2016-17 UEFA Champions League

The Talking Bread

The Golden Miller wrote: »

It's easy to rationalise bets after the result. There were very few calling Monaco as certs to win the first leg etc, lest not being contenders to win it outright. If you want to scrawl through the thread then be my guest. I don't really care about the bets, my only point was that it's mildly amusing seeing as several posters, including yourself, have regularly slated me for knowing nothing about football

Monaco shouldn't have been "certs" to win the first leg. In fact Dortmund were unlucky in the end not to get a draw. Yes, there was plenty of logic to say Monaco could win this tie but your hindsight "they were certs to win" shows you naivety in your betting logic. There was strong logic to bet for Monaco over 2 legs, we have all witnessed what they have done this season, but certs in the first leg............meh.

No matter how you say it, Monaco winning in Germany wasn't a cert, but a good bet considering the odds. If you call that rationalising, you are a bookies dream.
I would have bet for Monaco to go through over the 2 legs but not on a "cert" rationalisation.

Dortmund were also very psychologically impaired going into that first leg.


I have a mate on one of my whassap groups who continuosly throws up his betting slips post winning. He likes to think he is convincing us he is the bees knees as a gambler so we asked him to place every betting slip he made during Cheltenham pre race! Hilarious results!



Also blaming the fact you were under the influence of alcohol when you made the Ronaldo bet is nonsense. The bet was made on the logic and hatred you have continuously had for years, it wasn't a sudden impulsive decision!

Fair play to you about your pre tournament post but for that one, I am sure there are many a plenty predictions that you got wrong, by evidence of your Ronaldo bet and your claim that Monaco were certs in the first leg!

irishman86

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I never said you didn't say that they wouldn't progress. You must of missed the part where I was speaking in general terms with the word "posterS". Getting a bit petty now, I've called Ronaldo a world class goal scorer who wouldn't be up on a pedastal with the Messi's, Maradona's, Cruyff's and Zidane's of this world, but alongside the other great goal scorers like Gerd Muller etc i.e huge shortcomings in his game outside of goal scoring, which isn't the case with the other top top players. That's a fair and honest opinion, which many other people agree with, the Madrid fans and president have also been on his back all season due to these shortcomings. If that equates to me knowing nothing about football in the eye's of someone who can't differentiate between playmaking and assist stats, then so be it

You said and I quote he doesnt score 2 goals against great teams and fills his boots with cannon fodder teams. He then proceeded to score 5 against Bayern Munich. You said after the first leg he wouldnt score again, he then proceeded to score a hattrick. A fair opinion :pac: its blind bias but as I said I dont think you know a lot about football. No you said I slagged you for your predications which isnt accurate, everything Ive slagged you over has been proven correct. But on Friday you get your chance to shut us all up when the semis are drawn

The Talking Bread

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Juve haven't concedes in open play in CL this season!!

Harambe wrote: »

Wow that's seriously impressive.

It's not as if they have had muck opponents either:

Sevilla, Lyon, D. Zagreb, Porto and Madrid. In hindsight Sevilla weren't as impressive as we may have expected but surely over 10 games not to concede a goal in open play, even just a consolation, is a record?

The Golden Miller

irishman86 wrote: »

You said and I quote he doesnt score 2 goals against great teams and fills his boots with cannon fodder teams. He then proceeded to score 5 against Bayern Munich. You said after the first leg he wouldnt score again, he then proceeded to score a hattrick. A fair opinion :pac: its blind bias but as I said I dont think you know a lot about football. No you said I slagged you for your predications which isnt accurate, everything Ive slagged you over has been proven correct. But on Friday you get your chance to shut us all up when the semis are drawn

No that's not what I said if you want to read through the posts again, I said it rarely happens, particularly at the business end of the Champions League which I stand by. In both legs he got his second against 10 men in a wide open defence who were pushing forward to chase the game, so we'll see how he does if they draw Juve and Atleti in particular. You didn't really respond to the content of my last post, just went on a bit of a pedantic tangent, back tracking from claiming I know nothing about football to not a lot. I think the problem with you is you seem to take anonymous opinions to heart, and spend your time dogmatically trying to attack the poster as opposed to the post

The Golden Miller

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Monaco shouldn't have been "certs" to win the first leg. In fact Dortmund were unlucky in the end not to get a draw. Yes, there was plenty of logic to say Monaco could win this tie but your hindsight "they were certs to win" shows you naivety in your betting logic. There was strong logic to bet for Monaco over 2 legs, we have all witnessed what they have done this season, but certs in the first leg............meh.

No matter how you say it, Monaco winning in Germany wasn't a cert, but a good bet considering the odds. If you call that rationalising, you are a bookies dream.
I would have bet for Monaco to go through over the 2 legs but not on a "cert" rationalisation.

Dortmund were also very psychologically impaired going into that first leg.


I have a mate on one of my whassap groups who continuosly throws up his betting slips post winning. He likes to think he is convincing us he is the bees knees as a gambler so we asked him to place every betting slip he made during Cheltenham pre race! Hilarious results!



Also blaming the fact you were under the influence of alcohol when you made the Ronaldo bet is nonsense. The bet was made on the logic and hatred you have continuously had for years, it wasn't a sudden impulsive decision!

Fair play to you about your pre tournament post but for that one, I am sure there are many a plenty predictions that you got wrong, by evidence of your Ronaldo bet and your claim that Monaco were certs in the first leg!

I'm aware they weren't bookies certs, but were certs in my opinion and I stated as much. We've been over this before. I'll be the first to admit I lose regularly, who doesn't if you're going through 10-15 bets a day, but I'd certainly win more than I lose. Most people do betting on football if they are going with singles and doubles, it's hard not to if you're patient, particularly if you're betting in play and going through the half time stats to see who is on top. Horses are a totally different ball game and I'd never bet on them. I'll concede the Ronaldo bet was rubbish, and whether you believe it or not I was drinking and keen to prove a point which backfired spectacularly. A tighter defense will sort him out mind you, and I'll happily take that bet again

TripleAce

chopperbyrne wrote: »

I wouldn't be happy if Juve won. They are a scummy club, and have been for generations. As evident by them being implicit in match fixing in Italy.

lol these are the typical excuses losers such as Inter and Napoli supporters have been coming up for years to justify their failures. Think about not ending up 20 points behind every single year rather than crying like little girls would probably help. But as usual winners find a way, losers find an excuse.

The Golden Miller

TripleAce wrote: »

lol these are the typical excuses losers such as Inter and Napoli supporters have been coming up for years to justify their failures. Think about not ending up 20 points behind every single year rather than crying like little girls would probably help. But as usual winners find a way, losers find an excuse.

