Euro 2016 - Group E - Belgium vs Ireland, 2 pm, RTE & ITV

NIMAN

How do you folk see the next 2 years leading into the WC in Russia?

Do you think we will try to blood some new young players, or will MON stick with the old heads (we are the oldest squad in the EC)?

I think he will be tempted to stick with what he knows in the hope of qualifying. Personally I think some players should be politely told they are no longer required and its time to retire.

Time will tell.

gosplan

Green Fella wrote: »

I would imagine the first 4 things are intertwined. Not negative about the fans they are our only saving grace. We are 4th seeds and its not a huge leap to think we will finish 4th. O'Neill is past his sell by date, this will be proved once again on Wednesday sadly.

So is Roy Hodgson, McCarthy was never a great manager, Jack wasn't even really a manager.

I'm not sure what you expect but we're the Irish national team. Managers on the up or at their peak don't come to us.

Green Fella

gosplan wrote: »

I'm not sure what you expect but we're the Irish national team. Managers on the up or at their peak don't come to us.

Yes we are were management careers come to die

NIMAN

Maybe if we took a chance and went for an up-and-coming manager with fresh ideas, rather than an old head we know, but who has old ideas?

I'm sure plenty of young foreign coaches would be interested in the job.

gosplan

Green Fella wrote: »

Yes we are were management careers come to die

As mentioned, not if you get someone young.

Bu the Irish public won't go for an unknown.

We need like an Irish Slavan Bilic or something.

Still won't make a difference when an in-form Belgium come to town.

We can be organised and spirited as you like but a combination of pace and precision is disastrous for us.

Green Fella

NIMAN wrote: »

Maybe if we took a chance and went for an up-and-coming manager with fresh ideas, rather than an old head we know, but who has old ideas?

I'm sure plenty of young foreign coaches would be interested in the job.

I agree fully but it will be probably be some flavour of the month whos on good terms with the FAI and has a good agent. Im just looking up the odds of next manager and its depressing reading, names like:

Roy Keane
Owen Coyle
Glenn Hoddle
Paul Jewell
Robbie Keane
Dave Bassett
Brian Kerr
Allardyce
Terry Venables
Curbishley
Phil Brown
Steve Bruce
George Graham
David O Leary
Kevin Keegan
Mick McCarthy
Joe Kinnear


Very sad to see. If this is the future it is bleak times ahead. Some real characters there, it could be a fun journey with some but I would fear for us on the pitch. The Ireland football team is like a timewarp to the 80s in every aspect

The_Honeybadger

Green Fella wrote: »

Its been outlined earlier in this thread but really there is no excuse for the other night, time wasting 10 minutes into a game, players in panic mode if they have the ball, and instructed to pump everything up to a totally isolated man. The subs could be written on a beer mat before the match, so predictable.

Tactically clueless, a monkey in a suit would do a better job. We came to lie down and die, and we got what we deserved. Its sad to see expectations are so low, are players are limited but we are capable of alot better than the other night. Belgium will be exposed again very soon in this tournament.

Agree we should be doing a bit better and should be better organised. All three goals the last day were very preventable and hopefully the team will learn from it. Losing Walters was a huge blow as he would have supported long better than what we saw on Saturday.

Should MON move on I'm really struggling to think who would even want the job. We have an ageing squad with very little quality. No established manager will take it on and they won't want to roll the dice on a young manager after the Staunton debacle.

Dempsey

Against Sweden, MON failed to deal with Olsson bombing forward in any way and he continued to look at McCarthy pointing out passes than look for the ball which resulted in alot of hoofball.

The Belgium game, both McCarthy and Clark should have been dropped for their mistakes in the previous game. Again, McCarthy not looking for the ball resulted in hoofball and to an isolated lone striker which meant nobody could.get there to win the 2nd ball.

All these things can be fixed by good coaching/management. Himself and Keane have failed with basic stuff

Green Fella

mickeyk wrote: »

Agree we should be doing a bit better and should be better organised. All three goals the last day were very preventable and hopefully the team will learn from it. Losing Walters was a huge blow as he would have supported long better than what we saw on Saturday.

Should MON move on I'm really struggling to think who would even want the job. We have an ageing squad with very little quality. No established manager will take it on and they won't want to roll the dice on a young manager after the Staunton debacle.

