So is Croke Park gone for the ASTI then?

evolving_doors

So is that that then, if they are awarding 'pay increases' to the TUI and 'pay deductions' to the ASTI then I take it Croke park is gone for ASTI?

The Department of Education is planning to implement pay freezes for members of the Association of Secondary Teachers of Ireland (ASTI) by asking rival union members to sign a consent form to avail of pay increases.

A circular is expected to be issued shortly which will detail how the department plans to implement pay deductions triggered by the ASTI’s decision to reject working additional hours.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/department-of-education-to-implement-pay-freezes-for-asti-teachers-1.2688067 *

Just wondering on what basis could they with-hold increments if they had an agreement themselves to end CP this June?
The article is it's usual garbled self, but are they implying that by awarding a pay increase to the TUI then that as taken as a pay-cut to the ASTI.. or is there further pay cuts on the way to the ASTI.




*Baring in mind where the article is coming from and it's usual threatening undertones to the 'baaad teachers'.

km79

Gebgbegb wrote: »

So is that that then, if they are awarding 'pay increases' to the TUI and 'pay deductions' to the ASTI then I take it Croke park is gone for ASTI?



http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/department-of-education-to-implement-pay-freezes-for-asti-teachers-1.2688067 *




*Baring in mind where the article is coming from and it's usual threatening undertones to the 'baaad teachers'.

Lovely stuff !
Further pay deductions under FEMPI they say .........FEMPI could be gone next month
Anyway I'll gladly takes those pay freezes in exchange for more family time !

deiseindublin

FEMPI is being voted on any day, isn't it?

Even reading this thread title makes me feel SO LET DOWN by the TUI. Still a kick in the gut to see how our >80% went to a <50%.

It seems clear cut in single union schools but you'd wonder how they'll administer the cuts in dual union schools.

evolving_doors

deiseindublin wrote: »

FEMPI is being voted on any day, isn't it?

Even reading this thread title makes me feel SO LET DOWN by the TUI. Still a kick in the gut to see how our >80% went to a <50%.

It seems clear cut in single union schools but you'd wonder how they'll administer the cuts in dual union schools.

Going by the article it would appear that those who want the 'pay increase' have to sign up for it.
But does this mean that those who don't sign up stay the same... or get a further pay cut?

evolving_doors

deiseindublin wrote: »

FEMPI is being voted on any day, isn't it?

Even reading this thread title makes me feel SO LET DOWN by the TUI. Still a kick in the gut to see how our >80% went to a <50%.

It seems clear cut in single union schools but you'd wonder how they'll administer the cuts in dual union schools.

I'm not too sure if there is an actual vote, if no-one cares then it probably wont be. Btu what I do know is that 'Before the end of June each year, the Minister for Public Expenditure is legally required to lay before the Dáil a report justifying the 'need' for extending the emergency legislation known as FEMPI'.

So I'd urge everyone to send a simple email to their local TD's and ask where they stand on the issue. Takes 2 minutes... https://www.whoismytd.com/

km79

Gebgbegb wrote: »

I'm not too sure if there is an actual vote, if no-one cares then it probably wont be. Btu what I do know is that 'Before the end of June each year, the Minister for Public Expenditure is legally required to lay before the Dáil a report justifying the 'need' for extending the emergency legislation known as FEMPI'.

So I'd urge everyone to send a simple email to their local TD's and ask where they stand on the issue. Takes 2 minutes... https://www.whoismytd.com/

done but like everything else the number of emails sent will probably barely hit double figures
teachers like to complain but do nothing about it

evolving_doors

km79 wrote: »

done but like everything else the number of emails sent will probably barely hit double figures
teachers like to complain but do nothing about it

Maybe on a national level, but when it comes down to it all politics is local in Ireland. There are a ton of swing voters in the last election (many teachers I had spoken to too) when pressed they all felt it would be because of local representation more so than tradition voting lines. If one of the several Td's gives me a satisfactory answer then they got my vote... But more importantly I'll be telling everyone else what they said.
Next election mightn't be that far away yet.
The worst thing we could do is let FEMPI trundle along while it's imposing nonsense on our profession, I've put on the green jersey for long enough now and gotten nothing but dogs abuse for being a teacher. To heck with public opinion.

theLuggage

Gebgbegb wrote: »

I'm not too sure if there is an actual vote, if no-one cares then it probably wont be. Btu what I do know is that 'Before the end of June each year, the Minister for Public Expenditure is legally required to lay before the Dáil a report justifying the 'need' for extending the emergency legislation known as FEMPI'.

So I'd urge everyone to send a simple email to their local TD's and ask where they stand on the issue. Takes 2 minutes... https://www.whoismytd.com/

Done!

TheDriver

On a side note, this addition to payscale 800, is it added onto the patscale and paid forever more coz the wording from dept website is addition to payscale buts others are saying once off?

evolving_doors

And also... does that mean that if/when Croke park is eventually done away with that the ASTI members will get the 800 along with the TUI, but the only difference is that the TUI members will have to keep doing the hours as per the agreement?

feardeas

Nobody can be surprised. This is what they said they would do. It could be a winter of discontent.

