2016-17 UEFA Champions League

bucketybuck

Regarding the Ronaldo debate, you guys do realise that this particular gimmick poster has been shown all this before and that all the facts and common sense in the world mean little to this particular numpty?

Its your time to waste, but you do know what they say about arguing with idiots?

Rekop dog

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Making the distinction between the top goal scorers and the truly elite players isn't that bizarre. People insist on taking point with this, with the intention of showing how Ronaldo is one of the greatest ever.....by continually churning out stats (thereby proving he is just a goal scorer without realising the irony). If what I say is so bizarre, why can not one person explain why Ronaldo is arguably the greatest of all time due to his goal scoring stats, but Muller wasn't even the best of his era because he "was just a goal scorer", despite having the best "stats". And lets call a spade a spade here, Muller has never ever been held in the same esteem as your Platini's, Cruyff's, Zidane's, Maradona's and Messi's. Why is Ronaldo getting shoehorned into this elite bracket, but none of the other top goal scorers are?

In this day and age of analytics, goals per games is far far lower than what it was in Mullers era. Defensive are far better drilled of opponents threats. For Ronaldo to be doing what he's doing in this era is so much more impressive.

The Golden Miller

bucketybuck wrote: »

Regarding the Ronaldo debate, you guys do realise that this particular gimmick poster has been shown all this before and that all the facts and common sense in the world mean little to this particular numpty?

Its your time to waste, but you do know what they say about arguing with idiots?

Yes gimmick, because you of all people are probably the biggest culprit of being unable to make the Gerd Muller and Ronaldo distinction, and just churn out stats. I remember at one point you tried debating on the other facets of his game, but were unable to show even one article from after a match lauding his 90 minute performance unless it related to goals. Gimmick indeed!

The Golden Miller

Rekop dog wrote: »

In this day and age of analytics, goals per games is far far lower than what it was in Mullers era. Defensive are far better drilled of opponents threats. For Ronaldo to be doing what he's doing in this era is so much more impressive.

Did you actually post that with a straight face? It's the opposite, and even if what you said was true, it's nullified by the widening gap between the top teams like Madrid and the rest, particularly in Spain. That isn't a slight on the Spanish teams as it is the best league in the world, but most teams in the league place an onus on an attacking possession based game and their defenses leave alot to be desired. It's fine when they play their English counterparts for example, they just retain the ball and pick them off, but that advantage is gone against the likes of Madrid, who can out pass them and then have a field day attacking their soft underbelly. Ronaldo's stats are hugely inflated due to the hidings Madrid are able to dish out to the weaker teams, with every attack being directed to Ronaldo

bucketybuck

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Yes gimmick, because you of all people are probably the biggest culprit of being unable to make the Gerd Muller and Ronaldo distinction, and just churn out stats. I remember at one point you tried debating on the other facets of his game, but were unable to show even one article from after a match lauding his 90 minute performance unless it related to goals. Gimmick indeed!

You must be confusing me with somebody who doesn't know your gimmick and actually tries to engage with your drivel.

The Golden Miller

bucketybuck wrote: »

You must be confusing me with somebody who doesn't know your gimmick and actually tries to engage with your drivel.

You used to

Billy86

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Yes, if you want similar record, go look at Mullers stats and ratio's or a heap of other strikers who done it under far harder circumstances.

You mean Gerd Muller who played for one of the absolute greatest teams of all time in 70s Bayern at a time when many clubs competing in Europe were still amateur-to-semi pro? Here is who he played and the goals he scored over his peak:

1972/73: 3 vs Glatasaray, 7 vs Omonia, 1 vs Ajax
1973/74: 8 goals - 2 vs Atvidaberg, 2 vs Dresden, 1 vs CSKA Sofia, 1 vs Ujpesti Dosza, 2 vs Atletico
1974/75: 5 goals - 4 vs Magdeburg, 0 vs Yerevan, 0 vs St. Etienne, 1 vs Leeds.
1975/76: 5 goals - 0 vs Malmo, 2 vs Benfica, 3 vs Madrid, 0 vs St. Etienne
1976/77: 5 goals - 2 vs Koge, 3 vs Ostrava, 0 vs Kyiv
1977/78 (UEFA): 4 goals - 3 vs Mjondalen, 1 vs Marek, 0 vs Frankfurt

Lots of goals against fodder, some goals vs big teams like Madrid, Ajax, Leeds and Atletico, and blanks against other top clubs of the time like St Etienne (twice) and Kyiv. The gap between the established pro teams and the smaller teams from obscure nations was also considerably bigger back then, with aggregate scores of 10-0, 11-2, 12-0 and so on commonplace in the early rounds (my favourite being Chelsea's 21-0 aggregate score in the 1971/73 CWC).

