New Bin Charges - Will you Pay More or Less

smjm

Ludo wrote: »

No of course not. I agree with you that a per lift charge if fairer than a flat per week/month service charge. That does nothing to encourage a reduction in waste which is supposed to be the whole point. I was just pointing out that if you use the bin so little, then why bother having it.

Of course a pay per lift charge encourages a reduction in waste. The less waste, the fewer lifts, the lower the charge! It also encourages waste separation as it's less than half the cost for a recycling bin versus a waste bin in my area.

Having bins collected at your door is convenient and, I would say, more environmentally friendly than using your own vehicle to deliver waste half a dozen times a year. But if the cost of the service increase dramatically, then getting rid of the bins does become a more attractive option. Like I say though, many other people only have a small amount of waste, but using the bin is the only realistic option. They'd be hit hardest by a flat yearly charge.

BoJack Horseman

Ludo wrote: »

This would also stop 12 rubbish trucks a week coming into estates and causing numerous potholes. Our estate has 4 different companies coming in and they are making ****e of the road surface.

The local authority tendering from a single provider and paid for via property tax....

So simple..... but will never happen.

smjm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It could still be operated privately but controlled by the local or regional authority. Perhaps tendering collections by area would be a way of reducing the the apparent disparate nature of collection routes and subsequently costs would have been an option.

It could be tendered, but would that be any better than a public system of collection, perhaps connected to the Local Property Tax? There's arguments in favour of both I suppose.

Alf Veedersane

smjm wrote: »

It could be tendered, but would that be any better than a public system of collection, perhaps connected to the Local Property Tax? There's arguments in favour of both I suppose.

It would mean its publically controlled but operated more efficiently. Ideally it would mean companies tender with their proposed pricing structure for customers which should help bring costs down.

I haven't thought about it properly though so maybe I'm missing something

Crimsonforce

ive been doing my calculations this morning. There are currently only two in the house so we should be one of those people who are supposedly paying less. I recycle most of my garden waste, grass, clippings, leaves etc...
we are very hot of recycling and go through all our shopping packaging and recycle most

currently charges are € 216 euros per year for unrestricted weight on all three bins

The new standing charge with city bin is 139 which means i have 77 euros left for the entire year to match last year

so i decided to pull all weights for May 2016 and calculate them by the weight

Total amount was €24.63 euros for May 2016 consisting of the following ( leaving landfill bin out once)

04/05/2016 Organic Bin 13.50 €0.00 (now will be 2.7 euros)
04/05/2016 Recycling Bin 5.00 €0.00 remain the same
11/05/2016 Landfill Bin 24.50 €0.00 (now will be 5.63) euros
18/05/2016 Organic Bin 81.50 €0.00 ( now will be 16.30 euros)
18/05/2016 Recycling Bin 4.00 €0.00 remain the same


if this was indicative of an average month, then our new bill will be € 434.56 euros for the year
a 100 % increase on our waste payments compared to last year.

so i cant see how anyone will pay less

GreatDefector

The government really are clowns

http://www.thejournal.ie/bin-charges-ireland-2836582-Jun2016/

A half measure if even anything. I really hope SF take on this legislation in the seanad

So Greyhound and City Bin (greyhound I dont trust one bit) are not even members of IWMA

It's so vague that I can't even understand what it means for me? No mention of the weekly service charge, whether the freeze is only on weight? so it's a freeze, but the model is still changing? .... Also, I'm with greyhound so again, no idea what's going to happen there

Toto Wolfcastle

I don't have a problem with it at all. It seems pretty clear that you'll just continue to pay the same price as you currently pay. So we pay a service charge (€65 every 6 months I think) and then pay per lift for the black bin. We don't pay any extra for green or brown. Presumably that will stay as it is and we'll also see how much the new system will cost. Am I missing something? It seems fair. Obviously it's up to Greyhound etc to agree to it.

mansize

I was due to pay less, but Oxigen haven't released their prices- they said if they are frozen I would be paying the same as before...

Where's the per kilo bit tho? I thought that had to come in???

GreatDefector

Toto Wolfcastle wrote: »

I don't have a problem with it at all. It seems pretty clear that you'll just continue to pay the same price as you currently pay. So we pay a service charge (€65 every 6 months I think) and then pay per lift for the black bin. We don't pay any extra for green or brown. Presumably that will stay as it is and we'll also see how much the new system will cost. Am I missing something? It seems fair. Obviously it's up to Greyhound etc to agree to it.

Pay by weight is still coming in. So pay by lift is then no more.... That's what has me confused. No idea about the service charge. it's not clear

To me, it looks cleverly worded/disguised as a price freeze for 1st 12 months from today's per kilo charges

foggy_lad

guil wrote: »

Do you know the full costs? As I've said before, the last few years have been a race to the bottom with price cuts and it isn't sustainable.

