New Bin Charges - Will you Pay More or Less

neris

Im reckoning mine will be just under €330 more expensive then what Im paying now with Panda in Fingal.

well whoopty fupin doo

The service charge is €86 per year (down from your current service charge of €110)

unkel

More. We will be going from €199 to over €600 per year

Family of 5 and our green recycling bin is so full I have to stamp on it every single collection (and then the stuff still doesn't fit in)

Ludo

unkel wrote: »

More. We will be going from €199 to over €600 per year

I would love to see the calculation for this 600. Is there a huge standing charge?

Mine is going from 350 to 325 roughly for family of five. I am obviously very lucky with my company.

Sleeper12

Ludo wrote:

I would love to see the calculation for this 600. Is there a huge standing charge?

Mine is going from 260 to over 500 per year. We're with Dublin City Bins. We've been paying by weight for the last 18 months.

We fill green bin, it gets compressed & we fill it again. We still don't have enough room so we bring as much again to dcc bring centre.

Everything that can legally go into Brown bin goes in there.

Black bin is full to the top every 2 weeks.

Dublin City Bins say that we recycle proportionality more than most households. There is no way we can recycle more. I can live with the 28 to 30 euro per month for paying by weight, it's the 15 euro per month standing charge that I object to.

Poochie05

foggy_lad wrote: »

many places don't have such luxuries as organic or even glass bins, here in Carlow Town it is blue for recycling and black for general waste only, AES have a brown organic bin but no glass bin.
most people will have bins weighing from 40kg twice a month to 70+kg twice a month paying 25-39cent per kg.

All urban areas should have a brown bin, which I am assuming includes Carlow Town. if your waste collector isn't providing you with one you should report them to the council, they can't have it both ways!

http://www.environ.ie/environment/waste/food-waste/biofood-waste

The actual regulations for Household Food Waste for anyone who is interested
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/si/430/made/en/pdf

unkel

Ludo wrote: »

I would love to see the calculation for this 600. Is there a huge standing charge?

Currently we pay €199 all in per year, including unlimited lifts of green, brown and black bin (all collected every other week)

New: €169 standing charge (before any brown / black lifts) plus black bin every other week @48kg, so 26 lifts * 48 * 35 cent = €428

Total €600

In fairness, we could probably get this down by maybe €40 or €50 by using the brown bin (more). We have very little food waste though and we compost all garden waste.

hairyslug

I reckon I'll be paying somewhere in the region of 500/600, we are currently paying around 360.

The big problem in our household is that there are 2 children still in nappies. We are just waiting to see if there will be any allowance made for people with special needs kids.

ryanduffycountydublin1975

unkel wrote: »

Currently we pay €199 all in per year, including unlimited lifts of green, brown and black bin (all collected every other week)

New: €169 standing charge (before any brown / black lifts) plus black bin every other week @48kg, so 26 lifts * 48 * 35 cent = €428

Total €600

In fairness, we could probably get this down by maybe €40 or €50 by using the brown bin (more). We have very little food waste though and we compost all garden waste.

What ministers and TD's have failed to realise is the abolition of the pay per weight system will not stop prices increases. It wouldn't matter if the pay per bin system remains, prices will still go up (exactly as outlined in my original article), I assure you off that. The waste cartel merely used the timing of the introduction of the new regulations to announce price increases and hope they went unnoticed (which they didn't) but I assure you pay per weight is not the cause of it, reduced competition is, which is a direct consequence of Panda's acquisition of Greenstar.

These TDs also fail to comprehend that unless the waste and recycling facilities such as the Dublin City Council MRF (which is currently run by Panda) are controlled by new parties not involved in the domestic collections, then real competition will never exist. Why? Because new entrants cannot operate when they have nowhere to bring their waste and recyclables other than the existing cartel members .

Furthermore, recycling facilities do not make money as therefore no new companies will enter the marketplace and build a waste and recycling facility as is there is no return on investment. It is that simple.