Since turning has attention to being more of a goalscorer a few years back, Ronaldo has 65 CL goals in 57 games, while racking up assists in record numbers. Muller spent his whole career as far more of a poacher than Ronaldo ever has been 35 EC goals in 36 EC games (70 goals in 79 games across all European competitions). There is no question that the depth competition in Europe has gotten better since the 1970s, and as good as this Real Madrid team is, it is not 1970s Bayern Munich.

So to summarise, Ronaldo has scored at least as consistently against the top clubs, racked up assists at a record number on top of that, had previously won the Balon d'Or as an explosive mainly wide player previously, has been a more profilic EC/CL scorer in a probably-not-as-great team against on average better competition, and is clear as day to anyone not trying to tell themselves "this is not happening, this is not happening, this is not happening" without any remote possible question one of the greatest players to have ever stepped on the field. Anybody trying to argue otherwise against Ronaldo or Messi simply does not deserve to be taken seriously.

I still don't really know what you're trying to prove here, I said he's a great goal scorer? But he has been found wanting when the chips are down.

I have proven this is not the case, shown it to you twice, and you continue to just flat out ignore it. Like I said you would.

That includes his overall performance, not just one goal here or there and then pulling a disappearing act for the rest of the game like against Juve or Dortmund, or his complete no shows against Atletico.

Given how flat out dishonest (it's not mistaken, when it is proven to not be the case and you continue to trot it out it becomes a lie), you have been about his goalscoring record against the top teams, I'm not even debating this with you because you are not capable of honest discussion relating to him.

He is what he is, a great goal scorer, just as there has been many other great goal scorers. But none of them would be comparable to the truly elite players like Messi, Maradona, Cruyff etc. Is my point really that hard to understand?

You left out and completely ignored him having the most assists in CL history, again. Exactly like I said you would, because it doesn't suit the narrative you're clinging on to in spite of reality.

It's kind of sad, much like watching someone try to claim a Usain Bolt, or Michael Phelps, or Tiger Woods, or Dan Carter, or Anderson Silva, or GSP, or Tom Brady were not among the best ever in their sports simply because that person clearly, desperately never wanted them to be in the first place and couldn't stand being proven wrong over time.

Mr.Nice Guy

Delighted that Monaco progressed. They've been a joy to watch this season. I hope they make the final.

I think Atletico might be their best opponent out of the remaining teams. Monaco are quite vulnerable defensively in the full-back positions and I can see Real exploiting that to great effect if they land them.

The Golden Miller

Billy86 wrote: »

You mean Gerd Muller who .............Anybody trying to argue otherwise against Ronaldo or Messi simply does not deserve to be taken seriously.

Are you under the impression I'm comparing Muller and Ronaldo as to who was the better goal scorer? I could not care less. They were the two top goal scorers of their day, with similar ratio's, and huge shortcomings in their overall play. Yet one is considered the greatest of all time, the other is not even considered the best of his era. Do the math.

No one would argue against Messi, as Messi is not considered one of the best ever because of his goal scoring, it's because of everything he contributes over 90 minutes. The only thing Ronaldo is comparable to him on is goal scoring, and that's where the comparisons end. Messi has a whole other side to his game that Ronaldo can only dream of, and anyone who tries to equate them as being equals "does not deserve to be taken seriously"

Billy86 wrote: »

I have proven this is not the case, shown it to you twice, and you continue to just flat out ignore it. Like I said you would.

How have you proven this is not the case? If he's more than just a goal scorer like you say, where was he 4 times against Atletico? He wasn't even trying to get on the ball to make something happen. Totally anonymous. He's been a no show in 3 Champions League finals etc etc

Billy86 wrote: »

Given how flat out dishonest (it's not mistaken, when it is proven to not be the case and you continue to trot it out it becomes a lie), you have been about his goalscoring record against the top teams, I'm not even debating this with you because you are not capable of honest discussion relating to him.

