2016-17 UEFA Champions League

The Talking Bread

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Time for revolution. Time for change from top to bottom. At Barcelona, the standard can't ever slip to that. I don't just mean in terms of results but I mean in terms of actually enjoying watching this team play because, I fear that without Messi and in its current incarnation, this Barcelona side is not good to watch.

In 1974 the club were brave, they bought Johan Cruyff.

In 1988 the club were brave, they appointed Cruyff as manager and adopted his philosophies throughout the club.

In 2008, faced with a declining team of household names, the club were brave, they appointed Guardiola and they trusted in themselves, their players, their coach.

In 2017, is this club brave enough to do what's needed? To bring the smile back to this club?

I won't talk anymore about this tonight but I'll leave you with this quoute from Johan Cruyff which, after tonight, is more poignant than ever.

Following winning the Champions League at Wembley in 1992:

"And now, you didn’t only win it, but the way you won it. Don’t talk about You: ‘No. no. You won the game. No. No. We enjoy watching. Enjoying a game for Barcelona is much more important than only winning.”

Enjoying a game for Barcelona is much more important than only winning.....

Oh will you ever shut up! I reckon you never kicked a ball in your life! !!!!

LuckyGent88

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

Id say he could be out of a job soon enough too. Lost to bottom of the table at the weekend and have constantly thrown away leads all season. Miles off Bayern who haven't been their usual force this year.

After looking at tonight's highlights, it was just like how the season has gone really. Dominating most teams but not taking the chances. Have to be clinical when most teams are defensive against you.

Augbanayang missed 2 sitters and a penalty and they missed a member of other chances.

The Golden Miller

Predictable enough result in the PSG-Barca game tonight. Barca haven't been at the races all season. To play in the manner they do and win a Champions League it has to be 10/10 every time at this level. A drop off in intensity, ball possession and penetration while playing that brand of football and teams playing that style become more vulnerable than most. We seen it in 2013 against Bayern, and in turn happened to Bayern against Madrid. And happened to Spain

As for the other game, I'd still expect Dortmund to turn it around.

Pighead

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Time for revolution. Time for change from top to bottom. At Barcelona, the standard can't ever slip to that. I don't just mean in terms of results but I mean in terms of actually enjoying watching this team play because, I fear that without Messi and in its current incarnation, this Barcelona side is not good to watch.

In 1974 the club were brave, they bought Johan Cruyff.

In 1988 the club were brave, they appointed Cruyff as manager and adopted his philosophies throughout the club.

In 2008, faced with a declining team of household names, the club were brave, they appointed Guardiola and they trusted in themselves, their players, their coach.

In 2017, is this club brave enough to do what's needed? To bring the smile back to this club?

I won't talk anymore about this tonight but I'll leave you with this quoute from Johan Cruyff which, after tonight, is more poignant than ever.

Following winning the Champions League at Wembley in 1992:

"And now, you didn’t only win it, but the way you won it. Don’t talk about You: ‘No. no. You won the game. No. No. We enjoy watching. Enjoying a game for Barcelona is much more important than only winning.”

Enjoying a game for Barcelona is much more important than only winning.....

I guess nine months is a long time in football.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99806303&postcount=2055

In, out, shake it all about.

You'd have to ask why PSG aren't running away with the French league when you see a performance like that. They've been pretty patchy this season.

martyos121

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Predictable enough result in the PSG-Barca game tonight.

:rolleyes:

KaiserGunner

As an Arsenal fan PSG have been by far the best team that we have played all season, don't know how they didn't beat us in the two games. So to see them destroy a team like Barcelona is pretty impressive. It's credit to the French league that they aren't running away with it. Just shows how good Monaco are as well, will be a very tough game for Man City in that tie.

Andersonisgod

Pighead wrote: »

I guess nine months is a long time in football.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99806303&postcount=2055

In, out, shake it all about.

You'd have to ask why PSG aren't running away with the French league when you see a performance like that. They've been pretty patchy this season.

I'll support any Barcelona coach. At times that enthusiasm is unfortunately misplaced and the brilliance of Messi and Suarez has masked glaring deficiencies in this team. It's wrong, it's not at the standard expected of Barcelona and, even worse, it's not fun to watch. Give me Cruyff, give me Guardiola, give me Xavi Hernandez.

sReq | uTeK

Pighead wrote: »

I guess nine months is a long time in football.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99806303&postcount=2055

In, out, shake it all about.