I agree that a good point, it will be a real problem finding a decent manager who will take this job. I foresee one of the names on the list above taking it as one last job before retirement.

Ideally someone young with tactical nous, ambition, motivation who isn't afraid to attack. Could somebody like Eddie Howe from Bournemouth be tempted in with the right package? That is the height of what we could hope to attract. I dont see the FAI going for someone like that one bit. The sad fact is the FAI will draw up a shortlist from the list of names a few posts up, and Eamon Dunphy will give his opinion and whoevers left that wants it will get the job.

NIMAN

Green Fella wrote: »

I agree fully but it will be probably be some flavour of the month whos on good terms with the FAI and has a good agent. Im just looking up the odds of next manager and its depressing reading, names like:

Roy Keane
Owen Coyle
Glenn Hoddle
Paul Jewell
Robbie Keane
Dave Bassett
Brian Kerr
Allardyce
Terry Venables
Curbishley
Phil Brown
Steve Bruce
George Graham
David O Leary
Kevin Keegan
Mick McCarthy
Joe Kinnear


Very sad to see. If this is the future it is bleak times ahead. Some real characters there, it could be a fun journey with some but I would fear for us on the pitch. The Ireland football team is like a timewarp to the 80s in every aspect

A depressing list I agree.

Why must the manager be Irish or British?

Also, why are we getting odds on the next manager when MON just agreed a new 2yr deal?

The_Honeybadger

Green Fella wrote: »

I agree that a good point, it will be a real problem finding a decent manager who will take this job. I foresee one of the names on the list above taking it as one last job before retirement.

Ideally someone young with tactical nous, ambition, motivation who isn't afraid to attack. Could somebody like Eddie Howe from Bournemouth be tempted in with the right package? That is the height of what we could hope to attract. I dont see the FAI going for someone like that one bit. The sad fact is the FAI will draw up a shortlist from the list of names a few posts up, and Eamon Dunphy will give his opinion and whoevers left that wants it will get the job.

Howe will have some very tasty offers in front of him when he decides to move so no chance. The money in the EPL is mind blowing and we can't match it even with Denis o'brien backing it. The FAI will want a safe pair of hands, they will be wary of young managers because of the Staunton era and of foreigners due to trappatoni who was indifferent to the role, didn't bother scouting players etc. I really don't think he was that bothered about whether we won games or not.

Every name on that list is more depressing than the next. That's my point from earlier, better the devil you know and all that.

Green Fella

NIMAN wrote: »

A depressing list I agree.

Why must the manager be Irish or British?

Also, why are we getting odds on the next manager when MON just agreed a new 2yr deal?

The odds are usually up on most manager jobs. I cant believe Keane is odds on favourite, Ive said on here I dont hold him responsbible for the current mess but I certainly would not be behind him taking over after O'Neill. I really see that being an unpopular appointment if things turn sour with O'Neill.

It will be interesting to see what the lad say on RTE Wednesday if we get thumped again, they might not hold back this time, and as far I recall Brady and Giles have been involved in picking Irish managers before. And off course Dunphy will throw in his opinions and get people talking.

The_Honeybadger

Green Fella wrote: »

The odds are usually up on most manager jobs. I cant believe Keane is odds on favourite, Ive said on here I dont hold him responsbible for the current mess but I certainly would not be behind him taking over after O'Neill. I really see that being an unpopular appointment if things turn sour with O'Neill.

It will be interesting to see what the lad say on RTE Wednesday if we get thumped again, they might not hold back this time, and as far I recall Brady and Giles have been involved in picking Irish managers before. And off course Dunphy will throw in his opinions and get people talking.

Dunphy is a national embarrassment at this stage. Did you hear his rant about Delaney being left at home on Saturday, totally out of context and nothing to do with the match that the panel were trying to analyse. You can actually see Brady getting frustrated every time he opens his mouth. Hopefully Rte will can him after the Euros.

I quite like Brady and would value his opinion. He talks a lot of sense imo

Green Fella

mickeyk wrote: »

Howe will have some very tasty offers in front of him when he decides to move so no chance. The money in the EPL is mind blowing and we can't match it even with Denis o'brien backing it. The FAI will want a safe pair of hands, they will be wary of young managers because of the Staunton era and of foreigners due to trappatoni who was indifferent to the role, didn't bother scouting players etc. I really don't think he was that bothered about whether we won games or not.

