Work problems- Forced out

MFlack2012

Hi guys,
Looking for some advice on a work issue. I’ve worked at my place of business (Childcare) for just over a year now. I am on a Causal employment basis with Social Welfare. After about a month of working in the business, the boss started to get very snappy with me. The first instance was when she had text me to come in early to work (but accidentally text another employee of the same name, although she’d been texting me numerous times beforehand) and I obviously didn’t reply until she text the right number. I went in early and she had a laugh and joke saying ‘I was just saying to (another employee) I don’t like her!’. A lot of other issues arose over the year but I loved the job and all the parents/Children adore me and me them. I am probably one of very few that the children all run to, to welcome and hug each day.

Last year come annual leave time, the boss text me around 10pm Sunday night (in August) to say that I wasn’t needed the following week and that I need to take my annual leave before September anyway. When I replied that this didn’t suit as I had nothing planned and asked for 2 weeks following that, I was told that another employee had that week off. I then replied that I could do the week in between and was told ‘No, you’re not needed’.

Come this year, in Feb, I was very ill with Pleurisy and was hospitalised. I had two weeks off and returned back with a sick note and medication proof. It was almost as if they thought I was lying. I have heard from other staff members that this boss accused another of lying that her baby was ill and hospitalised and another when her child was seriously ill, so much so that she left. Over the past 16 months of working there, five staff members have left due to bullying/stress.

I booked my holiday for July this year (two weeks ago) and informed my boss by letter on the same day with a note saying that those were the only dates available by our airline. Six weeks before it is due to start. My contract states that I must give 10 days notice of any holiday leave of 5 days or longer. I got a letter back to say that two members were on holiday that week and I couldn’t have it off. I informed the boss that this was non negotiable dates and that as per my contract I only had to give ten days notice. I got a letter back stating that my contract also states that my employer has the final say and those dates have already been booked by two other staff members and that holidays go by seniority and time served with the company. Now I can understand this, but this is six weeks in advance of a holiday and I previously covered shifts where three or more staff members were out in the same week. I know this is just being difficult due to all the other problems I’ve faced with the boss. I have been so stressed out and ill over the treatment I receive there, but haven’t been able to find employment elsewhere and can’t leave due to the Social Welfare (I’ve heard they stop money for nine weeks if you just up and leave a job).

I am looking for advice on what to do? I will have to leave in five weeks before the holiday anyway as the boss is refusing to give the time off, but how will this affect me going back on jobseekers?

Stheno

Start looking for a new job

Never book flights etc before you have the time off confirmed with your work, they are entitled to refuse dates that don't suit them

MFlack2012

Stheno wrote: »

Start looking for a new job

Never book flights etc before you have the time off confirmed with your work, they are entitled to refuse dates that don't suit them

I have a degree in Nursing among other college courses but have been struggling to find work as I don't have much work experience (Due to being in college)

I booked my holiday 'early' as I didn't want issues like last year (and because I was told last year that they had to be taken by September). My real issue with this is 6 weeks is plenty of time to give as notice and everyone else has already taken 'some' of their holidays. There is nothing anywhere to say what dates we can/can't take. Surely we should be informed if holidays are booked up to six weeks in advance.

Anyone know what the situation would be with Social if I leave in five weeks? I will be going to my Doctor tomorrow to discuss the issues as I've had stressed related illness previous and am finding the same issues creeping back up again.

davo10

Op you are completely in the wrong here.

Holiday leave dates are at the discretion of your employer, not your airline. The six weeks in your contract is just the minimum notice your are required to give, it does not entitle you to those dates though.

Google "annual leave", read the article on the citizens advice website.

MFlack2012

davo10 wrote: »

Op you are completely in the wrong here.

Holiday leave dates are at the discretion of your employer, not your airline. The six weeks in your contract is just the minimum notice your are required to give, it does not entitle you to those dates though.

Google "annual leave", read the article on the citizens advice website.

It is 10 days notice in my contract. I gave six weeks notice.

Stheno

MFlack2012 wrote: »

It is 10 days notice in my contract. I gave six weeks notice.

