2016-17 UEFA Champions League

764dak

Next week's matches seem kinda lame.

Giggsy11

Coq won 0 tackles and completed just 6 passes in 77 mins. That's atrocious.

mansize

Surely Chelsea would take Kos, unless their CBs have suddenly improved beyond recognition???

Turtwig

mansize wrote: »

Surely Chelsea would take Kos, unless their CBs have suddenly improved beyond recognition???

Think many a club would take kos.

KaiserGunner

mansize wrote: »

Surely Chelsea would take Kos, unless their CBs have suddenly improved beyond recognition???

What has this got to do with anything? Why would Arsenal sell their best (only competent) centre back to Chelsea?

Jelle1880

KaiserGunner wrote: »

What has this got to do with anything? Why would Arsenal sell their best (only competent) centre back to Chelsea?

Because it's not just up to them ? If Koscielny could be tempted by Chelsea there won't be too much Arsenal can do about it.

sReq | uTeK

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Because it's not just up to them ? If Koscielny could be tempted by Chelsea there won't be too much Arsenal can do about it.

Correct, people think clubs hold the power, but its players by and large. Yes clubs with stupid amounts of money can send someone down to the reserves to rot, but by in large clubs are run by businessmen not managers.

If a player is kicking up a fuss and is worth a lot of money the club has two options.

Sell and Cash in and replace
Let him rot in the reserves and go on a free.
Either way the club loses and the player ultimately gains. If he is left to rot he will normally find a club for a large signing on fee, if hes left rot for a period of time and then sold the club has lost money. There is also the bad publicity element and the disconnect it could cause within the team.

You have players routinely signing contracts with clubs just so the club gets a bit more money for them. I mean look at the case in point of Griezman (SP). He's just signed a 5 year deal with Madrid in the summer, we all know it's a farce and the likelyhood is he will be gone in the summer. But look he gets a bumper pay rise for a year, these wages then get increased again by a factor of x when he joins a new club. It's a lot easier for a player to negotiate up to 250k+ when they're on 120k as apposed to 50k.. And the club get a nice new buyout clause that pays the wages and then some to replace.

However, ultimately I'd love to see clubs enforce contracts. I'd love to see clubs leave players in the reserves and set a precedent that if you don't break your bollix for the team you can go swan it somewhere in the doldrums. It would make the game better and would take the power away from the players (which I think they have too much of) and give it back to the clubs.

KaiserGunner

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Because it's not just up to them ? If Koscielny could be tempted by Chelsea there won't be too much Arsenal can do about it.

Yeah my issue with his post was the randomness of it. As far as I know Koscielny hasn't been linked with Chelsea, just seemed like a throwaway comment with absolutely no relevance.

GavRedKing

mansize wrote: »

Surely Chelsea would take Kos, unless their CBs have suddenly improved beyond recognition???

If we're cherry picking Arsenal players, it would be Sanchez, then Bellerin I'd take before Koscielny.

None of the baove three though will cross the divide so its really a moot argument.

mansize

The Golden Miller wrote: »

From a Bayern perspective going forward, their players would genuinely fear playing the likes of Ingolstadt and Darmstadt more than Arsenal at this stage. It's sad that Arsenal have become such an international joke

I think the emotive language gives the game away.

They play UCL year in year out. They are far from an international(? intercontinental ?) joke

mansize

GavRedKing wrote: »

mansize wrote: »

Surely Chelsea would take Kos, unless their CBs have suddenly improved beyond recognition???

If we're cherry picking Arsenal players, it would be Sanchez, then Bellerin I'd take before Koscielny.

None of the baove three though will cross the divide so its really a moot argument.

All things are. If I was Chelsea manager I'd see Kos as the greatest need of the three. Sanchez could prove difficult to manage with bigger stars about. No love for Özil?

mansize

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Way too much talk on both RTE and BT about lack of character, lack of fight and lack of leaders. All of that might be true but neither channel has pinpointed just how woeful Arsenal are tactically, particularly when they get shown up by the big teams.

