2016-17 UEFA Champions League

deaddonkey15

Jayop wrote: »

I'd have Maradona right up there. Haven't seen enough of the other lads to compare.

Most people haven't but will still rate them as the best ever anyway.

ceegee

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Wouldn't say Ronaldo is in the top 5 to be fair to him.

Top 5 would probably be Pele,Maradona,Cryuff,Beckenbauer and Messi (In no particualr order).

First time ever there has been such a long standing rivarly between 2 all time greats though. Beckenbauer and Cryuff would have rarely played against each other these guys have been playing against each other at least 2 times a year for almost 10 years.

Out of interest how many full matches of Pele, Cruyff or Beckenbauer have you watched? I'd doubt most posters here have seen more than a handful of world cup matches.
People get slated on here for bigging up young potential signings based on youtube compilations but can class someone from 50 years ago as the best ever based on little more evidence.

The Talking Bread

Jayop wrote: »

I'd have Maradona right up there. Haven't seen enough of the other lads to compare.

This is what bloody annoys me! Young men going all out in their insistence that players like Pele or Cruyff were far better than Ronaldo or even Messi and they have barely seen a highlights reel, never mind circa a dozen seasons and hundreds of games of the two former players.

Jayop

monkey9 wrote: »

This is what i mean though. There are Arsenal fans who have only known Wenger as manager and think that's the way Arsenal have always been. There could be some who wouldn't put up with Simeone's 'anti football'. I've no problem with Simeone's way of playing at all but you'll always have some, a bit like West Ham fans, who think their team should be playing a certain way.

As far as i'm concerned, winning football in exciting football.

For me growing up Arsenal were kinda like the current Palace side but way better if that makes sense.

Billy86

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Wouldn't say Ronaldo is in the top 5 to be fair to him.

Top 5 would probably be Pele,Maradona,Cryuff,Beckenbauer and Messi (In no particualr order).

First time ever there has been such a long standing rivarly between 2 all time greats though. Beckenbauer and Cryuff would have rarely played against each other these guys have been playing against each other at least 2 times a year for almost 10 years.

To be honest I would probably place Ronaldo and Messi ahead of Cruyff at this point and don't think you can really put a difference between them. But it's all subjective of course, and once you get into the top 8-10 it becomes so close and so subjective that you're just splitting hairs all over the place!

Until some fecking lunatic comes along and tries to lob a Zidane into the mix, that is!

@monkey9

@monkey9
On Simeone:
Well for a start he'd get the best out of the players available to him. I don't expect he would have a better budget either, it would be similar.
And his team's know how to defend.
I wanted him at Utd.

Anyway regardless all things must come to an end. You can end the era well by making the correct appointment.
Compare that to Utd with the Moyes debacle and we are only slowly turning things around now because of it.

If the Arsenal board had a brain they would know this but can hold some comfort in the fact they only care about revenue. Missing the CL may force there hand however.

Last on this as don't want to throw this off topic

chopperbyrne

Real were superb tonight, and they always score so Atletico will need to score five which they will not do against this Madrid team.

Dirty Dingus McGee

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Great that you've cleared that up for everyone.

I did say probably.

I suspect a large amount of people would agree with the top 5 I suggested.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Liam O wrote: »

If Real win this tournament that will be 2 CLs and a European Championship in 12 months for Ronaldo. Probably up there with any of the above players achievements. Done it in 2 leagues while breaking pretty much every goalscoring record put in front of him.

Him and Messi are the best 2 ever and it's not even close imo.

I wouldn't say they are in fairness.

Beckenbauer and Cryuff changed the way the game was played.Pele and Maradona are widely regarded as the 2 best of all time and there is a good reason for that. Maradona elevated a mediocre team to greatness in the best league in europe and won the world cup and Pele is Pele.3 world cups, 2 Libertadores and 1000 goals speaks for itself.Pele was so good the IOC named him athlete of the century despite him never playing in the Olympics.

Dirty Dingus McGee

ceegee wrote: »

Out of interest how many full matches of Pele, Cruyff or Beckenbauer have you watched? I'd doubt most posters here have seen more than a handful of world cup matches.
People get slated on here for bigging up young potential signings based on youtube compilations but can class someone from 50 years ago as the best ever based on little more evidence.

Not many but if someone is so highly regarded by everyone in the game and the stats and achievements back up the high regard then it's OK to put them on that level.I'm providing what is widely considered not my own opinion.

ebbsy

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Ronaldo has more goals in the CL knockout stages than he does in the group stages. That's pretty amazing.

52 vs 51

Amazing stat.

fuzzydunlop85

ebbsy wrote: »

Amazing stat.

More amazing is that people can still argue he doesn't do it in the big games.

The Talking Bread

TheCitizen wrote: »

I think it has everything to do with your post, "to be fair".

It doesn't?? Perhaps read the conversation correctly.

The Talking Bread

ERG89 wrote: »

If barca were "very poor" why didn't they get beat out the gate as they were in bad form going into it & when they are poor they normally get hammered out the gate.

Because Real were just as below par that night. That is the point i am making.

Nalz

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

More amazing is that people can still argue he doesn't do it in the big games.

Muppets. I read not too​ long ago on here a post by a regular poster stating that if Ronaldo left Real Bale could easily achieve his heights and more in terms of goals scoring, assists, threats etc

Not a hope, as decent as Bale is...

Irish_rat

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Agree.I think he would have turned into a better player had he stayed at Spurs and been the main man. He wouldn't have won as much but I think individually his career would have been better.It's such a pity player don't have the balls to want to be the main man at a smaller team and push them towards success.

Absolute ridiculous statement to come out with. He's won 2 champions leagues since going over I think his career can't get any better. Technically very limited in comparison to the guys he's around with but has that strength and pace that Madrid need in games. If he can't improve there where can he?

mickmackey1

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Pele is Pele.3 world cups, 2 Libertadores and 1000 goals

That includes kickabouts in his back garden to be fair.

Irish_rat

Real much the better side tonight, robbed Bayern in the last round though who have been the best side in the competition this year

irishman86

ceegee wrote: »

Out of interest how many full matches of Pele, Cruyff or Beckenbauer have you watched? I'd doubt most posters here have seen more than a handful of world cup matches.
People get slated on here for bigging up young potential signings based on youtube compilations but can class someone from 50 years ago as the best ever based on little more evidence.

Its why I personally will say X player was the best player off all time. Its just not possible for most. The best players Ive ever watched are Ronaldinho/Ronaldo with Zidane/Ronaldo/Messi in no order finishing my top 5.

sReq | uTeK

Some noticeable omissions from tonight match thread. I'm sure they will pop up when Ronaldo has a cup of tea in next week's game. Not like he hasn't earned it.

**** me what a player.

Shanotheslayer

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Some noticeable omissions from tonight match thread. I'm sure they will pop up when Ronaldo has a cup of tea in next week's game. Not like he hasn't earned it.

**** me what a player.

Still waiting for the Golden Miller to pop up and say if hes paying me by Card or Paypal

The_Kew_Tour

Im reserving my judgment on Ronaldo and Messi till they take on the Universe.

The Talking Bread

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Still waiting for the Golden Miller to pop up and say if hes paying me by Card or Paypal

Tell him you want it hand delivered. And 10% interest accumulated for each passing day it takes him to bring it to you!

Shanotheslayer

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Tell him you want it hand delivered. And 10% interest accumulated for each passing day it takes him to bring it to you!

Hoping he offers triple the odds as he scored a hat trick

Billy86

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Still waiting for the Golden Miller to pop up and say if hes paying me by Card or Paypal

In fairness, spectacularly wrong as he was shown last time and this, he did promptly settle the bet which the other poster over the Bayern game.

sReq | uTeK

Would love to see a Monaco, Real final. Two teams going balls out.

DON'T GET me wrong. I'd love to see Juve win something but as a special I'd like to see a 7-5 final on favour of x or y

deaddonkey15

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I wouldn't say they are in fairness.

Beckenbauer and Cryuff changed the way the game was played.Pele and Maradona are widely regarded as the 2 best of all time and there is a good reason for that. Maradona elevated a mediocre team to greatness in the best league in europe and won the world cup and Pele is Pele.3 world cups, 2 Libertadores and 1000 goals speaks for itself.Pele was so good the IOC named him athlete of the century despite him never playing in the Olympics.

Does that not just make him a great goalscorer though? Or does lots of goals only count when it's not Ronaldo?

Shanotheslayer

Billy86 wrote: »

In fairness, spectacularly wrong as he was shown last time and this, he did promptly settle the bet which the other poster over the Bayern game.

Ah I agree. I've seen him around the betting forum also so i imagine it won't be an issue.

user2011

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Wouldn't say Ronaldo is in the top 5 to be fair to him.

Top 5 would probably be Pele,Maradona,Cryuff,Beckenbauer and Messi (In no particualr order).

First time ever there has been such a long standing rivarly between 2 all time greats though. Beckenbauer and Cryuff would have rarely played against each other these guys have been playing against each other at least 2 times a year for almost 10 years.

2 all time greats, your list is missing one?

user2011

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Im reserving my judgment on Ronaldo and Messi till they take on the Universe.

All ready did, they won.

user2011

I have my favourite, he played for united I felt that fan excitement of him scoring the important goals, yet

These two guys have pushed each other to the limits I can recognise and totally appreciate their differences and strength's equally.

They are the best. Can't see it being matched in my life time.

Andersonisgod

By the way, Toni Kroos put in a beautifully complete display tonight, aided by Modric and Isco (for a good amount of the game) the German bosses the match from start to finish and is as classy an operator as they come.

TripleAce

I pick Ronaldo over anyone else for the simple reason we will probably still be watching him playing for the next 6-7 years at high level. His dedication to training is unmatched and will have a 20-year long career at top level, like nobody else before him. I just hope won't score in the final against (hopefully) Juve

Rekop dog

Andersonisgod wrote: »

By the way, Toni Kroos put in a beautifully complete display tonight, aided by Modric and Isco (for a good amount of the game) the German bosses the match from start to finish and is as classy an operator as they come.

Probably pound for pound the best midfielder in the world right now. Bayern haven't quite hit the same heights since his departure and Real have pushed to new levels. His top level trophy haul is very impressive and he's frighteningly only hitting the age were a centre midfielder peaks.

The Golden Miller

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Still waiting for the Golden Miller to pop up and say if hes paying me by Card or Paypal

I was under the impression the bet was not on. After you said you'd take the bet, and I came back with the conditions and said "20 it is", there was no further verification or finalising of the bet. Tbh, I was waiting for a response to my post but got no further reply so assumed it was off. For me that was akin to being in the pub, you saying you'd take a bet, me giving the terms and saying it's 20, but then nothing further like a handshake to make the bet official i.e not actually going through with it

Now I know wires can get crossed and it's not always easy to determine what someone meant over text, so I'll take your word for it that you were honestly under the impression that the bet was on before kick-off? It's just if the shoe was on the other foot, someone could easily pull the above and say they never got back and finalised the bet, so it was never placed etc. I'll give you the benefit if the doubt once you clarify, as I wouldn't like the same done to myself where someone wouldn't pay up

Shanotheslayer

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Still waiting for the Golden Miller to pop up and say if hes paying me by Card or Paypal

I was under the impression the bet was not on. After you said you'd take the bet, and I came back with the conditions and said "20 it is", there was no further verification or finalising of the bet. Tbh, I was waiting for a response to my post but got no further reply so assumed it was off. For me that was akin to being in the pub, you saying you'd take a bet, me giving the terms and saying it's 20, but then nothing further like a handshake to make the bet official i.e not actually going through with it

Now I know wires can get crossed and it's not always easy to determine what someone meant over text, so I'll take your word for it that you were honestly under the impression that the bet was on before kick-off? It's just if the shoe was on the other foot, someone could easily pull the above and say they never got back and finalised the bet, so it was never placed etc. I'll give you the benefit if the doubt once you clarify, as I wouldn't like the same done to myself where someone wouldn't pay up

I can honestly say I didn't see the post mate. Only post I saw was in relation to the pens which I said I would take either way.

To make it fair and due to crossed wires we can say 10 instead of 20? If you responded after the Penalty post and I failed to see.

The Golden Miller

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I can honestly say I didn't see the post mate. Only post I saw was in relation to the pens which I said I would take either way.

To make it fair and due to crossed wires we can say 10 instead of 20? If you responded after the Penalty post and I failed to see.

No, 20 it is since it is now clarified that the bet was on. We can sort the rest out over pm. Fair play on the win

StringerBell

Gotta love Ronaldo.

Shanotheslayer

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I can honestly say I didn't see the post mate. Only post I saw was in relation to the pens which I said I would take either way.

To make it fair and due to crossed wires we can say 10 instead of 20? If you responded after the Penalty post and I failed to see.

No, 20 it is since it is now clarified that the bet was on. We can sort the rest out over pm. Fair play on the win

Fair dues. Thank you. Can I ask why you just didn't lay Anytime for better odds?

The Golden Miller

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Fair dues. Thank you. Can I ask why you just didn't lay Anytime for better odds?

Not much good if you're trying to over-emphasis a point on here ha

monkey9

Any chance you can take this betting nonsense to PM's? No one else needs to read about them.

MisterAnarchy

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Anyone will tell you Barca were very poor that night also and the Real team of tonight would have dispatched them easy enough.

You really don't like Barcelona do you?
Barcelona were not poor that night, they completely bossed the midfield.
Modric and Kroos were very quiet and Busquets, Iniesta and Messi were excellent.

Modric and Kroos had it much easier tonight, as Isco playing instead of Bale, gave them more control.

NIMAN

Rekop dog wrote: »

Probably pound for pound the best midfielder in the world right now. Bayern haven't quite hit the same heights since his departure and Real have pushed to new levels. His top level trophy haul is very impressive and he's frighteningly only hitting the age were a centre midfielder peaks.

Yet hardly got a kick in the Clasico? Madrids midfield looked outclassed that night.

The Talking Bread

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Anyone will tell you Barca were very poor that night also and the Real team of tonight would have dispatched them easy enough.

You really don't like Barcelona do you?
Barcelona were not poor that night, they completely bossed the midfield.
Modric and Kroos were very quiet and Busquets, Iniesta and Messi were excellent.

Modric and Kroos had it much easier tonight, as Isco playing instead of Bale, gave them more control.

Who said I didn't like Barcelona???
I'm not getting into a petty opinion argument.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Irish_rat wrote: »

Absolute ridiculous statement to come out with. He's won 2 champions leagues since going over I think his career can't get any better. Technically very limited in comparison to the guys he's around with but has that strength and pace that Madrid need in games. If he can't improve there where can he?

He could have a better individual career.I'd argue his last season at Spurs was better on an individual level than what he has done at Madrid so far.He's had great moments in Madrid not an unbelievably brilliant season as he had at Spurs.

NIMAN

I think part of his problem was Ronaldo, I think he went out of his way to pass to him and create assists for him instead of taking chances himself.

Its like he was in awe of Ronnie. Almost afraid to try to upstage him.

I think letting him go back to the EPL for HUGE money would be the best move for Madrid. He is not going to be the new Ronaldo when Ronaldo retires. Not a chance.

elefant

There should be a ban in all Barca/Real match discussions of mentioning 'doing it in big matches' right after Ronaldo or Messi score a goal.

When every second post about last night's game seemed to be 'Look at him not doing it in a big match again' you're obviously preaching to the choir.

Giggsy11

In CL QFs, SFs and finals, Ronaldo has scored 35 goals vs Messi's 16.

It's insane how great his goal scoring record is, especially in the best club competition.

Also in 2012, Messi had 4 Ballon D'or's vs 1 to Ronaldo. Now there is a good chance it will be 5 vs 5.

His drive to score goals and to keep himself in top physical condition should be inspiration to any footballer.

Also highest number of goals against single opponent, Ronaldo's 9 vs Bayern and Messi's 9 vs Arsenal.

These 2 players just keep pushing the limits and I'm not sure we will see players like Messi or Ronaldo again for years.

LiamoSail

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

He could have a better individual career.I'd argue his last season at Spurs was better on an individual level than what he has done at Madrid so far.He's had great moments in Madrid not an unbelievably brilliant season as he had at Spurs.

It's a team sport though, not an individual game. Winning titles is what the game is about, not winning PoTY awards. What he would have done at Spurs means nothing relative to what hemhas achieved at Real

Rekop dog

NIMAN wrote: »

Yet hardly got a kick in the Clasico? Madrids midfield looked outclassed that night.

Yet when most rationale people access a player they don't hone in on one single game rather the large sample available from the players career.