Inter are terrible for it and there's a bit of a nasty seige mentaility in their ranks. Milan fans are far better sports from my experience

irishman86

The Golden Miller wrote: »

No that's not what I said if you want to read through the posts again, I said it rarely happens, particularly at the business end of the Champions League which I stand by. In both legs he got his second against 10 men in a wide open defense who were pushing forward to chase the game, so we'll see how he does if they draw Juve and Atleti in particular. You didn't really respond to the content of my last post, just went on a bit of a pedantic tangent, back tracking from claiming I know nothing about football to not a lot. I think the problem with you is you seem to take anonymous opinions to heart, and spend your time dogmatically trying to attack the poster as opposed to the post

I dont respond as Ive been warned its not worth it, Ive made it very clear from what Ive read that you dont know a lot about football. You are pushing stuff you get right down peoples throats while ignoring how wrong you were about Ronaldo even saying it was drunk TGM. Well Ronaldo has scored against top teams before Im sure he will have no fear of Atletico a team he holds the record for scoring between two teams :pac:. Do you actually know anything buddy
Just a quick edit. I think you know nothing about football, sorry for the confusion, I most certainly wasnt back tracking

TripleAce

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Inter are terrible for it and there's a bit of a nasty seige mentaility in their ranks. Milan fans are far better sports from my experience

yep, totally. They have a winning mentality and think about winning trophies (not gonna happen for a while ), whereas Inter is a total fluke who robbed a CL after 50 years of nothingness and all they do is talk about the "triplete" every time they open their mouth. Pathetic.

The Golden Miller

irishman86 wrote: »

I dont respond as Ive been warned its not worth it, Ive made it very clear from what Ive read that you dont know a lot about football. You are pushing stuff you get right down peoples throats while ignoring how wrong you were about Ronaldo even saying it was drunk TGM. Well Ronaldo has scored against top teams before Im sure he will have no fear of Atletico a team he holds the record for scoring between two teams :pac:. Do you actually know anything buddy
Just a quick edit. I think you know nothing about football, sorry for the confusion, I most certainly wasnt back tracking

I lost the bet, I've no qualms with saying I got it wrong. It doesn't take away from the actual point I was making though, Ronaldo rarely (again, I never said he hadn't done it before) scores more than a single goal against the top teams at the business end of the Champions League and I stand by that. The fact he's done it 3 times against Bayern in 5 years and no one else I can think of, says it all. A Bayern team in transition in Guardiola's first year, who were atrocious at the back and got ripped apart. Everyone was getting in on the act. They could have had another 5 over that tie. Then he tagged on his second against 10 men twice, in another two game's where Bayern's defense was left hopelessly exposed and had to chase the game. Now this "2 goals" argument was made in relation to a larger point, Ronaldo contributes little else outside of goal scoring. His only criteria for being the best ever in many people's opinion is his stats and goal scoring, I was pointing out that it's decidedly average against the top teams. Not all the great from one of the best ever, is it?

He may hold the record against Atletico since he joined La Liga, but how is his record against them since Simone took over, particularly in the Champions League. One goal in 4 games, a last minute peno in a game already won. 360 minutes of effectively watching from the sidelines. He's scored 3 or 4 against them in a cup where they fielded weakened teams, and scored on 3 occasions in the league in the last 4 years I think. 5 or 6 games there where he contributed nothing. Atletico raise their game for the Champions League, and Ronaldo has been continually found wanting again them

inforfun

The Talking Bread wrote: »

It's not as if they have had muck opponents either:

Sevilla, Lyon, D. Zagreb, Porto and Madrid. In hindsight Sevilla weren't as impressive as we may have expected but surely over 10 games not to concede a goal in open play, even just a consolation, is a record?

Hi, Mr Pedantic here.

Pareja scored from open play against Juve for Sevilla.
They actually could have hurt them that night but all went tits up after Sevilla's red card.

The Talking Bread

The Golden Miller wrote: »

No that's not what I said if you want to read through the posts again, I said it rarely happens, particularly at the business end of the Champions League which I stand by. In both legs he got his second against 10 men in a wide open defense who were pushing forward to chase the game, so we'll see how he does if they draw Juve and Atleti in particular. You didn't really respond to the content of my last post, just went on a bit of a pedantic tangent, back tracking from claiming I know nothing about football to not a lot. I think the problem with you is you seem to take anonymous opinions to heart, and spend your time dogmatically trying to attack the poster as opposed to the post

Ok, tell me the many forwards who have better record than him at the business end. Obviously teams like Real' respective forwards will have a more likely chance to score a goal given the frequency within which they appear at these stages but I don't get the logic that he is just a passenger for the most part once he gets to the latter stages. It is Nonsense. I am sure he has a considerable assist record also, I would hazard a guess in the top 5 of players that have featured in CL during their career.

Here is all his goals in Champions League.



Cristiano Ronaldo's goal by goal record
UEFA Champions League (group stage to final)

(goals 1-15 for Man Utd; 16 onwards for Real Madrid)

