Russia handed suspended sentence.

Fratton Fred

dodzy wrote: »

Correct, but they don't need them to get to France. I'm sure that those that relinquished their passports in favour of staying at home and then witnessed their own getting a whuppin will have been a bit aggrieved and will now contemplate joining their comrades to level the playing field somewhat over the coming days.

True, but it is a long way to swim.

Adamcp898

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Yes, there are thugs on both sides but I'm finding it hard to get my head around the way many on this forum are apologists for English hooligans who have been a blight on the game for many years.
This is a balanced article (very rare these days!) in my opinion, well worth a read.

This is an interesting point- why are the English fans in Lille when they are not playing there? I know Lens and Lille are very close but it still a valid point.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/euro-2016-russian-insider-reveals-football-hooligans-are-more-than-ultras-who-train-for-fights-with-a7082531.html

That article is anything but balanced Perhaps it just expresses a point of view that you haven't heard yet but it certainly isn't balanced.

And as others have pointed out Lens is a tiny place, as in you can fit the whole town population into the stadium and still have seats left over kind of small. That's why travelling fans are in the nearby towns such as Lille as well.

wilhelm roentgen

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I'm finding it hard to get my head around the way many on this forum are apologists for English hooligans

Who are they?

andekwarhola

darced wrote: »

Kicking a ball about? The scumbags.

You didn't read that post fully, did you?

Fratton Fred

Lillie is also where the Eurostar stops, so any one traveling by train would transit through there.

Harry Palmr

Its as if UEFA thought how can we create a powder keg with our structuring of the tournament......I know we'll keep the English and Russians cheek by jowl through the group stage and then stick one of the games in a tiny town just next to where the Russians will be massed.

Superhorse

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Yes, there are thugs on both sides but I'm finding it hard to get my head around the way many on this forum are apologists for English hooligans who have been a blight on the game for many years.
This is a balanced article (very rare these days!) in my opinion, well worth a read.

This is an interesting point- why are the English fans in Lille when they are not playing there? I know Lens and Lille are very close but it still a valid point.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/euro-2016-russian-insider-reveals-football-hooligans-are-more-than-ultras-who-train-for-fights-with-a7082531.html

People are easily lead and influenced by special interest media and are unable to form their own opinions I'm afraid. It's obvious to anyone with any intelligence both English and Russian fans are responsible for trouble thus far but if people refuse to take their heads out of their collective backside they are unable to form a balanced opinion. This thread is an excellent example of that ignorance.

RoryMac

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Its as if UEFA thought how can we create a powder keg with our structuring of the tournament......I know we'll keep the English and Russians cheek by jowl through the group stage and then stick one of the games in a tiny town just next to where the Russians will be massed.

Playing devils advocate here as I think the French have handled it very badly but were all of the locations for the games/groups set out before the draw?

citytillidie

RoryMac wrote: »

Playing devils advocate here as I think the French have handled it very badly but were all of the locations for the games/groups set out before the draw?

Yes all location and games were set up before the draw.

twowheelsonly

Superhorse wrote: »

England and Russia fans at it again. Come on UEFA grow a set and throw both these nations out.

http://www.101greatgoals.com/101ggvideos/england-russian-fans-get-involved-late-night-brawl-lille-police-use-pepper-spray-video/

Other reports claimed that this was Russian and Slovak supporters ??

couerdelion

Superhorse wrote: »

People are easily lead and influenced by special interest media and are unable to form their own opinions I'm afraid. It's obvious to anyone with any intelligence both English and Russian fans are responsible for trouble thus far but if people refuse to take their heads out of their collective backside they are unable to form a balanced opinion. This thread is an excellent example of that ignorance.

Having an opinion is fine. Being able to take an impartial view and then form an opinion is completely different.

The English fans are responsible for the trouble just by being there, refusing to run away, and a past history of hooliganism that makes them a target for every other nation who wants to move up a place in the "hooliganism rankings".

Yes, they have a bad element, drink way too much and also sing some stupid hate-filled songs but that in itself shouldn't be an open invitation to attack them.

