2016-17 UEFA Champions League

BorneTobyWilde

Corholio wrote: »

The fact you can 'fix' something in 3 or less games with the exact same players playing says more about modern players than it does about any problems there supposedly was.

Says something about Cloudy N Rainy too .
He should have listened to his players, talked with them and trusted in them. They wanted to play a system they were comfortable with, and wanted to play in positions they did last year. New manager has allowed them to do that, Cloudy N Rainy could have done that too, but he knew best and would not let in .

alchemist33

Corholio wrote: »

The fact you can 'fix' something in 3 or less games with the exact same players playing says more about modern players than it does about any problems there supposedly was.

But was it ever any different? The new manager bounce was always a fairly well-established (if not scientifically proven) and accepted phenomenon. It only seems to be in the last few years that people blamethe players for this rather than the previous manager.

The Talking Bread

This Leicester City Movie will need a LOTR style trilogy. Plenty of content now

Quazzie

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Do you honestly really think they can?

No. I include myself in the group that said they couldn't win the league either. I was proven wrong once though and I think it's at least possible that I can be proven wrong again.

Andersonisgod

Raven Runner wrote: »

Even if they win the CL it's tainted Don't think they have the neutral support they once had, The way the players behaved is still a disgrace them winning doesn't change that

I know it's cup football and any team can win it but genuinely don't think there's a chance that Leicester win the CL, not playing like that. The better teams will carve them open. For whoever draws them it's something of a bye into the semi finals (by last 8 in the CL standards.)

monkey9

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

Ranieri wouldn't have gotten that result, no matter the reason, this shows it was the correct decision to sack him

Agreed, i thought at the time it was the right decision even though the players had to take a share of the blame. But the buck stops with the manager and he simply couldn't get them firing.

I thought he had a bit of luck last year that he hit upon a system that worked and was able to use the same 14 players pretty much.

But by all accounts, he started tinkering like not playing Okazaki etc. All Shakespeare has done is reverted back to the system and line up that brought success last year.

Turtwig

alchemist33 wrote: »

But was it ever any different? The new manager bounce was always a fairly well-established (if not scientifically proven) and accepted phenomenon. It only seems to be in the last few years that people blamethe players for this rather than the previous manager.

The New manager bounce only really applies because team change systems and that forces other teams to take some time to figure them out. It's basically a curve ball or surprise of sorts.

Leicester though under shakepeare have just reverted to type. So not really anything new. Worth also pointing out that under Pearson they finished their league campaign in title wining form. It's mostly the players imo.

hopefully Lecister get a handy draw against Man city

The Talking Bread

Raven Runner wrote: »

Even if they win the CL it's tainted Don't think they have the neutral support they once had, The way the players behaved is still a disgrace them winning doesn't change that

Go on then, indulge us with this great insight you have as to how the players behaved?

sabat

GavRedKing wrote: »

Well Leicesters owner has about 3 billion in the bank so........

A bagman for the Thai military junta/Sino-Thai oligarchs-try opening a a duty free shop there and you'll be dissappeared in short hast

prettyboy81

Deleted User wrote: »

hopefully Lecister get a handy draw against Man city

Or Monaco

Johner

Fair play Leicester, nobody gave them a chance of beating Sevilla(including me).

Lovely Bloke

"Tainted" - they won't give a bollix. Does anyone remember the story of the team that won the 1997 CL? No, me either.

Nobody will give a bollix in 20 years, only look at the list and see the winners.

Fr Tod Umptious

TheCitizen wrote: »

I think you have a point. They clearly downed tools to get rid of him. It shows that players have more power now than ever. That may backfire at some point.

I think the point of where it was going to back fire just passed a few hours ago.

Wins in the league to get them out of relegation danger for now, and a come from behind win in the CL, everything from here on is a bonus.

ERG89

Boy Sevilla really shat the bed with that tie. Nobody to blame but themselves.

The Golden Miller

Turtwig wrote: »

Sevilla been cack of late. That said they should have comfortably won that tie. Delighted for Leicester. Juventus or atleti next and they've got every chance of making a semi.

Vardy actually turned the momentum of the game at a crucial moment. Like Suarez last week another example of unsporting conduct being rewarded. Makes for brilliant drama though.

Leicester have a better chance of beating a combined Bayern, Barca and Madrid XI than Juve.

Mr.Micro

ERG89 wrote: »

Boy Sevilla really shat the bed with that tie. Nobody to blame but themselves.