Every name on that list is more depressing than the next. That's my point from earlier, better the devil you know and all that.

Yeah Howe is probably out of reach for us at this point, he will probably be more interested in the England job internationally and should get it eventually if he wants it. The rest of your post is really spot on, the FAI will certainly be afraid to go foreign after the problems with Trap and Stauntons reign will put them off youth or inexperience. We can rule any non British/Irish person off the list instantly. Karl Robinson is another emerging young manager. I know MK Dons got relegated but we cant have too high expectations. Sadly he doesnt fit the bill with the FAI. We could be more likely to see a Steve Evans type from the Championship.

I was talking to a guy I know who coaches with the FAI about this the other night. He said 2 potential names there was gossip about were David O Leary and Stephen Kenny. But obviously its a long way from a new manager being appointed, but apparently certain people hold them in very high regard. If high up individuals who call the shots are swayed and agree they could be 2 names to watch out for. O'Leary done very well at Leeds, there was big fall outs at Villa but I suppose time is a healer. I'm unsure how his stint in Egypt went, but he was a terrific player and at times a good manager.

Green Fella

mickeyk wrote: »

Dunphy is a national embarrassment at this stage. Did you hear his rant about Delaney being left at home on Saturday, totally out of context and nothing to do with the match that the panel were trying to analyse. You can actually see Brady getting frustrated every time he opens his mouth. Hopefully Rte will can him after the Euros.

I quite like Brady and would value his opinion. He talks a lot of sense imo

Dunphy can be knowledgeable enough sometimes but he really just trolls, brings out an agenda and tries to stir things too much. Brady is decent, but I notice hes stopped calling Eamon out on his bull**** like he used to years ago when they were having blazing rows.

The_Honeybadger

I wouldn't get too worried about the next manager. We have what we have for now, unless the WC campaign starts very badly I'd expect o'neill and Keane to finish out the qualifiers. We got a kind enough draw but the dearth of quality in the squad is a major issue. We will surely have several retirements after the euros. There is nothing coming through and even getting players through the granny rule is no longer an option. The prestige of international football is no longer what it was and the EPL clubs do not want their players off playing extra games when they could be resting during the international breaks. Things do not look good for us IMO and I don't see any real chance of improvement in the short term.

Green Fella

Potential players for us are probably looking at us during the Euros counting their lucky stars and saying nah not for me. I wouldnt blame them, who wants to be a carthorse under O'Neill while the team takes the role of cannon fodder for any half decent side. It would damage their earning potential.

JustTheOne

We don't have the players.

But neither does northern Ireland and they are on 3 points and us on 1.

Green Fella

JustTheOne wrote: »

We don't have the players.

But neither does northern Ireland and they are on 3 points and us on 1.

They are a different class to us I'm afraid. Its sad I imagine most of us never thought we would see that but fair play to them, great manager, just shows what you can achieve with small resources.

NIMAN

Stephen Kenny? Seriously?

Alonso77

NIMAN wrote: »

Stephen Kenny? Seriously?

Could do a lot worse at the moment. At least he gets his teams to play attacking passing progressive football. But I suppose he's not a 'big name' for the sky sports barstoolers who prob wanted Paul jewel or Phil Brown in as Ireland manager not so long ago.

NIMAN

LoI to International football, now thats some step up.

Alonso77

NIMAN wrote: »

LoI to International football, now thats some step up.

Ya lol indeed, What clubs did the current Northern Ireland manager ply his trade at before he got his current job?

Get back on your barstool.

Lol indeed

Richard Hillman

I think a big mistake was to play Hoolahan as the second striker. Unless Ireland have a rake of possession, it is not really what he is capable of.

I think the first game we used a similar system to Leicester. Long was Vardy, Walters was Okasaki, Hoolahan was Mahrez, Whelan and McCarthy were Kante and Drinkwater, and Hendrick played a bit of a wider role as Albrighton.

When Okasaki was unavailable for Leicester, they didn't just throw Mahrez as the second striker. They put Olloa up there.

O'Neill should have went with another attacking option, instead of just pushing Hoolahan up there.

