2016-17 UEFA Champions League

niallo27

Billy86 wrote: »

It was three games and no six, no? He scored against Betis on March 12th and went three games (Alaves, Athletic, Atletico) without scoring after that. In fact, taking a quick glance it doesn't appear he has gone more than 3 games without a goal since early 2011, over six years ago.

I meant champions league.

fuzzydunlop85

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Where theres a will theres a way - Lots of people here who will go escrow for you, look after the two stakes and give them to the winner - one poster has reliably escrowed over 1K+ every year for the fantasy football.

Exactly ! I'm game if you're willing to put your money where you mouth is. And like I said you said it should be odds against I will even take straight evens.

The Golden Miller

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

Exactly ! I'm game if you're willing to put your money where you mouth is. And like I said you said it should be odds against I will even take straight evens.

50 it is so, penalties not included, ye?

Billy86

niallo27 wrote: »

I meant champions league.

Ah got ya, though in those 6 games he had 5 assists which kind of negates the point of not creating goals, though I do get your overall point as with Ronaldo and messing its basically just come to be accepted that a goal per game ratio is the expectation. Checking on my phone and the espnfc website isn't kind for mobile viewing, but I think that's correct.

The Golden Miller

Billy86 wrote: »

Ah got ya, though in those 6 games he had 5 assists which kind of negates the point of not creating goals, though I do get your overall point as with Ronaldo and messing its basically just come to be accepted that a goal per game ratio is the expectation. Checking on my phone and the espnfc website isn't kind for mobile viewing, but I think that's correct.

Assists are meaningless in proving creativity and productivity with no context. Just more "stats" for people to hide behind to big up Ronaldo. Funny how we always end up back with stats and no context when talking about Ronaldo's "greatness", yet they are never once brought into the conversation when talking about the true greats of the game. We don't need "stats" to know Messi, Maradona, Hagi, Platini, Cruyff are great players. It just goes to show how paltry and anonymous Ronaldo's performances are for a whole 90 minutes, apart from when he's getting tap ins on a plate against mainly cannon fodder defences

The Talking Bread

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Billy86 wrote: »

Ah got ya, though in those 6 games he had 5 assists which kind of negates the point of not creating goals, though I do get your overall point as with Ronaldo and messing its basically just come to be accepted that a goal per game ratio is the expectation. Checking on my phone and the espnfc website isn't kind for mobile viewing, but I think that's correct.

Assists are meaningless in proving creativity and productivity with no context. Just more "stats" for people to hide behind to big up Ronaldo. Funny how we always end up back with stats with no context when talking about Ronaldo's "greatness", yet they are never once brought into the conversation when talking about the true greats of the game

How the hell are assists meaningless in any context for an attacking player playing in the top levels of football? ! Go on then I am interested in who has the honour of inclusion in TGM''s list of great players, and what criteria makes them such.

The Talking Bread

Pathetic stuff !! How many 90 minute games anyway did you see any of these players like Hagi, Cruyff, Maradona and Platini play so as that you can degrade the level of player Ronaldo is in comparison

The Golden Miller

The Talking Bread wrote: »

How the hell are assists meaningless in any context for an attacking player playing in the top levels of football? ! Go on then I am interested in who has the honour of inclusion in TGM''s list of great players, and what criteria makes them such.

I'm sure Ronaldo has more assists than Xavi, Pirlo and Schweinsteiger combined. Is he now a more creative and productive player? Isn't that what bringing up assist stats is all about? Getting assists for an out and out striker goes with the territory. Since he spends most of his time hanging around the box as a passenger watching the game, where every attack is directed at him, I'd be expecting any striker worth his salt to be laying off two yard tap ins in a team that dominates nearly every game they play

fuzzydunlop85

The Golden Miller wrote: »

50 it is so, penalties not included, ye?

Why would pens not be included ?

The Talking Bread

This is silly. You aren't a great advocate for the anti Ronaldo brigade! Leave it to others who can at least make some sort of sense!

All I am hearing is "YEAH BUT, NO BUT"

The Golden Miller

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Pathetic stuff !! How many 90 minute games anyway did you see any of these players like Hagi, Cruyff, Maradona and Platini play so as that you can degrade the level of player Ronaldo is in comparison

You don't need to see any of them to know they are more than passengers over 90 minutes. All you have to do is watch Ronaldo over 90 minutes to see that he's generally one of the most anonymous players on the field

The Golden Miller

The Talking Bread wrote: »

This is silly. You aren't a great advocate for the anti Ronaldo brigade! Leave it to others who can at least make some sort of sense!