That ten days notice is your request for holidays not a demand you will get them

Your employer has final say in when you get your holidays by law

RossieMan

Op your employer is spot on. If there is already people off, tough luck.you should have checked it out, it's fierce bad form on your part to just expect to get your holidays when you want them.
You need to ask and see what available first.

MFlack2012

Stheno wrote: »

That ten days notice is your request for holidays not a demand you will get them

Your employer has final say in when you get your holidays by law

I totally understand this, as already stated. But if we can't take our annual leave until the boss says, available dates are not given, holidays are booked up to start of August and they have to be taken by the end of August, that doesn't give much time to take them. All the other 15 staff have already taken some of their holidays and by talking to them all, I have gathered that no-one have booked the dates that I requested. The boss was always going to refuse anyways due to other problems the boss has caused for me.

Pro Hoc Vice

MFlack2012 wrote: »

It is 10 days notice in my contract. I gave six weeks notice.

Notice of your request, important word is request. It is never advisable to book anything until you have confirmed time off. I know of people who request holidays months in advance and different industries have different busy times.

Pro Hoc Vice

MFlack2012 wrote: »

I totally understand this, as already stated. But if we can't take our annual leave until the boss says, available dates are not given, holidays are booked up to start of August and they have to be taken by the end of August, that doesn't give much time to take them. All the other 15 staff have already taken some of their holidays and by talking to them all, I have gathered that no-one have booked the dates that I requested. The boss was always going to refuse anyways due to other problems the boss has caused for me.

Then say to boss when is good and take that time.

MFlack2012

RossieMan wrote: »

Op your employer is spot on. If there is already people off, tough luck.you should have checked it out, it's fierce bad form on your part to just expect to get your holidays when you want them.
You need to ask and see what available first.

I don't have the option of asking what dates are available as the boss hasn't spoken a word to me since Feb when I asked for money owed to me that has been accruing since last year. I have been going through my 'supervisor' for everything required and she wasn't able to give me dates. As I've been ill, I didn't have much options available, plus my daughter has her JC so I didn't have an option to go earlier, although this wouldn't have been an option as everyone took off in June.

uck51js9zml2yt

Whatever the issues with your boss, she has the right to decide if the dates you've asked for suit her and the business.

MFlack2012

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Notice of your request, important word is request. It is never advisable to book anything until you have confirmed time off. I know of people who request holidays months in advance and different industries have different busy times.

Yes I understand this, but as I am part-time, I don't have money to book a holiday months or a year in advance. This was a first family trip in 12 years. We didn't know we would be going on holiday until a family member helped us to book it, two weeks ago. As everyone goes in June-August, we were down to two dates that we could choose from- one June (which I couldn't take as I had to give ten days notice) and one in July

uck51js9zml2yt

MFlack2012 wrote: »

Yes I understand this, but as I am part-time, I don't have money to book a holiday months or a year in advance. This was a first family trip in 12 years. We didn't know we would be going on holiday until a family member helped us to book it, two weeks ago. As everyone goes in June-August, we were down to two dates that we could choose from- one June (which I couldn't take as I had to give ten days notice) and one in July

That's not your employer's problem.

Stheno

MFlack2012 wrote: »

Yes I understand this, but as I am part-time, I don't have money to book a holiday months or a year in advance. This was a first family trip in 12 years. We didn't know we would be going on holiday until a family member helped us to book it, two weeks ago. As everyone goes in June-August, we were down to two dates that we could choose from- one June (which I couldn't take as I had to give ten days notice) and one in July

That's not your employers problem to be honest

racersedge

MFlack2012 wrote: »

I booked my holiday 'early' as I didn't want issues like last year (and because I was told last year that they had to be taken by September). My real issue with this is 6 weeks is plenty of time to give as notice and everyone else has already taken 'some' of their holidays. There is nothing anywhere to say what dates we can/can't take. Surely we should be informed if holidays are booked up to six weeks in advance.

My sympathies for the situation. Childcare settings can easily become a places where cliques develop and finding yourself on the outside looking in can definitely leave you feeling a lost. However I think you are on to a losing cause with regards to the holidays.

