journal this morning,an interview with one of the Russian ringleaders.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3638517/The-English-girls-Russian-hooligans-taunt-England-fans.html

Up to 15,000 Russians were said to be in France for Euro 2016 and Vladimir said team loyalties were forgotten for such events.

'It doesn't matter which city fans come from or which team they support. It's important that we're all from Russia. We are going to fight the English.'

Russian hardcore fans give their gangs English names such as 'mob' or 'crew' but consider themselves bitter rivals of English fans.

'The English always say they are the main football hooligans. We went to show that the English are girls,' Vladimir said.

Many hooligans have little interest in the games and will not care if UEFA disqualifies their team, he added.

'I think it's a decision that won't influence in any way what hooligans do next,' he said.

'Nothing will stop these people.'

He contrasted Russian hooligans with England fans, who he described as 'big older men who drink a lot of beer'.

'Fans or hooligans from Russia are mainly younger, aged 20-30 and at home most of them are into sports. They do sports like boxing or all kinds of martial arts,' he said.

'The aim is to come and prove that English fans aren't hooligans, they don't know how to fight. A lot of Russian guys come specially with this aim.'

Russian hooligans will try to provoke fights with a group of England fans at a bar by trying to grab their team banner, he said.

He stressed that while 'the English use chairs and bottles (to fight), the Russian style is only fists'.

Using weapons 'causes a lot of unnecessary injuries,' he said. 'For us it's like sport.'

'We don't have a desire to kill or injure. There is a desire to show our strength.'

whatever_

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Apologies if posted already.

Journo god & podcast doyen Ken Burley was on the scene the last few days and filed this from Marseille:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/ken-early-russians-go-to-war-with-an-english-myth-1.2682005

Interesting read.
He's right... Ing-gur-landers bring much of this on themselves... but they were probably more sinned against than sinners.

Yes, good article, but if you move away from the numbskulls then you are then an easy target for locals. As much of the video footage shows, people walking down the wrong street at the the wrong time were being assaulted, including one old French guy carrying his shopping. That was my experience of Marseille in '98. England and Russia should never have been playing there ...

Korat

The World Cup should be taken off Russia if there's anymore trouble from their fans. They operate a police state, they know who their trouble makers and if they let them travel then they should pay a heavy price for it.

Harry Palmr

Hey ho.

“I don’t see anything wrong with the fans fighting,” Igor Lebedev wrote on Twitter. “Quite the opposite, well done lads, keep it up!”

Lebedev, who sits on the executive committee of the Russian football union, is an MP from the nationalist Liberal Democratic party and the deputy chairman of the Russian parliament.

“I don’t understand those politicians and officials who are criticising our fans. We should defend them, and then we can sort it out when they come home,” Lebedev wrote in a series of tweets.

“What happened in Marseille and in other French towns is not the fault of fans, but about the inability of police to organise this kind of event properly.

“In nine out of 10 cases, football fans go to games to fight, and that’s normal. The lads defended the honour of their country and did not let English fans desecrate our motherland. We should forgive and understand our fans,” Lebedev told the news agency.

wonga77

Is that true or a Waterford whispers styled pisstake?

Harry Palmr

Russia IS a Waterford Whispers News pisstake these days. It's from the Guardian.

Peist2007

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Hey ho.

My God. That is amazing if real

Cypher_sounds

A few of the english $cumbags sentenced in France today.

https://twitter.com/emmamurphyitv/status/742353751097348096

https://twitter.com/jonathanwalditn/status/742356674804125696

Jelle1880

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

A few of the english $cumbags sentenced in France today.

https://twitter.com/emmamurphyitv/status/742353751097348096

https://twitter.com/jonathanwalditn/status/742356674804125696

The French court is seeking sentences for them. There is no way they've been caught, put in front of a judge and sentenced in a matter of days.

No Russians caught though.