All I am hearing is "YEAH BUT, NO BUT"

So what's inaccurate about questioning the context of assist stats. He has more than Pirlo, Schweinsteiger and Xavi, so what does Ronaldo's superior assist count tell you? He's more creative and productive?

But I apologise for the tone, articulation and edits in my posts, I've been posting off my phone the last few days which is akward to say the least

The Golden Miller

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

Why would pens not be included ?

Why do you think? Anyone can win one which is no indication of Ronaldo's contribution

Billy86

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Assists are meaningless in proving creativity and productivity with no context. Just more "stats" for people to hide behind to big up Ronaldo. Funny how we always end up back with stats and no context when talking about Ronaldo's "greatness", yet they are never once brought into the conversation when talking about the true greats of the game. We don't need "stats" to know Messi, Maradona, Hagi, Platini, Cruyff are great players. It just goes to show how paltry and anonymous Ronaldo's performances are for a whole 90 minutes, apart from when he's getting tap ins on a plate against mainly cannon fodder defences

"Ronaldo only scores against cannon fodder and disappears for five games after."
"Ronaldo very rarely scores against big teams."
"Oh yeah, but he basically never scored two goals against big teams"
"Well, yeah, whatever. But I've never seen him score a hat trick, save a penalty, two assists and perform open heart surgery against a big team. Never"

"Oh, and assists don't count for anything because they don't fit my narrative of him contributing nothing outside of goalscoring"


I see you chose to ignore my post showing Ronaldo scoring 2 goals the last time he played away in Munich, in the CL semi finals against the then reigning European champions. "FINALLY he scores 2 against a big club. Apart from the 2 he scored last time he played against that very same club in their home stadium." He scored 2 goals in one game against Juventus as well... but let me guess, group stage games don't count either because reasons damnit reasons!?!? :pac:



Just keeping saying it's not real and it will go away, just keeping saying it's not real and it will go away, just keeping saying it's not real and it will go away, just keeping saying it's not real and it will go away, just keeping saying it's not real and it will go away, just keeping saying it's not real and it will go away, just keep saying...

SlickRic

Ronaldo is the player in the history of football that will be criticised for the mere fact that he's not Lionel Messi.

He's actually a victim of the time in which he plays football.

If Messi wasn't around, this discussion wouldn't be happening. He'd be recognised universally as one of the absolute greats. It wouldn't even be a discussion. You'd be sectioned for suggesting otherwise.

Messi gives people an out. And it's sad.

The Talking Bread

The Golden Miller wrote: »

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Pathetic stuff !! How many 90 minute games anyway did you see any of these players like Hagi, Cruyff, Maradona and Platini play so as that you can degrade the level of player Ronaldo is in comparison

You don't need to see any of them to know they are more than passengers over 90 minutes. All you have to do is watch Ronaldo over 90 minutes to see that he's generally one of the most anonymous players on the field

"You don't need to see them to know"........ I bloody love the logic!

The Talking Bread

You are a gift that keeps giving!

The Golden Miller

The Talking Bread wrote: »

"You don't need to see them to know"........ I bloody love the logic!

If Ronaldo's 90 minute performances are generally lacklustre in comparison to the other 21 players on any given day, I don't think we even need to bring up the all time greats to denigrate his performances. We can use the other 21 players. Isn't it funny though, when discussing the other greats, we dont need to defend their greatness with stats which is always the fall back for arguments touting Ronaldo's greatness. Why is that? We don't do it with Messi or the other greats. That tells me there's serious flaws in most facets of Ronaldo's game that people selectively ignore, which can be seen in most games over 90 minutes. His goal scoring "stats" (mainly tap ins against cannon fodder) paper over the cracks of his paltry on field contributions

irishman86

Quazzie wrote: »

Several times he has stated that it's against the norm for Ronaldo to score against the top teams, not that it never happened to be fair.

