2016-17 UEFA Champions League

Andersonisgod

ceegee wrote: »

You could be right, just seems to me that replays showing linesmen to have made the wrong call happen in nearly every match.

I think the Herrera handball is another instance of how outcomes cloud our opinions on ref decisions. 9 times out of 10 he would have mis-hit that through ball and nobody would be mentioning it, but the ref wouldn't have been any better or worse had he not made that pass

For that though I think the criticism lies with our evaluations of refereeing. If the pass leads to nothing that shouldn't mean the ref should get off the hook. Ok, if a decision is very difficult or his view is obstructed and his assistants aren't relaying any info to him then I have sympathy for him, in the case of an obvious call like that handball the outcome of the football move absolutely shouldn't determine how he is viewed as an official. Though I understand what you're saying and inevitably because it leads to a goal it's highlighted as a mistake.

NIMAN

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I don't think anybody thinks it's a Juventus type situation involving bribing. In Europe it's more to do with the political power of Real Madrid and Florentino Perez and their commercial might, in Spain it's Madrid's political power and the cultural powers at play unique to that country.

So tell me this, do you think there aren't fans of Malaga, Leganes, Eibar, Granada etc who would say that Barca get favourable decisions against them?


Or small French teams v PSG
Or small Italian teams v Juve
Or small Portugese teams v Benfica/Porto.

Andersonisgod

irishman86 wrote: »

You cant quote Pique buddy :pac:
I cant remember who said it, but when Iniesta says something I will listen.
But Pique, no he is just a sore loser who hates Madrid. For me hes the sort of talented player who should not be let near the media, similar to Luke Fitzgerald in rugby
After PSG he really shoudlnt comment on european refs

Well I'm not quoting Pique tbf, journalist asked Vidal what he thought of Pique's comments and Vidal agreed with them then expanded on them. Like I said, it was very far from the norm of a regular post match interview even given that his team lost an important match. Just something worth considering.

Corholio

Players often say things like that after matches in frustration, when else do crazy comments come out but after matches? Especially for a hot head like Vidal who has said lots of stuff like that in the past.

Andersonisgod

NIMAN wrote: »

So tell me this, do you think there aren't fans of Malaga, Leganes, Eibar, Granada etc who would say that Barca get favourable decisions against them?


Or small French teams v PSG
Or small Italian teams v Juve
Or small Portugese teams v Benfica/Porto.

Definitely there are. Though comparing them to Barça or Real Madrid is unfair purely based on a big team will have more of the ball against these small teams, they'll make far more chances, there's far more potential for them to get incorrect calls in their favour than it is for smaller clubs in those matches. You must compare big clubs with big clubs for a fair breakdown of incorrect decisions. In an ideal world, these game changing decisions wouldn't be weighted towards big or small clubs, they'd be balanced and correct.

irishman86

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Well I'm not quoting Pique tbf, journalist asked Vidal what he thought of Pique's comments and Vidal agreed with them then expanded on them. Like I said, it was very far from the norm of a regular post match interview even given that his team lost an important match. Just something worth considering.

I take anything said by Vidal today with a pinch of salt, anything Pique says I usually greet it with "Oh you Gerard, youre pretty and have a banging wife but please give up your media dreams" :pac:

NIMAN

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Definitely there are. Though comparing them to Barça or Real Madrid is unfair purely based on a big team will have more of the ball against these small teams, they'll make far more chances, there's far more potential for them to get incorrect calls in their favour than it is for smaller clubs in those matches. You must compare big clubs with big clubs for a fair breakdown of incorrect decisions. In an ideal world, these game changing decisions wouldn't be weighted towards big or small clubs, they'd be balanced and correct.

I just think that human error isn't being factored into these bad calls enough?

kave2

TheCitizen wrote: »

Any neutral observer watching that tonight would have their suspicions. They wouldn't be able to stand them up but they'd have their suspicions nonetheless.

The match tonight was heavily skewed in favour of Real Madrid in terms of "decisions". It was a disgrace and ultimately undermined the integrity of the game.

A non penalty and offside goal.

If we had video ref today, game would probably finish 1:0 for Madrid. And Vidal should have been sent off much earlier.

Andersonisgod

Corholio wrote: »

Players often say things like that after matches in frustration, when else do crazy comments come out but after matches? Especially for a hot head like Vidal who has said lots of stuff like that in the past.

Not sure how often an opponent will openly accuse a club of robbery and biased refereeing though. It's very extreme. Like I said though, taken on an individual basis you can dismiss these things as "ah he's only a sore loser" or "he's a hot-head" but when a pattern starts to build up, that's tougher to dismiss.