Your asking for time off in the middle of the summer season, right? Logically that is when most people will want to be booking their holidays. I'm sure most of them beforehand got their dates in well early, based on my own experience. Six weeks might be an okay time-frame for a day or two, but for booking an extended time off during the summer month, you need to be in like no man's business.

I've been working in the childcare sector for a good while now and come the turn of the year for holidays, you have to be pretty swift to get in and book time off. Particularly the summer months as the weather is generally favourable and things are a little bit quieter. I recall one year that all but a couple of weeks were snapped up within a few weeks when the year turned. It's just how things go, unfortunately. You learn from it and you get in quicker next year.

Booking something before confirming the availability of the dates unfortunately is something on your head. While you are entitled to your leave, it remains at the discretion of the employer and in this case, it looks as if your fellow staff mates got in before you. Always best to confirm (and in my own case, ensuring it is written down in the book) that those dates are secured before you book anything.

MFlack2012

Jensen Billions Superman wrote: »

Whatever the issues with your boss, she has the right to decide if the dates you've asked for suit her and the business.

I've been the one to cover holidays when four staff members were on holiday last year in the same week. This wasn't an issue then. And the business has a list of 10-20 people that can drop in (and do daily) to cover absences.

uck51js9zml2yt

Stheno wrote: »

That's not your employers problem to be honest

I just said that

davo10

Op, employment law is pretty clear on this, leave dates are at the discretion of your employer though family commitments should be taken into consideration, not airline availability.

You will be absent without leave if you take them without permission and the timing of your sick leave coninciding with your refused booked holiday dates will not look great.

I'm sorry op, stheno is right, time to look for a new job, booking a holiday without dates being agreed is a big no no.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

You might be able to find another job in a similar working environment that you could coincide to start after you're back from your holiday. Aspirational, but positive. That sounds like a rubbish workplace and you're better off out.

Pro Hoc Vice

MFlack2012 wrote: »

Yes I understand this, but as I am part-time, I don't have money to book a holiday months or a year in advance. This was a first family trip in 12 years. We didn't know we would be going on holiday until a family member helped us to book it, two weeks ago. As everyone goes in June-August, we were down to two dates that we could choose from- one June (which I couldn't take as I had to give ten days notice) and one in July

But why did you not put in your request and then book when you got days.

MFlack2012

racersedge wrote: »

My sympathies for the situation. Childcare settings can easily become a places where cliques develop and finding yourself on the outside looking in can definitely leave you feeling a lost. However I think you are on to a losing cause with regards to the holidays.

Your asking for time off in the middle of the summer season, right? Logically that is when most people will want to be booking their holidays. I'm sure most of them beforehand got their dates in well early, based on my own experience. Six weeks might be an okay time-frame for a day or two, but for booking an extended time off during the summer month, you need to be in like no man's business.

I've been working in the childcare sector for a good while now and come the turn of the year for holidays, you have to be pretty swift to get in and book time off. Particularly the summer months as the weather is generally favourable and things are a little bit quieter. I recall one year that all but a couple of weeks were snapped up within a few weeks when the year turned. It's just how things go, unfortunately. You learn from it and you get in quicker next year.

Booking something before confirming the availability of the dates unfortunately is something on your head. While you are entitled to your leave, it remains at the discretion of the employer and in this case, it looks as if your fellow staff mates got in before you. Always best to confirm (and in my own case, ensuring it is written down in the book) that those dates are secured before you book anything.

Hi thank you for your words. Unfortunately, in this business we are all on the outside looking in. It is not a nice place to work. Or wasn't once I asked for monies owed to me. I believed I was the only one the problems were happening too, but actually it turns out, that isn't the case. This employer is very savvy when it comes to issues that she may face. The law hasn't been on her side in some of the cases.

I am asking for time off in the summer season, as I didn't get it last year, and will unlikely get it again. It seems as if everyone else -three women who have worked there for 15 years and daughter-in-law plus her friends, get the options to book their holiday when they want and feck the rest.

