Luas Fine

Tobi101

Basically, I was at the four courts luas stop with a friend and tagged-on on arrival, we had to wait 4mins for the luas. During the 4mins I got caught up in conversation and then wasn't sure if I had tagged on or not as the luas approached. I tagged the leap card again and subsequently was tagged-off. This resulted in a €1.39 charge for waiting at the same luas stop for the 4mins. I tried mutliple times to try tag back on but the machine displayed a message "ticket just validated" therefore I was unable to tag back on. Because I was already charged a certain amount I decided to take the luas anyway. I have the transaction history from my registered leap card account to prove I did in fact try to pay and that I was charged the €1.39. And I would have payed if the machine had of tagged me on. Anyway, I was fined €45 for not having a valid ticket. I explained my story to the inspector, he even checked the history and still issued the Standard Fare but said I could appeal. So I completed a statement of explanation only to get rejected. I take the luas on a daily basis and I'm just pissed off that my silly mistake now costs me €45 euro. Do I have any other options to try appeal, do you think my situation should be reasonable enough to get the fine dropped or should I just give in and waste €45?

Jamie2k9

Tobi101 wrote: »

Basically, I was at the four courts luas stop with a friend and tagged-on on arrival, we had to wait 4mins for the luas. During the 4mins I got caught up in conversation and then wasn't sure if I had tagged on or not as the luas approached. I tagged the leap card again and subsequently was tagged-off. This resulted in a €1.39 charge for waiting at the same luas stop for the 4mins. I tried mutliple times to try tag back on but the machine displayed a message "ticket just validated" therefore I was unable to tag back on. Because I was already charged a certain amount I decided to take the luas anyway. I have the transaction history from my registered leap card account to prove I did in fact try to pay and that I was charged the €1.39. And I would have payed if the machine had of tagged me on. Anyway, I was fined €45 for not having a valid ticket. I explained my story to the inspector, he even checked the history and still issued the Standard Fare but said I could appeal. So I completed a statement of explanation only to get rejected. I take the luas on a daily basis and I'm just pissed off that my silly mistake now costs me €45 euro. Do I have any other options to try appeal, do you think my situation should be reasonable enough to get the fine dropped or should I just give in and waste €45?

Was under the impression that tagging on/off at the same stop results in no charges.

As for the reasoning the inspector was correct, everybody has an excuse if they get caught (Don't take that personally from me). You just need to pay and move on however query the 1.39 charge with Leap.

magicbastarder

seems to me there's a fault in the system if you can't change your mind after tagging on.
by 'fault' i mean that they haven't allowed for that possibility - assuming that tagging on and then off again is not possible without charge.

Jamie2k9

magicbastarder wrote: »

seems to me there's a fault in the system if you can't change your mind after tagging on.
by 'fault' i mean that they haven't allowed for that possibility - assuming that tagging on and then off again is not possible without charge.

You have to wait at least 3 minutes before tagging off and there should be no charge however prehaps after a certain period of time a charge kicks in as they may think a round trip as been done.

magicbastarder

might be worth it if the OP was to ask for clarification on what time limits etc. are allowed - for example, if there is a time limit of 3 minutes, and he had waited 4 minutes, i'd consider it a reasonable request to ask them to quash the fine as a goodwill gesture, based on the difference of one minute.

OldNotWIse

They have to make up the 18% payrises somehow...

cdeb

You can check your card's status at the ticket machines - they can tell you if you're logged on or not.

But not at the validation machines unfortunately.

OldNotWIse

Whats with the time delay? This happened me before. Accidentally stayed on the luas going from belgard to citywest instead of getting off to transfer to Tallaght one. Tagged off when I got off at the next stop. Crossed over the platoform to hop a luas back to Belgard and it wouldn't let me tag on. There was a luas coming so I just got on, but presumably if I'd been stopped I would have been booked for travelling the wrong direction.

Jamie2k9

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Whats with the time delay? This happened me before. Accidentally stayed on the luas going from belgard to citywest instead of getting off to transfer to Tallaght one. Tagged off when I got off at the next stop. Crossed over the platoform to hop a luas back to Belgard and it wouldn't let me tag on. There was a luas coming so I just got on, but presumably if I'd been stopped I would have been booked for travelling the wrong direction.

Would image to ensure people are paying fares. With most services operating around 5 minute mark there is very little chances of somebody tagging on and then if there is no RPU on trams tagging off and then boarding with the 3 minute delay.

They need to make it longer as at night I suspect it happens a bit.