If companies are operating below cost than that is their problem but the issue there is that none of the operators are significantly cheaper so are they all operating at a loss??

qrx wrote: »

So you expect them to come and collect your waste, especially for you. Get your gear on, warm up the trucks, foggy lad just called he wants hus bins emptied pronto!

On the next Scheduled Collection Day, Yes.

Remember this system was brought in by the corporations and run solely by them for a nu.ber of years. The private companies actually reduced prices significantly and in fact they put dun loaghaire rathdown waste collection (residential) out of business, they simply couldn't work out how to match the lower prices and still break even.

Of course id love them to drop the service charge. But I have to say to me its a fair charge.

It would be fair if it was also used as a credit against your per kg charges.

smjm

GreatDefector wrote: »

Pay by weight is still coming in. So pay by lift is then no more.... That's what has me confused. No idea about the service charge. it's not clear

To me, it looks cleverly worded/disguised as a price freeze for 1st 12 months from today's per kilo charges

Yep, it's the service charge that they're being vague about. If they still allow an increased service charge, it alone would be €156 for me, versus my current €107 all-in per year.

Alf Veedersane

The charge remains the same as it has been with the pay-by-weight being kicked down the road for a year. Bills will be issued that will show what you pay and what you will pay when the system comes into effect to allow for a cost comparison.

But this is essentially what was done over a year ago when they deferred the introduction of pay-by-weight from by a year from July 2015 with exactly the same soundbites about allowing customers to get used to the system and being shown the supposed benefit of the transition to pay by weight.

(It's the Indo but it has the relevant info and quotes)

foggy_lad

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The charge remains the same as it has been with the pay-by-weight being kicked down the road for a year. Bills will be issued that will show what you pay and what you will pay when the system comes into effect to allow for a cost comparison.

But this is essentially what was done over a year ago when they deferred the introduction of pay-by-weight from by a year from July 2015 with exactly the same soundbites about allowing customers to get used to the system and being shown the supposed benefit of the transition to pay by weight.

(It's the Indo but it has the relevant info and quotes)

Basically Coveney knows just like AK47 knew last year that this pig will never fly, it should never have been implemented or brought in without proper leglislation to protect the end users from the companies, price capping is needed and a regulator is also needed along with the proper checks and balances to make sure the weights are accurate.

All they are doing is kicking it down the road so they can try again next year when they should be getting rid and starting again from scratch and hopefully they will pay some better consultants and advisors and actually get the job done right.

therecklessone

Most of my waste goes in the Green/Brown bins, I had six lifts of the black bin in the last year but 2 of those were due to waste from some renovations I had done during the year.

Based on last year's usage, my charges will go up by approx 25% based on Panda's mooted charges in North County Dublin. All of that increase is down to the charges for brown waste, I'd save about 3e on my black bins under the new structure.

With careful management of when I put the bin out I could probably save about 10% by putting the brown waste directly into my black bin :rolleyes::rolleyes:

mayo.mick

I'm with Mac Graths here in Mayo for the paste 3 years. €176 every 6 months for waste and recycling €352 every year. No compost bin (yet).

New charges;

176 Euro charge for six months. Of that 110 Euro is service charge. 66 Euro is waste charge.
It is then priced at 22 cent per KG. So they give you an allowance of 300 kg.
So that is a total of 300 *22 = 66
If you exceed this you will then get invoiced at the end of the year.

I used to be with Wers for years, had to have bins out on Sunday night for collection at 5.30/6 Monday morning. Started having problems with people dumping in my bins on a Sunday night late. Only noticed when waste being dumped in recycling bin and it was not being emptied. Asked, but they refused to change collection time. Changed to MacGraths as they collect on a Tuesday at 11am.

guil

I see on the news that it has been postponed for another year with operators getting a reduction in landfill levies. Thankfully my job will be easier for another year lol.

GreatDefector

guil wrote: »

I see on the news that it has been postponed for another year with operators getting a reduction in landfill levies. Thankfully my job will be easier for another year lol.

I don't believe it's being postponed at all. It's coming in still with charges to be magically the same as what you paid before.

guil

GreatDefector wrote: »

I don't believe it's being postponed at all. It's coming in still with charges to be magically the same as what you paid before.

Coveney was on the news saying the waste operators have to agreed to postpone them.

WishUWereHere

guil wrote: »

Low cost and waste collection don't really go hand in hand. A new truck is anything upto 250k. The diesel bill is huge as well with all the stopping and starting and constant revving for the PTO.

I'm only 30 so only know private waste collectors and back in 08 when I started it was about €400 per year for bins. That was refuse, recycling and glass in some places. Then the brown came in around 09/10 and prices were already in a race to the bottom.

