Aircoach Travel Time

Saint Sonner

I have to use the aircoach for the first time this week. How long would it take from Stillorgan to airport at around 4:00-4:30am

I checked website and it said 55mins but I was hoping it would maybe be a bit quicker at that time of the morning with quiet roads?

schemingbohemia

It could get there quicker but they tend to stick to the timetable funnily enough as people are relying on them. So they will wait at stops until the time they're supposed to be there.

coylemj

schemingbohemia wrote: »

It could get there quicker but they tend to stick to the timetable funnily enough as people are relying on them. So they will wait at stops until the time they're supposed to be there.

+1 that definitely applies in the case of the (hourly) Greystones service where they publish exact times for all of the bus stops but the city centre and Leopardstown services are simply described as being every 15 or 30 minutes with no stated times for any of the intermediate stops so I'd say the drivers are allowed to go for it and you'll get there quicker if the traffic is light.

I can't see any reason for the driver to wait for an unpublished departure time when the passengers aren't aware of any such schedule and it's not in the route leaflet.

Saint Sonner

Yes thats what I was wondering it doesn't give exact time for every stop on the timetable I saw for the leopardstown service. Hopefully get me there 10-15mins quicker!

markpb

schemingbohemia wrote:

It could get there quicker but they tend to stick to the timetable funnily enough as people are relying on them. So they will wait at stops until the time they're supposed to be there.

The timetable could reflect the light traffic and allow the buses to make reasonable time.

coylemj wrote:

I can't see any reason for the driver to wait for an unpublished departure time when the passengers aren't aware of any such schedule and it's not in the route leaflet.

Except that it could lead to unpredictable gaps between buses.

schemingbohemia

Sorry my post was based on my experience of the Dalkey/Killiney route where they do have stop specific times. Thought that was the case for all routes but obviously I was wrong.

devnull

Saint Sonner wrote: »

Yes thats what I was wondering it doesn't give exact time for every stop on the timetable I saw for the leopardstown service. Hopefully get me there 10-15mins quicker!

If you search for the 700 timetable on journeyplanner.transportforireland.ie on the Timetable Book Page option you can see the estimated times.

coylemj

markpb wrote: »

The timetable could reflect the light traffic and allow the buses to make reasonable time.

It could but it doesn't. The timetable for every route shows the same estimated time to get to the airport regardless of time of day.

markpb wrote: »

Except that it could lead to unpredictable gaps between buses.

The alternative is to stop the bus for several minutes at a time for no apparent reason somewhere in the city which would lead to unhappy passengers. The Garda traffic people wouldn't be too happy either with the bus lane blocked.

LXFlyer

coylemj wrote: »

It could but it doesn't. The timetable for every route shows the same estimated time to get to the airport regardless of time of day.



The alternative is to stop the bus for several minutes at a time for no apparent reason somewhere in the city which would lead to unhappy passengers. The Garda traffic people wouldn't be too happy either with the bus lane blocked.

You can't win on this - either a bus service should have consistent headways or get there in the fastest time possible.

Personally I believe consistency is the better option, but with realistic timetables that reflect the reality of traffic en route.

coylemj

lxflyer wrote: »

You can't win on this - either a bus service should have consistent headways or get there in the fastest time possible.

+1 as a frequent user of the 46A I'm aware of that issue, there's no easy solution.

lxflyer wrote: »

Personally I believe consistency is the better option, but with realistic timetables that reflect the reality of traffic en route.

You definitely need consistency for an hourly service like the Greystones Aircoach but when the Leopardstown Aircoach is running every 15 minutes (as it does from 04:30 to 23:59), I don't really see why it should slowdown or wait, people can check the next arrival time for their stop on the Aircoach smartphone app.

LXFlyer

coylemj wrote: »

+1 as a frequent user of the 46A I'm aware of that issue, there's no easy solution.



You definitely need consistency for an hourly service like the Greystones Aircoach but when the Leopardstown Aircoach is running every 15 minutes (as it does from 04:30 to 23:59), I don't really see why it should slowdown or wait, people can check the next arrival time for their stop on the Aircoach smartphone app.

Well the first solution is to provide full timetables that match up with driver bills and show projected arrival times at the terminus - that means passengers can select the bus that should arrive where they want to go when they want to.

The second part of the solution is to provide indented bus bays that, outside of peak times, allow buses to wait at certain locations to provide a consistent service along the entire route and not create large gaps.

coylemj

lxflyer wrote: »

Well the first solution is to provide full timetables that match up with driver bills and show projected arrival times at the terminus - that means passengers can select the bus that should arrive where they want to go when they want to.

