Newtownsandes Co op

liam7831

oji wrote: »

No liam sorry I'm a member with a few weeks

Ok no probs, lets move on.

How many suppliers, shareholders etc have ye? What do the Co-op do with the milk? What milk price are ye getting?
Dont know much about Newtownsandes co-op tbh

I see an earlier article here from 2014,

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/mystery-surrounds-role-dairy-board-kerry-contracts/

hp90

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Er, isn't that exactly what you want?

yea i guess but this is a small parish and there will be a lot of red faces some of those involved had no choice but to go with what they were told by management as they 'owed him one'

Avatar MIA

hp90 wrote: »

yea i guess but this is a small parish and there will be a lot of red faces some of those involved had no choice but to go with what they were told by management as they 'owed him one'

You need to decide which is more important. The delicacies of local niceties or actually getting what you think is right/fair done.

Feint heart never won... back the ownership of one's co-op.

cute geoge

What in the hell are all the staff in the office looking at computers all day long ,i would love to know.They are literally glued to them and dont look left or right ,they are directly at the back of pay desk for all to see

oji

Liam I posted this on another thread it's since removed I was told today moyvane have 66/67 suppliers 40 are bulk rest have road tanks there are 18 on the commitee some are up to 80 years old there are seats there handed down from father to son some seat are filled by the same man for over 40 years and by the same family for 40 years you must be chosen to get on its next to impossible to win an election as committee management and there older dry shareholder friends block vote I don't know where there milk is sold

hp90

liam7831 to add to oji response some of the milk goes in the road 5 miles to kerry and more of the milk goes 60 miles up the road to north cork as the 'retired' manager has a good relationship with them in north cork
price is usually the same as kerry

Avatar MIA

hp90 wrote: »

liam7831 to add to oji response some of the milk goes in the road 5 miles to kerry and more of the milk goes 60 miles up the road to north cork as the 'retired' manager has a good relationship with them in north cork
price is usually the same as kerry

Would the Kerry customer take all the milk?

Water John

Not my part of the world. But the buck stops here with the Directors.
It's not just a question of being liable if their is impropriety. The question of personal liability for a Director of a coop extends beyond that. Each Director must satisfy themselves as to the reasonableness of the positions and decisions taken by the coop.
Directors here, could find themselves personnaly liable if it is obviously not run in the best interests of the owners, namely all the shareholders.

I'm not a big fan of big business but some of these small coops that seem to be totally subservient to a larger one, I find hard to understand. Glanbia have a few. At least this one seems to have a choice of suppliers.
Would they not just amalgamate with North Cork if they supply them.
They may have an advantage of not being tied into a long term MSA.

Water John

Ignorance is not taken as an excuse for a Director of a coop.
It was more often accepted for a Director of a private/public company before, less now.

anotherservant

Water John wrote: »

Not my part of the world. But the buck stops here with the Directors.
It's not just a question of being liable if their is impropriety. The question of personal liability for a Director of a coop extends beyond that. Each Director must satisfy themselves as to the reasonableness of the positions and decisions taken by the coop.
Directors here, could find themselves personnaly liable if it is obviously not run in the best interests of the owners, namely all the shareholders.

I'm not a big fan of big business but some of these small coops that seem to be totally subservient to a larger one, I find hard to understand. Glanbia have a few. At least this one seems to have a choice of suppliers.
Would they not just amalgamate with North Cork if they supply them.
They may have an advantage of not being tied into a long term MSA.

Unfortunately to my knowledge no committee member has any corporate compliance training received. So they are unaware of any person liabilities. Committee also consists of many non milk suppliers in addition to those retired/no longer farmin!
The quoted agriland.ie article previously mentioned a meeting forced by a substantial part of the nts milk supply pool lead to an additional 1cent a litre being added to the north cork msa for those who signed up... not much thanks was received!

Water John

The legal onus is on the Directors. I presume these are whom you are calling the committee. They are a Board with very specific legal responsibiliites in law.

It is they who must clarify the suppliers/shareholders position. The Secretary of a company or coop has specific obligations as to the register of shareholders, holding of meetings, including AGM and minutes of same.

If necessary, an EGM is called. The shareholders request one from the Secretary. It has to be a specific motion and requested by normally 10% of the shareholders. Obviously its a local community issue too in this case and one would make every effort to not end up with a divided and bitter situation.
But if necessary, the motion may be a vote of no confidence in the Board and management.

oji

Can there be a resolution found what has happened in other coops can icos help resolve this or is it an in house problem

Water John

Yes ICOS in theory should be able to give advice. Remember they are mainly funded by the large milk processors. May be some form of mediation could help move things forward. That is if both sides wish to move on and avoid open conflict.
Centre for Cooperative Studies UCC, Prof Michael Ward might be worth contacting. See link.
https://www.ucc.ie/en/ccs/people/

This is not an in house problem and needs external professional help. Otherwise it will get messy.

oji

Define open conflict ?

Water John

Ah you know, bitter divisions in a rural community can last for generations.
I would try to avoid if possible. On the other hand, things must be right. Keep your points professional not personal despite what may be said is a clear help.

I don't believe in happy clappy rural community utopia either.

oji

I hope they can sort it out

olm12

Water John wrote: »

Not my part of the world. But the buck stops here with the Directors.
It's not just a question of being liable if their is impropriety. The question of personal liability for a Director of a coop extends beyond that. Each Director must satisfy themselves as to the reasonableness of the positions and decisions taken by the coop.
Directors here, could find themselves personnaly liable if it is obviously not run in the best interests of the owners, namely all the shareholders.

