Newtownsandes Co op

kingdomboyo

I'm very sorry to hear the issues being discussed. As a Moyvane man and supplier, I can understand the anger, milk price down to the floor, an unsure future and weather broken. But your facts are wrong, the letter was presented by the chairman to the committee, who wants to mediate. All suppliers who have an issue with the Creamary have to sign their names not just, K.Mc and D.Cla. The finances are fine, yes there was a loss, but also a drop in milk price last year and the less we get paid the less we spend.

North Cork pulled their 2nd contract deal because of the article on Agriland.ie. That will cost farmers now 10,000s, never mind what was put on Farmers journal will do. I ask for calm, no one wants us arguing and steps have being taken place before this explosion to hear what everyone has to say. You're getting BAD information and the board know who from, calm is needed and progress will happen now.

Water John

I have no angle or gripe on the issue. Lines of communication are important especially when there is questions being asked. There are both formal and informal channels.
Don't know any of the specifics but I would suggest some informal chats might be in order.

capall1

I'ld say a lot of damage is done by this online stuff and journal piece.
As a neutral, I find it hard to see it healed

Water John

What is being called a committee is I presume a Board. That is the legal entity.
I fully recognise its a rural local issue. But it seems some thing has simmered here for some time. Blaming the mainstream or social media is not unusual but misses the point. Despite what people may think, media in general don't chase stories.
You guys will have to solve this and solve it for yourselves. So make the phone calls and talk to those known to be reasonable on both sides.

UpTheBoro

I agree, the articles published on this matter and this public forum have not caused the issue. What they have done is merely expose the problem, transparency is never a bad thing. If things can stand up to scrutiny then there is nothing to worry about, but if a bit of scrutiny highlights problems then those should be accepted, addressed and corrected. Not dismissed and ignored.

One of the main root causes of all this agro is that good, honest and hard working farmers of the parish who's livelihood depends on the Co-op asked questions. Those questions were dismissed or not addressed to a satisfactory level. This was then allowed to continue for several years causing the issue to grow and fester. To add insult to injury when some younger fellas tried to put themselves forward for election in recent AGM's, they were prevented by gerrymandering votes. The former manager has acted like a political party whip, by whipping up votes for the past three years so that the status quo would be maintained and the election of board/committee members would remain and not be changed. It was then argued that everything was above board as everyone has been "democratically" elected.

Is one or two new voices in a group of 18 commitee/board members such a bad or scary thing? The right to express different views and debating key points/concerns are all very healthy things and should be encouraged not stifled.

Both sides have become so entrenched in their views and stance on things and of each other, that this cannot be resolved in-house. Allowing the existing board/committee and chairman to lead this process will not be credible irrespective of the outcome. An independent mediator be it ICOS or someother independent and trusted third party should be brought in to resolve these issues in a fair and transparent manner. Past grievances and ego's should be put aside for the greater good of the Co-op.

Reality Check NTS

Guys ye can tweet away until the cows come home, too cowardly to come out in the open but ye aint going anywhere. A few bitter thugs who can't take three defeats in a row. Why don't ye invite us to your own place and show us how well ye can run your own business.

moy11

For my part I will not take any further part in this thread, no matter what negative comment it might generate
I wish everyone linked to Newtownsandes Co-op well, and I hope it works well for the next 100 years.

Sincerly ..............................[/QUOTE]

capall1 wrote: »

I'ld say a lot of damage is done by this online stuff and journal piece.
As a neutral, I find it hard to see it healed

welcome back capall1! thought you were staying out of it although you certainly aren't neutral.
the damage was done long before now. ye are only trying to paint a better picture for yourselves but ye are fooling no one. it is ye who need the reality check but im afraid that will come too late to do any good. why are ye admitting now that changes are needed when we have been looking for changes for years. its only because its out in the public domain and ye are trying to save face. don't be wasting your time trying to defend the undefendable. ye should take water john's advice and start making those phone calls to try and sort things out.

oji

Im sorry to tell ye but this divorce is going to be a rough one

hp90

North Cork pulled their 2nd contract deal because of the article on Agriland.ie. That will cost farmers now 10,000s, never mind what was put on Farmers journal will do. I ask for calm, no one wants us arguing and steps have being taken place before this explosion to hear what everyone has to say. You're getting BAD information and the board know who from, calm is needed and progress will happen now.[/QUOTE]

the article in Agriland.ie was in May 2014 over 2 years ago. only 9 suppliers signed up to supply some of their milk to the north cork contract. don't know where you are getting a figure of 10,000s. and what steps were taken to let everyone 'have their say' as at the boards last meeting our request to have icos invited was tossed aside. please tell us what 'steps' you talking about as maybe we are doing you an injustice.

kingdomboyo

A 2nd contract from North Cork was to come out this year, unfortunately the board decided in Cork not to offer it to NTS. It was worth an extra few cents a litre. Though if things pick up in price we might not worry about it. That's been known for awhile.