The second part of the solution is to provide indented bus bays that, outside of peak times, allow buses to wait at certain locations to provide a consistent service along the entire route and not create large gaps.

That's an attempt to reproduce the consistency and predictability of a train service on a bus route shared with cars and commercial traffic which is just not possible.

If I'm on an Aircoach going to the airport, I sure as hell don't want the driver pulling into a bay in Leeson St. and waiting there for several minutes simply to maintain a fixed and consistent service for the people who might be waiting at a stop in Drumcondra - so what if they have to wait 20 or 25 minutes for a service that starts from the southside every 15 minutes?

LXFlyer

coylemj wrote: »

That's an attempt to reproduce the consistency and predictability of a train service on a bus route shared with cars and commercial traffic which is just not possible.

If I'm on an Aircoach going to the airport, I sure as hell don't want the driver pulling into a bay in Leeson St. and waiting there for several minutes simply to maintain a fixed and consistent service for the people who might be waiting at a stop in Drumcondra - so what if they have to wait 20 or 25 minutes for a service that starts from the southside every 15 minutes?

Actually that is best practice and what bus operators across the world actually do. It's just in Dublin where they don't.

I'm addressing not just Aircoach here but also our city bus service.

Passengers should be able to look at the timetable and pick the service that gets them where they want to go by the projected arrival time. Whether it waits or not along the way shouldn't be an issue as you will still get to your destination on time.

Providing a consistent bus service is what is needed to develop the service as a network. If you don't bother even trying then it's pointless.

Your attitude is pretty selfish frankly - everyone deserves a decent service - not just you.

coylemj

lxflyer wrote: »

Your attitude is pretty selfish frankly - everyone deserves a decent service - not just you.

The current service I can live with. I often get the 46A to Dun Laoghaire from Stillorgan and I'm well aware of how the vagaries of city traffic means that buses often get bunched so they arrive in twos or threes or the gap between successive buses widens and there could be a 30 minutes gap between two of them but the RTPI system means that I don't have to stand at a bus stop for 30 minutes and for me that's all that matters.

Far from being selfish, what I'm saying is that I don't see why people should have to sit on a stationary 46A that has pulled over in a bay at the Burlo simply to guarantee me a service every 15 minutes.

LXFlyer

coylemj wrote: »

The current service I can live with. I often get the 46A to Dun Laoghaire from Stillorgan and I'm well aware of how the vagaries of city traffic means that buses often get bunched so they arrive in twos or threes or the gap between successive buses widens and there could be a 30 minutes gap between two of them but the RTPI system means that I don't have to stand at a bus stop for 30 minutes and for me that's all that matters.

That's fine for you. You don't have to wait, but what about people who are trying to make connections from or to other bus routes? They don't have that luxury.

There is a bigger picture here which is a developing a bus network that actually allows people switch between orbital and radial routes.

It's selfish attitudes like yours that has us in the mess we are in, i.e. Just focus on yourself and to hell with everyone else.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that at peak times buses should be delayed, but absolutely during off-peak headways should be maintained.

coylemj

lxflyer wrote: »

Actually that is best practice and what bus operators across the world actually do. It's just in Dublin where they don't.

Which cities currently have this utopian bus service?

LXFlyer

coylemj wrote: »

Far from being selfish, what I'm saying is that I don't see why people should have to sit on a stationary 46A that has pulled over in a bay at the Burlo simply to guarantee me a service every 15 minutes.

You keep missing the point that people will have a reasonable idea when each bus would get to where they are going by having a complete timetable.

Bus Eireann have just done exactly that with their new 103 and 105 timetables.

You will already know when the bus is due to get you to where you're going.

What's the issue with it actually operating on time?

LXFlyer

coylemj wrote: »

Which cities currently have this utopian bus service?

Quite a lot.

In London buses are often regulated and will wait at stops along the route. Every bus route has a stop by stop timetable and the driver boards have official intermediate times at certain locations which they must adhere to if running early.

Most cities on the continent operate the same principle.

markpb

coylemj wrote:

If I'm on an Aircoach going to the airport, I sure as hell don't want the driver pulling into a bay in Leeson St. and waiting there for several minutes simply to maintain a fixed and consistent service for the people who might be waiting at a stop in Drumcondra - so what if they have to wait 20 or 25 minutes for a service that starts from the southside every 15 minutes?