AFIK we, the ASTI, are taking strike action over the junior cycle anyway. I assume if the payment for S and S isn't forthcoming then there will be a ballot about withdrawing from that. If that is passed then there is, I assume, the distinct possibility that the schools will have to close.

Hope there's a grand plan somewhere lads.

evolving_doors

feardeas wrote: »

Nobody can be surprised. This is what they said they would do. It could be a winter of discontent.

AFIK we, the ASTI, are taking strike action over the junior cycle anyway. I assume if the payment for S and S isn't forthcoming then there will be a ballot about withdrawing from that. If that is passed then there is, I assume, the distinct possibility that the schools will have to close.

Hope there's a grand plan somewhere lads.

It's just getting more and more tangled, it's like trying to compare phone plans for most people, each time the dept. seems intent on highlighting the split between TUI and ASTI and muddying the waters. One union could really sort it all out and hit the reset button.

deiseindublin

I think ASTI are right though. The back money for S&S is due now, when we all signed up to S&S it had nothing to do with LRA. LRA is a new addition from the Gov and wasn't part of the deal that the money is now due from. ASTI have fulfilled their commitment and the money is due, end of.

I just wish TUI had held firm on it.

political analyst

Gebgbegb wrote: »

And also... does that mean that if/when Croke park is eventually done away with that the ASTI members will get the 800 along with the TUI, but the only difference is that the TUI members will have to keep doing the hours as per the agreement?

That would be unconstitutional, i.e. the principle of equality.

After all, the concessions that the ASTI won as a result of its industrial action back in 2000 and 2001 were also applied to the TUI and the ASTI.

gavwaldo

km79 wrote: »

done but like everything else the number of emails sent will probably barely hit double figures
teachers like to complain but do nothing about it

I'm not too sure if there is an actual vote, if no-one cares then it probably wont be. Btu what I do know is that 'Before the end of June each year, the Minister for Public Expenditure is legally required to lay before the Dáil a report justifying the 'need' for extending the emergency legislation known as FEMPI'.

So I'd urge everyone to send a simple email to their local TD's and ask where they stand on the issue. Takes 2 minutes... https://www.whoismytd.com/

Done and sent to my 4 TDs......good idea btw

doc_17

The minister is writing to the ASTI again this week. Probably nothing new in it. If there's not its just a waste of everyone's time.

evolving_doors

doc_17 wrote: »

The minister is writing to the ASTI again this week. Probably nothing new in it. If there's not its just a waste of everyone's time.

Well it wont be for him though, he'll say (or should I say, 'the media' will say for him) that teachers have refused to talk to the minister.

deiseindublin

Was anybody else listening to MN on SO'R this morning? It seems public service et al are the golden hen that lays the golden egg. I was violent listening to it.

km79

social welfare Christmas bonus to be reintroduced this year at a cost of 200 million euro per year
the good times are back
not sure how they can possibly sign off on FEMPI now

doc_17

deiseindublin wrote: »

Was anybody else listening to MN on SO'R this morning? It seems public service et al are the golden hen that lays the golden egg. I was violent listening to it.

Was he not saying that the exchequer finances were the golden hen that lays the golden egg and that it's better to get a little all the time instead of bleeding dry?

deiseindublin

I took it that he was saying that we couldn't give back to everybody at the same time! It was answered in relation to public service and paycuts.

feardeas

km79 wrote: »

social welfare Christmas bonus to be reintroduced this year at a cost of 200 million euro per year
the good times are back
not sure how they can possibly sign off on FEMPI now

As of the announcement of Brexit this morning they can and will.

political analyst

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0624/798008-teachers-ultimatum-talks/

The Department of Education has given the Association of Secondary Teachers in Ireland an ultimatum that if its members do not agree to co-operate with the Lansdowne Road Agreement by 30 June, they face serious consequences including potential compulsory redundancy.

Due to increasing numbers of pupils, there probably isn't a significant number of secondary teachers whose jobs are "over-quota", i.e. out of line with the pupil-teacher ratio.

However, in a separate letter, Education Minister Richard Bruton extended an invitation to further talks, outlining amendments to how the disputed hours could be worked.
An ASTI spokesperson confirmed that the union had received correspondence which will be considered on Monday and Tuesday when the union leadership meets in Limerick.
The Minister's letter said he is aware of teachers' concerns regarding the Croke Park hours and is willing to provide flexibility in how they are used to those cooperating with the LRA.
He said that as a first step, the maximum time available for planning and development work on "other than a whole-school basis" is being increased from five to eight hours from the beginning of the 2016/2017 school year.
He noted that it will increase to 10 hours from the beginning of the 2017/2018 school year.
He said that a review of the hours, due to get under way shortly, will have regard to teachers' professional judgment, system and school requirements and experience to date of best practice in the utilisation of the hours.

km79

feardeas wrote: »

As of the announcement of Brexit this morning they can and will.