He disappeared against Juve and Dortmund after getting an early goal or two. Hardly touched a ball thereafter. That simple. Go read any article from the time, and link it here if it contradicts anything I've said. Same against Bayern, the last real Bayern team before they started this tiki-taka suff.

Billy86 wrote: »

You left out and completely ignored him having the most assists in CL history, again. Exactly like I said you would, because it doesn't suit the narrative you're clinging on to in spite of reality.

I don't care for his assists, as they tell you very little, other than he spends his time hanging around the box as he's unable to engage in the game in any meaningful way. Like if a player carves a defense open with a through ball and it lands at Ronaldo's feet, laying off a two yard pass is hardly ground breaking stuff from a player on half a million a week. Yet your judgement is so clouded by these out of context "stats", you'll be telling us he's a better playmaker than Pirlo because of his assist count. By the very nature of hanging around a box, you'll pick up assists

Billy86 wrote: »

It's kind of sad, much like watching someone try to claim a Usain Bolt, or Michael Phelps, or Tiger Woods, or Dan Carter, or Anderson Silva, or GSP, or Tom Brady were not among the best ever in their sports simply because that person clearly, desperately never wanted them to be in the first place and couldn't stand being proven wrong over time.

Messi is our modern day equivalent of the above in football, and stands without any peers in that respect i.e being in the pantheon of the true elites of his chosen field. He's the whole package. Ronaldo is the best/second best goalscorer of his era.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Jayop wrote: »

Should United win the EL and finish outside of the top 4 would the PL be the first league to have had 5 teams in?

There were 5 Spanish teams in the group stages last year.

Barca,Real,Athletico,Valencia and Sevilla.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Where is Gerd Muller not considered one of the all time great players.

Thats another bull**** point being made to back up a bull**** point being made.

Muller won the Ballon D'Or in 1970 and here is what Karl Heinz Rummenigge said about him "Gerd Muller is one of the greats of world football, Without his goals, Bayern and German football would not be what they are today".

bucketybuck

The Golden Miller wrote: »

You used to

At least you have given up denying the gimmick and drivel parts.

Officer999

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Are you under the impression I'm comparing Muller and Ronaldo as to who was the better goal scorer? I could not care less. They were the two top goal scorers of their day, with similar ratio's, and huge shortcomings in their overall play. Yet one is considered the greatest of all time, the other is not even considered the best of his era. Do the math.

No one would argue against Messi, as Messi is not considered one of the best ever because of his goal scoring, it's because of everything he contributes over 90 minutes. The only thing Ronaldo is comparable to him on is goal scoring, and that's where the comparisons end. Messi has a whole other side to his game that Ronaldo can only dream of, and anyone who tries to equate them as being equals "does not deserve to be taken seriously"



How have you proven this is not the case? If he's more than just a goal scorer like you say, where was he 4 times against Atletico? He wasn't even trying to get on the ball to make something happen. Totally anonymous. He's been a no show in 3 Champions League finals etc etc



He disappeared against Juve and Dortmund after getting an early goal or two. Hardly touched a ball thereafter. That simple. Go read any article from the time, and link it here if it contradicts anything I've said. Same against Bayern, the last real Bayern team before they started this tiki-taka suff.



I don't care for his assists, as they tell you very little, other than he spends his time hanging around the box as he's unable to engage in the game in any meaningful way. Like if a player carves a defense open with a through ball and it lands at Ronaldo's feet, laying off a two yard pass is hardly ground breaking stuff from a player on half a million a week. Yet your judgement is so clouded by these out of context "stats", you'll be telling us he's a better playmaker than Pirlo because of his assist count. By the very nature of hanging around a box, you'll pick up assists



Messi is our modern day equivalent of the above in football, and stands without any peers in that respect i.e being in the pantheon of the true elites of his chosen field. He's the whole package. Ronaldo is the best/second best goalscorer of his era.

Wow.....just wow :eek:

Have you not watched Ronaldo play the last 10 years?

niallo27

bucketybuck wrote: »

Regarding the Ronaldo debate, you guys do realise that this particular gimmick poster has been shown all this before and that all the facts and common sense in the world mean little to this particular numpty?

Its your time to waste, but you do know what they say about arguing with idiots?

He is entitled to his opinion in fairness without calling him an idiot.

Billy86

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Are you under the impression I'm comparing Muller and Ronaldo as to who was the better goal scorer? I could not care less.