Truly awful side.

Omackeral

Raven Runner wrote: »

Even if they win the CL it's tainted Don't think they have the neutral support they once had, The way the players behaved is still a disgrace them winning doesn't change that

People will easily get back on the bandwagon if they make it to the final, one thing people love is a bandwagon. Also how would it be tainted? For the Vardy/Nasri incident? They both got booked. For the Ranieri sacking? It would actually legitimise that decision really.

inforfun

Tie decided by 2 missed penalties and t wasnt even a penalty shoot out.
And i hope they dropped Nasri off in Manchester on the way back to the airport.

The Talking Bread

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Truly awful side.

Say What? Sevilla? Awful Side?

They weren't evwen "that bad" last night, well below what they are capable of and well and truly shackled by a side who played as if they were playing away from home.
Leicester are a team, lest you forget, this is the core of the Premier League Champions, who despite their awful season, seem to have regained what was an extraordinary mentality/determination to win games in whatever means it takes since Ranieri left. Once they went the goal up, their confidence was sky high and they thrived in that defensive set up.

I could genuinely still see Sevilla mounting a fightback and, indeed, winning the tie before Nasri was sent off. They had started to find a rhythmic passing around the Leicester box, even the seconds before Nasri went into 1diot mode.

It was a fascinating game to watch, ugly, yes but tense and unpredictable.

But Sevilla are and even last night were far from a truly awful side.

SlickRic

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I know it's cup football and any team can win it but genuinely don't think there's a chance that Leicester win the CL, not playing like that. The better teams will carve them open. For whoever draws them it's something of a bye into the semi finals (by last 8 in the CL standards.)

While I think it's highly unlikely they'll win it, I think that suggesting they're a bye into the next round for other teams is snobbery of the highest order.

Especially after you predicted a comfortable win for Sevilla and couldn't understand anyone thinking Leicester would win.

They don't play a style you like, therefore they can't win it. That's similar sentiment to the one shared by 99% of the football community last year who said they'd no chance of winning the Premier League.

AdamD

Is it really snobbery? 2 missed penalties, countless missed chances in the first leg and a shot off the bar hugely contributed to them going through. Also Nasri losing the head. Not to discount the victory, but they will go out in the next round. Can call it snobbery if you like but I've no issue coming back to this thread in a few weeks time to see who was correct!

SlickRic

AdamD wrote: »

Is it really snobbery? 2 missed penalties, countless missed chances in the first leg and a shot off the bar hugely contributed to them going through. Also Nasri losing the head. Not to discount the victory, but they will go out in the next round. Can call it snobbery if you like but I've no issue coming back to this thread in a few weeks time to see who was correct!

It's snobbery to suggest they're a 'bye' for other teams. It's not if you simply suggest they'll lose in the next round.

Big, big difference.

The Talking Bread

Leicester's last 3 results against Man City.

4-2 Win
0-0 Draw
1-3 Win



Now, there would be a lot of underlying different circumstances going into this game, if they meet, but no way would that be a bye. Far from it.

Monaco, Juve, Madrid, Bayern, Barca, Atletico, Dortmund, (Bayer....very unlikely, of course) are the rest of their potential opponents.


Near standard route through against Leicester for the most of them if they draw them but definitely not byes for two or 3.

Omackeral

AdamD wrote: »

Is it really snobbery? 2 missed penalties, countless missed chances in the first leg and a shot off the bar hugely contributed to them going through. Also Nasri losing the head. Not to discount the victory, but they will go out in the next round. Can call it snobbery if you like but I've no issue coming back to this thread in a few weeks time to see who was correct!

Just like everyone, including Andersonisgod, said that Barcelona would go out when trailing PSG 4-0 from the first leg? Nothing is certain in football, especially in knockout competition.

Dirty Dingus McGee

I see Buffon saying Juve want anyone bar Leicester but I somehow think he's bull****ting.

Andersonisgod

SlickRic wrote: »

It's snobbery to suggest they're a 'bye' for other teams. It's not if you simply suggest they'll lose in the next round.

Big, big difference.

By the extremely high standards of the CL quarter finals and the quality of the teams remaining in the competition it's a bye.

I've no doubt about it, they were lucky over 2 legs. If they win the CL this season I will literally retire from Boards. Needless to say, it ain't happening.

The Talking Bread

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I see Buffon saying Juve want anyone bar Leicester but I somehow think he's bull****ting.