This.

Some very ordinary players at Arsenal. Take sanchez out of it and how many would make the other top 6 teams automatically. Kochelney? (all bar Chelsea) Ozil? (if he had his head right). Nobody else is top bracket, would be decent squad players at the top level but many would fit in grand at Stoke or Everton and not stand out IMHO.

This is the post I was defending Kos over

mansize

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Because it's not just up to them ? If Koscielny could be tempted by Chelsea there won't be too much Arsenal can do about it.

Yeah my issue with his post was the randomness of it. As far as I know Koscielny hasn't been linked with Chelsea, just seemed like a throwaway comment with absolutely no relevance.

It wasn't random it was replying to a post

Dirty Dingus McGee

SlickRic wrote: »

Arsenal will beat Bayern IMO.

:D:D:D

GavRedKing

mansize wrote: »

All things are. If I was Chelsea manager I'd see Kos as the greatest need of the three. Sanchez could prove difficult to manage with bigger stars about. No love for Özil?

We couldnt afford the luxury of Ozil in 3-4-3, its the same reason Cesc doesnt start for us. Sanchez would be a fantasy signing to add depth to the RW slot but I just cant see Arsenal selling any of their star players to any English side no matter what the price.

Kos is better than Cahill but given his age profile, even if he did come on the market, I dont think we'd go for him, he'll be 32 shortly after the next season starts, slightly older than both our current CBs.

It does though, make an interesting proposal to what Conte will do with Cahill in the summer, hes got Zouma, Ake and Christensen all to accomodate and I wouldnt be surprised to see a new CB brought in the summer and at least 1 of the above sold.

jacool

GavRedKing wrote: »

I just cant see Arsenal selling any of their star players to any English side no matter what the price.

Ashley Cole
Samir Nasri
Emmanuel Adebayor
Kolo Toure
Gael Clichy
Robin Van Persie
There's always a price, and if Wenger goes, no players will have to show loyalty to the new manager.

beakerjoe

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

:D:D:D

To be fair, at 45 minutes gone, it wasnt so far fetched. Arsenal could have been 2-1 up before half time had they taken their chances.

But yeah they imploded emphatically as soon as the 2nd goal went in. When Ozil isn't in a game, it's like Arsenal are down to ten men

GavRedKing

jacool wrote: »

Ashley Cole
Samir Nasri
Emmanuel Adebayor
Kolo Toure
Gael Clichy
Robin Van Persie
There's always a price, and if Wenger goes, no players will have to show loyalty to the new manager.

Of course, it happened in the past but if they get in the right manager in the summer and he can convince the best players to stay, they're sorted.

I think they stand to lose the better players if Wenger stays, Ozil and Sanchez are in the prime of their careers and may want to win more trophies before its too late, as it stands, thats not with Arsenal, FA cup excluded.

KaiserGunner

jacool wrote: »

Ashley Cole
Samir Nasri
Emmanuel Adebayor
Kolo Toure
Gael Clichy
Robin Van Persie
There's always a price, and if Wenger goes, no players will have to show loyalty to the new manager.

All pre 2013 which is when the club have become financially sound and actually loosened the purse strings a bit, with the signing of Ozil which blew the previous transfer record on an Arsenal buy.

I'd hope the club nowadays wouldn't be stupid to sell players to direct rivals, but to a club abroad instead. It's not like they need the money. If Sanchez is sold to anyone in the premier league I'd be fuming.

Still to this day can't believe that Wenger sanctioned the sale of Van Persie to Man Utd, that was the one sale on that list that hurt, the others were meh.

inforfun

jacool wrote: »

Ashley Cole
Samir Nasri
Emmanuel Adebayor
Kolo Toure
Gael Clichy
Robin Van Persie
There's always a price, and if Wenger goes, no players will have to show loyalty to the new manager.

Different times with the new stadium just openend.
Those were selling years, not €45 million player buying years.
Arsenal are where they are because they dont spent isnt a valid argument nowadays.