Goal Opponent Date Round Opponent Date Round

1 Roma (h), 7-1 10/04/07 Quarter-final second leg
2 Roma (h), 7-1 10/04/07 Quarter-final second leg
3 Milan (h), 3-2 24/04/07 Semi-final first leg
4 Sporting (a), 19/09/07 Group stage
5 Dynamo Kyiv , 23/10/07 Group stage
6 Dynamo Kyiv (a), 23/10/07 Group stage
7 Dynamo Kyiv (h), 07/11/07 Group stage
8 Sporting CP 27/11/07 Group stage
9 Lyon (h), 04/03/08 Round of 16 second leg
10 Roma (a), 01/04/08 Quarter-final first leg
11 Chelsea (n), 21/05/08 Final
12 Internazionale 11/03/09 Round of 16 second leg
13 Porto (a), 1-0 15/04/09 Quarter-final second leg
14 Arsenal (a), 05/05/09 Semi-final second leg
15 Arsenal (a), 3-1 05/05/09 Semi-final second leg
16 Zürich (a), 5-2 15/09/09 Group stage
17 Zürich (a), 15/09/09 Group stage
18 Marseille (h), 30/09/09 Group stage
19 Marseille (h), 30/09/09 Group stage
20 Marseille (a), 08/12/09 Group stage
21 Marseille (a), 08/12/09 Group stage
22 Lyon (h), 1-1 10/03/10 Round of 16 second leg
23 Milan (h), 2-0 19/10/10 Group stage
24 Ajax (a), 4-0 23/11/10 Group stage
25 Ajax (a), 4-0 23/11/10 Group stage
26 uxerre (h), 4-0 08/12/10 Group stage
27 Tottenham (h), 05/04/11 Quarter-final first leg
28 Tottenham (a), 13/04/11 Quarter-final second leg
29 Ajax (h), 3-0 27/09/11 Group stage
30 Lyon (a), 2-0 02/11/11 Group stage
31 Lyon (a), 2-0 02/11/11 Group stage
32 CSKA Moskva (a), 21/02/12 Round of 16 first leg
33 CSKA Moskva (h), 14/03/12 Round of 16 second leg
34 CSKA Moskva 14/03/12 Round of 16 second leg
35 APOEL (h), 5-2 04/04/12 Quarter-final second leg
36 APOEL (h), 5-2 04/04/12 Quarter-final second leg
37 Bayern (h), 2-1 25/04/12 Semi-final second leg
38 Bayern (h), 2-1 25/04/12 Semi-final second leg
39 Man City (h), 18/09/12 Group stage
40 Ajax (a), 4-1 03/10/12 Group stage
41 Ajax (a), 4-1 03/10/12 Group stage
42 Ajax (a), 4-1 03/10/12 Group stage
43 Dortmund (a), 24/10/12 Group stage
44 Ajax (h), 4-1 04/12/12 Group stage
45 Man United (h), 13/02/13 Round of 16 first leg
46 Man United (a), 05/03/13 Round of 16 second leg
47 Galatasaray (h), 03/04/13 Quarter-final first leg
48 Galatasaray (a), 09/04/13 Quarter-final second leg
49 Galatasaray (a), 09/04/13 Quarter-final second leg
50 Dortmund (a), 24/04/13 Semi-final first leg
51 Galatasaray (a), 17/09/13 Group stage
52 Galatasaray (a), 17/09/13 Group stage
53 Galatasaray (a), 17/09/13 Group stage
54 København (h), 02/10/13 Group stage
55 København (h), 02/10/13 Group stage
56 Juventus (h), 23/10/13 Group stage
57 Juventus (h), 23/10/13 Group stage
58 Juventus (a), 05/11/13 Group stage
59 København (a), 10/12/13 Group stage
60 Schalke (a), 26/02/14 Round of 16 first leg
61 Schalke (a), 26/02/14 Round of 16 first leg
62 Schalke (h), 18/03/14 Round of 16 second leg
63 Schalke (h), 18/03/14 Round of 16 second leg
64 Dortmund (h), 02/04/14 Quarter-final first leg
65 Bayern (a), 29/04/14 Semi-final second leg
66 Bayern (a), 29/04/14 Semi-final second leg
67 Atlético (n), 25/05/14 Final
68 Basel (h), 5-1 16/09/14 Group stage
69 Ludogorets (a), 01/10/14 Group stage
70 Liverpool (a), 22/10/14 Group stage
71 Basel (a), 26/11/14 Group stage
72 Ludogorets (h), 09/12/14 Group stage
73 Schalke (a), 18/02/15 Round of 16 first leg
74 Schalke (h), 10/03/15 Round of 16 second leg
75 Schalke (h), 10/03/15 Round of 16 second leg
76 Juventus (a), 05/05/15 Semi-final first leg
77 Juventus (h), 13/05/15 Semi-final second leg
78 Shakhtar (h), 15/09/15 Group stage
79 Shakhtar (h), 15/09/15 Group stage
80 Shakhtar (h), 15/09/15 Group stage
81 Malmö (a), 30/09/15 Group stage
82 Malmö (a), 30/09/15 Group stage
83 Shakhtar (a), 25/11/15 Group stage
85 Malmö (h), 08/12/15 Group stage
86 Malmö (h), 08/12/15 Group stage
87 Malmö (h), 08/12/15 Group stage
88 Malmö (h), 08/12/15 Group stage
89 Roma (a), 17/02/16 Round of 16 first leg
90 Roma (h), 08/03/16 Round of 16 second leg
91 Wolfsburg (h), 12/04/16 Quarter-final second leg
92 Wolfsburg (h), 12/04/16 Quarter-final second leg
93 Wolfsburg (h), 12/04/16 Quarter-final second leg
94 Sporting CP (h), 14/09/16 Group stage
95 Dortmund (a), 27/09/16 Group stage
96 Bayern (a), 12/04/17 Quarter-final first leg
97 Bayern (a), 12/04/17 Quarter-final first leg
98 Bayern (h), 18/04/17 Quarter-final second leg
99 Bayern (h), 18/04/17 Quarter-final second leg
100 Bayern (h), 18/04/17 Quarter-final second leg

The Talking Bread

inforfun wrote: »

Hi, Mr Pedantic here.

Pareja scored from open play against Juve for Sevilla.
They actually could have hurt them that night but all went tits up after Sevilla's red card.

I saw the stat on Sky News! Yeah, a lovely finish also, just looked at youtube!

Shanotheslayer

The Golden Miller wrote: »

You can indeed, penalties excluded as was the conditions the original bet was taken on

Penalty as in if it goes to Penos? Or if he scores a Penalty?

Either way i'll take the €20. Assuming free kicks count?

Giggsy11

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I lost the bet, I've no qualms with saying I got it wrong. It doesn't take away from the actual point I was making though, Ronaldo rarely (again, I never said he hadn't done it before) scores more than a single goal against the top teams at the business end of the Champions League and I stand by that. The fact he's done it 3 times against Bayern in 5 years and no one else I can think of, says it all. A Bayern team in transition in Guardiola's first year, who were atrocious at the back and got ripped apart. Everyone was getting in on the act. They could have had another 5 over that tie. Then he tagged on his second against 10 men twice, in another two game's where Bayern's defense was left hopelessly exposed and had to chase the game. Now this "2 goals" argument was made in relation to a larger point, Ronaldo contributes little else outside of goal scoring. His only criteria for being the best ever in many people's opinion is his stats and goal scoring, I was pointing out that it's decidedly average against the top teams. Not all the great from one of the best ever, is it?

He may hold the record against Atletico since he joined La Liga, but how is his record against them since Simone took over, particularly in the Champions League. One goal in 4 games, a last minute peno in a game already won. 360 minutes of effectively watching from the sidelines. He's scored 3 or 4 against them in a cup where they fielded weakened teams, and scored on 3 occasions in the league in the last 4 years I think. 5 or 6 games there where he contributed nothing. Atletico raise their game for the Champions League, and Ronaldo has been continually found wanting again them

Showing your knowledge on the game again, which isn't a lot. Your excuses are pathetic as usual.

https://twitter.com/2010MisterChip/status/854443390661996544?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redcafe.net%2Fthreads%2Fcristiano-ronaldo-performances-wums-will-be-thread-banned.400527%2Fpage-166

More goals between quarters, semi-finals and finals of European Cup: CRISTIANO RONALDO and Di Stefano [32] [17] [16] Messi [15] Eusebio Puskas

The Golden Miller

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Ok, tell me the many forwards who have better record than him at the business end. Obviously teams like Real' respective forwards will have a more likely chance to score a goal given the frequency within which they appear at these stages but I don't get the logic that he is just a passenger for the most part once he gets to the latter stages. It is Nonsense. I am sure he has a considerable assist record also, I would hazard a guess in the top 5 of players that have featured in CL during their career.

Here is all his goals in Champions League.