Can you please be honest for just one single post?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103276532&postcount=5231
"Ye, he's a great scorer. Did I say otherwise? The best goal scorer ever? No way. He's good, but often found wanting against good defenses like Atletico in the Champions League."

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103276996&postcount=5247
"Yes, if you want similar record, go look at Mullers stats and ratio's or a heap of other strikers who done it under far harder circumstances. "

You're so blinded by your bitter hatred to Ronaldo becoming the player you (and many others, almost all of which have had the decency to admit their error on) thought, hoped and prayed he would never be that you can't even attempt to talk honestly about him in any way, shape or form. Give it a few weeks (actually, probably days) and you'll be pretending he has never scored against top teams in Europe all over again, hoping to not get called on it. It's both sad and comical, as I said much like someone trying to claim Usain Bolt, Anderson Silva or Tom Brady are not among the best ever in their own sports simply because it means they were incredibly wrong way back when. Just keep telling yourself "it isn't happening", the rest of us are having a fair laugh off of it!

irishman86

Anyone else getting the feeling this might finally be the year Messi/Ronaldo dont win the Balon D'or.
Messi has been scoring a lot and Ronaldo has come back on form for 2017. I cant help but feel every time Ive watched Madrid/Barcelona/etc that Sergio Ramos is playing amazing football.

Dirty Dingus McGee

irishman86 wrote: »

Anyone else getting the feeling this might finally be the year Messi/Ronaldo dont win the Balon D'or.
Messi has been scoring a lot and Ronaldo has come back on form for 2017. I cant help but feel every time Ive watched Madrid/Barcelona/etc that Sergio Ramos is playing amazing football.

If Juve win the champions league I hope Buffon wins it as a sort of lifetime achievement type Balon D'or .

irishman86

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

If Juve win the champions league I hope Buffon wins it as a sort of lifetime achievement type Balon D'or .

Like when Giggs won player of the year in England. We would all just look the other way :cool:

bucketybuck

irishman86 wrote: »

Anyone else getting the feeling this might finally be the year Messi/Ronaldo dont win the Balon D'or.

If they don't it will make a mockery of the award, they are still far and away the best players in the world. Doesn't Messi have something like 45 goals already this season?

If there is a better player more deserving of the award then give it to him, but I hope they always judge it on merit instead of giving lifetime awards or ignoring Messi/Ronaldo just for the sake of change.

irishman86

bucketybuck wrote: »

If they don't it will make a mockery of the award, they are still far and away the best players in the world. Doesn't Messi have something like 45 goals already this season?

If there is a better player more deserving of the award then give it to him, but I hope they always judge it on merit instead of giving lifetime awards or ignoring Messi/Ronaldo just for the sake of change.

I actually feel Ramos has been better than the two. Messi can win top scorer for his most goals scored, last time I checked thats the award for most goals.
Plus he hasnt 45 goals in 2017 for when the award is given
22 goals in 26 games from a quick look. Still impressive though
Ronaldo has 14 in 25 games
Now they could have missed games, Im not sure. Neither is shabby
It will probably come down to who wins La Liga and the CL

The Golden Miller

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Where is Gerd Muller not considered one of the all time great players.

Thats another bull**** point being made to back up a bull**** point being made.

Muller won the Ballon D'Or in 1970 and here is what Karl Heinz Rummenigge said about him "Gerd Muller is one of the greats of world football, Without his goals, Bayern and German football would not be what they are today".

He won one Ballon D'or, wasn't a shoe in for 4 and runner up another 3 times based on the goals he scored, as he "was just a goalscorer". I'm not disputing his greatness either, of course he was one of the very elite strikers in his own right, but he simply hasn't garnered the plaudits that Ronaldo has, despite being probably a better striker.

Billy86 wrote: »

Can you please be honest for just one single post?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103276532&postcount=5231
"Ye, he's a great scorer. Did I say otherwise? The best goal scorer ever? No way. He's good, but often found wanting against good defenses like Atletico in the Champions League."

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103276996&postcount=5247
"Yes, if you want similar record, go look at Mullers stats and ratio's or a heap of other strikers who done it under far harder circumstances. "

The comparisons are on the basis that they are similar players with similar stats and ratio's, yet have very different standings as all time greats by many. I'm not comparing them hth to prove which one is better. You're trying to talk down and ridicule what I'm saying, yet seem to lack in basic comprehension. I don't really know why you highlighted the part in bold? Does me saying he's probably not the greatest striker ever mean I'm saying he's not a great striker? He's up there, I don't really care if he's actually the best or not as it's not the point. And on top of that I can't really see the contradiction in calling someone a great goal scorer over many seasons, while also saying they have a habit for going missing in big games. And for the record, I'd put Muller slightly ahead of Ronaldo, as the German league at the time was an extremely tough league with tougher defences.

