New Bin Charges - Will you Pay More or Less

tk123

Exactly - and I couldn't care less if my neighbours bin has 100kgs of nappies in it and we're paying the same price lol?! Grand - we cancel each other out!

foggy_lad

tk123 wrote: »

Got this earlier - a bit snarky..

The cost to manage your waste goes way beyond the cost of disposal. There are trucks, bins, salaries, fuel, tax, depots, administration etc. etc. The majority of this is captured by the service charge. There has always been some form of a service charge element in the pricing structure. This is not new. Under pay-by-weight the service charge is separate.

Most people have been on flat rate of approximately €20-€25 for years, how were the companies able to cover the same costs with only a yearly charge and now it will cost them double or more to cover the exact same streets and routes and they will also have less general waste driving their costs down even more!

Have these companies been illegally dumping waste for years? (Obviously A1 waste were actually doing this at their site near Naas)

greasepalm

hmm one of those would be nice,anybody find one let us know

Sleeper12

foggy_lad wrote:

Most people have been on flat rate of approximately €20-€25 for years, how were the companies able to cover the same costs with only a yearly charge and now it will cost them double or more to cover the exact same streets and routes and they will also have less general waste driving their costs down even more!

I've never been on a rate this low. We were paying around 150 flat rate to Dublin City Bins and Greyhound for the first few years but have been paying by weight for close to two years now.

qrx

All this highlights is the sheer amount of people who have been getting away with paying next to nothing for their waste collection.

I've been paying service charge + per collection + per kg for 13 years now.

Once again, government caves in to all the special cases in this country. Im ****ing sick of this socialist bull****. Pay your own taxes and pay for your own **** (literally) everyone has a ****ing sob story.

Sleeper12

qrx wrote:

I've been paying service charge + per collection + per kg for 13 years now.

I have no problem paying and I agree with paying by weight but my bill is doubling to 500 per year inc 150 standing charge. This doesn't make sense to me

qrx

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I have no problem paying and I agree with paying by weight but my bill is doubling to 500 per year inc 150 standing charge. This doesn't make sense to me

What it means is you will be paying for your own waste instead of someone else paying it for you. Its as simple as that. You're not being ripped off, you've simply been getting away with not paying for your waste this whole time.

Alf Veedersane

qrx wrote: »

What it means is you will be paying for your own waste instead of someone else paying it for you. Its as simple as that. You're not being ripped off, you've simply been getting away with not paying for your waste this whole time.

So that'd true for everyone? No matter what level of recycling you have for your house you've been underpaying?

qrx

The real scandal here is that people who have been paying these charges for years like myself are not getting a reduction in our charges. If we are no longer subsidizing others then we should see a reduction in our charges.

The government needs to butt out of this and stop pampering to whoever shouts loudest.

Everyone needs to be on the same system. Charges can obviously vary by company as competition is healthy. But the governments interference in this to ensure that the imbalance on system remains so that the special people can continue to get away with not paying for their own cr@p, its absolutely scandalous.

foggy_lad

qrx wrote: »

What it means is you will be paying for your own waste instead of someone else paying it for you. Its as simple as that. You're not being ripped off, you've simply been getting away with not paying for your waste this whole time.

So if I only have enough to fill 4 bins a year why am I being charged service charge for a weekly collection?

Get rid of all service charges and only have a per kg rate if that is how you want to do it! let the rate be higher for rural areas to cover the extra miles and maybe even have a dial a dump service where a collection is booked for the following waste/recycling day and this will mean that the lorrys don't have to travel along parts of the route where they have no collections booked!

qrx

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

So that'd true for everyone? No matter what level of recycling you have for your house you've been underpaying?

What im saying is the whole country should be charged the same. By weight and per lift is as fair as it gets. Yearly service charge on top is also common practice for all services. If you end up paying more as a result well then what? I should pay ot for you? **** right off

Sleeper12

qrx wrote:

What it means is you will be paying for your own waste instead of someone else paying it for you. Its as simple as that. You're not being ripped off, you've simply been getting away with not paying for your waste this whole time.

I'm afraid you have that wrong. I've been paying by weight and I've been paying for my own rubbish.
Now apart from the 150 standing charge they are charging me double the minimum charge set down by the government.

Your comment above might be apt for people paying 150 or less per year. In my case they have been weighing my rubbish and charging accordingly.

Alf Veedersane

qrx wrote: »

The real scandal here is that people who have been paying these charges for years like myself are not getting a reduction in our charges. If we are no longer subsidizing others then we should see a reduction in our charges.

The government needs to butt out of this and stop pampering to whoever shouts loudest.