Cristiano Ronaldo's goal by goal record
UEFA Champions League (group stage to final)

(goals 1-15 for Man Utd; 16 onwards for Real Madrid)

Goal Opponent Date Round Opponent Date Round

1 Roma (h), 7-1 10/04/07 Quarter-final second leg
2 Roma (h), 7-1 10/04/07 Quarter-final second leg
3 Milan (h), 3-2 24/04/07 Semi-final first leg
4 Sporting (a), 19/09/07 Group stage
5 Dynamo Kyiv , 23/10/07 Group stage
6 Dynamo Kyiv (a), 23/10/07 Group stage
7 Dynamo Kyiv (h), 07/11/07 Group stage
8 Sporting CP 27/11/07 Group stage
9 Lyon (h), 04/03/08 Round of 16 second leg
10 Roma (a), 01/04/08 Quarter-final first leg
11 Chelsea (n), 21/05/08 Final
12 Internazionale 11/03/09 Round of 16 second leg
13 Porto (a), 1-0 15/04/09 Quarter-final second leg
14 Arsenal (a), 05/05/09 Semi-final second leg
15 Arsenal (a), 3-1 05/05/09 Semi-final second leg
16 Zürich (a), 5-2 15/09/09 Group stage
17 Zürich (a), 15/09/09 Group stage
18 Marseille (h), 30/09/09 Group stage
19 Marseille (h), 30/09/09 Group stage
20 Marseille (a), 08/12/09 Group stage
21 Marseille (a), 08/12/09 Group stage
22 Lyon (h), 1-1 10/03/10 Round of 16 second leg
23 Milan (h), 2-0 19/10/10 Group stage
24 Ajax (a), 4-0 23/11/10 Group stage
25 Ajax (a), 4-0 23/11/10 Group stage
26 uxerre (h), 4-0 08/12/10 Group stage
27 Tottenham (h), 05/04/11 Quarter-final first leg
28 Tottenham (a), 13/04/11 Quarter-final second leg
29 Ajax (h), 3-0 27/09/11 Group stage
30 Lyon (a), 2-0 02/11/11 Group stage
31 Lyon (a), 2-0 02/11/11 Group stage
32 CSKA Moskva (a), 21/02/12 Round of 16 first leg
33 CSKA Moskva (h), 14/03/12 Round of 16 second leg
34 CSKA Moskva 14/03/12 Round of 16 second leg
35 APOEL (h), 5-2 04/04/12 Quarter-final second leg
36 APOEL (h), 5-2 04/04/12 Quarter-final second leg
37 Bayern (h), 2-1 25/04/12 Semi-final second leg
38 Bayern (h), 2-1 25/04/12 Semi-final second leg
39 Man City (h), 18/09/12 Group stage
40 Ajax (a), 4-1 03/10/12 Group stage
41 Ajax (a), 4-1 03/10/12 Group stage
42 Ajax (a), 4-1 03/10/12 Group stage
43 Dortmund (a), 24/10/12 Group stage
44 Ajax (h), 4-1 04/12/12 Group stage
45 Man United (h), 13/02/13 Round of 16 first leg
46 Man United (a), 05/03/13 Round of 16 second leg
47 Galatasaray (h), 03/04/13 Quarter-final first leg
48 Galatasaray (a), 09/04/13 Quarter-final second leg
49 Galatasaray (a), 09/04/13 Quarter-final second leg
50 Dortmund (a), 24/04/13 Semi-final first leg
51 Galatasaray (a), 17/09/13 Group stage
52 Galatasaray (a), 17/09/13 Group stage
53 Galatasaray (a), 17/09/13 Group stage
54 København (h), 02/10/13 Group stage
55 København (h), 02/10/13 Group stage
56 Juventus (h), 23/10/13 Group stage
57 Juventus (h), 23/10/13 Group stage
58 Juventus (a), 05/11/13 Group stage
59 København (a), 10/12/13 Group stage
60 Schalke (a), 26/02/14 Round of 16 first leg
61 Schalke (a), 26/02/14 Round of 16 first leg
62 Schalke (h), 18/03/14 Round of 16 second leg
63 Schalke (h), 18/03/14 Round of 16 second leg
64 Dortmund (h), 02/04/14 Quarter-final first leg
65 Bayern (a), 29/04/14 Semi-final second leg
66 Bayern (a), 29/04/14 Semi-final second leg
67 Atlético (n), 25/05/14 Final
68 Basel (h), 5-1 16/09/14 Group stage
69 Ludogorets (a), 01/10/14 Group stage
70 Liverpool (a), 22/10/14 Group stage
71 Basel (a), 26/11/14 Group stage
72 Ludogorets (h), 09/12/14 Group stage
73 Schalke (a), 18/02/15 Round of 16 first leg
74 Schalke (h), 10/03/15 Round of 16 second leg
75 Schalke (h), 10/03/15 Round of 16 second leg
76 Juventus (a), 05/05/15 Semi-final first leg
77 Juventus (h), 13/05/15 Semi-final second leg
78 Shakhtar (h), 15/09/15 Group stage
79 Shakhtar (h), 15/09/15 Group stage
80 Shakhtar (h), 15/09/15 Group stage
81 Malmö (a), 30/09/15 Group stage
82 Malmö (a), 30/09/15 Group stage
83 Shakhtar (a), 25/11/15 Group stage
85 Malmö (h), 08/12/15 Group stage
86 Malmö (h), 08/12/15 Group stage
87 Malmö (h), 08/12/15 Group stage
88 Malmö (h), 08/12/15 Group stage
89 Roma (a), 17/02/16 Round of 16 first leg
90 Roma (h), 08/03/16 Round of 16 second leg
91 Wolfsburg (h), 12/04/16 Quarter-final second leg
92 Wolfsburg (h), 12/04/16 Quarter-final second leg
93 Wolfsburg (h), 12/04/16 Quarter-final second leg
94 Sporting CP (h), 14/09/16 Group stage
95 Dortmund (a), 27/09/16 Group stage
96 Bayern (a), 12/04/17 Quarter-final first leg
97 Bayern (a), 12/04/17 Quarter-final first leg
98 Bayern (h), 18/04/17 Quarter-final second leg
99 Bayern (h), 18/04/17 Quarter-final second leg
100 Bayern (h), 18/04/17 Quarter-final second leg

Not a lot of substance in there when you dissect it, to disprove what I'm saying, bar the Juve games. Most of his goals coming in the groups against cannon fodder, and tier two teams like like Roma, Shalke and CSKA. Again, when they meet a top team in the next round his goal scoring goes missing. As I said found wanting against Atleti on 4 occassions etc. I'm not saying he's not a good goal scorer, but nothing special when pitted alongside the other great goal scorers, who themselves would be a level or two below the Maradona's or Cruyff's of this world.

The Talking Bread

Christ! You are the gift that keeps giving!

Give me a breakdown of the goals scored by the "greatest goalscorers" then and we will compare them!

The Talking Bread

Also you can only score against the teams you are playing against. So give me a breakdown of his failings and we will have a look at the real "great goalscorers " and see their records!

Also to say he isn't quite as good as Maradona etc is not exactly a great basis to degrade anyone!

Dirty Dingus McGee

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Not a lot of substance in there when you dissect it, to disprove what I'm saying, bar the Juve games. Most of his goals coming in the groups against cannon fodder, and tier two teams like like Roma, Shalke and CSKA. Again, when they meet a top team in the next round his goal scoring goes missing. As I said found wanting against Atleti on 4 occassions etc. I'm not saying he's not a good goal scorer, but nothing special when pitted alongside the other great goal scorers, who themselves would be a level or two below the Maradona's or Cruyff's of this world.

He' scored a **** load against Bayern from the quarter finals on.
Are they a tier 2 team in your opinion?