The Marseille fans had a go, the Russians have had a go and still it's seen that the English must have done something. I don't doubt that there would still have been the odd arrest for drunken yobbish behaviour but, if it wasn't for the constant attacks, none of it would have made the news. All the known trouble makers are reporting into the police stations on a regular basis - there will still be an element of unknown / not caught yet but its not worth fighting or generally being an idiot anywhere near a football match - look at the lad who got caught on camera throwing a chair - 5 year ban.

tigger123

citytillidie wrote: »

Yes all location and games were set up before the draw.

That's crazy.

ArmaniJeanss

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Its as if UEFA thought how can we create a powder keg with our structuring of the tournament......I know we'll keep the English and Russians cheek by jowl through the group stage and then stick one of the games in a tiny town just next to where the Russians will be massed.

The games/venues are pre-determined and the draw merely slots the teams in.
If it ever gets to the stage that we need to segregate a draw such that teams need to be kept on different sides of the host country then it'll be time to switch off the lights.

citytillidie

tigger123 wrote: »

That's crazy.

Yep and should really have paired groups and cities so fans don't have to travel the length of the country between games.

ArmaniJeanss

citytillidie wrote: »

Yep and should really have paired groups and cities so fans don't have to travel the length of the country between games.

Meh, travelling and seeing different areas of the country is one of the better parts of it imo, like who'd want to be stuck in a Lyons/StEtienne or Lens/Lille group for 14 days.
And someone will still end up being the team who needs to travel twice (like Ireland on its Poznan/Gdansk/Poznan rotation in '12).

dodzy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

True, but it is a long way to swim.

Boat or train / car through tunnel. No need to get wet. No passport needed.

Fratton Fred

This is why we have Austria v Iceland in the Stade Dr France.

I wonder if it's sold out?

Fratton Fred

dodzy wrote: »

Boat or train / car through tunnel. No need to get wet. No passport needed.

You need a passport/id card for the boat and train.

robinph

dodzy wrote: »

Boat or train / car through tunnel. No need to get wet. No passport needed.

People have tried getting through the tunnel in the opposite direction without a passport alright, but it is still a long walk or you have to ride in the back of a lorry with 50 other people.

You need a passport to get between UK and France.

Superhorse

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/06/12/20/3528118900000578-3637944-A_topless_England_fan_hurls_a_bottle_towards_police_personnel_as-a-2_1465760357435.jpg

Nuffin to do with us guv. It's those dirty Russians innit.

Gatling

Superhorse wrote: »

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/06/12/20/3528118900000578-3637944-A_topless_England_fan_hurls_a_bottle_towards_police_personnel_as-a-2_1465760357435.jpg

Nuffin to do with us guv. It's those dirty Russians innit.

Wonder if they had there passports to hand for the photo

Superhorse

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/06/12/20/3528078700000578-3637944-England_fans_hurl_bottles_at_Russia_supporters_as_the_atmosphere-a-19_1465760666536.jpg

Anyone for tea?

Jelle1880

Superhorse wrote: »

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/06/12/20/3528118900000578-3637944-A_topless_England_fan_hurls_a_bottle_towards_police_personnel_as-a-2_1465760357435.jpg

Nuffin to do with us guv. It's those dirty Russians innit.

Said nobody ever.

But it's a fact that in at least the first 2-3 instances it were the English who were first attacked by locals and then twice by Russians.

That they too indulged in violence is a given, doesn't change those facts though.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Superhorse wrote: »

People are easily lead and influenced by special interest media and are unable to form their own opinions I'm afraid.

Are you for real? Your biased one sided argument, it's incredibly biased and one sided.

Superhorse wrote: »

It's obvious to anyone with any intelligence both English and Russian fans are responsible for trouble thus far but if people refuse to take their heads out of their collective backside they are unable to form a balanced opinion. This thread is an excellent example of that ignorance.

The part in bold there, it completely nullifies any argument you may have had. It's an incredibly weak form of debate. I may lack the cognitive capacity to explain your tactics correctly, or just lack the vocabulary. I think your argument falls under the logical fallacy of ad hominem. By insinuating that somebody who disagrees with you, lacks intelligence, makes your point stronger (somehow)... Is complete and utter bull feces.

Elmer Blooker

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Lillie is also where the Eurostar stops, so any one traveling by train would transit through there.