Its still inaccurate, he is the joint 3rd top scorer in El Clasico and has played in less than all those ahead of him. You can literally say that every striker fails against the big teams if you say it off Ronaldo

irishman86

inforfun wrote: »

Not just from last night and i dont mean "level" of Huntelaar.
I just think he has evolved, due to age probably, from a player that did a lot more than just score goals to a player that "just" scores goals.

Ignoring all his assists off course the second most in the CL, then yes hes just a goal scorer

The Golden Miller

irishman86 wrote: »

Its still inaccurate, he is the joint 3rd top scorer in El Clasico and has played in less than all those ahead of him. You can literally say that every striker fails against the big teams if you say it off Ronaldo

How many games did he score those 19 goals in and against what teams? I can guarantee you most are cheap goals in routs that Madrid steamroll regardless. He's some man for the two yard tap ins on a plate to plump up his numbers

The Golden Miller

irishman86 wrote: »

Ignoring all his assists off course the second most in the CL, then yes hes just a goal scorer

So he's the second best playmaker and creator of all time in the CL? Is that the implication?
More disingenuous nonsense and hiding behind stats, unable to discuss his greatness in any other manner other than numbers with no context. Can we not discuss Ronaldo's all time greatness without resorting to stats like we do with Messi, Maradona etc?

Andersonisgod

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

So of you acknowledge these things are insignificant to his game why do you continually being them up.

Is it not the equivalent of saying the likes of Vincent Kompnay is a terrible defender as he doesn't dictate a game on a weekly basis....

I don't bring them up! People say "look, he scored 2 goals, he's the best player ever" and I say "he's one of the greatest goalscorers ever certainly but there's areas of his game that are not up to the standard of others who might be considered the greatest player ever" and the typical response to that is "hater" or "look, he scored again ha ha ha point proven" which, ironically, is what my original argument was about.

I have no problem saying that, while I don't think he's the greatest footballer ever (hardly a comment that warrants the death sentence given the gravity of the achievement) I can acknowledge his impact on a huge game last night and appreciate the effort he's put in to make himself the player he is. His finishes last night against a legendary goalkeeper in top form were excellent and his actions, particularly once Bayern went down to 10 men, could well be decisive in deciding the tie. I would be willing to bet that I've said far more complimentary things on this board about Ronaldo than many of his fans on here have said about Messi (infact they will always bring up personal things like tax, which I've never resorted to having a go at Ronaldo about during an argument despite his very questionable tax record, or quitting the national team, despite practically every Argentine player acknowledging the justified reasons behind it). Again, wr don't need a Messi vs Ronaldo debate again, I'm simply stating that any comment on here about Ronaldo that doesn't declare him "the best" is automatically condemned as "hating" which is a cancer to logical debate.

irishman86

niallo27 wrote: »

Well if he is only there to score goals which i dont agree he should be there to create as well, he went 6 games without scoring before last night, a large spell by his standards. He redeemed himself last night like he always does, but it was a fair criticism to mention it by his own incredible standards before the game last night.

He second in assists in the CL, come on buddy, its not hard to use google

fuzzydunlop85

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Why do you think? Anyone can win one which is no indication of Ronaldo's contribution

He can score it though which be a contribution. If I back an anytime goalscorer and they score a penalty it's a winner.

inforfun

irishman86 wrote: »

Ignoring all his assists off course the second most in the CL, then yes hes just a goal scorer

You should read the second line of the post you quoted, starting with "I think"

irishman86

The Golden Miller wrote: »

How many games did he score those 19 goals in and against what teams? I can guarantee you most are cheap goals in routs that Madrid steamroll regardless. He's some man for the two yard tap ins on a plate to plump up his numbers

Oh you, your argument has been tore apart already by numerous posters buddy, Im just sitting and watching you talk ****. Dont mind me, Ive already decided you havent a clue about football or else are just a pathetic fan boy

niallo27

irishman86 wrote: »

He second in assists in the CL, come on buddy, its not hard to use google

Did you read the post I quoted. He said he should be judged as a goalscorer and nothing else.

irishman86

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I don't bring them up! People say "look, he scored 2 goals, he's the best player ever" and I say "he's one of the greatest goalscorers ever certainly but there's areas of his game that are not up to the standard of others who might be considered the greatest player ever" and the typical response to that is "hater" or "look, he scored again ha ha ha point proven" which, ironically, is what my original argument was about.