The only way new companies will enter the market is if they can bring the waste and recyclables to 3rd party facilities run by none of the existing domestic collectors. The poolbeg facility (run by Covanta) will offer a place to deliver general waste but there is still nowhere to deliver the green bin recyclables other than to thortons and the Dublin City Council Facility (run by Panda). So if the government want consumers to be protected and real competition to exist, they will need to take the 10 year lease Panda has on this and appoint a company to run the Dublin City Council MRF (someone is not involved in the collection of waste in Ireland).

ryanduffycountydublin1975

KoolKid wrote: »

Any truth in the stories that large companies and supermarkets etc are actually paid by the waste disposal companies to allow them to collect all the recyclable materials.
Now if that was to be introduced for domestic waste that would be the incentive needed to get people recycling properly.

Yes, waste and recycling companies buy baled commodities from large supermarkets. However, they are no sorting costs or contaminants and the materials are collected, loaded into containers and exported.

The collection of the recyclables in the green bin is completely different. For a start, they have to be sorted, which is expensive, there is over 30% out throw and a lot of the plastics such as trays etc are low valuable or even minus value.

What most people don't realise is not all plastics are recyclable or even ones that are recyclables, sometimes don't have value. For example, plastic films are primarily laminated to keep food fresh and cannot be recycled (remelted down).

However, waste companies do send most of their general waste to cement kilns and the general waste is a substitue to coal. Currently, they dont get paid by the cement kilns (they get charged approx €30 per tonne), but in time, they will get paid for general waste as more incinerators come online.

ryanduffycountydublin1975

KoolKid wrote: »

Any truth in the stories that large companies and supermarkets etc are actually paid by the waste disposal companies to allow them to collect all the recyclable materials.
Now if that was to be introduced for domestic waste that would be the incentive needed to get people recycling properly.

Yes, waste and recycling companies buy baled commodities from large supermarkets. However, there are no sorting costs or contaminants within the materials and once collected they are loaded directly into containers and exported.

The collection of the recyclables in the green bin is completely different. For a start, they have to be sorted, which is expensive, there is over 30% out throw (again expensive) and a lot of the plastics such as trays etc are low valuable or even minus value.

What most people don't realise is not all plastics are recyclable or even ones that are recyclables, sometimes don't have value. For example, plastic films are primarily laminated to keep food fresh and cannot be recycled (remelted down).

However, waste companies do send most of their general waste to cement kilns and the general waste is a substitute to coal. Currently, they don't get paid by the cement kilns (they get charged approx €30 per tonne), but in time, they will get paid for general waste as more incinerators come online.

foggy_lad

There is a lot of stuff that is not permitted in the recycling bins for most companies that the public and even our politicians(who are human too) will think should be recyclable.

Here is a list from Ray Whelans Carlow.



I have been putting most of the items on this list into my recycling bin! so people think it is expensive now, wait till the gougers start to crack down on the bin contents.

Alf Veedersane

foggy_lad wrote: »

There is a lot of stuff that is not permitted in the recycling bins for most companies that the public and even our politicians(who are human too) will think should be recyclable.

Here is a list from Ray Whelans Carlow.



I have been putting most of the items on this list into my recycling bin! so people think it is expensive now, wait till the gougers start to crack down on the bin contents.

To be fair, there's not much on that list that should be in the recycling bin.

Ludo

unkel wrote: »

Currently we pay €199 all in per year, including unlimited lifts of green, brown and black bin (all collected every other week)

New: €169 standing charge (before any brown / black lifts) plus black bin every other week @48kg, so 26 lifts * 48 * 35 cent = €428

Total €600

In fairness, we could probably get this down by maybe €40 or €50 by using the brown bin (more). We have very little food waste though and we compost all garden waste.

Thanks for that. That is pretty bad alright. The differences in prices between areas is incredible. They are gonna have to roll back n all this as charges like that are just stupid.

foggy_lad

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

To be fair, there's not much on that list that should be in the recycling bin.

Hard plastics? black bags? clothes/shoes? most of the outer plastic packaging on foods is not recyclable but the harder plastic trays are.

Spanish Eyes

I will pay more. No matter what company is touting for my business.

Cartels or us.

Leroy42

Currently we are told by our bin collector to ensure the bins are left out by 6.30 am, and they are then collected by the company.