Or is a team who have actually won the champions league and been to three finals this decade not considered to be a tier 1 team.

The Golden Miller

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Christ! You are the gift that keeps giving!

Give me a breakdown of the goals scored by the "greatest goalscorers" then and we will compare them!

Let's go through Madrid's last few seasons here. Last season he was nowhere to be seen against Atletico, nor City in the game before. The previous year he scored two early enough goals against Juve, but disappeared when the chips were down for the rest of the game and hardly featured thereafter. Didn't get a kick in the game against Atletico the round previous. The year before, again didn't get a kick against Atletico when the chips were down in the final in 13/14. In 12/13, scored one against Dortmund, but hardly featured for the rest of the game once more, when the rest of the team were bursting a gut trying to make something happen. The year previous really stood out for me against Bayern in 11/12, scored an early peno and goal, and was anonymous when Bayern started to get into it. Felt sorry for his team mates in that game as they really gave everything, while he stood up front throwing his arms around for the rest of the game. Done nothing in the first leg.

It's disingenuous comparing goal scorers of previous era's, considering how much the game has changed in favour of goal scoring, particularity in the last 10 years where the gap has become huge between the top teams and the rest etc. So many factors. But we can get into over inflated stats of the modern era if you so choose?

The Talking Bread

For goodness sake, go into politics, your ability or more aptly inability to twist everything in your favoured debate stance is nonsense! You make vocal points about Ronaldo's inferiority to other "great goalscorers" yet hide in a corner when someone asks you to prove this point.

You make graphic points about stuff like he doesn't turn up or score against teams in the latter rounds, then twist it to accomodate your stance by reducing the teams that can be considered appropriate teams to score against when someone challenges this point with evidence.

Now you are giving examples of games where he was, in your words (words that have consistently been proven to lack regular credibility) a failure yet, again, ignoring the fact that all players will have frequent off games at this level, Messi, Zidane, Ibra, Xavi, Pirlo, Modric. Yet people like you spend the whole game obsessing about Ronaldo that you manipulate your mindset so as that you can only see the shortcomings in his game and his career as it suits your "hate agenda"

You are given a graphic breakdown of all his Champions League goals and give names of players who have better records than him in the latter rounds and AGAIN you are proven wrongly when it is shown that the likes of these so called greater scorers actually have less impressive records. One of them being Messi, the best player in perhaps the history of the game playing in, arguably, the best team in the history of the game for most of his career. Again you ignore or manipulate these findings to suit your agenda.


You are a walking contradiction, a politician in the making!

Billy86

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Not a lot of substance in there when you dissect it, to disprove what I'm saying, bar the Juve games. Most of his goals coming in the groups against cannon fodder, and tier two teams like like Roma, Shalke and CSKA. Again, when they meet a top team in the next round his goal scoring goes missing. As I said found wanting against Atleti on 4 occassions etc. I'm not saying he's not a good goal scorer, but nothing special when pitted alongside the other great goal scorers, who themselves would be a level or two below the Maradona's or Cruyff's of this world.

Teams Ronaldo has not scored against in the CL, by season:

2011/12: Scored against Ajax and two against Lyon in the groups, failed to against Zagreb. Scored three against CSKA in the second round, two against Apoel in the quarters, and another two against Bayern in the semi finals. Scored against every team he played bar Zagreb.

2012/13: In the groups, scores against all three of City, Dortmund (who went on to make the final) and Ajax. In the second round scores twice against Man Utd, 3 more against Galatasaray in the quarters, and Borussia in the semis. He scored against every team he played that year.

2013/14: He scored against reigning champions Bayern the last time they met in the SL semis, which was right after him scoring against Borussia (reigning runners up) in the quarters. He also scored 4 against Schalke in the 2nd round that season and another in the final, but sure they don't count because reasons. He also scored 3 in 2 vs Juventus, who wound as finalists. He scored against every team he played that year.

2014/15: 1 vs Liverpool, 2 vs Basel and 2 vs Ludogrets in the group stages. Scored 3 vs Schalke in the round of 16, scored 2 against Juve in the semis. Atletico were the only team he failed to score against.

2015/16: Scored 2 against Roma, a hat trick against Wolfsburg. Failed to score against City, PSG or Atletico - the only season of the past six that your point is in any way valid.

2016/17: Scored against Sporting and scored against Borussia, then failed to score against Legia or Napoli (but had 4 assists in those 4 games), then goes out and scores 5 against Bayern. Has saved most of his goals for the biggest and toughest competition.

*This isn't even taking time to check if he missed any games, by the way.


To say you're clutching at straws here would be way, way too generous.

The Golden Miller

The Talking Bread wrote: »

For goodness sake, go into politics, your ability or more aptly inability to twist everything in your favoured debate stance is nonsense! You make vocal points about Ronaldo's inferiority to other "great goalscorers" yet hide in a corner when someone asks you to prove this point.

You make graphic points about stuff like he doesn't turn up or score against teams in the latter rounds, then twist it to accomodate your stance by reducing the teams that can be considered appropriate teams to score against when someone challenges this point with evidence.

Now you are giving examples of games where he was, in your words (words that have consistently been proven to lack regular credibility) a failure yet, again, ignoring the fact that all players will have frequent off games at this level, Messi, Zidane, Ibra, Xavi, Pirlo, Modric. Yet people like you spend the whole game obsessing about Ronaldo that you manipulate your mindset so as that you can only see the shortcomings in his game and his career as it suits your "hate agenda"

You are given a graphic breakdown of all his Champions League goals and give names of players who have better records than him in the latter rounds and AGAIN you are proven wrongly when it is shown that the likes of these so called greater scorers actually have less impressive records. One of them being Messi, the best player in perhaps the history of the game playing in, arguably, the best team in the history of the game for most of his career. Again you ignore or manipulate these findings to suit your agenda.


You are a walking contradiction, a politician in the making!

No real twisting done at all. It was no surprise to me that the Madrid fans have been whistling Ronaldo all season, his on field contributions are THAT paltry over 90 minutes, with his goals papering over the cracks. Or why do you think they've been whisteling him?

Of course players like Messi have bad games, but at least they are trying to get on the ball and make something happen. Ronaldo doesn't/isn't able to involve himself in any of the playmaking, therefore tends to be wholly anonymous for the majority of a 90 minute game. Messi's goal scoring over his career is actually more impressive than Ronaldo, despite Messi being primarily not a goalscorer or outlet. He's a roaming midfield playmaker who plays in a deeper role than Ronaldo, tasked with being the fulcrum of Barcelona that everything goes through, particularly since Xavi's absence. The fact he scores just as much as Ronaldo in spite of all this is amazing in itself.

Which goal scorers of a previous generation do you want to compare Ronaldo to? We can start by applying some context before we discuss any striker of your choosing to compare Ronaldo to. We can start with less games per season for strikers down the years, to a point where only the top teams even qualified. Then the top 2 etc. The conditions and conditioning were way below what we have today. Strikers weren't afforded the same protection and were regularly hacked off the field. The standard overall was a far more even, with not much between many of the top league, not just the "big 4" we have today. To add to this, in the last 10 years the gap between the top teams and the rest is ever growing, even within La Liga itself. You didn't get to give teams like Deportivo 7-0 hidings on a regular basis. There is so much cannon fodder and dross in Europe and La Liga compared to what came before, that a juggernaut like Madrid can just turn up and steamroll certain teams at will, with every attack being directed at Ronaldo. I've never seen a forward have it so soft.