Why is there such a lack of trust? Is it not better to at least try to keep a calm head and be open to talking with the board? The chairman has been contacted and has been advised (outside party) what to do, the two men who put there name down know this or will soon.

There is a procedure for this sort of thing, believe it or not we're all in the same boat, there should be no sides. There are hot heads on both sides of the fence which is no help, but also fellas who have a bit of since and it's them who should be brought together.

Everyone should have any worry's eased, but do be careful where you get your info from at home, It's very inaccurate and unfair.

Water John

As I said, communicate.

hp90

kingdomboyo wrote: »

A 2nd contract from North Cork was to come out this year, unfortunately the board decided in Cork not to offer it to NTS. It was worth an extra few cents a litre. Though if things pick up in price we might not worry about it. That's been known for awhile.

Why is there such a lack of trust? Is it not better to at least try to keep a calm head and be open to talking with the board? The chairman has been contacted and has been advised (outside party) what to do, the two men who put there name down know this or will soon.

There is a procedure for this sort of thing, believe it or not we're all in the same boat, there should be no sides. There are hot heads on both sides of the fence which is no help, but also fellas who have a bit of since and it's them who should be brought together.

Everyone should have any worry's eased, but do be careful where you get your info from at home, It's very inaccurate and unfair.

we were unaware of any 2nd contract ever being in the pipeline. can you blame us for the lack of trust. ye speak of being open to talking with the board. we are blue in the face from asking to meet and have the issues resolved. why wait til now. this should have been done long ago. we are glad to see that common sense is prevailing but lets see what ye are offering to do.

RabbleRouser2k

oji wrote: »

I was back in moyvane today I heard a rumour the gala shop is to close I hope that's not so it's very important to the village and the hinterland the hardware shop now is doing silage plastics has all water fittings piping fencing farm supplies it's a small area moyvane but per square km it must be as highly populated with dairy cows as any part of western Europe are there many young farmers there an old guy told me there could be upto 5000 cows in the catchment area that sound a lot that's a ready made business on that creamery s door step ? that's why you have these other companies thriving if they get a foot hold it will be hard to win back business

Sadly, would not surprise me. The original owners, have, sadly, passed away. Both way too soon, both from different forms of cancer. There is a new owner of the shop, but it's not been the same since the owners deaths.

If the shop closes down, I would not be surprised, saddened, but not surpised. But that will leave the village without a shop. The last shop in the village. There are many businesses leaving the place, Brosnan's Bar is another one that's closed down.

Water John

WTF is that nonsense about?

Ye have a problem. Reasonable people go and talk to each other. Ignore the wackos on both sides.

hp90

Rainday wrote: »

Is it true that Tom's cat hasn't come home yet,
I think it's really sad that she hasn't come home after 5 days............... she was a lovely cat and they were such great friends................ they went everywhere together.
She said she was only popping out for 5 minutes on saturday evening ............ but Tom hasn't seen her since
We believe she skipped her way past the church in a lively manner.............. through the woods, she then was spotted in Moyvane South, before finally making her way up the Glin Rd.
If anyone sees her please let Tom know.

She is a white cat with with black Polka-dots , quiet a rare specimen

And it would be a really good news story for Moyvane if she were found!!!!!!!!!!!!

afraid you lost me on this one

Reality Check NTS

I have heard in the pub that ye have refused to put your so called concerns on paper for consideration by the board/management. Have ye no biros or brains? I suspect the latter,all bull but no brains. Go back to what you are good at spreading slurry.

Water John

Reality, i think you only want to stir this. Pub talk never solved any thing but often caused a lot of trouble and usually incorrect.

hp90

Reality Check NTS wrote: »

Guys ye can tweet away until the cows come home, too cowardly to come out in the open but ye aint going anywhere. A few bitter thugs who can't take three defeats in a row. Why don't ye invite us to your own place and show us how well ye can run your own business.