But that is not feasible from 1 July as what is to stop any person from simply dumping their waste in my bin, as I am being asked to leave the bin outside my property? How can I then be held accountable for anything that is in the bin?

Surely the waste companies will not have to provide some sort of lock system or either to call into each dwelling to collect direct from the customer?

In addition, I can foresee many people asking to see the certificate for weight calibration from the vehicle for each lift, as we know from the NCT the cert can only really been taken as correct at the time of the cert.

Sleeper12

Leroy42 wrote:

But that is not feasible from 1 July as what is to stop any person from simply dumping their waste in my bin, as I am being asked to leave the bin outside my property? How can I then be held accountable for anything that is in the bin?

They won't get any in my bins. Mine are bursting at the seams as it is.

Alf Veedersane

foggy_lad wrote: »

Hard plastics? black bags? clothes/shoes? most of the outer plastic packaging on foods is not recyclable but the harder plastic trays are.

The place to recycle clothes isn't recycling bins. There are plenty of places to send clothes and shoes and not just throwing them in recycling bin.

Hard plastics have never really been recyclable in Ireland. They can be sent abroad and possibly be granulated but there aren't any outlets in Ireland for that. Probably ends up going for SRF.

KoolKid

Anyone getting deja vu of Irish Water?

smjm

LynnGrace wrote: »

We are with Citybin. Even if we didn't put the bin out at all in the coming year, and kept it as an ornament , we would still be paying quite a bit more in the standing charge alone, than we paid previously for the year (annual charge plus lifts).

Same here, although with a different collector. My current yearly bill is €107, all-in, on a pay-per-lift basis. My new yearly standing charge will be €156 alone! The added weight will bring this to approx €250 per year. Mad increase! I suspect the same will apply for many 1 or 2 person households, including most pensioner households, who currently pay per lift!

Cherrycola

Polo_Mint wrote: »

Got a mail from AES today for Kildare

From July 1st

Service Charge will be €90 per 6 months

General Waste €0.25 per KG

Recycling €0.00 per KG

Brown Bin €0.15 per KG

Glass €0.00 per KG

In Offaly with AES it's

General Waste €0.26 per kg

Brown/Organic €0.16 per kg

So even within the same company people are getting screwed!
And we lost our brown bin and glass bin when we moved from town to the countryside, and now we will be paying double what we were paying too! From €24 a month to €50 a month, and with 2 less bins!
They also reduced the recycling bin collection from every week to fortnightly, which is free, so now when that gets full anything else has to go in general waste! Such a farce! And nothing to do with the environment!

Cherrycola

Leroy42 wrote: »

Currently we are told by our bin collector to ensure the bins are left out by 6.30 am, and they are then collected by the company.

But that is not feasible from 1 July as what is to stop any person from simply dumping their waste in my bin, as I am being asked to leave the bin outside my property? How can I then be held accountable for anything that is in the bin?

Surely the waste companies will not have to provide some sort of lock system or either to call into each dwelling to collect direct from the customer?

In addition, I can foresee many people asking to see the certificate for weight calibration from the vehicle for each lift, as we know from the NCT the cert can only really been taken as correct at the time of the cert.

Good point. Yes, how do we know our bins are being weighed properly by the bin collectors?
Are the weighing apparatus properly serviced and calibrated?
I'm assuming the bin weight is deducted, can we be sure that happens everytime?! Are we going to have to start weighing our bins before we leave them out? If there's a discrepancy can we complain and get a refund?!
Seems like a pretty easy system to abuse, but not by the customer.

T-Maxx

More.

Based on our collections the past 12 months we'll be paying nearly double.

Yorky

I manage my own household waste - virtually no landfill waste generated, biodegradable waste is composted and recyclable waste is segregated and brought to a bring-centre every two months for an entry fee of €2.

Total annual waste disposal bill is €12

guil

Leroy42 wrote: »

Currently we are told by our bin collector to ensure the bins are left out by 6.30 am, and they are then collected by the company.

But that is not feasible from 1 July as what is to stop any person from simply dumping their waste in my bin, as I am being asked to leave the bin outside my property? How can I then be held accountable for anything that is in the bin?