Billy86 wrote: »

You're so blinded by your bitter hatred to Ronaldo becoming the player you (and many others, almost all of which have had the decency to admit their error on) thought, hoped and prayed he would never be that you can't even attempt to talk honestly about him in any way, shape or form. Give it a few weeks (actually, probably days) and you'll be pretending he has never scored against top teams in Europe all over again, hoping to not get called on it. It's both sad and comical, as I said much like someone trying to claim Usain Bolt, Anderson Silva or Tom Brady are not among the best ever in their own sports simply because it means they were incredibly wrong way back when. Just keep telling yourself "it isn't happening", the rest of us are having a fair laugh off of it!

You're naming guys that are supposed to be the pinnacle of their chosen sports entire history. The footballing equivalents are Pele, Maradona, Cruyff and a few others, Messi could probably be added to the list now. Ronaldo simply doesn't feature here, believe it or not. If he does, why don't Muller and a whole host of second and third tier players also make it? If it's debatable as to whether Messi is the best of all time, being a goal scorer AND one of the great playmakers, how on earth would Ronaldo feature by just being a top goal scorer, when a whole side of his game outside of goal scoring is well below the rest of Messi's game?

Dirty Dingus McGee

The Golden Miller wrote: »

He won one Ballon D'or, wasn't a shoe in for 4 and runner up another 3 times based on the goals he scored, as he "was just a goalscorer". I'm not disputing his greatness either, of course he was one of the very elite strikers in his own right, but he simply hasn't garnered the plaudits that Ronaldo has, despite being probably a better striker.

Ronaldo wasn't just a striker for the first part of his career.Of course you conveniently keep forgetting that.He gets the plaudits for being a great all round player in his earlier days and then turning himself into a great number 9 in the last few years.

Muller is widely regarded as an all time great and one of the world greatest ever players.He's named as the 8th best player of the world cup in the below piece from the guardian, he was named as the 15th best player of the 20th century by world soccer magazine so clearly has is held in very high regard just like Ronaldo is.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2014/may/27/the-world-cups-top-100-footballers-of-all-time-interactive

irishman86

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Ronaldo wasn't just a striker for the first part of his career.Of course you conveniently keep forgetting that.He gets the plaudits for being a great all round player in his earlier days and then turning himself into a great number 9 in the last few years.

Muller is widely regarded as an all time great and one of the world greatest ever players.He's named as the 8th best player of the world cup in the below piece from the guardian, he was named as the 15th best player of the 20th century by world soccer magazine so clearly has is held in very high regard just like Ronaldo is.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2014/may/27/the-world-cups-top-100-footballers-of-all-time-interactive

He doesnt rate Muller, how have you missed that. Hes googled who scores a lot of goals and the name Muller came up, thats about all his actual knowledge on Muller. Anyone who actually knows anything about football knows Mullers status in the game

The Golden Miller

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Ronaldo wasn't just a striker for the first part of his career.Of course you conveniently keep forgetting that.He gets the plaudits for being a great all round player in his earlier days and then turning himself into a great number 9 in the last few years.

Muller is widely regarded as an all time great and one of the world greatest ever players.He's named as the 8th best player of the world cup in the below piece from the guardian, he was named as the 15th best player of the 20th century by world soccer magazine so clearly has is held in very high regard just like Ronaldo is.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2014/may/27/the-world-cups-top-100-footballers-of-all-time-interactive

You're being disingenuous as you know the point I'm making, but refuse to debate it honestly. I'm aware of what Muller brought to the table, and no one did it better than him. Whatever way you want to spin this, he was never regarded on par with Maradona and Cruyff, but a level below, due to him being "just a goalscorer". And I think the general consensus would agree with this. However, Ronaldo is being talked about as Messi's equal, with alot of people claiming these are the two best players of all time. Messi is up there alright, Ronaldo simply isn't on that level. This is what I take point with. Ronaldo could of started as a playmaker for all anyone cares, the other facets to his game were simply not at a world class level, regardless if he started out on the wing or not. During THAT season at United, he lined up on the wing, but by that stage was drifting into a central strikers role, as was clearly evident when he failed to get a touch against Barca in that seasons Champions League over two legs. The season before, when he was actually playing full games on the wing, he was seen as a one trick pony with alot of showboating and tricks, rarely able to beat his man and taking the ball to the corner and whipping it in. He was never up to it outfield over 90 minutes, and came in for alot of criticism until the goals started to paper over the cracks.