You'd have to ask why PSG aren't running away with the French league when you see a performance like that. They've been pretty patchy this season.

Can we sticky this.

Andersonisgod

Sergio Busquets: "it's not about the attitude, it was a football thing, PSG were better tactically."

That is damning.

Pighead

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I'll support any Barcelona coach. At times that enthusiasm is unfortunately misplaced and the brilliance of Messi and Suarez has masked glaring deficiencies in this team. It's wrong, it's not at the standard expected of Barcelona and, even worse, it's not fun to watch. Give me Cruyff, give me Guardiola, give me Xavi Hernandez.

Your commentary this season doesn't support the claim that you haven't been enjoying the football Barca play. You have been glowing in your praise of them and when they lose you haven't criticised the manager or players. Instead you've been banging on about foul play and an agenda at play by officials to halt Barca in their tracks. Tonight is pretty much the first time all season you've said the football is poor and the manager is out of his depth.

Andersonisgod

Pighead wrote: »

Your commentary this season doesn't support the claim that you haven't been enjoying the football Barca play. You have been glowing in your praise of them and when they lose you haven't criticised the manager or players. Instead you've been banging on about foul play and an agenda at play by officials to halt Barca in their tracks. Tonight is pretty much the first time all season you've said the football is poor and the manager is out of his depth.

I leave my criticisms for elsewhere where the spotlight upon myself isn't quite so ferocious. Check through the thread tonight and read some of the personal digs at me, instead of comments about the game. Impossible to post in a balanced manner against that backdrop.

Anyway, this isn't the Andersonisgod 2016/2017 thread (despite some of the comments here tonight) it's the Champions League thread so I'm hoping to refrain from talking too much about myself (which is why I originally left the thread, though I was peeved enough by 1 comment particularly to be tempted back in) so now I'm gonna leave again.

iroced

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Predictable enough result in the PSG-Barca game tonight. Barca haven't been at the races all season. To play in the manner they do and win a Champions League it has to be 10/10 every time at this level. A drop off in intensity, ball possession and penetration while playing that brand of football and teams playing that style become more vulnerable than most. We seen it in 2013 against Bayern, and in turn happened to Bayern against Madrid. And happened to Spain

No. No one expected nor predicted this result beforehand. And no one could have guessed it. If you've watched just a couple of PSG latest games in L1 you'd see it as obvious as it is. PSG is no Bayern too. They're a team in reconstruction with Emery and it clicked on with green lights everywhere tonight for the first time ever.

Pighead wrote: »

You'd have to ask why PSG aren't running away with the French league when you see a performance like that. They've been pretty patchy this season.

They never put that level of intensity in L1 this year. They also probably know they have some margin. Though they certainly did not expect Monaco and most importantly Nice to have such seasons so far. And again they're in reconstruction phase with Emery. It takes time to change your way of playing. Tonight is the first time they accepted Emery way that much and with that level of intensity for 90 min.

KaiserGunner wrote: »

As an Arsenal fan PSG have been by far the best team that we have played all season, don't know how they didn't beat us in the two games. So to see them destroy a team like Barcelona is pretty impressive. It's credit to the French league that they aren't running away with it. Just shows how good Monaco are as well, will be a very tough game for Man City in that tie.

Credit to Monaco & Nice mainly. Most teams (mine included and despite beating PSG) don't offer very much. That said, with what PSG has become, for many teams it is the game of the season so they give it more than they usually do.

Now coming back to the Arsenal game. The difference with tonight is a couple more months of getting used to Emery "method" .

The Golden Miller

iroced wrote: »

No. No one expected nor predicted this result beforehand. And no one could have guessed it. If you've watched just a couple of PSG latest games in L1 you'd see it as obvious as it is. PSG is no Bayern too. They're a team in reconstruction with Emery and it clicked on with green lights everywhere tonight for the first time ever.