Surely the waste companies will not have to provide some sort of lock system or either to call into each dwelling to collect direct from the customer?

In addition, I can foresee many people asking to see the certificate for weight calibration from the vehicle for each lift, as we know from the NCT the cert can only really been taken as correct at the time of the cert.

Not a hope in hell the helpers will start going in to gardens to collect the bins. They aren't insured on private property. All our trucks have a sticker in the cab about calibration etc. Every day we lift test bins to ensure they are weighing correctly etc.

Cherrycola wrote: »

Good point. Yes, how do we know our bins are being weighed properly by the bin collectors?
Are the weighing apparatus properly serviced and calibrated?
I'm assuming the bin weight is deducted, can we be sure that happens everytime?! Are we going to have to start weighing our bins before we leave them out? If there's a discrepancy can we complain and get a refund?!
Seems like a pretty easy system to abuse, but not by the customer.

The bin is weighed going up and then again on the way down and the difference is what you will be charged so someone that has a lot of wet stuff stuck in the bottom of the bin won't be getting paying any more. Any empty bin is between 15-17kgs.

Leroy42

guil wrote: »

Not a hope in hell the helpers will start going in to gardens to collect the bins. They aren't insured on private property. All our trucks have a sticker in the cab about calibration etc. Every day we lift test bins to ensure they are weighing correctly etc.

So how do you propose stopping people putting runbish in my bin once it is outside the property. I can hardly be held accountable for stuff that happens outside of my property.

The bin companies will need to come up with some security features. I got an email back from my current provider saying that there is no evidence that this happens so they don't see a problem, but of course there is currently no problem as I pay a fixed yearly charge so its not an issue.

guil

Leroy42 wrote: »

So how do you propose stopping people putting runbish in my bin once it is outside the property. I can hardly be held accountable for stuff that happens outside of my property.

The bin companies will need to come up with some security features. I got an email back from my current provider saying that there is no evidence that this happens so they don't see a problem, but of course there is currently no problem as I pay a fixed yearly charge so its not an issue.

Buy a lock for the bin. They are about €30/40 but the lid won't open until the bin is upside down. Simple solution is only put the bin out when it is full to the neck.

WishUWereHere

guil wrote: »

Buy a lock for the bin. They are about €30/40 but the lid won't open until the bin is upside down. Simple solution is only put the bin out when it is full to the neck.

But still have to pay €2/week ( Thornton's rate ) for the privelidge of having the phantom bin lifted?

No offence Guill, but your bosses want their bread buttered on both sides.

Leroy42

guil wrote: »

Buy a lock for the bin. They are about €30/40 but the lid won't open until the bin is upside down. Simple solution is only put the bin out when it is full to the neck.

Why should I buy the lock? Its the bin companies that want me to leave the bins out, so avoid having to deal with insurance etc (how the postmen etc get to deliver letters I have no idea, or how the gas and ESB guys check meters!) so they need to provide a product that will fulfil that purpose.

It really depends on the legal position of who responsibility it is based on the bins being placed outside the property. They are not technically my bins (as the bin company owns them) and now they are not on my property and based on the my understanding once I place the bins out they effectivley become public property so how can I then be held liable for what is eventually inside them.

Does the weight of evidence to prove that extra stuff is being dumped into a bin lie with me or with the company charging me for the weight?

WishUWereHere

Leroy42 wrote: »

Why should I buy the lock? Its the bin companies that want me to leave the bins out, so avoid having to deal with insurance etc (how the postmen etc get to deliver letters I have no idea, or how the gas and ESB guys check meters!) so they need to provide a product that will fulfil that purpose.

It really depends on the legal position of who responsibility it is based on the bins being placed outside the property. They are not technically my bins (as the bin company owns them) and now they are not on my property and based on the my understanding once I place the bins out they effectivley become public property so how can I then be held liable for what is eventually inside them.

Does the weight of evidence to prove that extra stuff is being dumped into a bin lie with me or with the company charging me for the weight?

Well said Leroy, and I sincerely hope that this AK47 led mission to bleed the people of this country dry backfires on both him and the refuse companies. Hopefully, the bin charges are this 'government's' water charges fiasco.