Of course Brussels is just up the road from Lille but I doubt if the Belgians are in the mood to accommodate the English.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3Zztjp2Ha4

Russian car full of hardware stopped.

... were Pussy Riot in the car?

andekwarhola

dodzy wrote: »

No passport needed.

Not true.

glued

The problem is that the English fans continually draw attention to themselves and perhaps their reputation proceeds them. I've never seen any other countries' fans continuously end up in trouble like the English do.

Signing about the empire and not being able to drink aren't going to be well received anywhere in the world. The majority of English fans are obviously well behaved but there is no doubt an element of idiots that think they can march around these tournaments like hard men and do whatever they please.

They're a complete embrassment to their country and to the FA. When is the last time we didn't have to deal with nonsense from their fans on a mass scale?

I've personally witnessed their bullsh1t in Germany 06 and Poland in 2012. I'm not in France so can't speak about current events but it's no surprise that the Russians would seek to challenge the English as they seem to have stolen the hooligan limelight at all the previous tournaments.

andekwarhola

Superhorse wrote: »

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/06/12/20/3528118900000578-3637944-A_topless_England_fan_hurls_a_bottle_towards_police_personnel_as-a-2_1465760357435.jpg

Nuffin to do with us guv. It's those dirty Russians innit.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2016/06/13/100428266_Russian-fans-clash-England-NEWS-xlarge_trans++YYez6bMh04s2ZuuCSrD4Iikz1ktAVp0Zd4rReKAdrQI.jpg



Not to do with us, komrad. It was ze Englishers.


* Actually, this requires far less effort than making an intelligent point. I can see the attraction if you can endure the embarrassment.

Jelle1880

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Of course Brussels is just up the road from Lille but I doubt if the Belgians are in the mood to accommodate the English.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3Zztjp2Ha4

You seem to be very interested in only posting stuff the English did.
Why ?

Tell me: When have you seen scenes like below in the UK or even in western Europe in general in the last few years ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM0n5x8uCM4

Denying that Russia (and some other countries in the area) have a far worse hooligan problem is just silly.

Good that you post that video though, as it highlights the massive difference in handling of riots by the Belgian police and their French colleagues. The former were (in general) on top of riots when they happened and nicked the guilty asap. The latter ones are more interested in pickup any stragglers and throwing tear gas around among innocents.

Peist2007

Superhorse wrote: »

People are easily lead and influenced by special interest media and are unable to form their own opinions I'm afraid. It's obvious to anyone with any intelligence both English and Russian fans are responsible for trouble thus far but if people refuse to take their heads out of their collective backside they are unable to form a balanced opinion. This thread is an excellent example of that ignorance.

I agree with most of Putin's geopolitical manouvres over the past number of years but the fault in Marseilles lies with the Russian fans. They came organised and looking to fight. The English more or less did not. The English are rowdy, messy and do not give a crap about the places they visit but they were attacked in Marseilles. First by locals on the first couple of nights and then by the Russians on matchday. They reacted but they were attacked.

Fratton Fred

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Of course Brussels is just up the road from Lille but I doubt if the Belgians are in the mood to accommodate the English.

Why would you go all the way to Brussels when traveling from London to Lens?

That is yet another truly bizarre thing you've come out with.

El Reich

Peist2007 wrote: »

I agree with most of Putin's geopolitical manouvres over the past number of years but the fault in Marseilles lies with the Russian fans. They came organised and looking to fight. The English more or less did not. The English are rowdy, messy and do not give a crap about the places they visit but they were attacked in Marseilles. First by locals on the first couple of nights and then by the Russians on matchday. They reacted but they were attacked.

There is still no reason to retaliate in the manner some of the English "fans" have. Of course if you are attacked you should defend yourself but firing bottles, chairs and wiping your hole with the Russian flag is just escalating things.

There is plenty of questionable behavior by supporters from this island too. Blaming the "English" or "Irish" for the behaviour of a few idiots is silly.

Looks like they won't need to kick the Russians out at this point. I can see this turning very nasty regardless of whether they are in or out..

Elmer Blooker

Jelle1880 wrote: »

You seem to be very interested in only posting stuff the English did.
Why ?

Tell me: When have you seen scenes like below in the UK or even in western Europe in general in the last few years ?

The last two weeks you mean! On May 30th last Millwall fans charged Barnsley fans INSIDE Wembley stadium during a League 1 promotion play-off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmn46YKeDFI
I wouldn't be surprised if you haven't heard about it because neither did I until I heard Richie Sadlier mention it on the telly the other night. He's ex-Millwall and was there. It seems the British media did quite a good job keeping it quiet.

Why would you go all the way to Brussels when traveling from London to Lens?

I bet a lot of the more respectable and better off England supporters would be staying in Brussels, better accommodation, bars, restaurants, facilities than Lens.

Jelle1880

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

The last two weeks you mean! On May 30th last Millwall fans charged Barnsley fans INSIDE Wembley stadium during a League 1 promotion play-off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmn46YKeDFI
I wouldn't be surprised if you haven't heard about it because neither did I until I heard Richie Sadlier mention it on the telly the other night. He's ex-Millwall and was there. It seems the British media did quite a good job keeping it quiet.

That was plastered all over the English media so no, it wasn't kept quiet.

But even that is miles behind what the Russians did.

Superhorse

England fans gathering in Lille, where England aren't even playing but Russia are. Ummm

#onlysippingacoffeemate

gandalf

Superhorse wrote: »

England fans gathering in Lille, where England aren't even playing but Russia are. Ummm

#onlysippingacoffeemate

Because they were told by the Authorities to stay in Lille instead of Lens. Obviously this was before everything kicked off in Marseilles but I'd say it's nearly impossible to change your accommodation plans at the last minute when there is so much demand during the Championships.

citytillidie

Superhorse wrote: »

England fans gathering in Lille, where England aren't even playing but Russia are. Ummm

#onlysippingacoffeemate

England and Wales fans told to gather in Lille by organisers as Lens is too small to to hold them all.

#noagenda

Elmer Blooker

Jelle1880 wrote: »

But even that is miles behind what the Russians did.

How do you come to that conclusion? Is a riot like a boxing match where points are awarded for the most punches thrown? How is a riot judged?
I watch the media all the time BBC news, Sky, Sky Sports news etc and heard nothing about it.

gandalf

citytillidie wrote: »

England and Wales fans told to gather in Lille by organisers as Lens is too small to to hold them all.

#noagenda

In hindsight the authorities have managed this very badly and really didn't analyse the risk properly.

Jelle1880

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

How do you come to that conclusion? Is a riot like a boxing match where points are awarded for the most punches thrown? How is a riot judged?
I watch the media all the time BBC news, Sky, Sky Sports news etc and heard nothing about it.

At Wembley you have some guys rushing each other, throwing punches and stewards intervening pretty fast.

In Marseille you have Russian fans charging an entire stand of England fans, causing many of them to climb over fences and walls to get away.

Do you see the difference ?

As for coverage:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/05/29/barnsley-3-1-millwall-adam-hammills-screamer-helps-barnsley-win/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3615235/Barnsley-play-final-win-overshadowed-violent-scenes-Millwall-supporters-breach-police-barrier-Wembley.html
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/shocking-footage-of-millwall-and-barnsley-fans-fighting-on-wembley-way-a3259511.html
http://metro.co.uk/2016/05/29/millwall-fans-break-through-police-barrier-and-being-charging-at-barnsley-supporters-5912241/
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/footage-shows-millwall-and-barnsley-fans-fighting-outside-wembley-after-league-one-play-off-final-a7056526.html
http://news.sky.com/story/1703941/scuffles-at-millwall-barnsley-play-off-final
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36410247

All rather big news outlets imo who report on it. Although I do agree that in England it tends to get sort of ignored in an attempt not to tarnish the image of football, but it's not being swept under the carpet.

Fratton Fred

Jelle1880 wrote: »

All rather big news outlets imo who report on it. Although I do agree that in England it tends to get sort of ignored in an attempt not to tarnish the image of football, but it's not being swept under the carpet.

It was a league one game. The English media ignores everything outside of the premiership and the Irish media aren't even aware league one exists.

How much coverage did the trouble at Dalymount this year get in the media?

If it isn't top flight football, the media couldn't give a toss.

Pepe LeFrits

Their sentence was suspended for 2 games. Badum-tish.

Elmer Blooker

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It was a league one game. The English media ignores everything outside of the premiership and the Irish media aren't even aware league one exists.

Very lame. This wasn't just a melee outside an east end pub, it was within the hallowed ground of Wembley stadium.(1966 and all that)
It has been claimed that Russians charged "women and children" in Marseille which may or may not have been the case but I presume the Barnsley fans at Wembley were 100% men with no women and children present.

I'm quite amused at the moment watching BBC news "the Russians who caused so much trouble in Marseille" it has just said. We'll ignore the fact that the streets of Marseille were already littered in broken glass after pitched battles between French and British hooligans before the first punches were even thrown between English and Russian fans. Such misinformation.

gandalf

I'm loving how the "Russian Defence League" has suddenly taken an interest in football

Peist2007

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I'm quite amused at the moment watching BBC news "the Russians who caused so much trouble in Marseille" it has just said. We'll ignore the fact that the streets of Marseille were already littered in broken glass after pitched battles between French and British hooligans before the first punches were even thrown between English and Russian fans. Such misinformation.

You're providing the misinformation here. Locals attacked the English the night before their game. It was reported as such from impartial observers on the scene like Irish Times journo Ken Early. The Russians came organised to fight English hooligans the next day. There were little to no English hooligans present so the Russian hooligans attacked everyone and anyone that came into their path, as their own uploaded "Go-Pro" footage shows. This is what happened.

Looking forward for Russia to be gone. Their team and their fans are sh1te

Elmer Blooker

Peist2007 wrote: »

You're providing the misinformation here. Locals attacked the English the night before their game. It was reported as such from impartial observers on the scene like Irish Times journo Ken Early. The Russians came organised to fight English hooligans the next day. There were little to no English hooligans present so the Russian hooligans attacked everyone and anyone that came into their path, as their own uploaded "Go-Pro" footage shows. This is what happened.

Looking forward for Russia to be gone. Their team and their fans are sh1te

Jaysus! Have you just arrived from Mars? English hooligans are present at EVERY tournament! If England didn't qualify there wouldn't be thread like this one exclusively dealing with the subject of hooliganism.
Was that go-pro thing a joke? About 10 fat blokes running down the street :pac:

I'm loving how the "Russian Defence League" has suddenly taken an interest in football

Complain to a mod then if you want censorship!

Gatling

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

If England didn't qualify there wouldn't be thread like this one exclusively dealing with the subject of hooliganis

Can you please read the thread title ,

Russian hooligans

Russia handed suspended sentence

TonyCliftonEsq

Peist2007 wrote: »

You're providing the misinformation here. Locals attacked the English the night before their game. It was reported as such from impartial observers on the scene like Irish Times journo Ken Early. The Russians came organised to fight English hooligans the next day. There were little to no English hooligans present so the Russian hooligans attacked everyone and anyone that came into their path, as their own uploaded "Go-Pro" footage shows. This is what happened.

Looking forward for Russia to be gone. Their team and their fans are sh1te

English angels, terrible how they are totally innocent in all of this.

Obviously the French police are to blame for them being tear gassed as of this moment in Lille

http://news.sky.com/story/1712421/tear-gas-fired-at-england-fans-in-lille

LiamoSail

TonyCliftonEsq wrote: »

English angels, terrible how they are totally innocent in all of this.

Obviously the French police are to blame for them being tear gassed as of this moment in Lille

http://news.sky.com/story/1712421/tear-gas-fired-at-england-fans-in-lille

Even if the English fans are blameless, karma can be a cnut

Elmer Blooker

TonyCliftonEsq wrote: »

English angels, terrible how they are totally innocent in all of this.

Obviously the French police are to blame for them being tear gassed as of this moment in Lille

http://news.sky.com/story/1712421/tear-gas-fired-at-england-fans-in-lille

The Associated Press reports that a group of about 200 English fans had been singing songs about Russia before the loud explosion was heard, and bottles were thrown.

This is happening in a city where Russia played this afternoon. England play in another town tomorrow, these fans are there with the sole purpose of causing trouble! Spare me the "Lens is too small" BS please.