The Golden Miller

Billy86 wrote: »

Teams Ronaldo has not scored against in the CL, by season:

2011/12: Scored against Ajax and two against Lyon in the groups, failed to against Zagreb. Scored three against CSKA in the second round, two against Apoel in the quarters, and another two against Bayern in the semi finals. Scored against every team he played bar Zagreb.

2012/13: In the groups, scores against all three of City, Dortmund (who went on to make the final) and Ajax. In the second round scores twice against Man Utd, 3 more against Galatasaray in the quarters, and Borussia in the semis. He scored against every team he played that year.

2013/14: He scored against reigning champions Bayern the last time they met in the SL semis, which was right after him scoring against Borussia (reigning runners up) in the quarters. He also scored 4 against Schalke in the 2nd round that season and another in the final, but sure they don't count because reasons. He also scored 3 in 2 vs Juventus, who wound as finalists. He scored against every team he played that year.

2014/15: 1 vs Liverpool, 2 vs Basel and 2 vs Ludogrets in the group stages. Scored 3 vs Schalke in the round of 16, scored 2 against Juve in the semis. Atletico were the only team he failed to score against.

2015/16: Scored 2 against Roma, a hat trick against Wolfsburg. Failed to score against City, PSG or Atletico - the only season of the past six that your point is in any way valid.

2016/17: Scored against Sporting and scored against Borussia, then failed to score against Legia or Napoli (but had 4 assists in those 4 games), then goes out and scores 5 against Bayern. Has saved most of his goals for the biggest and toughest competition.

*This isn't even taking time to check if he missed any games, by the way.


To say you're clutching at straws here would be way, way too generous.

He's a great goal scorer. Did I say otherwise? I think your missing the point, unless all goal scorers with good ratio's and stats are the best players ever? Just keep hiding behind the stats. Sure he got a goal against Juve, why should he try a leg for the other 70 minutes?

The Talking Bread

I think this is correct.

Since 2011 (including 2011), Messi has only scored in 6 games for Barca post last 16 stage (ie QF/SF/Final) (9 goals altogether). Same period Ronaldo has scored in 15 games. (24 goals)

What is your twist on this one. I am starting to enjoy this manipulation attempts you keep throwing out aimlessly.

The Talking Bread

The Golden Miller wrote: »

No real twisting done at all. It was no surprise to me that the Madrid fans have been whistling Ronaldo all season, his on field contributions are THAT paltry over 90 minutes, with his goals papering over the cracks. Or why do you think they've been whisteling him?

Of course players like Messi have bad games, but at least they are trying to get on the ball and make something happen. Ronaldo doesn't/isn't able to involve himself in any of the playmaking, therefore tends to be wholly anonymous for the majority of a 90 minute game. Messi's goal scoring over his career is actually more impressive than Ronaldo, despite Messi being primarily not a goalscorer or outlet. He's a roaming midfield playmaker who plays in a deeper role than Ronaldo, tasked with being the fulcrum of Barcelona that everything goes through, particularly since Xavi's absence. The fact he scores just as much as Ronaldo in spite of all this is amazing in itself.

Which goal scorers of a previous generation do you want to compare Ronaldo to? We can start by applying some context before we discuss any striker of your choosing to compare Ronaldo to. We can start with less games per season for strikers down the years, to a point where only the top teams even qualified. Then the top 2 etc. The conditions and conditioning were way below what we have today. Strikers weren't afforded the same protection and were regularly hacked off the field. The standard overall was a far more even, with not much between many of the top league, not just the "big 4" we have today. To add to this, in the last 10 years the gap between the top teams and the rest is ever growing, even within La Liga itself. You didn't get to give teams like Deportivo 7-0 hidings on a regular basis. There is so much cannon fodder and dross in Europe and La Liga compared to what came before, that a juggernaut like Madrid can just turn up and steamroll certain teams at will, with every attack being directed at Ronaldo. I've never seen a forward have it so soft.

I am not a Madrid fan.

The Golden Miller

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I am not a Madrid fan.

Nor am I. What's your point?

Billy86

The Golden Miller wrote: »

He's a great goal scorer. Did I say otherwise? I think your missing the point, unless all goal scorers with good ratio's and stats are the best players ever? Just keep hiding behind the stats. Sure he got a goal against Juve, why should he try a leg for the other 70 minutes?

You clearly didn't read your own post that I quoted. Here it is again (in direct response to a list of his goalscoring record):

"Not a lot of substance in there when you dissect it, to disprove what I'm saying, bar the Juve games. Most of his goals coming in the groups against cannon fodder, and tier two teams like like Roma, Shalke and CSKA. Again, when they meet a top team in the next round his goal scoring goes missing. As I said found wanting against Atleti on 4 occassions etc. I'm not saying he's not a good goal scorer, but nothing special when pitted alongside the other great goal scorers, who themselves would be a level or two below the Maradona's or Cruyff's of this world."

The Golden Miller

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I think this is correct.

Since 2011 (including 2011), Messi has only scored in 6 games for Barca post last 16 stage (ie QF/SF/Final) (9 goals altogether). Same period Ronaldo has scored in 15 games. (24 goals)

What is your twist on this one. I am starting to enjoy this manipulation attempts you keep throwing out aimlessly.

I don't rate players on how many tap ins they can get in games where every attack is directed to their feet. Nor do I rate Messi on the goals he scores. He is instrumental to how Barca play, and the key driving force that indirectly leads to nearly every goal they score. Messi could have scored 0 goals this season from midfield, but he'd still be out performing Ronaldo. Unless you compare them on their goal stats alone?

The Golden Miller

Billy86 wrote: »

You clearly didn't read your own post that I quoted. Here it is again (in direct response to a list of his goalscoring record):

"Not a lot of substance in there when you dissect it, to disprove what I'm saying, bar the Juve games. Most of his goals coming in the groups against cannon fodder, and tier two teams like like Roma, Shalke and CSKA. Again, when they meet a top team in the next round his goal scoring goes missing. As I said found wanting against Atleti on 4 occassions etc. I'm not saying he's not a good goal scorer, but nothing special when pitted alongside the other great goal scorers, who themselves would be a level or two below the Maradona's or Cruyff's of this world."

Ye, he's a great scorer. Did I say otherwise? The best goal scorer ever? No way. He's good, but often found wanting against good defenses like Atletico in the Champions League. Do you think he had a good game against Dortmund? Or Juve when he scored early and done nothing for the next 70 minutes? But sure he scored and it's a stat so he must have been great

The Talking Bread

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I don't rate players on how many tap ins they can get in games where every attack is directed to their feet. Nor do I rate Messi on the goals he scores. He is instrumental to how Barca play, and the key driving force that indirectly leads to nearly every goal they score. Messi could have scored 0 goals this season from midfield, but he'd still be out performing Ronaldo. Unless you compare them on their goal stats alone?

Tap ins??!!

If it is so easy for a player to get into positions to score tap ins why in Gods name don't they!
What about Gerd Muller, tell us about the quality of the goals he scored if he is so better a goalscorer than Ronaldo!

FWIW, here is all Ronaldo's European goals (excluding his fine hattrick on Tuesday)
Give me a breakdown of the tap ins v goals that merit appreciation!

As I said, twist, manipulate, ignore, twist, manipulate, ignore!

irishman86

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I lost the bet, I've no qualms with saying I got it wrong. It doesn't take away from the actual point I was making though, Ronaldo rarely (again, I never said he hadn't done it before) scores more than a single goal against the top teams at the business end of the Champions League and I stand by that. The fact he's done it 3 times against Bayern in 5 years and no one else I can think of, says it all. A Bayern team in transition in Guardiola's first year, who were atrocious at the back and got ripped apart. Everyone was getting in on the act. They could have had another 5 over that tie. Then he tagged on his second against 10 men twice, in another two game's where Bayern's defense was left hopelessly exposed and had to chase the game. Now this "2 goals" argument was made in relation to a larger point, Ronaldo contributes little else outside of goal scoring. His only criteria for being the best ever in many people's opinion is his stats and goal scoring, I was pointing out that it's decidedly average against the top teams. Not all the great from one of the best ever, is it?

He may hold the record against Atletico since he joined La Liga, but how is his record against them since Simone took over, particularly in the Champions League. One goal in 4 games, a last minute peno in a game already won. 360 minutes of effectively watching from the sidelines. He's scored 3 or 4 against them in a cup where they fielded weakened teams, and scored on 3 occasions in the league in the last 4 years I think. 5 or 6 games there where he contributed nothing. Atletico raise their game for the Champions League, and Ronaldo has been continually found wanting again them

So ya when you come out with statements like yeah he holds the record after saying he doesnt score against them, it kinda proves my point
You realise Messi for example has scored less than Ronaldo in the knock out stages in the champions league, but hey that doesnt suit your incorrect agenda on what a great player is.
You have honestly posted nothing to prove you know anything about football imo, all youve shown is you have a great dislike for Ronaldo well past pathetic

Jayop

Should United win the EL and finish outside of the top 4 would the PL be the first league to have had 5 teams in?

irishman86

Jayop wrote: »

Should United win the EL and finish outside of the top 4 would the PL be the first league to have had 5 teams in?

They did that already when Liverpool won, although Everton failed at qualifying

The Golden Miller

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Tap ins??!!

If it is so easy for a player to get into positions to score tap ins why in Gods name don't they!
What about Gerd Muller, tell us about the quality of the goals he scored if he is so better a goalscorer than Ronaldo!

FWIW, here is all Ronaldo's European goals (excluding his fine hattrick on Tuesday)
Give me a breakdown of the tap ins v goals that merit appreciation!

As I said, twist, manipulate, ignore, twist, manipulate, ignore!

Most striker try to. Most strikers don't have the luxury of playing with Real Madrid though in this current era. I never said Muller was a way better goal scorer than Ronaldo (although he played in a harder era), I said they were both great goal scorers with many shortcomings in their overall game, with both being below the Maradona's, Messi's and Cruyff's of this world because of this. I use Muller as the benchmark in the Ronaldo argument, because many rate Ronaldo as the best of his era and one of the best ever due to his goalscoring stats alone, yet Muller, despite being just as impressive, was never considered the best of his era or lauded as arguably the best ever despite his stats. Why is this?

The Talking Bread

Jayop wrote: »

Should United win the EL and finish outside of the top 4 would the PL be the first league to have had 5 teams in?

Spain had 5 this season. Madrid, Barca, Sevilla, Atleti and Villareal entered at Playoff stage. Lost to Monaco

The Golden Miller

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Spain had 5 this season. Madrid, Barca, Sevilla, Atleti and Villareal entered at Playoff stage. Lost to Monaco

Think they had 5 last season too?

Jayop

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Spain had 5 this season. Madrid, Barca, Sevilla, Atleti and Villareal entered at Playoff stage. Lost to Monaco

Yeah Seville winning the EL 3 times in a row had me wondering. Wasn't sure when this rule had come in.

So if Villareal went out at the play off has a nation ever had 5 in the groups? You'd imagine if England managed to get Chelsea, Spurs, City, Liverpool and United in they would have a great shout at all qualifying.

The Golden Miller

irishman86 wrote: »

So ya when you come out with statements like yeah he holds the record after saying he doesnt score against them, it kinda proves my point
You realise Messi for example has scored less than Ronaldo in the knock out stages in the champions league, but hey that doesnt suit your incorrect agenda on what a great player is.
You have honestly posted nothing to prove you know anything about football imo, all youve shown is you have a great dislike for Ronaldo well past pathetic

I don't really see the relevance of goals before Simeone came. They are a different team now.

The Talking Bread

Jayop wrote: »

Yeah Seville winning the EL 3 times in a row had me wondering. Wasn't sure when this rule had come in.

So if Villareal went out at the play off has a nation ever had 5 in the groups? You'd imagine if England managed to get Chelsea, Spurs, City, Liverpool and United in they would have a great shout at all qualifying.

You could argue that a couple of seasons that Celtic were in the UK had 5 and then run for cover!

The Golden Miller

Jayop wrote: »

Yeah Seville winning the EL 3 times in a row had me wondering. Wasn't sure when this rule had come in.

So if Villareal went out at the play off has a nation ever had 5 in the groups? You'd imagine if England managed to get Chelsea, Spurs, City, Liverpool and United in they would have a great shout at all qualifying.

I think Spain had 5 last year in the groups. Weren't Valencia in the mix and went out in their last group game? I remember flicking over between them and Roma. That is along with Seville qualifying from the Uefa Cup, and the two Madrids and Barca?

irishman86

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I don't really see the relevance of goals before Simeone came. They are a different team now.

Thats the problem, you dont understand a lot about football and I havent got time or the patience to teach you. Im sure one of the other 12 posters schooling you will help you figure it out

Jayop

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I think Spain had 5 last year in the groups. Weren't Valencia in the mix and went out in their last group game? I remember flicking over between them and Roma. That is along with Seville qualifying from the Uefa Cup, and the two Madrids and Barca?

You're correct. Madrid, Sevilla, Valencia, Barca & Atletico.

3 of whom topped their groups and 2 went into the EL.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_UEFA_Champions_League#Group_stage

Thank the lord for Wikipedia.

Billy86

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Ye, he's a great scorer. Did I say otherwise? The best goal scorer ever? No way. He's good, but often found wanting against good defenses like Atletico in the Champions League. Do you think he had a good game against Dortmund? Or Juve when he scored early and done nothing for the next 70 minutes? But sure he scored and it's a stat so he must have been great

Wash, rinse, repeat:

Teams Ronaldo has not scored against in the CL, by season:

2011/12: Scored against Ajax and two against Lyon in the groups, failed to against Zagreb. Scored three against CSKA in the second round, two against Apoel in the quarters, and another two against Bayern in the semi finals. Scored against every team he played bar Zagreb.