Lisa78

Something similar happened my husband and we're still waiting to hear back from the appeal - not holding out much hope now that I've heard yours was rejected.
My husband thought he hadn’t tagged on, so he tried to tag on again (he didn’t realise at the time you could check if it was tagged on with the ticket machines). The validator did not show him that he had tagged off – I can’t remember the exact wording, but it came up as something like – already validated. So we got on the Luas as normal as he was unaware that his card had tagged off. We didn’t think anything of it until the inspector checked his leap card and it showed as invalid, and when I checked his card on the ticket machine at the George’s Dock stop, it showed the 2 transactions and we realised what had happened. We explained all this to the inspector and he gave us the impression that it would be fine - he said it would be checked and we'd hear from them about the outcome. Then the letter arrived saying we hadn't paid the fine and it was now €100, so I've sent in details to appeal it. My husband and I both use the Luas 2/3 times a day so I've sent them the history of his leap card for the past year to show that he's never tried to cheat the Luas and it's honest paying customers, which is what was stated in the letter.

Tobi101

Lisa78 wrote: »

Something similar happened my husband and we're still waiting to hear back from the appeal - not holding out much hope now that I've heard yours was rejected.
My husband thought he hadn’t tagged on, so he tried to tag on again (he didn’t realise at the time you could check if it was tagged on with the ticket machines). The validator did not show him that he had tagged off – I can’t remember the exact wording, but it came up as something like – already validated. So we got on the Luas as normal as he was unaware that his card had tagged off. We didn’t think anything of it until the inspector checked his leap card and it showed as invalid, and when I checked his card on the ticket machine at the George’s Dock stop, it showed the 2 transactions and we realised what had happened. We explained all this to the inspector and he gave us the impression that it would be fine - he said it would be checked and we'd hear from them about the outcome. Then the letter arrived saying we hadn't paid the fine and it was now €100, so I've sent in details to appeal it. My husband and I both use the Luas 2/3 times a day so I've sent them the history of his leap card for the past year to show that he's never tried to cheat the Luas and it's honest paying customers, which is what was stated in the letter.

You should have received a letter stating that your appeal has been rejected before a €100 fine is issued. So hopefully you won't have to pay the €100 and they will just request the €45.

Unfortunately I had no luck with getting the appeal changed within the 2 weeks and payed the €45 just to avoid any further fines. I'm the same, I use the luas daily and have the history on my leap card to support it. I just find it ridiculous that there is no leniency towards everyday users for stupid errors like this. Basically if you're in the wrong you're wrong.

I'd be interested in finding out how you're appeal goes.

Lisa78

Tobi101 wrote: »

You should have received a letter stating that your appeal has been rejected before a €100 fine is issued. So hopefully you won't have to pay the €100 and they will just request the €45.

Unfortunately I had no luck with getting the appeal changed within the 2 weeks and payed the €45 just to avoid any further fines. I'm the same, I use the luas daily and have the history on my leap card to support it. I just find it ridiculous that there is no leniency towards everyday users for stupid errors like this. Basically if you're in the wrong you're wrong.

I'd be interested in finding out how you're appeal goes.

No problem - I'll let you know what they say.

Lisa78

My husband still hasn't heard back from Luas about this so we've thinking they might have accepted the appeal. He's going to contact them to try and find out.

bpb101

Dont pay, do an appeal process in writing and if that fails , write to them and tell them that you wish the court to decide to matter. As part of your defense, under the data protection act , you wish to get all information off them about you including video footage of you attempting to tag on and leapcard history.

FAILSAFE 00

Why do people actually give Luas operators their name and details when receiving a fine?

Just wondering.

savagethegoat

bpb101 wrote: »

Dont pay, do an appeal process in writing and if that fails , write to them and tell them that you wish the court to decide to matter. As part of your defense, under the data protection act , you wish to get all information off them about you including video footage of you attempting to tag on and leapcard history.

they already appealled.

bpb101

savagethegoat wrote: »

they already appealled.

yeah , i realized like a few minutes after posting:pac:

Lisa78

Just realised I never updated, sorry it's so late, but just in case anyone comes across this thread, we never heard anything from luas again, so they seemed to have realised it was their system that was at fault in our case.

bobbyss

IIf you tagged on at a platform. Then didn't get on at all for whatever reason; What happens?

schemingbohemia

bobbyss wrote: »

IIf you tagged on at a platform. Then didn't get on at all for whatever reason; What happens?