Leicester are the absolute template of how to play agianst High-Possession teams. We did not play Leicester football.

RedemptionZ

Alonso77 wrote: »

Ya lol indeed, What clubs did the current Northern Ireland manager ply his trade at before he got his current job?

Get back on your barstool.

Lol indeed

He meant LOI, as in League of Ireland!

Mec27

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I think a big mistake was to play Hoolahan as the second striker. Unless Ireland have a rake of possession, it is not really what he is capable of.

I think the first game we used a similar system to Leicester. Long was Vardy, Walters was Okasaki, Hoolahan was Mahrez, Whelan and McCarthy were Kante and Drinkwater, and Hendrick played a bit of a wider role as Albrighton.

When Okasaki was unavailable for Leicester, they didn't just throw Mahrez as the second striker. They put Olloa up there.

O'Neill should have went with another attacking option, instead of just pushing Hoolahan up there.

Leicester are the absolute template of how to play agianst High-Possession teams. We did not play Leicester football.

True. Hoolihan is pretty good but he is not Kaka 2005 or Riquelme. Throwing a pretty unathletic guy behind Long is not going to do anything to worry the opposition when there is absolutely no support.

Alonso77

RedemptionZ wrote: »

He meant LOI, as in League of Ireland!

Ha ha so what? same dumb sentiment

RedemptionZ

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I think a big mistake was to play Hoolahan as the second striker. Unless Ireland have a rake of possession, it is not really what he is capable of.

I think the first game we used a similar system to Leicester. Long was Vardy, Walters was Okasaki, Hoolahan was Mahrez, Whelan and McCarthy were Kante and Drinkwater, and Hendrick played a bit of a wider role as Albrighton.

When Okasaki was unavailable for Leicester, they didn't just throw Mahrez as the second striker. They put Olloa up there.

O'Neill should have went with another attacking option, instead of just pushing Hoolahan up there.

Leicester are the absolute template of how to play agianst High-Possession teams. We did not play Leicester football.

Agree, but do we have the pace to play Leicester style counter-attacking? We don't have near the ability that is found in that side either but few do. This is really really limited bunch of lads. Not only skill wise but also athletically. And I can't see that changing any time soon. England produces the majority of our players for most of their formative years and Irish players will rarely be brought in for natural athleticism, we're not a particularly big or fast people. They exist, but there's a good chance it'll be too late for them by the time their skill level would adequately match their athleticism. Probably switched to GAA or Rugby. Not that these lads would be Ronaldo but they could make a career out of it and do a job for the international team. When England decides which of our players are good enough to be pro it really really hampers our chances of developing a squad. I know you can go pro from LOI but it's not common and you could have lost a lot of players to other sports by then.

Cypher_sounds

NIMAN wrote: »

LoI to International football, now thats some step up.

How's Michael O Neill doing?

Kobe248

Alonso77 wrote: »

Ya lol indeed, What clubs did the current Northern Ireland manager ply his trade at before he got his current job?

Get back on your barstool.

Lol indeed

He said LOI buddy not LOL

Alonso77

Kobe248 wrote: »

He said LOI buddy not LOL

Yes I realise that now (even though he said Lol) and I've acknowledged it. That does not change his sneery snide attitude towards the LOI which unfortunately Delaney and the lads at the FAI seem to share too.

NIMAN

Alonso77 wrote: »

Yes I realise that now (even though he said Lol) and I've acknowledged it. That does not change his sneery snide attitude towards the LOI which unfortunately Delaney and the lads at the FAI seem to share too.

I am a LoI season ticket holder, so I think I am allowed to make my point.

Alonso77

NIMAN wrote: »

I am a LoI season ticket holder, so I think I am allowed to make my point.

Very good, you can make your point and I can challenge it. You implied that Stephen Kenny would be out of his depth at international level and I pointed to Michael O'.Neill being at Rovers before he got the Northern Ireland job

Now being you are an LOI season ticket holder, how you could be so dismissive of such a possible choice? And also, again, who is your suggestion for next Ireland manager since you feel that a successful LOI manager could not 'seriously' be a candidate?

NIMAN

I just think the step up is too much of a gap.
I am a fan of LoI football, but there's a full level or two of professional football between that and international management (in my opinion of course).