Different context to be fair! Think he said they would have "everything to lose" but it was more a congratulatory recognition of their progress and the shock factor that has surrounded their last 2 years.

"“They’re a dangerous side, there’s a feelgood factor around the place and they have the ability to hurt you if you take the game to them. You have everything to lose against them.”
(ie, if you lost against them, you would be "rightfully" perhaps hung, drawn and quartered by the Juve fans and Italian media. Not a good thing in Italy!

The Talking Bread

Andersonisgod wrote: »

By the extremely high standards of the CL quarter finals and the quality of the teams remaining in the competition it's a bye.

I've no doubt about it, they were lucky over 2 legs. If they win the CL this season I will literally retire from Boards. Needless to say, it ain't happening.

Will you quit Boards until the end of the season, or not mention Pep or Messi again if they reach the semi's !!

Come on, make it interesting!!

The Golden Miller

I wouldn't write off Leicester, but if any of the remaining teams are clinical Leicester are out. But I suppose that's the problem against bus parkers, it's extremely hard to be clinical with so little space the work with. Still, Leicester aren't Chelsea under Mourinho and will offer up some chances as they did to Seville. A continued upward trajectory of confidence and that "feel good factor" may see luck stay on their side. I'd fear for them against Juve, Atleti and Monaco though, if the latter two get through. Their style completely nullifies Leicesters counter attacking game plan.

Arghus

How can people be so hasty in writing Leicster off? Sure - on paper - they shouldn't have a chance against any of the remaining teams, but football isn't played on paper, and the team pulled off literally the greatest upset in the history of football last season - people should know by now that anything can happen when you are talking about this team. Yeah, a bit utopian of me and they will undoubtedly find it tough and could indeed go no further than the quarters, but it's arrogance of the highest degree to just blithely say they have no chance whatsoever.

JaMarcusHustle

AdamD wrote:

Is it really snobbery? 2 missed penalties, countless missed chances in the first leg and a shot off the bar hugely contributed to them going through.

I think it certainly is snobbery to discredit Kasper Schmeichel for 2 penalty saves under huge pressure.

bucketybuck

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

I think it certainly is snobbery to discredit Kasper Schmeichel for 2 penalty saves under huge pressure.

Nobody will discredit him, but that penalty last night was very badly struck, once he went the right way it became a very easy save.

You might say that he still had to pick the right side to dive, and he did, but guessing right in a 50/50 decision is as much luck as it is skill.

inforfun

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

I think it certainly is snobbery to discredit Kasper Schmeichel for 2 penalty saves under huge pressure.

Pressure is on the player taking the kick, certainly this season at Sevilla as they inherited Barca's penalty curse of last season.
Schmeichel had nothing to lose in Sevilla. Last night a bit more since he made the foul for the penalty

The Talking Bread

inforfun wrote: »

Pressure is on the player taking the kick, certainly this season at Sevilla as they inherited Barca's penalty curse of last season.
Schmeichel had nothing to lose in Sevilla. Last night a bit more since he made the foul for the penalty

Of course there is pressure on Schmeichel, especially as he conceded the penalty and at the end of the day from his perspective his job is to save shots. His Job. Especially one with so much at stake.

His preparation, his distraction tactics, his research. All going through his head.

For Schmeichel, he is a professional and in the first leg, even at 2 down he still had so much to lose conceding another goal. He clearly has inherited some of his fathers winning attitude and self belief so I can't envisage his mentality with the first leg penalty (which you said he had "nothing to lose" facing it) was a laissez faire "ah sure, if they score they score, we are more or less beaten anyway, no pressure so"

This dressing room, I imagine has much more belief in themselves than us, and have now a high, call it arrogantly created, perhaps, standard.

GavRedKing

Leicesters best chance of going through is probably to face Man City.

I'd say if City and Leicester could cherry pick their opponents, theyed pick each other.

Thats assuming Man City remain professional and knock out Monaco tonight of course.

The Talking Bread

Schmeichel has a 25% penalty save record in his career (16 saved...46 scored) which is the average norm for keepers in this modern era.

Back in the 70s/80s/early to mid 90s) that % was closer to 10% so clearly this is as a result of keepers preparation/mentality/tactics such as distraction and putting pressure and applying higher standards on themselves to save it.

Penalty takers have also had to up their standards and tactics and research when facing the spot but it still hasn't stopped keepers becoming far better facing penalties these days.