Andersonisgod

NIMAN wrote: »

I just think that human error isn't being factored into these bad calls enough?

Human error is one thing, it's just when these errors continously benefit one club that questions should be asked.

kave2

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Human error is one thing, it's just when these errors continously benefit one club that questions should be asked.

This coming from Barca fan is quite hilarious tbh.

Corholio

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Not sure how often an opponent will openly accuse a club of robbery and biased refereeing though. It's very extreme. Like I said though, taken on an individual basis you can dismiss these things as "ah he's only a sore loser" or "he's a hot-head" but when a pattern starts to build up, that's tougher to dismiss.

Has there been a 'pattern' with Real this season in the Champions League?

Andersonisgod

Anyway Vidal's comments have been picked up by The Guardian so it's nice that somebody is paying attention there.

On that note I leave you, for even a tinfoil hat wearing eccentric grows weary from time to time, and if I don't sleep how can I possibly witness the miracle of Barcelona part 2 tomorrow?

Donnielighto

niallo27 wrote: »

Prefer giving players benefit of the doubt than ruining a great game.

If a player deserves to be sent off then it's their fault for timing the game. A ref is there to implement, only a certain amount of leeway should be allowed.

Corholio

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Anyway Vidal's comments have been picked up by The Guardian so it's nice that somebody is paying attention there.

On that note I leave you, for even a tinfoil hat wearing eccentric grows weary from time to time, and if I don't sleep how can I possibly witness the miracle of Barcelona part 2 tomorrow?

Shock as newspaper reports on something at a press conference. All the media will have all the comments from all the matches, silly trying to turn it into something dramatic.

NIMAN

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Human error is one thing, it's just when these errors continously benefit one club that questions should be asked.

But they aren't, they benefit all clubs, and the big ones more often, in all leagues.

NIMAN

Corholio wrote: »

Has there been a 'pattern' with Real this season in the Champions League?

Not that I know of. Just in this one game, does that make it a 'pattern'?

NIMAN

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Not sure how often an opponent will openly accuse a club of robbery and biased refereeing though. It's very extreme. Like I said though, taken on an individual basis you can dismiss these things as "ah he's only a sore loser" or "he's a hot-head" but when a pattern starts to build up, that's tougher to dismiss.

To bring a bit of balance to the madness, his manager said this tonight

"The referee probably wasn't up to the task," Ancelotti said.

"I don't think Real Madrid have any influence on referees. The officials tonight simply got it wrong. I had never been in favour of video technology, but I must admit it's necessary now."

Corholio

NIMAN wrote: »

To bring a bit of balance to the madness, his manager said this tonight

"The referee probably wasn't up to the task," Ancelotti said.

"I don't think Real Madrid have any influence on referees. The officials tonight simply got it wrong. I had never been in favour of video technology, but I must admit it's necessary now."

But Ancelotti is a former Real manager, he's part of the whole thing don't you know. I read an article online recently titled '32 times Ancelotti was wearing his Real jacket under his Bayern one'

kave2

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Oh well, looking forward to La Liga bringing in video technology in 2039 20 years after every other top league...

But ye, basically, you'll see.

Wash rinse repeat

Dirty Dingus McGee

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Well I'm not quoting Pique tbf, journalist asked Vidal what he thought of Pique's comments and Vidal agreed with them then expanded on them. Like I said, it was very far from the norm of a regular post match interview even given that his team lost an important match. Just something worth considering.

A player being pissed off and blaming the refs is far from the norm?

Rayne Wooney

Tin foil hat stuff to be fair, the referee obviously told the linesman not to raise his flag and give Madrid two offside goals in some kind of conspiracy to fùck over Barca who have 1 foot out of the competition. It had nothing to do with the offsides distance being just over a yard altogether in a high pressure game and FIFA training officials not to give offsides if they aren't completely sure. You can't add in video refs without a drastic changing how modern football flows.


4 goals against Bayern in a champions league quarter final, Ronaldo winning another Balon d'Or this year would cause some serious butt hurt. Here's hoping.

sligeach

If you're a Bayern fan you'd be well p1ssed off this morning. Ref ruined the match. 2 crucial wrong decisions cost Bayern the game(sending off and offside goal). They were the better side.

Liam O

sligeach wrote: »

If you're a Bayern fan you'd be well p1ssed off this morning. Ref ruined the match. 2 crucial wrong decisions cost Bayern the game(sending off and offside goal). They were the better side.

They had to be. They were losing.

Vidal made a bad tackle in the first 10 mins and so was on the tightrope and always a big chance of another tackle the ref would rightly or wrongly deem to be another yellow.