The dichotomy of public transport is that your needs when you're waiting for it are the opposite of your needs when you're on it. People waiting want a predictable arrival time, people on it want a short journey time. It's not up to you to decide which customers are more important than others.

In my experience, Aircoach do wait at stops (or drive slowly between stops) to maintain the timetable so clearly think people in drumcondra are just as important as you.

coylemj

markpb wrote: »

The dichotomy of public transport is that your needs when you're waiting for it are the opposite of your needs when you're on it.

No they are not. I want the bus that's heading to my stop to get to me without delay and when I get on the bus, I want it to continue to the destination without delay. That makes me just as important as the people already on the bus, and those waiting down the line.

markpb wrote: »

It's not up to you to decide which customers are more important than others.

See above answer.

markpb wrote: »

People waiting want a predictable arrival time, people on it want a short journey time.

If it's an hourly service like the Greystones Aircoach, I agree 100%, you need to know when the bus is coming. If it's a service that leaves the terminus every 15 minutes like the Leopardstown Aircoach or the 46A from the Phoenix Park, I say just let it take it's chances in the traffic and don't try to manipulate the frequency with unnecessary stops and layovers.

markpb wrote: »

In my experience, Aircoach do wait at stops (our drive slowly between stops) to maintain the timetable so clearly think people in drumcondra are just as important as you.

The Greystones Aircoach does that because all of the stops have specific published times, I'm not aware that the Leopardstown or city centre Aircoach services observes set times for each stop.

Marcusm

lxflyer wrote: »

Quite a lot.

In London buses are often regulated and will wait at stops along the route. Every bus route has a stop by stop timetable and the driver boards have official intermediate times at certain locations which they must adhere to if running early.

Most cities on the continent operate the same principle.

I haven't seen this in London over the 10 or so years since the real time route information system was widely rolled out. It might apply is outer boroughs but certainly not in central zones over the past 10 years. More likely to get early terminating (surprise!) routes where they bunch up. Otherwise idling is generally discouraged.

schemingbohemia

coylemj wrote: »

No they are not. I want the bus that's heading to my stop to get to me without delay and when I get on the bus, I want it to continue to the destination without delay. That makes me just as important as the people already on the bus, and those waiting down the line.



See above answer.



If it's an hourly service like the Greystones Aircoach, I agree 100%, you need to know when the bus is coming. If it's a service that leaves the terminus every 15 minutes like the Leopardstown Aircoach or the 46A from the Phoenix Park, I say just let it take it's chances in the traffic and don't try to manipulate the frequency with unnecessary stops and layovers.



The Greystones Aircoach does that because all of the stops have specific published times, I'm not aware that the Leopardstown or city centre Aircoach services observes set times for each stop.

But how do those down the line know when the bus is coming? With your fly as fast as the wind bus service people will be waiting on the off chance the bus arrives very early, no? That's not sustainable for people planning trips.

LXFlyer

Marcusm wrote: »

I haven't seen this in London over the 10 or so years since the real time route information system was widely rolled out. It might apply is outer boroughs but certainly not in central zones over the past 10 years. More likely to get early terminating (surprise!) routes where they bunch up. Otherwise idling is generally discouraged.

Not in the heart of the city centre they don't.

But where there is roadspace to do so they certainly do wait for their official time at the designated locations. I've been on buses regulated at Waterloo for example.

The principle is most definitely operated.

Marcusm

lxflyer wrote: »

Not in the heart of the city centre they don't.

But where there is roadspace to do so they certainly do wait for their official time at the designated locations. I've been on buses regulated at Waterloo for example.

The principle is most definitely operated.

At Waterloo in off street spaces and only to avoid bunching up at Aldwych while they consider early termination, inspector etc. It's not a usual occurrence in central London since introduction of real time info screens. And by central, I mean to zone 2 and beyond. The change in practice was very obvious to me living there until April.

LXFlyer

Marcusm wrote: »

At Waterloo in off street spaces and only to avoid bunching up at Aldwych while they consider early termination, inspector etc. It's not a usual occurrence in central London since introduction of real time info screens. And by central, I mean to zone 2 and beyond. The change in practice was very obvious to me living there until April.

I did already state that it happens only at designated points where there are either indented bays or off-street stops.

And I already said it would be to maintain headways and avoid bunching.

It clearly won't happen where there isn't road space to do so. That's not sensible. Nor is stopping buses that are already full of passengers.

But I can assure you that on multiple trips around London by bus (and I have explored much of the network outside of zones 1 and 2 in recent years), I have noticed that it most certainly does happen.