Hence there is more pressure on keepers to maintain such standards nowadays.

inforfun

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Of course there is pressure on Schmeichel, especially as he conceded the penalty and at the end of the day from his perspective his job is to save shots. His Job. Especially one with so much at stake.

His preparation, his distraction tactics, his research. All going through his head.

For Schmeichel, he is a professional and in the first leg, even at 2 down he still had so much to lose conceding another goal. He clearly has inherited some of his fathers winning attitude and self belief so I can't envisage his mentality with the first leg penalty (which you said he had "nothing to lose" facing it) was a laissez faire "ah sure, if they score they score, we are more or less beaten anyway, no pressure so"

This dressing room, I imagine has much more belief in themselves than us, and have now a high, call it arrogantly created, perhaps, standard.

At the end of the day, if a penalty is scored, no one blames a goalkeeper. The player did his job, scored.
That is what i meant with nothing to lose.
Of course he wants to save them and is disappointed if he doesnt.

Now this guy... he lost:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPzbBIcTyg8

Omackeral

Calling it a bye is arrogant and disrespectful. Upsets happen. Greece in Euro 2004. Porto with Jose. Leicester winning the league. They were campaigns, leagues and tournaments. This is a two legged match, 180 minutes. Set yourself up right and play well and hope the other team have an off night and you're in with a shot.

SlickRic

Andersonisgod wrote: »

By the extremely high standards of the CL quarter finals and the quality of the teams remaining in the competition it's a bye.

I've no doubt about it, they were lucky over 2 legs. If they win the CL this season I will literally retire from Boards. Needless to say, it ain't happening.

It's not a bye. It doesn't matter how you dress it up.

Leicester are there on merit, and deserve respect for what they're doing. They cruised their group and just beat the 3rd best team in La Liga this season. People are already discrediting them because 'Sevilla were shít'.

You'd think people would fúcking learn.

Yes, any truly top tier team should beat them. But they pose very different problems to nearly every other team in the competition. They've an utterly nasty, dirty pest up front and are insanely direct. It's not quite as simple as 'If a team plays well against them, they'll beat them'. If that were true, they'd not have got near an arse's roar of a PL title. Bit they won it. Over 38 games. So there's something in that team, at its best, that causes teams to struggle.

I'll admit, I thought they were utterly found out this season, until Ranieri left. But they're showing they're not quite as ordinary as we all assumed.

They'll get respect one day.

bucketybuck

SlickRic wrote: »

They've an utterly nasty, dirty pest up front

But enough about Barcelona, what do you think about Leicester?

SlickRic

bucketybuck wrote: »

But enough about Barcelona, what do you think about Leicester?

Touché!

The Talking Bread

inforfun wrote: »

At the end of the day, if a penalty is scored, no one blames a goalkeeper. The player did his job, scored.
That is what i meant with nothing to lose.
Of course he wants to save them and is disappointed if he doesnt.

And the keeper didn't do his job, he conceded.

A keeper has a job too. And the most NB part of that is not to concede goals.

A striker always has a job to score goals, and a keeper always has a job to save. Yes, the chances of scoring outweigh the chances of saving but that doesn't mean keepers have "nothing to lose" facing penalties.

I think keepers are patronised too much when they make saves these day, whether penalties or a top corner fingertip stop. They are professional keepers paid huge money, it is what they are there for. A goal goes down as a goal at the end of the day, penalty or not.
It really irritates me when a perfectly capable keeper, who has dedicated their life to that career, whether Darren Randolph or David De Gea makes a good save.
If Sevilla score 2 penalties to put them through, facts are facts. Sevilla are through, they scored 2 penalties. Leicester are out.............so, yeah, so much to lose.

if he didn't put pressure on himself, if he had the mindset that he has nothing to lose when facing a spotkick, he wouldn't have saved 25% of penalties he faced throughout his career and he most certainly wouldn't have been at the core of a defence who won the league.

Just because a few fans wouldn't "expect" him to save it, doesn't mean he wouldn't expect himself to. Especially when it is clear keepers do massive preparation for facing a penalty these days, as evident with the huge increase in saves. Therefore he puts pressure on himself, and that is the only pressure he can relate to at that moment. It is natural.

dfx-

Leicester are long past getting respect given the players nearly sunk their season to get rid of a manager.

It's rich of them to look for respect.