I'm not a big fan of big business but some of these small coops that seem to be totally subservient to a larger one, I find hard to understand. Glanbia have a few. At least this one seems to have a choice of suppliers.
Would they not just amalgamate with North Cork if they supply them.
They may have an advantage of not being tied into a long term MSA.

water john it was discovered at the last agm that newtownsandes co-op have given a 'roll over loan' of €500k to north cork to buy a share in a dryer. as per your post does this mean the directors would be personnally liable if north cork go bust or can't pay back this loan even the accountants were very vague went questioned about this loan. north cork need five years notice if newtown want to call it in. should the directors/committee members who signed the agreement for this be worried?

hp90

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Would the Kerry customer take all the milk?

im sure they would and it would make a lot more sense all round look what transport is costing sending four trucks up there every day and then having a long wait to be unloaded because that plant is not a modern plant like the kerry one.

Water John

Well, the auditor should be able/obliged to clarify this issue at an AGM.
Does the auditor have concerns about it? That should be the question.

What are the conditions attached to this?
What % of the capital cost for North Cork plant is this? 25%?
What is the priority of this versus bank loans that NC have?
Is there a legal agreement as opposed to a gentleman's agreement?
Are NC obliged to take some supply from Newtown?
Are Newtown part owners of the plant? I presume not and have no claim on the plant.
Sorry for the questions. But this aspect throws up these.

HP you seem to have a clear bias as to what should happen. If you favour Kerry, thats fine. The lorry issue doesn't stand really. Arrabawn lorries are collecting from West Cork to Youghal and taking it up to Nenagh. I suspect to their Liquid Milk plant in Galway in the winter.

olm12

Water John wrote: »

Well, the auditor should be able/obliged to clarify this issue at an AGM.
Does the auditor have concerns about it? That should be the question.

What are the conditions attached to this?
What % of the capital cost for North Cork plant is this? 25%?
What is the priority of this versus bank loans that NC have?
Is there a legal agreement as opposed to a gentleman's agreement?
Are NC obliged to take some supply from Newtown?
Are Newtown part owners of the plant? I presume not and have no claim on the plant.
Sorry for the questions. But this aspect throws up these.

HP you seem to have a clear bias as to what should happen. If you favour Kerry, thats fine. The lorry issue doesn't stand really. Arrabawn lorries are collecting from West Cork to Youghal and taking it up to Nenagh. I suspect to their Liquid Milk plant in Galway in the winter.

water john im afraid i can't answer your questions. at the agm when any supplier tried to ask questions they were constantly harrassed and talked down by board members. this line of questioning seem to really rattle some board members and as i said the accountants were very vague. suppliers and shareholders are kept in the dark about everything that goes on even a few of the board deny they knew anything about it
maybe someone else out there can come back with answers but this is what we are up against
'something is rotten is this state of denmark'

Water John

Fully au fait with such meetings.
Auditing accounts is different than being the accountant. If there is unquantified risk on the accounts, an auditor would be obliged to 'qualify' them.
Also a group of you write to the Board via the Company Secretary asking for clarity on certain issues. State if you wish that if the questions aren't replied to satisfactorily that you will seek an EGM.
Its their choice then, either move things to clarify or choose the other option.

I'd believe the Board would have to sanction such a loan to another coop.

Bar Pressure

liam7831 wrote: »

Its an interesting topic as Im from Kerry myself albeit not Moyvane. I wonder is it possible that all the below new users who are all coincidentally interested in this small Co-Op are the one person...
Oji
Olm12
Kerrybull
F15
Bar Pressure

Think so.... Your having a debate with yourself

Liam I had the misfortune of having to sit through the resent agm of the above mentioned small coop,listened to the former MD being called a bollocks and hearing that the retired chairman called another shareholder "a c**t" ,both comments are sad and unjustified. As you've probably learned that open debate is impossible down this neck of the woods,I posted my views,forgive me if it bores you.

olm12

no changes at the creamery today. guess we aren't getting through to them. there must be something very wrong that the board won't invite icos to help solve the issues.
what will it take for them to wake up and take control of the situation and not be controlled by one man

oji

I think our own Bono put it best when he said ''The worst disease in the world today is corruption and the cure is transparency ''

hp90

im glad to see the farmers journal running the story today and its online also

everything will come out in the open now. the mistake the chairman and the powers that be made was to ignore the farmers and their request to have a meeting with icos to resolve issues. why the board were so against icos getting involved would make you wonder what skeletons are buried under the floor boards.
there are 18 board members and the majority of them turned a blind eye to what was happening. im sure they had their reasons whether its financial or otherwise.

liam7831

How did they get wind of it ?

Water John

Liam, may be time to focus on sorting out the problem, not shooting the messenger. If it had no legs it would not get to the media.

hp90

well there was great advice handed out on boards.ie so just shows its a great place to get people talking.

you never know who is tuned in maybe journalists check it out too.

olm12

water john you seem to know what you are talking about and knowledgeable on co-op rules and regulations and thank you for all the advice you have given.
one other matter you might throw some light on is the matter of the 'trade debtors' figure.
we are talking big money here for a small co-op so should there be a break down of that given in the end of year balance sheet. this didn't just happen this year, it is ongoing every year.
someone said it might be the milk processors but that doesn't seem likely because at the end of the year there wouldn't be much milk produced and the two co-ops that our co-op are supplying are good to pay.
there would be a certain amount for feedstuff but that would only make up a small fraction of the debtors figure. are shareholders entitled to ask for a breakdown of the figure

Water John

They wouldn't be obliged to name debtors. I think they should split it into those due within 12 months and over 12 months. Same with creditors. I am not an accountant and some of them wouldn't know accounting rules specific to coops either.
That split might reveal whether its rollover credit to the same debtors. Olm PM sent.