SK might well may it at international level, who knows until he has a go. But if he had so much potential then I would think that a higher level club than a LoI club (and Dunfermline) would have employed him by now. And I say this as a Derry City fan, so I have first hand of SK doing a good job. But LoI and international football are miles apart.

As for who I would like to see do it, well I don't have a name on the tip of my tongue. But I would like us to move for a foreign manager. I know people will say, "we had the Trap", but he was an old foreign manager with old ideas and set in his ways. New up and coming managers have new ideas, a different way to approach the game.

Maybe we should be trying to discover the new Unai Emery, Pochettino, Slavin Bilic, Paulo Sousa or Karanka?

No, instead we will have MON, then follow him probably with Keano, then someone like Tony Pulis.

Alonso77

NIMAN wrote: »

I just think the step up is too much of a gap.
I am a fan of LoI football, but there's a full level or two of professional football between that and international management (in my opinion of course).

SK might well may it at international level, who knows until he has a go. But if he had so much potential then I would think that a higher level club than a LoI club (and Dunfermline) would have employed him by now. And I say this as a Derry City fan, so I have first hand of SK doing a good job. But LoI and international football are miles apart.

As for who I would like to see do it, well I don't have a name on the tip of my tongue. But I would like us to move for a foreign manager. I know people will say, "we had the Trap", but he was an old foreign manager with old ideas and set in his ways. New up and coming managers have new ideas, a different way to approach the game.

Maybe we should be trying to discover the new Unai Emery, Pochettino, Slavin Bilic, Paulo Sousa or Karanka?

No, instead we will have MON, then follow him probably with Keano, then someone like Tony Pulis.

That does not wash for me considering the great job O'Neill has done with Northern Ireland. Fair enough it's all about opinions and we'll agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Alonso77

Also apologies for barstool comment, down the years i have heard a lot of dismissive comments from lads who've never seen or been to a LOI game. Tis aggravating

DeanAustin

Green Fella wrote: »

They are a different class to us I'm afraid. Its sad I imagine most of us never thought we would see that but fair play to them, great manager, just shows what you can achieve with small resources.

Different class?!? Behave yourself.

They're doing a bit better at the moment but they've also had easier games.

If you think they're doing better with their resources than us, and this is not just the cyclical nature of football, structurally, what do you think the North is doing better than us?

The Talking Bread

Green Fella wrote: »

They are a different class to us I'm afraid. Its sad I imagine most of us never thought we would see that but fair play to them, great manager, just shows what you can achieve with small resources.

Ah stop!!

Green Fella

NIMAN wrote: »

I just think the step up is too much of a gap.
I am a fan of LoI football, but there's a full level or two of professional football between that and international management (in my opinion of course).

SK might well may it at international level, who knows until he has a go. But if he had so much potential then I would think that a higher level club than a LoI club (and Dunfermline) would have employed him by now. And I say this as a Derry City fan, so I have first hand of SK doing a good job. But LoI and international football are miles apart.

As for who I would like to see do it, well I don't have a name on the tip of my tongue. But I would like us to move for a foreign manager. I know people will say, "we had the Trap", but he was an old foreign manager with old ideas and set in his ways. New up and coming managers have new ideas, a different way to approach the game.

Maybe we should be trying to discover the new Unai Emery, Pochettino, Slavin Bilic, Paulo Sousa or Karanka?

No, instead we will have MON, then follow him probably with Keano, then someone like Tony Pulis.

Agree with alot of that

Although the sad fact is we probably wouldn't be attractive enough to tempt Tony Pulis in. I would say Championship level managers are probably all we could tempt, but doesnt mean we cant try.

edgecutter

Green Fella wrote: »

Agree with alot of that

Although the sad fact is we probably wouldn't be attractive enough to tempt Tony Pulis in. I would say Championship level managers are probably all we could tempt, but doesnt mean we cant try.

Management isn't the issue. Management wasn't the reason we lost on Saturday, we simply don't have the players. We need to focus our attention on improving grassroots and begin to invest in our own league. It may take 10-20 years, but at least we will start to compete with other countries.

Green Fella

edgecutter wrote: »

Management isn't the issue. Management wasn't the reason we lost on Saturday, we simply don't have the players. We need to focus our attention on improving grassroots and begin to invest in our own league. It may take 10-20 years, but at least we will start to compete with other countries.