Everyone needs to be on the same system. Charges can obviously vary by company as competition is healthy. But the governments interference in this to ensure that the imbalance on system remains so that the special people can continue to get away with not paying for their own cr@p, its absolutely scandalous.

There's no issue with the concept but the large majority are being expected to pay a lot more than they have been but, more importantly, a lot more than is justifiable.

Everyone needs to be accountable for the waste they produce and I agree with the concept of pay by weight. But in its current guise people are being asked to pay excessively.

There's a balance to be found here, that's all.

guil

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

There's no issue with the concept but the large majority are being expected to pay a lot more than they have been but, more importantly, a lot more than is justifiable.

Everyone needs to be accountable for the waste they produce and I agree with the concept of pay by weight. But in its current guise people are being asked to pay excessively.

There's a balance to be found here, that's all.

How much is justifiable?

foggy_lad

guil wrote: »

How much is justifiable?

The market would normally dictate the rates but when all the companies involved suddenly come out with the exact same charges give or take a few cent then we see that they are operating a price fixing cartel and skewing the rates.


People have been paying amounts up to now which the companies are perfectly happy about so why should they suddenly have to pay more? I have been paying €20/month for some time now, why should I suddenly have to pay for a collection service as well as the per kg charge? they are basically charging twice for taking away your waste!

Alf Veedersane

guil wrote: »

How much is justifiable?

Something a little closer to the costs of treating the waste. I don't mind them making a profit but they're taking the p*ss

guil

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Something a little closer to the costs of treating the waste. I don't mind them making a profit but they're taking the p*ss

Do you know the full costs? As I've said before, the last few years have been a race to the bottom with price cuts and it isn't sustainable.

qrx

foggy_lad wrote: »

So if I only have enough to fill 4 bins a year why am I being charged service charge for a weekly collection?

Get rid of all service charges and only have a per kg rate if that is how you want to do it! let the rate be higher for rural areas to cover the extra miles and maybe even have a dial a dump service where a collection is booked for the following waste/recycling day and this will mean that the lorrys don't have to travel along parts of the route where they have no collections booked!

So you expect them to come and collect your waste, especially for you. Get your gear on, warm up the trucks, foggy lad just called he wants hus bins emptied pronto!

Remember this system was brought in by the corporations and run solely by them for a nu.ber of years. The private companies actually reduced prices significantly and in fact they put dun loaghaire rathdown waste collection (residential) out of business, they simply couldn't work out how to match the lower prices and still break even.

Of course id love them to drop the service charge. But I have to say to me its a fair charge.

Alf Veedersane

guil wrote: »

Do you know the full costs? As I've said before, the last few years have been a race to the bottom with price cuts and it isn't sustainable.

Diesel prices have fallen steadily from 1.48/litre to 1.2/litre in the last 3 years. And there's revenue coming in as well, don't forget.

Companies have been increasing the costs in recent years anyway. 30% in the last 3/4 years in my area.

Another jump of 70% on the current fee isn't them suddenly breaking even.

There's a reason most of them are registered offshore and don't have to declare their accounts and it's nothing to do with competition and profits before they went unlimited and moved accounts offshore were healthy enough.

I have no issue with paying for what I produce and paying fairly. I don't expect to pay half nothing. But the charges suggested are not fair.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Rubbish. Pun intended.

Never had a price cut in my area (Fingal). Perry much a yearly increase in fact.

guil wrote: »

Do you know the full costs? As I've said before, the last few years have been a race to the bottom with price cuts and it isn't sustainable.

roddney

New charges from greyhound are astounding.

3.25 per week plus 35c per kg.

Our main problem is nappies which are heavy and can't exactly be disposed of elsewhere.

We put out black bin every 2nd time so once a month. Last bin shows up on a/c as being 80kg. EUR 26 plus 13 for service charge. Badicslly 40 per month or EUR 480 per year.

Very expensive and unfair on already stretched young families.

Leroy42

qrx wrote: »

So you expect them to come and collect your waste, especially for you. Get your gear on, warm up the trucks, foggy lad just called he wants hus bins emptied pronto!

No, we expect there to be a bi-weekly collection service, where the customer does the work of bringing the bins to a set location whereby the waste collector can collect one, many or none depending on the amount left out. If you miss the pay or time then you have to wait until the next scheduled collection, there is never any pronto!

Do you pay a standing charge for the supermarket down the road, what about the Spar around the corner. I mean, you don't expect them to simply sit there waiting for customers do you?

qrx wrote: »

Remember this system was brought in by the corporations and run solely by them for a nu.ber of years. The private companies actually reduced prices significantly and in fact they put dun loaghaire rathdown waste collection (residential) out of business, they simply couldn't work out how to match the lower prices and still break even.