Bellerin hasn't been excellent this season.

mansize

I thought Wenger strongly resisted that sale. The board basically overruled him

jmayo

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Yeah it's amazing when you think about it. Back in May 2006 Arsenal were 15 mins away from their first ever European cup and thus matching the Mighty Barcelona in European cups won. Obviously Barcelona won it in the end winning their second European cup.

Just goes to show the fortunes on the pitch since. Barcelona are this European juggernaut with multiple European cups since and Arsenal are regularly ridiculed about their European pedigree. A decade is a long time in football.

Arsenal never have been a major player in Europe and really have no historical pedigree in Europe.
Hell Aston Villa and Nottingham Forest have won more major European trophies.

KaiserGunner wrote: »

...
Still to this day can't believe that Wenger sanctioned the sale of Van Persie to Man Utd, that was the one sale on that list that hurt, the others were meh.

But didn't Arsenal get Silvestre from united.:D
Ok I know t was free transfer.

And to show how screwed up Wenger's thinking has been for a very long time, he actually went out of his way to offer Silvestre a contract. :mad:
For some reason Arsene has a thing for gutless players prone to making mistakes.

KaiserGunner

jmayo wrote: »

Arsenal never have been a major player in Europe and really have no historical pedigree in Europe.
Hell Aston Villa and Nottingham Forest have won more major European trophies

And despite that they were 15 mins away from matching Barcelona at the time. Before the champions league allowed more than champions in it (circa mid 90s) not many clubs had a great historical pedigree in Europe as it was much harder to qualify for it, ie had to win a league. Major players in Europe today, (apart from Real Madrid, Milan and Liverpool) have won the lions share of their European cups in the past 20 years or so.

That was the vague point I was trying to make. When AIG was blabbing on about the great Barcelona.

mansize

Arsenal were also denied the right to play in the European Cup following Liverpool supporters antics

http://home.bt.com/news/world-news/may-31-1985-english-football-teams-banned-from-europe-after-heysel-stadium-deaths-11363984048674

bucketybuck

mansize wrote: »

Arsenal were also denied the right to play in the European Cup following Liverpool supporters antics

I understand now why people were talking about the Arsenal thread as being unreadable due to one person.

Beasty

bucketybuck wrote: »

I understand now why people were talking about the Arsenal thread as being unreadable due to one person.

If you have a problem with a post or poster report it and leave the modding to the mods

Any questions PM me - do not respond in-thread

citytillidie

mansize wrote: »

Arsenal were also denied the right to play in the European Cup following Liverpool supporters antics

http://home.bt.com/news/world-news/may-31-1985-english-football-teams-banned-from-europe-after-heysel-stadium-deaths-11363984048674

So you are saying Arsenal would have been a major player in Europe if they were not denied that 1 chance of playing in the European Cup between 1986 and 1990?

Teams to miss out of playing in the European Cup over those 5 years were
Liverpool 3 times
Everton 2 times
Arsenal 1 time

Liverpool got an extra years ban when it was lifted so Aston Villa got to take their spot in the 1990-91 European Cup

mansize

citytillidie wrote: »

So you are saying Arsenal would have been a major player in Europe if they were not denied that 1 chance of playing in the European Cup between 1986 and 1990?

Teams to miss out of playing in the European Cup over those 5 years were
Liverpool 3 times
Everton 2 times
Arsenal 1 time

Liverpool got an extra years ban when it was lifted so Aston Villa got to take their spot in the 1990-91 European Cup

No, I said they missed their right to play in it, I don't know where you got you're inference from

citytillidie

mansize wrote: »

No, I said they missed their right to play in it, I don't know where you got you're inference from

ok major player was overboard and was coming from a post where someone said Villa and Forest have won more European Cups than Arsenal, but the way you said it and how the conversation was going you would think you think all Arsenal had to done that season they missed out was turn up and they would have won it.

Not thinking of that AC Milan team who did win it.

mansize

citytillidie wrote: »

ok major player was overboard and was coming from a post where someone said Villa and Forest have won more European Cups than Arsenal, but the way you said it and how the conversation was going you would think you think all Arsenal had to done that season they missed out was turn up and they would have won it.