I have no problem saying that, while I don't think he's the greatest footballer ever (hardly a comment that warrants the death sentence given the gravity of the achievement) I can acknowledge his impact on a huge game last night and appreciate the effort he's put in to make himself the player he is. His finishes last night against a legendary goalkeeper in top form were excellent and his actions, particularly once Bayern went down to 10 men, could well be decisive in deciding the tie. I would be willing to bet that I've said far more complimentary things on this board about Ronaldo than many of his fans on here have said about Messi (infact they will always bring up personal things like tax, which I've never resorted to having a go at Ronaldo about during an argument despite his very questionable tax record, or quitting the national team, despite practically every Argentine player acknowledging the justified reasons behind it). Again, wr don't need a Messi vs Ronaldo debate again, I'm simply stating that any comment on here about Ronaldo that doesn't declare him "the best" is automatically condemned as "hating" which is a cancer to logical debate.

I would say more people say Messi is better tbh and the Messi fans are just as aggressive about insulting Ronaldo, its why I stay away from Reddi :pac:
I dont disagree/agree with what your saying, you dont seem to write tripe about him like another recent poster

irishman86

niallo27 wrote: »

Did you read the post I quoted. He said he should be judged as a goalscorer and nothing else.

Which is incorrect

inforfun wrote: »

You should read the second line of the post you quoted, starting with "I think"

I did, I think your incorrect, if anything he gets more assists now than previously

Andersonisgod

irishman86 wrote: »

I would say more people say Messi is better tbh and the Messi fans are just as aggressive about insulting Ronaldo, its why I stay away from Reddi :pac:
I dont disagree/agree with what your saying, you dont seem to write tripe about him like another recent poster

I make no secret that I think Messi is the better player, but at the same time just because I think that doesn't mean I can't appreciate Ronaldo's talents and his achievements. I don't make any secret either that I think 2 of his Balon D'or's were very contentious but, again that makes me a hater so we won't talk about that. I say he's one of the best goalscorers in the history of the sport but some will consider that an insult to his legacy (which is absurd). Unfortunately football fans ars too deeply entrenched in supporting one or the other of these two players for any real debate or analysis to ever flourish.

The Golden Miller

irishman86 wrote: »

Oh you, your argument has been tore apart already by numerous posters buddy, Im just sitting and watching you talk ****. Dont mind me, Ive already decided you havent a clue about football or else are just a pathetic fan boy

Ye tore apart alright. That's why you can't engage in a discussion about Ronaldos greatness without churning out stats.

The Golden Miller

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

He can score it though which be a contribution. If I back an anytime goalscorer and they score a penalty it's a winner.

The original point you interjected in was me claiming he wouldn't score again unless he got a peno. So surely they are the conditions you want to take the bet on?

jmayo

A lot of people, including actual ex professional footballers, use the number of CL leagues won and goals scored as an indication of how great the likes of Messi AND C Ronaldo are and how they are the best ever.

I do agree they are the best of the last 15 years, the best of this era by miles, but the best ever ?

It is easy to claim the latest is the best and shure look at the amount of goals they have scored in European competitions.

But I would be more interested in the number of goals per actual game.

In European competitions, Gerd Muller has a better goal ratio than either Ronaldo or Messi.
Eusebio has a better one than Messi and is not far off Ronaldo's.

Gerd Muller doesn't even appear in the top for European Cup/CL because Bayern didn't win a league from 74 to 79.
This is they guy that is till in the top list of international goalscorers having scored 68 goals in 62 appearances and 62 goals in 71 European games.
He scored 85 goals in the calendar year of 1972 and did it in less games than Messi 40 odd years later.

FFS if Muller was playing it looks like now some people around here would be wetting themselves.

Eusbio and Di Stefano have better goal ratio than Ronaldo when you just count European Cup/CL.

Imagine if they played as many games in Europe as Ronaldo and Messi.
Imagine if they had been able to play in the European Cup basically every year of their careers.

If one looks at the players who have made the most appearances in all European competitions every one of them bar Paulo Maldini (great quiz question btw) made their debuts post 1990.
The CL started in 1992 and with the number of games, the number of games against also rans and the number of games that don't matter it throws the stats scueways in favour or the newer generations.

GreNoLi

Who's your favourite player Miller?