2012/13: In the groups, scores against all three of City, Dortmund (who went on to make the final) and Ajax. In the second round scores twice against Man Utd, 3 more against Galatasaray in the quarters, and Borussia in the semis. He scored against every team he played that year.

2013/14: He scored against reigning champions Bayern the last time they met in the SL semis, which was right after him scoring against Borussia (reigning runners up) in the quarters. He also scored 4 against Schalke in the 2nd round that season and another in the final, but sure they don't count because reasons. He also scored 3 in 2 vs Juventus, who wound as finalists. He scored against every team he played that year.

2014/15: 1 vs Liverpool, 2 vs Basel and 2 vs Ludogrets in the group stages. Scored 3 vs Schalke in the round of 16, scored 2 against Juve in the semis. Atletico were the only team he failed to score against.

2015/16: Scored 2 against Roma, a hat trick against Wolfsburg. Failed to score against City, PSG or Atletico - the only season of the past six that your point is in any way valid.

2016/17: Scored against Sporting and scored against Borussia, then failed to score against Legia or Napoli (but had 4 assists in those 4 games), then goes out and scores 5 against Bayern. Has saved most of his goals for the biggest and toughest competition.

*This isn't even taking time to check if he missed any games, by the way.


If your point is anything but utter nonsense, you will be able to find me a number of players with similar records.

And that is before mentioning that Ronaldo has the most assists in CL history to boot. But that doesn't fit the narrative, so feel free to go ahead and ignore it.

The Golden Miller

irishman86 wrote: »

Thats the problem, you dont understand a lot about football and I havent got time or the patience to teach you. Im sure one of the other 12 posters schooling you will help you figure it out

No, the context was Ronaldo struggling against a top defense. He failed to do anything when Athletic brought their A game to the Champions League, and has regularly struggled against them in La Liga since Simeone came. Trying to twist this point by bringing in goals when Atleti were a mid table club is disingenuous in the extreme.

The Golden Miller

Billy86 wrote: »

Wash, rinse, repeat:

Teams Ronaldo has not scored against in the CL, by season:

2011/12: Scored against Ajax and two against Lyon in the groups, failed to against Zagreb. Scored three against CSKA in the second round, two against Apoel in the quarters, and another two against Bayern in the semi finals. Scored against every team he played bar Zagreb.

2012/13: In the groups, scores against all three of City, Dortmund (who went on to make the final) and Ajax. In the second round scores twice against Man Utd, 3 more against Galatasaray in the quarters, and Borussia in the semis. He scored against every team he played that year.

2013/14: He scored against reigning champions Bayern the last time they met in the SL semis, which was right after him scoring against Borussia (reigning runners up) in the quarters. He also scored 4 against Schalke in the 2nd round that season and another in the final, but sure they don't count because reasons. He also scored 3 in 2 vs Juventus, who wound as finalists. He scored against every team he played that year.

2014/15: 1 vs Liverpool, 2 vs Basel and 2 vs Ludogrets in the group stages. Scored 3 vs Schalke in the round of 16, scored 2 against Juve in the semis. Atletico were the only team he failed to score against.

2015/16: Scored 2 against Roma, a hat trick against Wolfsburg. Failed to score against City, PSG or Atletico - the only season of the past six that your point is in any way valid.

2016/17: Scored against Sporting and scored against Borussia, then failed to score against Legia or Napoli (but had 4 assists in those 4 games), then goes out and scores 5 against Bayern. Has saved most of his goals for the biggest and toughest competition.

*This isn't even taking time to check if he missed any games, by the way.


If your point is anything but utter nonsense, you will be able to find me a number of players with similar records.

And that is before mentioning that Ronaldo has the most assists in CL history to boot. But that doesn't fit the narrative, so feel free to go ahead and ignore it.

Yes, if you want similar record, go look at Mullers stats and ratio's or a heap of other strikers who done it under far harder circumstances. I still don't really know what you're trying to prove here, I said he's a great goal scorer? But he has been found wanting when the chips are down. That includes his overall performance, not just one goal here or there and then pulling a disappearing act for the rest of the game like against Juve or Dortmund, or his complete no shows against Atletico. He is what he is, a great goal scorer, just as there has been many other great goal scorers. But none of them would be comparable to the truly elite players like Messi, Maradona, Cruyff etc. Is my point really that hard to understand?

The Golden Miller

Jayop wrote: »

You're correct. Madrid, Sevilla, Valencia, Barca & Atletico.

3 of whom topped their groups and 2 went into the EL.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_UEFA_Champions_League#Group_stage

Thank the lord for Wikipedia.

I'm sure Eamon Dunphy would have known that one. Or is he the resident "European expert" these days? Loved when Johnny Giles handed proceedings over the Dunphy to get the in dept expert analysis on the likes of Valencia and Real Betis

The Talking Bread

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Yes, if you want similar record, go look at Mullers stats and ratio's or a heap of other strikers who done it under far harder circumstances. I still don't really know what you're trying to prove here, I said he's a great goal scorer? But he has been found wanting when the chips are down. That includes his overall performance, not just one goal here or there and then pulling a disappearing act for the rest of the game like against Juve or Dortmund, or his complete no shows against Atletico. He is what he is, a great goal scorer, just as there has been many other great goal scorers. But none of them would be comparable to the truly elite players like Messi, Maradona, Cruyff etc. Is my point really that hard to understand?

Once you understand and abide by them, you can be happy! But trust me and most everyone else when we have stated with evidence and better judgement, not merely based on hate and frank refusal to back down on a point, your points are flawed, contradictory, wrongly rationalised and more often than not, bizarre!

Anyway, keep staking money against him and obsessing about him, it is a pointless exercise trying to have a serious debate with fact twisters and manipulators of evidence!

The Golden Miller

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Once you understand and abide by them, you can be happy! But trust me and most everyone else when we have stated with evidence and better judgement, not merely based on hate and frank refusal to back down on a point, your points are flawed, contradictory, wrongly rationalised and more often than not, bizarre!

Making the distinction between the top goal scorers and the truly elite players isn't that bizarre. People insist on taking point with this, with the intention of showing how Ronaldo is one of the greatest ever.....by continually churning out stats (thereby proving he is just a goal scorer without realising the irony). If what I say is so bizarre, why can not one person explain why Ronaldo is arguably the greatest of all time due to his goal scoring stats, but Muller wasn't even the best of his era because he "was just a goal scorer", despite having the best "stats". And lets call a spade a spade here, Muller has never ever been held in the same esteem as your Platini's, Cruyff's, Zidane's, Maradona's and Messi's. Why is Ronaldo getting shoehorned into this elite bracket, but none of the other top goal scorers are?

The Golden Miller

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Penalty as in if it goes to Penos? Or if he scores a Penalty?

Either way i'll take the €20. Assuming free kicks count?

No peno's, but yes, free kicks do count as do rebounds from a peno. So 20 it is