The first offside goal was ridiculous and should have been an easy one but there are plenty of them that you see every week.

The second one was difficult as the ball went almost straight across and as far as I remember the linesman was blocked off that side. Can happen.

Fwiw I thought Casemiro's "dive" was a clumsy tackle from Boateng and a foul. People will disagree but he was nowhere near the ball and there was contact.

Wrongway1985

Liam O wrote: »

Fwiw I thought Casemiro's "dive" was a clumsy tackle from Boateng and a foul. People will disagree but he was nowhere near the ball and there was contact.

Well thats worth nothing! If that's seriously not a dive to you I think you should pack it in tbh.

Rayne Wooney

If you look at Ronaldos second goal in real time he was probably onside by the time the lineman looked over after the ball was played.

To say it was an easy decision to make is just nonsense, it's an easy decision from a still picture with the correct camera angle from a height that allows you to see both player and ball obviously. Football will always have human error

sReq | uTeK

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Not sure anyone thinks bribing is really involved, but Florentino Perez is the most powerful President in football and Real Madrid, and by extension Spain, seem very powerful in European football. How much Uefa benefit financially from the relationship remains to be seen. How much does it impact on officiating? You judge for yourself. There's not much digging required to see how many key decisions have gone their way in Spain, whether that extends to Europe it's tough to say but seeing some of the pictures and videos of incidents from tonight it's very tough to justify that being just a poor night at the office for the officiating team and it's no surprise that Real Madrid vehemently oppose the introduction of video officiating.

How is the doping "allegedly" getting on over at Barcelona ?

bucketybuck

A new day, hopefully the conspiracy theorists won't be out of bed until late afternoon and we won't have to read any more of that scutter.

sReq | uTeK

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

If you look at Ronaldos second goal in real time he was probably onside by the time the lineman looked over after the ball was played.

To say it was an easy decision to make is just nonsense, it's an easy decision from a still picture with the correct camera angle from a height that allows you to see both player and ball obviously. Football will always have human error

And that's what makes it great. Over the course of a season variance wins and they typically even each other out. The good and bad decisions that is.

Wrongway1985

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

How is the doping "allegedly" getting on over at Barcelona ?

They included Real Madrid players too but those blood bags were binned so tis grand

Quazzie

Liam O wrote: »

The second one was difficult as the ball went almost straight across and as far as I remember the linesman was blocked off that side. Can happen.

Wasn't blocked off, but was way behind the ball so therefore could've never had seen Ronaldo was offside.

Bridge93

You would think with all the money the Barca players save through tax fraud that they could buy a few refs to even the playing field.

AdamD

Sour grapes from Vidal who should have been sent off ten minutes before he was.

fyfe79

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Tin foil hat stuff to be fair, the referee obviously told the linesman not to raise his flag and give Madrid two offside goals in some kind of conspiracy to fùck over Barca who have 1 foot out of the competition. It had nothing to do with the offsides distance being just over a yard altogether in a high pressure game and FIFA training officials not to give offsides if they aren't completely sure. You can't add in video refs without a drastic changing how modern football flows.


4 goals against Bayern in a champions league quarter final, Ronaldo winning another Balon d'Or this year would cause some serious butt hurt. Here's hoping.

There seems to be an implication that anyone who's disappointed with the officiating from last night, is only sore because Ronaldo got a hat-trick?

For what it's worth, I'm a Liverpool fan so therefore should I be in love with Barcelona because Suarez is with them now? No. Couldn't care less about Barcelona. Or Madrid. I didn't care when Ronaldo joined them years ago and I care less now. If anything, Milan are my "second" team, having grown up watching them with Van Basten and Gullit (thanks to the excellent Monday evening highlights show on RTE...ah, the memories).

It is possible to have concerns about the standard of officiating in a major European club match, and discuss it, without being accused of having a vendetta against a certain player because he played for a certain other team nearly 10 years ago.

Mushy

Just see on rte that neuer broke his foot trying to save one of the goals

astradave

astradave wrote: »

It's up to the officials to make the calls not the players. 2 of the goals were offside and Bayerns 2nd was offside too. The sending off was a joke and each official should be ashamed of themselves.

That does not take anything away from Ronaldos achievements and it's pretty petty to try use that

Whether you intend to mistake or not, the post is not about Ronaldo having the integrity.........

TheCitizen

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

And that's what makes it great. Over the course of a season variance wins and they typically even each other out. The good and bad decisions that is.