The result flattered PSG tonight. PSG are no Bayern circa 2013, but it didn't need a great team to do to Barca what Bayern done to them before, and what Madrid did to Bayern a year later. I said a few months back on this thread that Barca would struggle big time if they didn't vastly improve and clearly they haven't. Only for Messi they would be even further behind in La Liga. Until they get their act together they are an easy team to play at the moment. Sit back and hit them on the counter while man marking Messi. It's all sideways passing and blunt attacks with no tempo, intent or penetration. Football is always cyclical, and Barca's troughs and peaks will be greater than anyone else's due to how they play

Shanotheslayer

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Predictable enough result in the PSG-Barca game tonight.

I'm sure you've a beautiful betting slip to back this up because PSG were a very generous price :rolleyes:

The Golden Miller

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I'm sure you've a beautiful betting slip to back this up because PSG were a very generous price :rolleyes:

https://gyazo.com/934d772fee1cc77afdb646b65746d6ab. Granted, I had both to score, but it was to be expected PSG would win

iroced

The Golden Miller wrote: »

The result flattered PSG tonight. PSG are no Bayern circa 2013, but it didn't need a great team to do to Barca what Bayern done to them before, and what Madrid did to Bayern a year later. I said a few months back on this thread that Barca would struggle big time if they didn't vastly improve and clearly they haven't. Only for Messi they would be even further behind in La Liga. Until they get their act together they are an easy team to play at the moment. Sit back and hit them on the counter while man marking Messi. It's all sideways passing and blunt attacks with no tempo, intent or penetration. Football is always cyclical, and Barca's troughs and peaks will be greater than anyone else's due to how they play

I agree with this. You could add ageing Iniesta & Busquets and the lack of Rakitic in midfield too. Maybe also more hunger in this PSG team than in Barça's one who've already won so much silverware.

It's the "predictable enough" part I do not agree with considering it ended 4-0 for PSG. Predictable win why not. But not predictable 4-0 .

sReq | uTeK

Neymar was the only player that had a game. Messi lost the ball for the 2nd goal in 38 minutes and stood there watching 4 PSG players attack. Disgraceful attitude

**** me Veratti is some player

Shanotheslayer

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I'm sure you've a beautiful betting slip to back this up because PSG were a very generous price :rolleyes:

https://gyazo.com/934d772fee1cc77afdb646b65746d6ab. Granted, I had both to score, but it was to be expected PSG would win

Unlucky not to land that. Don't know why you didn't take PSG win at 3.3 as well. I thought the odds were high myself probably based on league form.

I disagree it was 'expected' given they weren't the bookies favourite

The Golden Miller

iroced wrote: »

It's the "predictable enough" part I do not agree with considering it ended 4-0 for PSG. Predictable win why not. But not predictable 4-0 .

Well we've seen Barca hammered before. Same with Bayern in their first season trying to play tiki-taka. Same with Spain. The win was predictable since Barca are well below their best and the manner they play in, easy to counter. PSG were always going to set up in one way, which isn't how they normally play, so it made them look world beaters. A good defence like Juve or Monaco could just as easily do to them what they did to Barca tonight, when the onus is on PSG to bring the game to the opposition ( I suspect a strong counter attacking team will win it this year, probably Juve, but possibly Monaco or Atletico). Of course, any exact result is not predictable, I just didn't think it was surprising in the least considering we've seen below par tiki-taka teams ripped apart on the counter before.

Arghus

Well that was a one sided thrashing.

iroced

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Well we've seen Barca hammered before. Same with Bayern in their first season trying to play tiki-taka. Same with Spain. The win was predictable since Barca are well below their best and the manner they play in, easy to counter. The result not surprising, hence the "predictable enough" comment. Of course, any exact result is not predictable

Yeah but that's only looking at the Barça side of the game. PSG did not show anything this season to let us imagine such thrashing. Even their 2 good games against Arsenal, they were naive and lacked efficiency. Eeven in L1 they just had 1 win against the top sides (Monaco, Nice, Lyon, Marseille). They were doing better lately but L1 standard. So for such a high intensity display coupled with cold blood finish tonight to happen was quite some stretch. In a way, I'd have rather backed Monaco who are solid at the back and scoring for fun in L1 than PSG to have such a game.

The Golden Miller

iroced wrote: »

Yeah but that's only looking at the Barça side of the game. PSG did not show anything this season to let us imagine such thrashing. Even their 2 good games against Arsenal, they were naive and lacked efficiency. Eeven in L1 they just had 1 win against the top sides (Monaco, Nice, Lyon, Marseille). They were doing better lately but L1 standard. So for such a high intensity display coupled with cold blood finish tonight to happen was quite some stretch. In a way, I'd have rather backed Monaco who are solid at the back and scoring for fun in L1 than PSG to have such a game.

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Well we've seen Barca hammered before. Same with Bayern in their first season trying to play tiki-taka. Same with Spain. The win was predictable since Barca are well below their best and the manner they play in, easy to counter. PSG were always going to set up in one way, which isn't how they normally play, so it made them look world beaters. A good defence like Juve or Monaco could just as easily do to them what they did to Barca tonight, when the onus is on PSG to bring the game to the opposition ( I suspect a strong counter attacking team will win it this year, probably Juve, but possibly Monaco or Atletico). Of course, any exact result is not predictable, I just didn't think it was surprising in the least considering we've seen below par tiki-taka teams ripped apart on the counter before.

Sorry, edited my post. PSG were always going to be forced to play a certain game tonight. Also, we see these sporadic hidings of below par tiki-taka teams on the biggest occasions because teams are fired up and only need to play to 110% on a one off occassion

Sugarlumps

Outstanding game, they got stuffed. I'd welcome either of the two French sides to win it.

inforfun

Instead of going the Real way by buying players they dont really need for money they dont really have, they should have stayed more focused on La Masia.

Barcelona B used to be a force in the Segunda Division and if it wasnt for rules preventing it, might have won promotion a few times. Last season they finished mid table Segunda B, doing better now, top of the league.

Instead they started spending €80 million on Suarez after letting Sanchez go for 45.
Players that anyone could see were getting near there retirement were never adequately replaced or in any case not in time.

Could be tough end of the season for them. Any half decent team in La Liga that had their arses spanked over the years might feel there is some pay back to be done.

No come on Sevilla, win the Cup With The Big Ears, as Leo Beenhakker used to call it.

Jan_de_Bakker

THIS IS NOT THE BARCA

Oh shut the f*ck up !! just admit it when ye were outplayed and outclassed ... they are lucky they didn't lose 8-0 ffs!!

Bunch of frauds...

klose

Some upturn in cavani for psg since ibra left, jaysus there were times he couldn't hit a barn door for em.

ebbsy

Without a fit and motivated Messi, Barca are not the same.

GavRedKing

I seen the extended highlights of the Dortmund game and its a miracle that they didnt score against Benfica. I'd still fancy them to go through, between some awful misses and excellent goalkeeping last night they couldnt get the away goal but they should have enough to get passed Benfica in Dortmund.

iroced

klose wrote: »

Some upturn in cavani for psg since ibra left, jaysus there were times he couldn't hit a barn door for em.

Well you said it all, Ibra left. As great and skillful a player he is, Ibra is a nemesis for the collective play of the teams he plays for. Too much ego kills it.

ArmaniJeanss

Jan_de_Bakker wrote: »

"THIS IS NOT THE BARCA"

Oh shut the f*ck up !! just admit it when ye were outplayed and outclassed ... they are lucky they didn't lose 8-0 ffs!!

Bunch of frauds...

Good chance the intended meaning of the headline is more subtle and nuanced than your simple direct translation.

byronbay2

klose wrote: »

Some upturn in cavani for psg since ibra left, jaysus there were times he couldn't hit a barn door for em.

Still misses a lot of chances. Took his goal well last night but missed 2 or 3 great chances too. Has been like this since forever.

The Talking Bread

iroced wrote: »

klose wrote: »

Some upturn in cavani for psg since ibra left, jaysus there were times he couldn't hit a barn door for em.

Well you said it all, Ibra left. As great and skillful a player he is, Ibra is a nemesis for the collective play of the teams he plays for. Too much ego kills it.

Nonsense! That's a silly cliché! Ibra works extremely hard but is intelligent enough to know the appropriate trade offs when it comes to getting the most out of himself and sacrificing same for the team.
Have you been watching United lately? Yes he can be selfish, but not so much that it destroys the balance of teamwork. Not all the time!

bucketybuck

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Have you been watching United lately? Yes he can be selfish, but not so much that it destroys the balance of teamwork. Not all the time!

Yet United have scored markedly less goals than their rivals and have struggled with taking chances all season to the point that it is the major reason they are not comfortably in the top four.

Its not a popular view because Zlatans personal goal record is good, but I believe there is an issue there and it is not insignificant.

GLaDOS

Surely part of the reason Cavani is doing so well in the absence of Ibra is he is playing centrally as opposed to out wide?

mickmackey1

bucketybuck wrote: »

Yet United have scored markedly less goals than their rivals and have struggled with taking chances all season to the point that it is the major reason they are not comfortably in the top four.

Its not a popular view because Zlatans personal goal record is good, but I believe there is an issue there and it is not insignificant.

Good point, just because a man is individually succesful does not mean the team would not do better without him.

sReq | uTeK

iroced wrote: »

Well you said it all, Ibra left. As great and skillful a player he is, Ibra is a nemesis for the collective play of the teams he plays for. Too much ego kills it.

If that's the case get rid of Messi and Ronaldo too. I mean it's a disgrace that 34 year old managed 49 goals in the calendar year and at 35 is 1 goal off the top scorers chart in supposedly the hardest league in English football. And this all with his team mates stating what a joy he is to be around.

NOW HEY. Don't let logic and the fact that he has moved from essentially an inside forward to a central striker is the real reason he's getting more goals and looks more confident.

But hey, again I think Suarez should be benched for Uruguay so we can facilitate Cavanni up top top.

TLDR: Of course you're going to be happy playing in the position you want. Sadly when someone is better than you you play where you can to get game time

Andersonisgod

Love it when, on a match day, the CL thread becomes about a team aren't in the CL and haven't been in the knockout stages in years.

greendom

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Good chance the intended meaning of the headline is more subtle and nuanced than your simple direct translation.

can you point out the nuance - I really don't see it - thanks!

bucketybuck

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Love it when, on a match day, the CL thread becomes about a team aren't in the CL and haven't been in the knockout stages in years.

Better than the thread being all about the usual troll.

Donnielighto

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Love it when, on a match day, the CL thread becomes about a team aren't in the CL and haven't been in the knockout stages in years.

It's about ibras impact on page and howuch cavani benefited from it during the game that was on last night, did you miss it?

mansize

Have I stumbled into the Europa Leage thread???

Greetings from a mild sunny Munich btw

The Talking Bread

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Love it when, on a match day, the CL thread becomes about a team aren't in the CL and haven't been in the knockout stages in years.

Thought you said you left the thread, no? Anyway contribute then if your cant acknowledge how the reference to Ibra came up. Oh but Don't forget no mention of a certain Catalan team that are out now !

mansize

On a point of clarification, FC Barcelona are still in the UCL.

Man Und etc are not

The Talking Bread

Grow up.

Brendan Flowers

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Love it when, on a match day, the CL thread becomes about a team aren't in the CL and haven't been in the knockout stages in years.

Did you have the same concern last night when Post #1338 bizarrely dragged Jose Mourinho's name into a point being made about a change being needed at Barcelona? Oh no wait, you wouldn't would you since it was yourself that made that post :rolleyes:

GavRedKing

All the English sides will be out of the UCL by the end of this round anyway so the arguments are kind of pointless.

Giggsy11

GavRedKing wrote: »

All the English sides will be out of the UCL by the end of this round anyway so the arguments are kind of pointless.

Let the Arsenal fans have their 2 mins of fame

greendom

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Let the Arsenal fans have their 2 mins of fame

How's 6th place - settled in yet ?

Giggsy11

greendom wrote: »

How's 6th place - settled in yet ?

From around 10 points behind 4th position to just 4 points from 2nd position and 2 points from 4th is not a bad form, also one more cup finals and still in 2 more cup competitions.

So yeah things are going well.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

Yet United have scored markedly less goals than their rivals and have struggled with taking chances all season to the point that it is the major reason they are not comfortably in the top four.

Its not a popular view because Zlatans personal goal record is good, but I believe there is an issue there and it is not insignificant.

Zlatan has created the most big chances in the United squad this year and is joint 2nd in assists