Reality Check NTS wrote: »

I have heard in the pub that ye have refused to put your so called concerns on paper for consideration by the board/management. Have ye no biros or brains? I suspect the latter,all bull but no brains. Go back to what you are good at spreading slurry.

the real reality of this is that you only woke up yesterday and neither of the two comments you have contributed to this discussion have served any purpose. why don't you leave this to those in the know and tune in again in a few days to get an update.

soccer20

are ye trying to disgrace us altogether. again in the farmers journal today. didn't the board say that they were taking steps to sort things out and would be in touch with suppliers soon. ye have everyone upset. poor M.L is so upset over the whole affair. after all his years of dedicated service ye do this. to cut a long story short we are all very upset by this and basically all feel like quitting.

cbb2

Water John wrote: »

Reality, i think you only want to stir this. Pub talk never solved any thing but often caused a lot of trouble and usually incorrect.

Water John i understand what you mean about pub talk but you can also get a lot of incorrect information from anonymous people online and this can also cause trouble

kingdomboyo

What's it say in the paper, didn't get this weeks issue yet?

cbb2

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Sadly, would not surprise me. The original owners, have, sadly, passed away. Both way too soon, both from different forms of cancer. There is a new owner of the shop, but it's not been the same since the owners deaths.

If the shop closes down, I would not be surprised, saddened, but not surpised. But that will leave the village without a shop. The last shop in the village. There are many businesses leaving the place, Brosnan's Bar is another one that's closed down.

Its a great shame alright to see all these businesses closing Nolans( macs)shop closed just over 12months ago a shop that served the community for over a 100 years i suppose thats what happens when you stop supporting your own

moy11

kingdomboyo wrote: »

I'm very sorry to hear the issues being discussed. As a Moyvane man and supplier, I can understand the anger, milk price down to the floor, an unsure future and weather broken. But your facts are wrong, the letter was presented by the chairman to the committee, who wants to mediate. All suppliers who have an issue with the Creamary have to sign their names not just, K.Mc and D.Cla. The finances are fine, yes there was a loss, but also a drop in milk price last year and the less we get paid the less we spend.

North Cork pulled their 2nd contract deal because of the article on Agriland.ie. That will cost farmers now 10,000s, never mind what was put on Farmers journal will do. I ask for calm, no one wants us arguing and steps have being taken place before this explosion to hear what everyone has to say. You're getting BAD information and the board know who from, calm is needed and progress will happen now.

kingdomboyo wrote: »

What's it say in the paper, didn't get this weeks issue yet?

for someone that seems to be quite involved in the running of the creamery im very surprised that you haven't got your copy of the farmers journal and read page 10 at least 20 times to make sure they got their facts right. it looks like they did a lot of research on how other co-ops are run compared to ours. our rules are so out dated compared to these other co-ops and we are way behind in the way of modernisation. it highlights once again the urgent need for change in our co-op.

kingdomboyo

moy11 wrote: »

for someone that seems to be quite involved in the running of the creamery im very surprised that you haven't got your copy of the farmers journal and read page 10 at least 20 times to make sure they got their facts right. it looks like they did a lot of research on how other co-ops are run compared to ours. our rules are so out dated compared to these other co-ops and we are way behind in the way of modernisation. it highlights once again the urgent need for change in our co-op.

Welcome back, what ever about the Creamary,my own business comes first and I have to look after my own job first, can't always keep going to the shop every day.

Icos and PWC explained at the AGM (were you there?), the co-op rule book was following the same system as other co-ops, not all but many.

Look I don't care what's said or not said. But to be honest when the board is getting a blasting, there will be resentment towards those with any problems who want to talk. The few are doing for the many. I don't know if there is reluctance to put your names down to back your complaints, but Yee should, it would be the first step in helping things to go forward.

Outsidehelp

As an outside customer of newtownsandes coop and a former kerry supplier ,its very sad to see the village and community we have admired from afar fall into this state. There seems to be fault at both sides of this debate and ignoring the concerns of the younger members was always going to backfire. I feel many of the issues have now snowballed ,but could have been put to bed long ago as most of the injustices were not real in the first place.
As the surrounding villages have declined for the last 20 years on the back of creamery and store closures ,i had hoped moyvane could show that it doesn't have to be this way. but if support for local business and the creamery dies, there isn't much left.
Could someone like SW who has solved many issues as county board chairman act as a middle man,or maybe someone from outside the village.
Many of the younger farmers think that they would be better off with kerry coop ,but back through the years moyvane had the interest of their suppliers far higher as a priority than my paymasters had. Young men high on the teagasc driven drive to expand had better remember that in my time milking cows there have been more bad years than good, and there are many high flyers in the circus but when the crowds don't show its always the clowns wages that are cut.