Well according to the waste collectors themselves it appears that they have been running at substantial losses the last few years and hence the 'need' to significantly increase the costs now. So effectively they got involved in below cost selling, to force a competitor out of the market and are now complaining that they can't operate at those prices.

qrx wrote: »

Of course id love them to drop the service charge. But I have to say to me its a fair charge.

on what basis do you think it is fair? Remember, the financial setup is all based on quantity, in that you can't simply look at the cost of collecting one bin, as that of course would be hugely expensive, it is based on the collection of multiple bins within certain sites, or estates. Do you not think it is fairer to have a proper per KG price, so that those that use the bins actually pay the price rather than portionally hitting those with less waste. It is supposed to be a pay per use idea, which as usual has been adjusted to make the best of both worlds, we get a flat rate fixed charge regardless of level of use and then we get hit with an additional per KG charge.

smjm

qrx wrote: »

Of course id love them to drop the service charge. But I have to say to me its a fair charge.

For you, personally, it might be fair. For me, personally, it wouldn't be fair at all. I only had 10 bin collections over the past 12 months. In the next 12 months I expect that to drop to about 6 collections. There's no way I'm paying a yearly service charge to get a bin collected every 2 months, no more than I'd pay a yearly service charge to the local taxi service that I use occasionally.

Ludo

smjm wrote: »

For you, personally, it might be fair. For me, personally, it wouldn't be fair at all. I only had 10 bin collections over the past 12 months. In the next 12 months I expect that to drop to about 6 collections. There's no way I'm paying a yearly service charge to get a bin collected every 2 months, no more than I'd pay a yearly service charge to the local taxi service that I use occasionally.

So then bring your waste directly to the dump yourself and keep receipts to prove it if needed.

smjm

Ludo wrote: »

So then bring your waste directly to the dump yourself and keep receipts to prove it if needed.

I might well do that, though I'm sure if the bin company had a choice between getting a few quid off of me per year or getting nothing, they'd opt for the few quid - especially if it was multiplied by hundreds or thousands of similar households across their area.

For many people in a similar situation though - for instance, an elderly pensioner living on his/her own, with no transport - bringing their waste directly to the dump wouldn't be an option. Do you think they should pay a large yearly charge if they only put out 6 bins a year?

Alf Veedersane

To be fair, they still need to be in a position to provide a service regardless of the level of different people's use of it.

The level of the standing charges are on the high side though and the charge per kilo should be purely on the cost to treat the waste. The per kilo cost to landfill waste is 7.5c. The charge for general waste is north of 35c...

Ludo

smjm wrote: »

I might well do that, though I'm sure if the bin company had a choice between getting a few quid off of me per year or getting nothing, they'd opt for the few quid - especially if it was multiplied by hundreds or thousands of similar households across their area.

For many people in a similar situation though - for instance, an elderly pensioner living on his/her own, with no transport - bringing their waste directly to the dump wouldn't be an option. Do you think they should pay a large yearly charge if they only put out 6 bins a year?

No of course not. I agree with you that a per lift charge if fairer than a flat per week/month service charge. That does nothing to encourage a reduction in waste which is supposed to be the whole point. I was just pointing out that if you use the bin so little, then why bother having it.

smjm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

To be fair, they still need to be in a position to provide a service regardless of the level of different people's use of it.

Indeed, and with a genuinely competitive market, each collector would have similar costs knowing that they can only get a percentage of the customers. Two collectors might only get 50% of the customers each. Three collectors might only get 33% each. But each of the collectors still has to pay for trucks, fuel, depots, staff etc. Given that, I'm not really sure that refuse collection is suited to the private sector. Economies of scale and innovative methods of waste reduction can only be achieved by a monopoly operator. That being the case, I've come to the conclusion that the industry should probably be nationalised.

Alf Veedersane

smjm wrote: »

Indeed, and with a genuinely competitive market, each collector would have similar costs knowing that they can only get a percentage of the customers. Two collectors might only get 50% of the customers each. Three collectors might only get 33% each. But each of the collectors still has to pay for trucks, fuel, depots, staff etc. Given that, I'm not really sure that refuse collection is suited to the private sector. Economies of scale and innovative methods of waste reduction can only be achieved by a monopoly operator. That being the case, I've come to the conclusion that the industry should probably be nationalised.

It could still be operated privately but controlled by the local or regional authority. Perhaps tendering collections by area would be a way of reducing the the apparent disparate nature of collection routes and subsequently costs would have been an option.

Ludo

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Perhaps tendering collections by area would be a way of reducing the the apparent disparate nature of collection routes and subsequently costs would have been an option.

This would also stop 12 rubbish trucks a week coming into estates and causing numerous potholes. Our estate has 4 different companies coming in and they are making ****e of the road surface.