irishman86 wrote: »

The doesnt rate Muller, how have you missed that. Hes googled who scores a lot of goals and the name Muller came up, thats about all his actual knowledge on Muller. Anyone who actually knows anything about football knows Mullers status in the game

More underhanded comments. It's all too personal for you.

bucketybuck

The Golden Miller wrote: »

You're being disingenuous as you know the point I'm making, but refuse to debate it honestly.

:pac:

Dirty Dingus McGee

The Golden Miller wrote: »

You're being disingenuous as you know the point I'm making, but refuse to debate it honestly. I'm aware of what Muller brought to the table, and no one did it better than him. Whatever way you want to spin this, he was never regarded on par with Maradona and Cruyff, but a level below, due to him being "just a goalscorer". And I think the general consensus would agree with this. However, Ronaldo is being talked about as Messi's equal, with alot of people claiming these are the two best players of all time. Messi is up there alright, Ronaldo simply isn't on that level. This is what I take point with. Ronaldo could of started as a playmaker for all anyone cares, the other facets to his game were simply not at a world class level, regardless if he started out on the wing or not. During THAT season at United, he lined up on the wing, but by that stage was drifting into a central strikers role, as was clearly evident when he failed to get a touch against Barca in that seasons Champions League over two legs. The season before, when he was actually playing full games on the wing, he was seen as a one trick pony with alot of showboating and tricks, rarely able to beat his man and taking the ball to the corner and whipping it in. He was never up to it outfield over 90 minutes, and came in for alot of criticism until the goals started to paper over the cracks.

People don't talk about Ronaldo and Messi being the 2 best OF ALL TIME.

inforfun

irishman86 wrote: »

Anyone else getting the feeling this might finally be the year Messi/Ronaldo dont win the Balon D'or.
Messi has been scoring a lot and Ronaldo has come back on form for 2017. I cant help but feel every time Ive watched Madrid/Barcelona/etc that Sergio Ramos is playing amazing football.

That Balon D'or thing is a farce.
Whatever Ronaldo or Messi do in the 2nd half of a year decides who of those 2 is going to take it home.
How Robben or Neuer didnt win it in 2014 has taken away any value of that election for me.

The Golden Miller

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

People don't talk about Ronaldo and Messi being the 2 best OF ALL TIME.

Yes they do, regularly

Dirty Dingus McGee

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Yes they do, regularly

Not as the 2 best of all time.Stop talking ****e would you.

The Golden Miller

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Not as the 2 best of all time.Stop talking ****e would you.

You don't, but yes, many others do

Tom.D.BJJ

The Golden Miller wrote: »

You can't call Juve a scummy club, and then hope one of the most corrupt clubs, the club of the Spanish establishment, goes on to win. The Spanish tax payer has paid for Real's 11 European Cups

Can you address this point please? Both Real and Barca were propped up by the state, right?

The Golden Miller

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

Can you address this point please? Both Real and Barca were propped up by the state, right?

What do Barca have to do with this? My point was pretty self explanatory

Tom.D.BJJ

The Golden Miller wrote: »

What do Barca have to do with this? My point was pretty self explanatory

Carefull, your mask is slipping

The Golden Miller

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

Carefull, your mask is slipping

Is it? How so?

Boots234

Real v Atletico
Monaco v Juventus

Atletico and Juventus at home in the second legs

Lord TSC

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

Carefull, your mask is slipping

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Is it? How so?

Lads, one warning. Cut out this disruptive stuff.

If you think someone is trolling, report and ignore. Any more off topic discussion down this line with result in cards.

HalloweenJack

I feel much happier about avoiding Madrid in the final, we know how that goes...

Although Madrid are better than they have been in previous seasons in the derby, I still reckon Atleti can beat them over two legs.

Fingers crossed for Monaco to get through in the other tie.

GavRedKing

Juve v Real final, hopefully Juve do it from here.