You get charged the max fare

Bob24

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

As for the reasoning the inspector was correct, everybody has an excuse if they get caught (Don't take that personally from me). You just need to pay and move on however query the 1.39 charge with Leap.

The inspector did their job but still I think it doesn’t mean the LUAS is operated correctly in this case.

There are flaws in the tag-on/tag-off system which also put me in annoying situations before forcing me to chose between waiting for a later tram, buying a more expensive paper ticket from the machine, or risking a fine. And for many people they will not even realise they are risking a fine because the way things work is not very clear.

marvin80

I had a similar issue and got a fine.
I tagged off, was dropping a book to a friend and went back to get the Luas less than 5 minutes later.
When I tagged on it said 'Already Validated' so I presumed I must have tagged off and on unknowingly.
Anyway, ticket inspector comes on, says I never tagged on and issues me a fine.
I had €40 on my leap card, so no reason not to tag on.
I appealed it and got a letter saying I had to pay the fine. Going to ring tomorrow to see what the story is.

Obviously a glitch in the system where it doesn't allow you to tag off and back on within a certain time limit.
Surely this is an error on their side and will rescind the fine (I hope anyway!!)

Jamie2k9

marvin80 wrote: »

I had a similar issue and got a fine.
I tagged off, was dropping a book to a friend and went back to get the Luas less than 5 minutes later.
When I tagged on it said 'Already Validated' so I presumed I must have tagged off and on unknowingly.
Anyway, ticket inspector comes on, says I never tagged on and issues me a fine.
I had €40 on my leap card, so no reason not to tag on.
I appealed it and got a letter saying I had to pay the fine. Going to ring tomorrow to see what the story is.

Obviously a glitch in the system where it doesn't allow you to tag off and back on within a certain time limit.
Surely this is an error on their side and will rescind the fine (I hope anyway!!)

3 or 4 minute between tagging on/off

tuisginideach

We took Luas out to Broombridge to experience the full journey - tagged off, then I couldn't tag on again for the Luas back which was leaving within minutes!

marvin80

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

3 or 4 minute between tagging on/off

I wasn't aware of that until the ticket inspector mentioned it to me after I explained my situation.
A bit stupid that there's a gap like that (obviously I'm a bit biased!)

Jamie2k9

marvin80 wrote: »

I wasn't aware of that until the ticket inspector mentioned it to me after I explained my situation.
A bit stupid that there's a gap like that (obviously I'm a bit biased!)

Well its not stupid, if there was no gap people would tag on and tag off if they saw no inspectors on trams.

Bob24

marvin80 wrote: »

I wasn't aware of that until the ticket inspector mentioned it to me after I explained my situation.
A bit stupid that there's a gap like that (obviously I'm a bit biased!)

It is a bit stupid indeed. I would understand 5 or 10 seconds to make sure don't tag on again by mistake after tagging off, but why several minutes?

No fine but it has annoyed me before as well. For exemple once I forgot to tag-off, somewhere I stopped for 20 minutes. When I came back after 20 minutes to get on the tram again and presented the Leap Card it tagged-off my previous journey. This is nice as otherwise I would have paid the max fee for that journey, but it also means I couldn't tag-on again for my further journey and I was confused as the message on the machine is not very clear. And even if you understand what's going on your are kind of stuck as you can't get on the tram unless you buy a more expensive paper ticket, wait, or get on without paying.

marvin80

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Well its not stupid, if there was no gap people would tag on and tag off if they saw no inspectors on trams.

Would it not be easier just to look and see if there's inspectors and if there's not, just hop on.
Why would you go to the trouble of tagging on, checking if there's inspectors on the tram and then if there's not, tagging off - that's stupid.

marvin80

Bob24 wrote: »

This is nice, but also means I couldn't tag-on again and I was confused as the machine is not very clear.

The message on the screen for me wasn't clear when it said it was already validated.
I know with Dublin Bikes if you take a bike and realise it has a puncture, you put it back. Then when you try to take another bike it gives you a message saying something like "You have to wait 10 minutes before you can take another bike".

If the luas validator gave me a message like that I would have waited and tagged on again.

Bob24

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Well its not stupid, if there was no gap people would tag on and tag off if they saw no inspectors on trams.

We are talking about tagging on again after having tagged off. I don't think allowing that would help in the scenario you are mentioning, or am I missing something? (I think you are talking about doing it the other way around?)

Arcade_Tryer

OldNotWIse wrote: »

They have to make up the 18% payrises somehow...

Frontline workers must be blamed for senior management decisions somehow...