Turtwig

As things stand Leicester have only to play in five games to win the champions league. They're don't necessarily have to win a single one of these games either. Yes, they're they weakest team left in this competition and yes sevilla should have comfortably beat them but that's the beauty of this sport: At the top tier the technical ability gap isn't that big and any team with right application and attitude can make it difficult for a team to beat them on a given day.

There are no "byes" at this stage of the competition.

inforfun

The Talking Bread wrote: »

And the keeper didn't do his job, he conceded.

A keeper has a job too. And the most NB part of that is not to concede goals.

A striker always has a job to score goals, and a keeper always has a job to save. Yes, the chances of scoring outweigh the chances of saving but that doesn't mean keepers have "nothing to lose" facing penalties.

I think keepers are patronised too much when they make saves these day, whether penalties or a top corner fingertip stop. They are professional keepers paid huge money, it is what they are there for. A goal goes down as a goal at the end of the day, penalty or not.
It really irritates me when a perfectly capable keeper, who has dedicated their life to that career, whether Darren Randolph or David De Gea makes a good save.
If Sevilla score 2 penalties to put them through, facts are facts. Sevilla are through, they scored 2 penalties. Leicester are out.............so, yeah, so much to lose.

if he didn't put pressure on himself, if he had the mindset that he has nothing to lose when facing a spotkick, he wouldn't have saved 25% of penalties he faced throughout his career and he most certainly wouldn't have been at the core of a defence who won the league.

Just because a few fans wouldn't "expect" him to save it, doesn't mean he wouldn't expect himself to. Especially when it is clear keepers do massive preparation for facing a penalty these days, as evident with the huge increase in saves. Therefore he puts pressure on himself, and that is the only pressure he can relate to at that moment. It is natural.

I get your point, believe me. maybe i am not maling my point clear.
Maybe it is because i never missed a penalty in a match (completely different level of course) that i dont think there is much to lose for a keeper, just to win.

Of course Schmeichel won them the tie with those 2 stops and a bunch of saves in Sevilla and the first minute stop from Nasri last night so he had that to win when you look back at it now.
No other player was as important to Leicesters qualification as he was.

The Talking Bread

dfx- wrote: »

Leicester are long past getting respect given the players nearly tanked their season to get rid of a manager.

It's rich of them to look for respect.

What bloody rubbish. Media fed rubbish. Noone has a clue what has gone on. It is a nice story though so the media keep feeding it.

Local fan groups have far more insight into their club goings on etc than the likes of Graham Souness or The Sun.

Ranieri is a relatively weak manager, persona wise, his CV proves that which constantly shows him only lasting relatively short periods at clubs. Coincidence?

Maybe Ranieri is too nice, too loyal, too emotionally driven to be in a situation like this. Maybe he hadn't the ability to change things around, sit down with his players, make tactical changes, give them a b*llocking etc

Since he took over at the end of 14/15 they were never on a freefall that Ranieri had to look at his team and say, listen, Jamie/Robert/Morgan/Danny, it;s not working, we need to change something. The team and tactics picked itself in his golden period and now that opposition had really done their homework on them they needed to instill a different approach,
Ranieri seems too timid to be scrupulous (or maybe not able to devise a new system)
He is the complete antithesis to his "tinkerman" alias of yesteryear.

Fans recognised this and some wanted him out as early as last November, growing discontent over the Xmas period and then, the majority of the hardcore fans wanted him out in the weeks before he went.

The fans loved Pearson also, remember, (indeed for a lot of hardcore fans he is more a legend than Ranieri) and he, himself had done great things and, indeed, built the squad that won the league himself. But things were starting to hit the fan, like just before Ranieri was fired and the Board were praised for their courage in getting rid of him against some fans disapproval to dig them out of relegation "certainty".

Are you a Leicester fan? My guess is no?
Will you be that upset if they get relegated? Nah, I wouldn't think so.


The owners, fans, players are the only ones to decide what is best for their club, not the sensationalist media or fans looking from afar.



Most of the same media took the absolute mick out of LFC for paying big bucks to Ranieri for "thinking" he would be the right choice to save them from relegation and getting rid of club legend Pearson.






Condescending rubbish.

GreNoLi

Allez monaco, steamroll city, roger rabbit 'em.

3-1 monaco.

ERG89

Seeing Dunphy using a touchscreen is like your Dad using a smartphone for the first time.
Pity Falcao is out, a lot of pressure on Mbappe to produce.

The Talking Bread

2-1 City I think.

Hope Monaco score first, will really make this tie fascinating.