Not thinking of that AC Milan team who did win it.

If ifs and buts were coconuts...

Would Yugoslavia have won Euro 92...

Nobody knows...

jmayo

mansize wrote: »

Arsenal were also denied the right to play in the European Cup following Liverpool supporters antics

http://home.bt.com/news/world-news/may-31-1985-english-football-teams-banned-from-europe-after-heysel-stadium-deaths-11363984048674

Actually the great Liverpool team with all the Irish guys was the biggest loser.
Also Everton lost out more than Arsenal.

citytillidie wrote: »

ok major player was overboard and was coming from a post where someone said Villa and Forest have won more European Cups than Arsenal, but the way you said it and how the conversation was going you would think you think all Arsenal had to done that season they missed out was turn up and they would have won it.

Not thinking of that AC Milan team who did win it.

Jaysus I was just commenting that Arsenal were never a major player in European competitions.
As an Arsenal fan I can admit to that.

When people talk of great European clubs Arsenal is not one of the names that crop up even if they are perennial CL members.

Whereas Milan above is positively European football royalty.

Back to current competition I reckon the winner might be ....

the old lady.

citytillidie

Results and Fixtures

Tuesday Feb 14th
SL Benfica (POR) 1 V 0 Borussia Dortmund (GER)
Paris Saint-Germain (FRA) 4 V 0 FC Barcelona (ESP)

Wednesday Feb 15th
FC Bayern München (GER) 5 V 1 Arsenal (ENG)
Real Madrid (ESP) 3 V 1 Napoli (ITA)

Tuesday Feb 21st
Bayer Leverkusen (GER) V Atlético Madrid (ESP)
Manchester City (ENG) V Monaco (FRA)

Wednesday Feb 22nd
Porto (POR) V Juventus (ITA)
Sevilla (ESP)V Leicester City (ENG)

GreNoLi

Draws tonight, looking forward to seeing monaco.

LuckyGent88

Hopefully don't jinx it but I'd expect a good few goals in the city and monaco game. Line ups are so attacking and Monaco have being scoring goals for fun this season.

I'll go for 2-2

Harry Palmr

How did City end up with Fernandino at right back?

Place is half empty again.

blueser

Come on lads; a nice, steady 2-0 (emphasis on the "0") will do for me.

GreNoLi

Falcao got his mojo back?

LuckyGent88

Place is have empty. That's pathetic for what should be a belter of a champions league tie

Utopia Parkway

Some amount of empty seats at the Etihad.

Andersonisgod

Nothing more irritating than listening to TV3 commentators talking about building play from the back.

Lukker-

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Some amount of empty seats at the Etihad.

When is that stadium ever full?

City fans have it so good too, among the cheapest tickets/season tickets of any of the big teams.

Andersonisgod

Cracking game, great contrast of styles.

blueser

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Some amount of empty seats at the Etihad.

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

Place is have empty. That's pathetic for what should be a belter of a champions league tie

The game is supposed to be sold out, so I haven't got a clue why there are so many empty seats there. It is disappointing, even allowing for our well known hatred for all things UEFA.

GreNoLi

Monaco looking tres dangereux.

Lukker-

blueser wrote: »

The game is supposed to be sold out, so I haven't got a clue why there are so many empty seats there. It is disappointing, even allowing for our well known hatred for all things UEFA.

Every Arsenal game gets listed as sold out and in most games you can find a fair few bare spots and empty seats.

GreNoLi

Silva surfer, Falcao lacked pace.

Unearthly

Great game so far

Harry Palmr

Mad pace, hard to see a 0-0 here.

blueser

Lukker- wrote: »

Every Arsenal game gets listed as sold out and in most games you can find a fair few bare spots and empty seats.

The scene outside the ground about 10 minutes before kick off. Just got a text about 5 minutes ago from a mate stuck in one of those queues; not enough security staff doing bag checks, causing long hold ups and a lot of unhappy campers.