I dont agree. O'Neill is way out of his depth and being totally exposed at this tournament.

McCarthy should have been dropped after the first game as should Clark, not only were the not dropped and were at fault big time vs Belgium, they will probably start the next one! McCarthy will probably get the armband, O'Neill is stubborn and rewards mediocrity.

He set out the team to time waste and sky every ball from minute 1, he didnt even have the nous to throw another big man Murphy up top to help Long. You can name O'Neills subs like McClean , McGeady, Keane from minute 1, and probably the exact minute he would throw them on. And always too late. He is that predictable.Half the lads on the bench shouldnt have bothered coming out, O'Neill doesnt trust them to play.

blukyt

edgecutter wrote: »

Management isn't the issue. Management wasn't the reason we lost on Saturday, we simply don't have the players. We need to focus our attention on improving grassroots and begin to invest in our own league. It may take 10-20 years, but at least we will start to compete with other countries.

Focus should not be on results in the developmental stage, but just on the quality of the players and the football. Because Ls are gonna come aplenty, but as quality improves the results will naturally follow. A lot of patience is needed. We are not too small a country to produce better quality footballers.

Dolph Starbeam

edgecutter wrote: »

Management isn't the issue. Management wasn't the reason we lost on Saturday, we simply don't have the players. We need to focus our attention on improving grassroots and begin to invest in our own league. It may take 10-20 years, but at least we will start to compete with other countries.

Couldn't agree with this more. O'Neill might not be the greatest manager in the world but it doesn't matter who is in charge, we still lack the players. We relied for too long on PL clubs developing our young players, that is happening less now as young Irish players have to compete with a lot more foreign young players. The FAI were not prepared. We could even follow Iceland's system, we have 10 times their population, all age groups have to have UEFA qualified coaches with the emphasis on technique.

We all seem to see what is wrong but it will never change, the FAI don't seem to care about grass roots football or even the LOI. They are just happy to see is qualify for the odd international tournament.

Dolph Starbeam

Green Fella wrote: »

I dont agree. O'Neill is way out of his depth and being totally exposed at this tournament.

McCarthy should have been dropped after the first game as should Clark, not only were the not dropped and were at fault big time vs Belgium, they will probably start the next one! McCarthy will probably get the armband, O'Neill is stubborn and rewards mediocrity.

He set out the team to time waste and sky every ball from minute 1, he didnt even have the nous to throw another big man Murphy up top to help Long. You can name O'Neills subs like McClean , McGeady, Keane from minute 1, and probably the exact minute he would throw them on. And always too late. He is that predictable.Half the lads on the bench shouldnt have bothered coming out, O'Neill doesnt trust them to play.

And replace McCarthy with who? As shown in the Belarus match, we have very little squad depth. Do you really think Stephen Quinn would have not made any mistakes against Belgium?

Again, as shown in the Belarus game, O'Neill has very little choice outside the first 11, I don't blame him for not trusting many of the other players after that performance, it was desgraceful. The problems run a lot deeper than O'Neill. It's very easy to use him as a scapegoat though.

gosplan

Dolph Starbeam wrote: »

And replace McCarthy with who? As shown in the Belarus match, we have very little squad depth. Do you really think Stephen Quinn would have not made any mistakes against Belgium?

Again, as shown in the Belarus game, O'Neill has very little choice outside the first 11, I don't blame him for not trusting many of the other players after that performance, it was desgraceful. The problems run a lot deeper than O'Neill. It's very easy to use him as a scapegoat though.

This exactly.

A lot of the comments on here are a joke over the last few days tbh.

Overhype the team and then when they don't meet our unrealistic expectations pick a scapegoat, whether it's manager, national league, youth football whatever.

People who don't have a clue about football looked at first Belgium defeat and said 'they're in disarray, we should be beating them'.

forget the fact they've only lost two competitive matches in the last five years
forget the fact that they've champions league players all over the team

'I saw them against Italy, they're nothing special'

...

'What, we lost?'

'fcuking O'Neill and Delaney'

blah blah blah

DeanAustin

edgecutter wrote: »

Management isn't the issue. Management wasn't the reason we lost on Saturday, we simply don't have the players. We need to focus our attention on improving grassroots and begin to invest in our own league. It may take 10-20 years, but at least we will start to compete with other countries.