The Golden Miller

GreNoLi wrote: »

Who's your favourite player Miller?

Pablo Aimar.....well until he retired

The Golden Miller

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Pablo Aimar.....well until he retired

I still wear the 2006 world cup jersey with his name on the back. Beautiful jersey, still probably their best to date. Really left the world cup behind them that year when Pekerman took off Riquelme against Germany while in cruise control, then brought on Cambiasso with Messi and Aimar sitting on the bench. Deserved to be sacked after that

GreNoLi

irishman86

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I make no secret that I think Messi is the better player, but at the same time just because I think that doesn't mean I can't appreciate Ronaldo's talents and his achievements. I don't make any secret either that I think 2 of his Balon D'or's were very contentious but, again that makes me a hater so we won't talk about that. I say he's one of the best goalscorers in the history of the sport but some will consider that an insult to his legacy (which is absurd). Unfortunately football fans ars too deeply entrenched in supporting one or the other of these two players for any real debate or analysis to ever flourish.

I think that a lot of the Balon D'ors have been dodgy tbh. I think while Messi/Ronaldo play its going to be either of them, regardless of what happens, look at poor Sneijder

irishman86

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Ye tore apart alright. That's why you can't engage in a discussion about Ronaldos greatness without churning out stats.

No I wont engage YOU in a discussion because I see what you write, incase you are wondering, you write rubbish

ERG89

This is a thread about the Champions League tournament yeah???

Billy86

The Golden Miller wrote: »

irishman86 wrote: »

Its still inaccurate, he is the joint 3rd top scorer in El Clasico and has played in less than all those ahead of him. You can literally say that every striker fails against the big teams if you say it off Ronaldo

How many games did he score those 19 goals in and against what teams? I can guarantee you most are cheap goals in routs that Madrid steamroll regardless. He's some man for the two yard tap ins on a plate to plump up his numbers

...you do know what El Clasico is, right?

The Golden Miller

irishman86 wrote: »

No I wont engage YOU in a discussion because I see what you write, incase you are wondering, you write rubbish

Any more stats for us?

irishman86

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Any more stats for us?

As of the time of starting this post The Golden Miller has 2392 posts that are factually proven to be ****e.
And its just you, there is no one agreeing with you hence no us, another thing you have gotten incorrect

The Golden Miller

irishman86 wrote: »

As of the time of starting this post The Golden Miller has 2392 posts that are factually proven to be ****e.
And its just you, there is no one agreeing with you hence no us, another thing you have gotten incorrect

I come on here to debate certain topics, you seem to come on here to attack the poster. I don't understand why you keep writing to me if you've no interest in debating with me, so I can only assume the reason you keep responding is an anonymous opinion makes you very angry?

irishman86

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I come on here to debate certain topics, you seem to come on here to attack the poster. I don't understand why you keep writing to me if you've no interest in debating with me, so I can only assume the reason you keep responding is an anonymous opinion makes you very angry?

Attack the poster, come off buddy. I think your posts are ****e though, there is no point discussing as ive read your comments and you clearly are biased. As for why I keep writing, well I could say the same off you, so far everything has been well assists dont count, goals dont count, awards dont count etc etc etc

fuzzydunlop85

The Golden Miller wrote: »

The original point you interjected in was me claiming he wouldn't score again unless he got a peno. So surely they are the conditions you want to take the bet on?

I didn't read more than 2 lines of your post as it was pure drivel. I'll take the bet that he scores again In the tournament (pens excluded ) for a straight up 50 euro. No need for an escrow, I've never welched on a bet in my life and I'll trust you'll pay up if bet wins. Respond here if you want the bet.

The Golden Miller

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

I didn't read more than 2 lines of your post as it was pure drivel. I'll take the bet that he scores again In the tournament (pens excluded ) for a straight up 50 euro. No need for an escrow, I've never welched on a bet in my life and I'll trust you'll pay up if bet wins. Respond here if you want the bet.

Yep

Trigger

I hope he scores a 2 yard tap in in the 97th min of the final that they are already winning 4-0 to win that bet...

The Golden Miller

astradave wrote: »

I hope he scores a 2 yard tap in in the 97th min of the final that they are already winning 4-0 to win that bet...

Wouldn't be unlike him. But sure we'll see