They can not on one hand continue giving away whilst with the other hand taking under FEMPI
We are either ALL in a financial crisis or we are not

evolving_doors

km79 wrote: »

They can not on one hand continue giving away whilst with the other hand taking under FEMPI
We are either ALL in a financial crisis or we are not

They shouldn't but they can... It's all about votes. Who cares about teachers pay?

km79

Gebgbegb wrote: »

They shouldn't but they can... It's all about votes. Who cares about teachers pay?

Hopefully us
The union needs to stay strong on this
We voted last month
We knew the possible consequences
Nothing has changed
If they cave on this next week I'll vomit

deiseindublin

Interesting to see the new Garda recruits being offer €4k pa rent allowance to sign up to LRA. How do Dublin based Gardaí on a full time wage need the €4k but new teacher with only a few hours part time not need it?

feardeas

km79 wrote: »

They can not on one hand continue giving away whilst with the other hand taking under FEMPI
We are either ALL in a financial crisis or we are not

While it is early days yet it seems as if the budget in October will possibly involve no give aways. At that stage if Cameron's timetable stands the negotiations on Brexit will be only beginning. There will be much uncertainty and if our largest trading partner, a billion a week, is going through some sort of recession then that will only increase the uncertainty and this will be compounded if stirling is weak against the euro.

If there is any money or 'fiscal space' then I imagine there will be a push on the spending side towards improving services, God knows anyone involved in education will be able to attest as to how they have been cut e.g. Guidance posts rather than unwinding FEMPI which they will claim will allow for an orderly process.

As for the point about teacher's salaries not mattering I'm afraid that in the context of upheaval on markets, in the EU and mutterings about a border poll they probably lose some of their importance in Government circles in fairness.

I have no doubt that the leadership of the union have thought about all this. [Forgive the sarcasm:):):) ]

2011abc

Damn them and their fiscal space ! Is that the same space where they subtracted ten from twelve and got four or six rather than two (billion)preelection ? Teachers have given enough .Time to start saying no for once .And if that makes me a mitant left winger you can call me Karl Marx .I dare say DOB's Indo would anyway .Its already referred to members of the ASTI Fightback thus and passed remarksabout one lads private business .

gaiscioch

Well done to the members of the GRA (and AGSI)!


GRA will not re-enter talks on Lansdowne Road Agreement

Both the GRA and the AGSI have rejected the Lansdowne Road Agreement
The row between the Garda Representative Association and the Government over the Lansdowne Road Agreement has worsened after the GRA leadership decided not to re-enter talks.

The GRA is one of a small number of unions who have rejected the Lansdowne Road Agreement, and could face financial penalties for repudiating it from 1 July when it comes into force.

Negotiations between the Department of Justice, the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and An Garda Síochána aimed at breaking the deadlock broke down on Thursday.

Throughout the day, the GRA executive met to decide whether there was a basis for returning to talks.

However, it is understood that the executive felt that members could not accept doing unpaid extra hours, and that their grievance was legitimate and reasonable.

The Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors has also rejected the LRA.

Under the HRA, gardaí were obliged to do an extra 30 unpaid hours per year until the end of December 2015.

In the interim, a major review of garda pay, conditions and industrial relations issues - including the lack of full rights for the garda associations to negotiate and to strike - was to have been concluded by June 2014.

However, the review never reached completion, and the chair of the Review Group - former Labour Court Deputy Chairperson Ray McGee - resigned recently.

In January, gardaí ceased doing the additional 30 hours - resulting in a significant increase in the garda overtime bill.

They stress that this did not constitute a breach of the Haddington Road Agreement, as they were only ever liable to do the additional hours until last December.

Unions like the GRA and AGSI, which are deemed to have repudiated the LRA, are at risk of having penalties imposed on their members from 1 July under financial emergency legislation - including non-restoration of pay or allowances, an increment freeze, and the loss of protection from compulsory redundancy.

This possibility is formally confirmed in Department of Justice briefing notes for Minister Frances Fitzgerald, which state that the "possible application" of an increment freeze for gardaí "will arise for consideration in July" if the GRA and the AGSI have not accepted the LRA.

The GRA insists that all outstanding HRA issues - including the review - must be completed before FEMPI emergency legislation penalties would be imposed.

However, garda management, the Department of Justice and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform are insisting on imposing the Lansdowne Road Agreement - including the disputed unpaid hours - despite the fact that the terms of the HRA had not been completed.

The AGSI is still in a talks process, and is considering draft documents.

Teachers belonging to the Association of Secondary Teachers in Ireland are facing similar penalties from July as they have voted to cease doing their 33 additional "Croke Park" hours.

The ASTI Standing Committee is meeting today and tomorrow to discuss the outcome of that ballot and to decide whether to issue a formal directive to secondary teachers to stop working the hours.

evolving_doors

A bit of solidarity goes a long way.