This luddite type attitude won't wash anymore. Video reffing has been trialled and it will be brought in, ridiculous that it took so long but it's coming now. Your bias is revealing itself in your luddite type comments.

inforfun

So Neuer finished the match with a broken foot.

the whole year inn

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

And that's what makes it great. Over the course of a season variance wins and they typically even each other out. The good and bad decisions that is.

What stats have you to prove any of this, I don't think Bayern care now if they get an offside goal in the bundisleagua. Video refs should be part of this game for years now, its an actual joke that is not.

GavRedKing

I reckon Barca will win but cant see them going through tonight, its a different prospect playing a much more organised Juve side trying to turn around a lead than it was against PSG.

Monaco v Dortmund could be another goal fest so should be a good night of football.

GavRedKing

GavRedKing wrote: »

I reckon Barca will win but cant see them going through tonight, its a different prospect playing a much more organised Juve side trying to turn around a lead than it was against PSG.

Monaco v Dortmund could be another goal fest so should be a good night of football.

That's my fear. Pick one game and miss a goal fest in another.
Me thinks the two TV's are coming out again tonight.

Shanotheslayer

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

How is the doping "allegedly" getting on over at Barcelona ?

Bridge93 wrote: »

You would think with all the money the Barca players save through tax fraud that they could buy a few refs to even the playing field.

Honestly lads, do yous not have anything better to do than trying to wind up AIG?

Literally no relevance to what people are talking about.

Get a hobby.

Jan_de_Bakker

If ye think last nights game was a disaster in officiating - wait till you see tonights .... It's Bjorn Kuipers ... Dutch ... may as well me Jordi fuking Catala.

Barca through ..

inforfun

UEFA better had send Makkelie then after his 9th awarded Ajax penalty in his 14th Ajax at home match.

jacool

And I thought the Man Utd vs Liverpool arguments were bad!
This is turning into Barca vs Real Madrid.

Facts: The refereeing was of a brutal standard last night.
3 goals could have been scratched off.
Real Madrid should have had a player sent off but didn't.
Marcelo is afraid of Ronaldo (if I had gone on that run, I would have wanted to shoot!)

For tonight, Juventus will score, and there is no way in the world that defence is conceding 5.
The other match will be a goal fest, but I couldn't call the outcome of the game or tie.
I'd like to see Juventus and Real Madrid kept apart in the semi-final draw.
I think Monaco (if they get through) vs Madrid would be a great semi-final.

jmayo

Video reffing has to come in eventually because the officials are making so many bad calls.
I don't think it is corruption in CL, although there has been some of it in various leagues and international competition in the past.

The game has gotten much faster and last night the linesman on one of the calls was miles behind the play.
He hadn't a clue if someone was offside or not.

I do think there is favouritism shown by football organisations towards certain big clubs.
The idea is to make sure that the big names get a chance to continue in competitions usually at expense of lesser teams.
I think some of that transfers down to officials who don't want to be seen to be rocking the boat.

Also something that reals grates on me is wafflers complaining how cheating has become a major blight on the game.
As if there was never cheating in soccer. :rolleyes:
What people neglect to mention is the so called "beautiful game" was the one that allowed hiost nations win world cups in most glaringly 1934, 1978 and probably more.

Ireland got screwed out of going to the 1982 world cup due to the Belgians habit of bribery much the same way as Anderlecht robbed Forest in 1984.

The game has always had a seedy element, but if anything wall to wall TV coverage has thrown a much need spotlight on proceedings and video reffing will help eliminate officials cockups.

Anyway here is hoping Dortmund get through tonight after being royally shafted by UEFA.

NukaCola

I seen worse calls for offsides. They were tight if we are all being honest. I cant understand the ref showing Vidal a second yellow but I've seen it happen before and worse in the EPL. These kinda calls have been happening forever so it should be no surprise that it keeps happening. Video technology is the only solution really. A human will never ever get every decision right. Officials should be helped do the best job possible.

inforfun

I know those individual mistakes can happen.
But in 1 match all against 1 team?
That is smelly.

And call for videorefs all you want.... they will just be added to the con.

AdamD

inforfun wrote: »

I know those individual mistakes can happen.
But in 1 match all against 1 team?
That is smelly.

And call for videorefs all you want.... they will just be added to the con.

All the decisions didn't go against Bayern, some went against Madrid too.

Jan_de_Bakker

Jan_de_Bakker wrote: »

If ye think last nights game was a disaster in officiating - wait till you see tonights .... It's Bjorn Kuipers ... Dutch ... may as well me Jordi fuking Catala.

Barca through ..

Bjorn Kuipers 117 international games
Totals: Home Away Total
Penalties 26 9 35

You may be right