Actually, this isn't the case here. It has always been, you can give 24 hours notice (contract agreed) if you want 2-3 days off. Anything over 5 days is 10 days notice. So most of the girls will take off at various times during the year. I don't get that option, as I have to cover for these girls when they're off. So actually I don't get the option at all of when I go on holiday. I get the dates that's left over, when everyone else has already gone. Which works out as 1-2 weeks in August. That treatment is not something I'm willing to put up with. It is as if I'm being looked down on, not part of the team and the lesser of all that work there. And I am actually the only one with a Degree on the premises, which is fiercely mentioned come inspection time.

I have learned from it, and from the past year, but getting in quicker next year is not an option- we don't take holidays every year. We get one holiday every 10-15 or so years after saving up pennies each year.

This is exactly my issue, I have spoken to my colleagues and not one have booked for those dates. So I don't know who the 'two' are, nor will the boss inform me of who they are.

nikkibikki

If you were full time OP, or regular part time hours, I would be in agreement with other posters who say you should request annual leave and book nothing til it's confirmed. But you state you work casually for them so am guessing from that you might work a day or 2 one week and maybe none at all the week after. I am kind of looking at this like you are just informing them of when you are not available. It really would depend tho on what's on your contract.

It doesn't sound like a happy working environment. If you voluntarily resign from your job, you may not get jobseekers for 9weeks.

If you've any questions on your employment rights, you can give NERA a call.

MFlack2012

Albert Low Rash wrote: »

You might be able to find another job in a similar working environment that you could coincide to start after you're back from your holiday. Aspirational, but positive. That sounds like a rubbish workplace and you're better off out.

Yes, I have been trying since all the issues arose (mid- june) last year, to find something. I really require better pay (as does everyone) but this sector doesn't really suit my education. I would like and am trying to find something more 'challenging'.

Unfortunately it has worked out to be like that. I was warned about working in this place before I took the job, but at the time, thought it was a lovely place and didn't heed the warnings.

MFlack2012

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

But why did you not put in your request and then book when you got days.

I was only given an option of two dates. She wouldn't have accepted June. So I was stuck with July.

Stheno

MFlack2012 wrote: »

I was only given an option of two dates. She wouldn't have accepted June. So I was stuck with July.

Was that your family or your work?

MFlack2012

nikkibikki wrote: »

If you were full time OP, or regular part time hours, I would be in agreement with other posters who say you should request annual leave and book nothing til it's confirmed. But you state you work casually for them so am guessing from that you might work a day or 2 one week and maybe none at all the week after. I am kind of looking at this like you are just informing them of when you are not available. It really would depend tho on what's on your contract.

It doesn't sound like a happy working environment. If you voluntarily resign from your job, you may not get jobseekers for 9weeks.

If you've any questions on your employment rights, you can give NERA a call.

I am working 20 hours per week, every week. It is a very unhappy working environment. Although I adore the girls and Children, I feel dread going in each day and feel like I just can't do it anymore. I am feeling very depressed with each issue that arises. I have heard that you don't get paid for 9 weeks if you voluntarily resign, and this is what I'm worried about. I am actually under too much stress there anyway and will be seeking medical advice tomorrow, so hopefully my Doctor might be able to suggest something.

Pro Hoc Vice

MFlack2012 wrote: »

I was only given an option of two dates. She wouldn't have accepted June. So I was stuck with July.

Lots of people are told when they can take their holidays. In fact in say the building industry it was always the first 2 weeks in August and tough after that. If as some of your post seem to imply other staff are being treated differently then your option is the make a complaint under the grievance procedure.

Your other option is to take unpaid leave for holidays and also take paid holidays in July.

MFlack2012

Stheno wrote: »

Was that your family or your work?

That was the Holiday availabilities that were left for the places we opted for. Finances suitable places.

Stheno

MFlack2012 wrote: »

That was the Holiday availabilities that were left for the places we opted for. Finances suitable places.

Again that's a restriction you and not your employer has imposed.

You need to plan holidays far more in advance tbh

Digital Society

Just look for other work. Unfortunately no one is ever gonna think you where in the right to book flights THEN book holidays.

In the long run just move on.