Exactly right. In any given game, we might win despite not being as good as the opposition. In fact, we may even get a Big Jack and overachieve for a while. But the fact of the matter is that, on paper, we aren't a very good side and not in the same league as Belgium. That translated on to the pitch on Saturday where we got soundly beaten.

The problem with just blaming management is that we are simplifying the problem to one man. That's stupid because even if we get another Jack Charlton, within a few years, he'll get figured out and we are back to square one because we aren't addressing the underlying problem - we aren't producing players that are good enough and the fix isn't simple or short term.

RedemptionZ

gosplan wrote: »

This exactly.

A lot of the comments on here are a joke over the last few days tbh.

Overhype the team and then when they don't meet our unrealistic expectations pick a scapegoat, whether it's manager, national league, youth football whatever.

People who don't have a clue about football looked at first Belgium defeat and said 'they're in disarray, we should be beating them'.

forget the fact they've only lost two competitive matches in the last five years
forget the fact that they've champions league players all over the team

'I saw them against Italy, they're nothing special'

...

'What, we lost?'

'fcuking O'Neill and Delaney'

blah blah blah

Delaney does deserve a huge amount of the criticism. He oversees the FAI who have done absolutely **** all to produce players in Ireland. We could cope with shipping them off to England before but there's too much competition now. It's just not good enough anymore. Blaming youth football is by extension another very valid criticism. Why do we have such a bad squad? Because of our youth system. It's not that difficult to solve it but it would take 20 years before we really start to see any fruition and it would involve stepping on a few of Delaney's mates' toes so probably won't happen.

Green Fella

I

gosplan wrote: »

This exactly.

A lot of the comments on here are a joke over the last few days tbh.

Overhype the team and then when they don't meet our unrealistic expectations pick a scapegoat, whether it's manager, national league, youth football whatever.

People who don't have a clue about football looked at first Belgium defeat and said 'they're in disarray, we should be beating them'.

forget the fact they've only lost two competitive matches in the last five years
forget the fact that they've champions league players all over the team

'I saw them against Italy, they're nothing special'

...

'What, we lost?'

'fcuking O'Neill and Delaney'

blah blah blah

Thats just over the top hyperbole. If that comment is directed at me I havent claimed anything in regard Delaney, and I certainly never said we should definitely be beating Belgium.

I wont continue to repeat myself because I've voiced my thoughts over and over. But there is a big difference between expecting to beat Belgium, and being unhappy at time wasting ten minutes into a match playing horrific football, lieing down and dying in front of the tournament. Belgium are nothing special, they will be exposed again and will probably go home in the last 16. But thats not the point, the point is we are capable of much much better than this San Marino level stuff and mentality we are seeing.

I wont accept we arent better than the Belgium performance. I could put my heads in hands talking about grassroots football, schoolboy pitches and Athlone Town, those are all issues I have discussed and but secondary while we are in the tournament. We heard it all 4 years ago and nothing has been done.

If expecting better than the Belgium performance means I know nothing about football, then that is very sad to hear and I fear for the future of football in this country if that is acceptable and what is to come.

rgace

Green Fella wrote: »

Its been outlined earlier in this thread but really there is no excuse for the other night, time wasting 10 minutes into a game, players in panic mode if they have the ball, and instructed to pump everything up to a totally isolated man. The subs could be written on a beer mat before the match, so predictable.

Tactically clueless, a monkey in a suit would do a better job. We came to lie down and die, and we got what we deserved. Its sad to see expectations are so low, are players are limited but we are capable of alot better than the other night. Belgium will be exposed again very soon in this tournament.

They may be exposed by a team with a lot more quality than Ireland, how do you think they will fare against Sweden?

Green Fella

rgace wrote: »

They may be exposed by a team with a lot more quality than Ireland, how do you think they will fare against Sweden?

Sweden are an awful side, 0 shots on target so far in this tournament. So they will probably lose but I would doubt they will lose in the humiliating fashion we did.

Could they get a point or a win? I just cannot see it unless they make massive improvements. Belgium will probably stumble through the game winning by 1 goal. I wouldnt bet money on Belgium to do anything though, they are spineless side with a poor manager who will fold like a deck of cards if the going gets tough and they are put under pressure.