With all due respects Guil, if it is such a low profit margin industry, why are there over 60 companies in Ireland in the business?

I live in an estate in Newbridge. There is a green in front of me, and surrounding this green are 32 houses, served by 4 different companies, Your company being one of them. One company from Carlow serves one out of the 32 houses and he comes from Carlow. So, how can it NOT be a profit making industry?

Also, I used to be with AES, and every single year when we ( the Residents Association ) held our AGM, one of the topics to be talked about after the AGM was the service providers and what they are charging for the coming year. I was sick and tired of hearing people ( a lot mind ) who had different quotes from AES, and me personally 'fighting' with them about their rates. I eventually got sick and tired of bickering over a phone or via email that I left them.

So please don't come along and tell me it's a loss making industry - doesn't wash with me for one minute.

WishUWereHere

guil wrote: »

Do you know the full costs? As I've said before, the last few years have been a race to the bottom with price cuts and it isn't sustainable.

Again I hate to remind You Guil, the company You work for are the experts in dropping their prices. I have been told myslef at my annual argee-bargee with your accounts department that 'we will match so&so's prices, we don't want to lose your business'.

These companiews have dug their own hole, now they must swim in it or get lost.

foggy_lad

So Yet again our Government read their statistics assways, they told us that 86% would pay less but looking at the results now it shows that 86% feel they will pay more!

As for companies having huge costs, they usually offer residents associations massive reductions if most houses in an estate sign up to their service for a year, Thorntons and AES have been doing this all over Dublin and Kildare for a number of years. They are still making huge profits as they are not in the business of collecting rubbish at a loss!

WishUWereHere

foggy_lad wrote: »

Basically Coveney knows just like AK47 knew last year that this pig will never fly, it should never have been implemented or brought in without proper leglislation to protect the end users from the companies, price capping is needed and a regulator is also needed along with the proper checks and balances to make sure the weights are accurate.

All they are doing is kicking it down the road so they can try again next year when they should be getting rid and starting again from scratch and hopefully they will pay some better consultants and advisors and actually get the job done right.

Let's just hope this shower fall before this time next year, and we can get rid of the likes of AK47 etc.

WishUWereHere

guil wrote: »

I see on the news that it has been postponed for another year with operators getting a reduction in landfill levies. Thankfully my job will be easier for another year lol.

So, 12 months down the 'Long & Winding' Road what happens then? Back to square 1? Meantime, I read the government are going to offer us the public the option of reverting to the pay-by-weight in January? Can ANYONE PLEASE explain who in their right mind would want to switch to a system where they will pay MORE money for the same service?

Voting these clowns back into power means we REALLY DO deserve all the sh1t they dish out to us.

Apologies Guil, I kind of sabotaged Your message, no offence meant.

foggy_lad

I think we need a €100 conservation grant to reward people for throwing less rubbish away.

LynnGrace

Am still unclear on this. Are the standing charges/ annual charges frozen?

foggy_lad

LynnGrace wrote: »

Am still unclear on this. Are the standing charges/ annual charges frozen?

THe new rates are not being brought in but Panda and Greyhound have already told some customers that all new customers are being put onto the new pay by weight rates.

Coveney seems to have pulled a sneaky dirty trick here if new customers are being forced to accept the new rates.

LynnGrace

Thanks foggy.

We are already on pay by weight, with Citybin, so the huge increase for us was the standing charge/ annual charge which was more than doubling. I'm still a bit concerned that the bin companies are talking about freezing the rates per kg lift, but are glossing over the annual / standing charge increase, which is our main concern.

foggy_lad

LynnGrace wrote: »

Thanks foggy.

We are already on pay by weight, with Citybin, so the huge increase for us was the standing charge/ annual charge which was more than doubling. I'm still a bit concerned that the bin companies are talking about freezing the rates per kg lift, but are glossing over the annual / standing charge increase, which is our main concern.

This type of thing becomes a real problem when we have a minister who makes assumptions and does not have a bulls notion of how the system operates around the country.

First he assumed that the companies would be charging around the 11 cent per kg rate but most are triple that rate, then he dropped the ball completely regarding service charges and the gouging that is going on there!

I believe a deal has been struck either recently or further back that the companies would be free to charge €500 per year for most households and Coveney, Anthrax Kelly and a host of other environmentalists have played their part to ensure it.

TMM12

Just got my email from AES to tell me prices are frozen from 1st July. They will be providing a comparison of normal bill and pay-by-weight to help people get used to it. Customers can also choose to sign up for pay-by-weight at any point from 1st of July.

Ludo

TMM12 wrote: »

Just got my email from AES to tell me prices are frozen from 1st July. They will be providing a comparison of normal bill and pay-by-weight to help people get used to it. Customers can also choose to sign up for pay-by-weight at any point from 1st of July.

A highly sensible solution in fairness.