GLaDOS

Can see Juve being too disciplined for Monaco.

Atleti - Real is a very tough one to call. Atleti to edge it hopefully. They have the benefit of only concentrating on the CL.

citytillidie

Semi Finals
Real Madrid (ESP) V Atlético Madrid (ESP)
Monaco (FRA) V Juventus (ITA)

Final
Monaco (FRA)/Juventus (ITA) V Real Madrid (ESP)/Atlético Madrid (ESP)

irishman86

inforfun wrote: »

That Balon D'or thing is a farce.
Whatever Ronaldo or Messi do in the 2nd half of a year decides who of those 2 is going to take it home.
How Robben or Neuer didnt win it in 2014 has taken away any value of that election for me.

2010 was the one that annoyed me, but yeah its really which ever one of those does the business in the second term. Although if Ronaldo wins the league and CL, I see him winning it again purely based on that.
Id love to see a different winner, so Im probably dreaming to much

Father Hernandez

Would love to see Juve win it solely for Buffon, one of the best goalkeepers of his generation, if not the best.

Champions league is missing from his CV

Irish_rat

GLaDOS wrote: »

Can see Juve being too disciplined for Monaco.

Atleti - Real is a very tough one to call. Atleti to edge it hopefully. They have the benefit of only concentrating on the CL.

Real have been putting their 2nd string side out a bit lately in the league. Obviously they wont be doing that at the weekend but a game with Granada between both legs the players will be rested.

It would be some year for them to grab both the CL and league. Also the first team to win back to back CL titles even if they did rob Bayern

Irish_rat

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Would love to see Juve win it solely for Buffon, one of the best goalkeepers of his generation, if not the best.

Champions league is missing from his CV

That final in 2002 if Nedved didn't get that stupid suspension, ugh it was painful.

Keeping Barca goal-less meant a lot especially after the final two years ago.

One of the greatest, he deserve a CL for sure.

The Talking Bread

At this stage I don't think many footballers, even Ronaldo and Messi take the Balon D'or extremely seriously. I don't think you can evaluate the performance, impact, talent of hundreds of top players over a year, especially when the commercial element of FIFA's reasoning comes into play.
At the end of the day though there are less than a dozen players it can credibly go to any given year. Mostly less than that. Messi will always be there, as will Ronaldo for maybe a couple of years more, then you take players like Griezzman, Suarez, Neymar, who will be considered for sure, you then, on an average year have standout players on a "lower tier" to these players, in the media's eyes, goalkeepers, players like Robben, Modric, Benzema, Higuain, Lewandowski etc.


Messi and Ronaldo are safe choices for FIFA and their stats will always back the decision up. The "best player this year" is not exactly calculable in itself but players like Cannavaro got so much media love that, again, FIFA had a safe choice.

It is a media faceted prize which requires obvious talent but it makes no rational sense at the end of the day.

GavRedKing

GLaDOS wrote: »

Can see Juve being too disciplined for Monaco.

Atleti - Real is a very tough one to call. Atleti to edge it hopefully. They have the benefit of only concentrating on the CL.

Juve also have a good 8 point cushion in Serie A so they can rest players in and around their game if they wish too.

greendom

Would love to see Monaco's attacking style triumph.
You'd have to make Juventus favourites for that tie

The other game is very close but I think Real will come out on top.

GLaDOS

GavRedKing wrote: »

Juve also have a good 8 point cushion in Serie A so they can rest players in and around their game if they wish too.

Valid point, Monaco have PSG breathing down their necks in contrast

ERG89

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Would love to see Juve win it solely for Buffon, one of the best goalkeepers of his generation, if not the best.

Oh he's certainly the best, Kahn & Casillas went to hell form wise later on in their careers. In his peak he was much better than the ones around now.
I'd say I'd like to see him win individual honors but they mean nothing with FIFA attached to it & he isn't utterly pathetic enough to go practically campaigning for his merit like they do in Spain.

irishman86

ERG89 wrote: »

Oh he's certainly the best, Kahn & Casillas went to hell form wise later on in their careers. In his peak he was much better than the ones around now.
I'd say I'd like to see him win individual honors but they mean nothing with FIFA attached to it & he isn't utterly pathetic enough to go practically campaigning for his merit like they do in Spain.

He may not be pathetic enough, but there is nothing stopping us being that pathetic. Lets make it happen :cool: