2016-17 UEFA Champions League

greendom

Giggsy11 wrote: »

From around 10 points behind 4th position to just 4 points from 2nd position and 2 points from 4th is not a bad form, also one more cup finals and still in 2 more cup competitions.

So yeah things are going well.

Enjoy!

Giggsy11

greendom wrote: »

Enjoy!

You too with Wenger for few more years.

jmayo

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Time for revolution. Time for change from top to bottom. At Barcelona, the standard can't ever slip to that. I don't just mean in terms of results but I mean in terms of actually enjoying watching this team play because, I fear that without Messi and in its current incarnation, this Barcelona side is not good to watch.

In 1974 the club were brave, they bought Johan Cruyff.

In 1988 the club were brave, they appointed Cruyff as manager and adopted his philosophies throughout the club.


In 2008, faced with a declining team of household names, the club were brave, they appointed Guardiola and they trusted in themselves, their players, their coach.

In 2017, is this club brave enough to do what's needed? To bring the smile back to this club?

I won't talk anymore about this tonight but I'll leave you with this quoute from Johan Cruyff which, after tonight, is more poignant than ever.

Following winning the Champions League at Wembley in 1992:

"And now, you didn’t only win it, but the way you won it. Don’t talk about You: ‘No. no. You won the game. No. No. We enjoy watching. Enjoying a game for Barcelona is much more important than only winning.”

Enjoying a game for Barcelona is much more important than only winning.....

I just knew after last night you would be talking some waffle.

First off it was not the Champions League until 1993 final. :rolleyes:

Ogh and for all the waffle about how they won it the right way, they won it with Ronald Koeman free kick in second half of extra time.
And if anything I reckon the awarding of the free kick was generous.

Oh and if you go back further that season they only got through second round on away goals rule against mighty Kaiserslautern.
And in the following Group Stage they faced the mighty Sparta Prague, Benfica and Dynamo Kiev.

You would swear no other club have been brave in decisions or implemented anything that has helped change and revolutionise football.

And how the fook is it brave buying one of the best footballers in the world if you can afford it. :rolleyes:

He was part of the great AJax side that had won three European Cups in a row and he had won Ballon d'Or in 1971 and 1973.

Also they bought him in 1973 not 1974.

And how was brave appointing him coach when he had been managing Ajax for three years and led them to a European trophy, The Cup Winners Cup ?

Oh and for your information, Barcelona for such a vaunted club did little in Europe for a lot of their history.
4 of their European Cups/CLs have been won in the last 12 years.
Up to their 1989 win they had been in only two other top flight finals.

KaiserGunner

GavRedKing wrote: »

All the English sides will be out of the UCL by the end of this round anyway so the arguments are kind of pointless.

Luckily football isn't won or lost on paper. You may be right, but it's definitely not a given. Two average teams in Liverpool (2005) and Chelsea (2012) won the competition when they were poor in the league 5th place and 6th place finish respectively. So I wouldn't be counting any chickens yet before a ball is kicked in them ties.

ERG89

I hope Napoli don't choke tonight. If they play to form they might knock out Real. Few players in Europe playing as well as Mertens right now. I worry they will screw up like they tend to do under pressure

Sugarlumps

Always found Bayern to be uppity. Arsenal have got to go for it tonight. Every chance they can claw something from tonight's fixture.

GavRedKing

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Luckily football isn't won or lost on paper. You may be right, but it's definitely not a given. Two average teams in Liverpool (2005) and Chelsea (2012) won the competition when they were poor in the league 5th place and 6th place finish respectively. So I wouldn't be counting any chickens yet before a ball is kicked in them ties.

You're right, nothing is won on paper but all 3 English sides, if you ignore the English bias in the media, wouldnt be favourites to beat the sides they are playing, IMO, again, thats on paper but theres a reason for that, Sevilla and Munich are better than Leicester and Arsenal, while Monaco have beaten Spurs home and away, who were up until Monday night, ahead of City in the league, so City wont have it all there own way in that game.

Quazzie

Giggsy11 wrote: »

From around 10 points behind 4th position to just 4 points from 2nd position and 2 points from 4th is not a bad form, also one more cup finals and still in 2 more cup competitions.

So yeah things are going well.

Wow. you moved up zero positions in the league. Don't let all that success go to your head now!

Giggsy11

Quazzie wrote: »

Wow. you moved up zero positions in the league. Don't let all that success go to your head now!

And Arsenal dropped 2 positions.

The_Kew_Tour

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Enjoying a game for Barcelona is much more important than only winning.....

Sure ye put a smile on most peoples faces last night.

No need to feel so down..

Nice one

greendom

Giggsy11 wrote: »

You too with Wenger for few more years.

I wonder whether the mess United made of replacing Fergie has put our board off replacing Arsene!

Maximus Alexander

greendom wrote: »

I wonder whether the mess United made of replacing Fergie has put our board off replacing Arsene!

Yeah they wouldn't want to risk not winning the league for the next few years. Oh wait.

KaiserGunner

jmayo wrote: »

Oh and for your information, Barcelona for such a vaunted club did little in Europe for a lot of their history.
4 of their European Cups/CLs have been won in the last 12 years.
Up to their 1989 win they had been in only two other top flight finals.

Yeah it's amazing when you think about it. Back in May 2006 Arsenal were 15 mins away from their first ever European cup and thus matching the Mighty Barcelona in European cups won. Obviously Barcelona won it in the end winning their second European cup.

Just goes to show the fortunes on the pitch since. Barcelona are this European juggernaut with multiple European cups since and Arsenal are regularly ridiculed about their European pedigree. A decade is a long time in football.

greendom

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Yeah they wouldn't want to risk not winning the league for the next few years. Oh wait.

I imagine you may have an idea of how the Arsenal board works. The financial reward of reaching the Champions League is considered a success.

Be interesting to see what happens if we do miss out this year.

The Golden Miller

ERG89 wrote: »

I hope Napoli don't choke tonight. If they play to form they might knock out Real. Few players in Europe playing as well as Mertens right now. I worry they will screw up like they tend to do under pressure

You'd expect Napoli to qualify. They are more clinical in terms of converting their chances as of late, something they were struggling with before. Madrid are a fairly average side at the moment and Osasuna should have beat them at the weekend. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if Napoli went back to their old ways on the big stage and create chance after chance and going so close time and again only to blow it, similar to Roma v Madrid in the group stages, with Madrid getting a cheap goal or two that isn't wholly deserved. But we'll see I guess

The Golden Miller

GavRedKing wrote: »

You're right, nothing is won on paper but all 3 English sides, if you ignore the English bias in the media, wouldnt be favourites to beat the sides they are playing, IMO, again, thats on paper but theres a reason for that, Sevilla and Munich are better than Leicester and Arsenal, while Monaco have beaten Spurs home and away, who were up until Monday night, ahead of City in the league, so City wont have it all there own way in that game.

I'd fully expect Monaco to do a clinical job on Man City. City are too flakey, disjointed and headless and could be ripped apart by Monaco, similar to Spurs. Although if Arsenal are up for it, they could take Bayern....another team all over the place and without real direction at the moment

The Golden Miller

greendom wrote: »

can you point out the nuance - I really don't see it - thanks!

Is it not obvious? Although it is Barca, it's not the Barca we've come to know and expect

jamescd

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I'd fully expect Monaco to do a clinical job on Man City. City are too flakey, disjointed and headless and could be ripped apart by Monaco, similar to Spurs. Although if Arsenal are up for it, they could take Bayern....another team all over the place and without real direction at the moment

And Arsenal do? :pac: Between the two of them, I would say Arsenal are far and away the team more lacking in direction.

I'm an Arsenal fan but I'm just hoping it's not too much of a heavy defeat so the 2nd leg at the Emirates is not a dead rubber like the Barca - PSG game.

The Golden Miller

jamescd wrote: »

And Arsenal do? :pac: Between the two of them, I would say Arsenal are far and away the team more lacking in direction.

I'm an Arsenal fan but I'm just hoping it's not too much of a heavy defeat so the 2nd leg at the Emirates is not a dead rubber like the Barca - PSG game.

Yes. Arsenal aren't that good, but generally we know what to expect and how they'll set up. Bayern have the better players but are disjointed and lack direction due to the Guardiola hangover of playing tiki-taka fooball. It will be touch and go. I wouldn't be overly confident on either team tbh

The Talking Bread

GavRedKing wrote: »

You're right, nothing is won on paper but all 3 English sides, if you ignore the English bias in the media, wouldnt be favourites to beat the sides they are playing, IMO, again, thats on paper but theres a reason for that, Sevilla and Munich are better than Leicester and Arsenal, while Monaco have beaten Spurs home and away, who were up until Monday night, ahead of City in the league, so City wont have it all there own way in that game.

Man City are very much favourites so if you are so confident Monaco will go through, you have plenty of bookie chalk to tempt you to put your money where you mouth is!

FWIW, I genuinely can't call it but with a head on the block, I wouldn't back against City.

GavRedKing

Ancelottis bread and butter is European football, hes got a poor league title ratio in his career when you consider whos hes managed but his UCL record is excellent.

The Golden Miller

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Man City are very much favourites so if you are so confident Monaco will go through, you have plenty of bookie chalk to tempt you to put your money where you mouth is!

FWIW, I genuinely can't call it but with a head on the block, I wouldn't back against City.

Yes, because they've been so consistent this year they'd fill anyone with confidence. They will be playing straight into Monaco's hands

monkey9

Yeah, i can see Monaco knocking out City. Arsenal might just pull off a surprise.

The Talking Bread

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Yes, because they've been so consistent this year they'd fill anyone with confidence. They will be playing straight into Monaco's hands

Is it always so black and white with you?! Who said they filled me with confidence, indeed I pointed out clearly neither team would for different reasons.

The Golden Miller

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Is it always so black and white with you?! Who said they filled me with confidence, indeed I pointed out clearly neither team would for different reasons.

I never said they filled you with confidence in particular, it was a turn of phrase

iroced

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Nonsense! That's a silly cliché! Ibra works extremely hard but is intelligent enough to know the appropriate trade offs when it comes to getting the most out of himself and sacrificing same for the team.
Have you been watching United lately? Yes he can be selfish, but not so much that it destroys the balance of teamwork. Not all the time!

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

If that's the case get rid of Messi and Ronaldo too. I mean it's a disgrace that 34 year old managed 49 goals in the calendar year and at 35 is 1 goal off the top scorers chart in supposedly the hardest league in English football. And this all with his team mates stating what a joy he is to be around.

NOW HEY. Don't let logic and the fact that he has moved from essentially an inside forward to a central striker is the real reason he's getting more goals and looks more confident.

But hey, again I think Suarez should be benched for Uruguay so we can facilitate Cavanni up top top.

TLDR: Of course you're going to be happy playing in the position you want. Sadly when someone is better than you you play where you can to get game time

Ibra is a selfish arrogant player who only cares about himself. His declaration while at PSG were pathetically comical when he was considering himself the best ever player the club had and his time there the best ever period PSG got.

He is an exceptionally skilled player, particularly for his size. But he never integrated well with the collective play of any team he played for. He vampirises the playing around himself. Such that the team ends up depending on himself. Problem is he's never been there in the latter stages of the CL. And that's logical. No player bar maybe Maradona has ever won such an important trophy by himself. Even Messi. Messi greatest seasons were with the Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta trio at his best. Ditto Ronaldo. Sergio Ramos is as important a player for Real Madrid. And if you really wanna go the comparison route with these 2, well, 1) Ibra has never been as prolific as these 2, particulalrly in the CL ; 2) even them made more efforts than him for their team, it's particularly blatant for Messi lately who's been almost playing like a number 10 at times.

Is it only a coincidence Inter won the CL when he left? Is it only a coincidence the year he was in the great Guardiola's Barça they did not win the CL while they were dominating Europe and won it just before and right after his passage at the club? Is it only a coincidence Qatari's PSG best 2 games were without him (the 2-2 in Stamford Bridge where he only contributed in getting sent off and yesterday where the collective play of the team was the best we've seen from this recent PSG team)?

Now you can throw at me all the domestic titles he's won. All the goals he scored. He always does (he's a great fantasyfootball pick in a way ). You could also note that it often was in a team over-dominating its championship. Admittedly he was a part of that domination. But I never saw him sacrifice himself like Eto'O did for Inter in their heroic second leg in Camp Nou. I never saw him put his ego down to integrate with Messi's Barça. And if you want a comparison, Thierry Henry did and accepted to be a player in the shadow for Barça. And surprise surprise Barça won everything this very year.

GreNoLi

Putting my neck on the line and backing home wins tonight.

Harry Palmr

FC Bayern München
✔
@FCBayern

Die Aufstellung ist da: Neuer - Lahm, Hummels, Martínez, Alaba - Xabi Alonso, Vidal - Robben, Thiago, Costa - Lewandowski.

Mr.Nice Guy

Bayern and Arsenal teams:

Bayern Munich XI: Neuer; Lahm, Hummels, Martinez, Alaba; Alonso, Vidal; Robben, Thiago, Costa; Lewandowski.

Arsenal XI: Ospina; Bellerin, Mustafi, Koscielny, Gibbs; Xhaka, Coquelin; Oxlade-Chamberlain, Ozil, Iwobi; Sanchez.

Doesn't look a great team selection from Arsenal. Ospina over Cech? I wouldn't be surprised if Arsenal get walloped tonight.

Johner

3-0 Bayern.

3-1 Real.

GreNoLi

Ospina's the right call but that arsenal midfield looks ropey, that bayern team ain't exactly spring chickens, 2-1 bayern.

klose

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Bayern and Arsenal teams:



Doesn't look a great team selection from Arsenal. Ospina over Cech? I wouldn't be surprised if Arsenal get walloped tonight.

Cech is hardly having a stormer of a season and ospina plays pretty much every game in the cups iirc.

Mr.Nice Guy

klose wrote: »

Cech is hardly having a stormer of a season and ospina plays pretty much every game in the cups iirc.

You're right Cech hasn't been in good form but I feel if the plan was to play Ospina in this tie then Cech should have been dropped sooner to give Ospina a run of games. Tough situation to be thrown into against one of the world's best strikers.

klose

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

You're right Cech hasn't been in good form but I feel if the plan was to play Ospina in this tie then Cech should have been dropped sooner to give Ospina a run of games. Tough situation to be thrown into against one of the world's best strikers.

True, tough gig for ospina to step in for. Not sure I agree on cup keepers, think it's one position you don't really wanna be chopping and changing then again if you want to have a somewhat good second choice keeper I guess you have to keep them sweet with cup competitions.

GavRedKing

I'm surprised Arsenal didnt play with Welbeck over Iwobi who at this level has vastly more experience and could serve them better from the start.

Agent Coulson

Seriously why does Wender drop Cech for these hugely important European games and not drop him from the league games at least to give Ospina a game or two preparation.

KERSPLAT!

Muller, I'd say he'd be some craic out on the tear!

LuckyGent88

Belter

Horrendous defending. Turning him towards goal and onto his good foot!!!

Mr.Nice Guy

F*cking hell, what a goal.

JPA

Boom!

Giggsy11

Arsenal parked the bus but that was just superb from Robben.

Andersonisgod

Same thing every year.

GreNoLi

Robben cuts in on his left foot, nobody would've predicted that, 1-0.

ollie1

Absolute cracker that was from Robben some strike..

KERSPLAT!

Boom. 1-0 Bayern. Great goal but what the feck were they at letting him get a shot off so easy.

Johner

Cracking goal from Insigne, poor from Navas though.

Agent Coulson

A great shot and goal.


But the Arsenal defence just opened up and let him in for a free shot.

SlickRic

Brilliant goal, but that is fúcking horrendous by Coquelin. His needless steps too far across when he should know where Robben wants to go was just awful.

Johner

And a super goal from Robben.

SlickRic

SlickRic wrote: »

Brilliant goal, but that is fúcking horrendous by Coquelin. His needless steps too far across when he should know where Robben wants to go was just awful.

So so so bad. no idea what he was thinking