UpTheBoro

Thanks OutsideHelp,

Its good hear a different perspective.

I think the average NTS Co-op farmer down through the years would have felt better off relative to their peers in other co-op's. NTS Co-op would have looked after their farmers better and the price of milk NTS paid would have been better than the Kerry equivalent. As a result there was a lot of pride in our Co-op, its management and board.

But the hands of time don't stay still and each business must continue to change and grow to avoid stagnation and decline. In recent times the value of the Co-op has stagnated and over the course of time its value has dwindled just by standing still.

As per the 2015 accounts, the balance sheet value of the Co-op was just over 5 million euro. To the man on the street 5million is a lot of money but in today's business terms its not a whole lot. What was the value of the Co-op thirty years ago? If you compare the value of the Co-op in the 80's to the price of an acre of land at that time I'd say the Co-op could have bought the parish and more with it! If you do the same comparison with today's value, I'd say it would just about be able to buy one or two decent sized farms. Using this as a simple yardstick the relative value of the Co-op has dwindled and dwindled significantly. This loss in value effects every member.

On top of this, with the current milk price at rock bottom, the recent abolition of quota's and the expansion of herds and overheads there is a lot of uncertainty. Our members are now less well off relative to their peers. And if we look over the ditch at their Kerry Co-op equivalent they appear to have grown very very wealthy with due to the success of their Co-op and Kerry group. And we are left wondering 'if only ...'

The Co-op needs to get back to basics. It needs to re-shape its business model, get the store sorted out and stocked. Out bid other competitors in the region and grow its business and profit. If it can do this over a number of years and get the foundations right, who know where things could go.

p.s. I think your point on SW is quite a good one. His experience in handling the Kerry manager sitution when transitioning Paidi is somewhat similiar albeit in a much smaller scale. The situation had its own challenges, Paidi didn't go quitely and it made the national news!

olm12

i agree wholeheartedly with everything you have said in that piece UptheBoro.

there were good years but we can't live off memories. these good years are well gone and we have to move forward and adapt our situation to the suit the present climate. farms are getting bigger and cow numbers are multiplying. dairying in general has entered such a new phase and we need new blood on the board and someone with a vision to lead it.

i think its a great idea to bring S.W in as mediator. my grandfather always praised his late father Jack when he was chairman. He kept great control over the gm and took his position as chairman seriously not like m.j.k and r.n. and this is why we are where we are today.

Outsidehelp

Points well made up the boro. Surely this type of reasoned discussion has a place at the boardroom table, questions asked,answers given and a few pints down the village after. Maybe this forum discussion will do some good.
As someone who has seen both sides,as milk suppliers we are inclined to over estimate our importance ,working hard 7 days a week we tend not to get off the treadmill, to look around us. I'm sure the creamery profits were banked when farming was good in the late 70 s and 80 s ,farmers had money in their pockets and if the creamery had a tidy margin it was still their money owned by the farmers as a group.
But how could the profits be maintained in the last number of years ,the milk price was subsidised to keep farmers afloat,and costs are gone crazy for us all, and now they have the extra costs of bulk collection.
sometimes we should be careful what we wish for.......if a hard nosed manager is put in place there will be a big charge for collection ,the supplier bringing his milk shouldn't be subsidising the others. The cost of all imputs might increase too.
If the priority is the money in the bank ,that can be fixed ,but now it will belong to a co op where non suppliers will outnumber suppliers .
I fear for the future of the dairy farmer if the new zealand model is the ideal. The 50 cow man was swallowed up and now the 800 cow man is bankrupt. The rural towns and villages have been abandoned and the suicide rate and divorce rates are the only figures rising.

Bar Pressure

kingdomboyo wrote: »

Welcome back, what ever about the Creamary,my own business comes first and I have to look after my own job first, can't always keep going to the shop every day.

Icos and PWC explained at the AGM (were you there?), the co-op rule book was following the same system as other co-ops, not all but many.

Look I don't care what's said or not said. But to be honest when the board is getting a blasting, there will be resentment towards those with any problems who want to talk. The few are doing for the many. I don't know if there is reluctance to put your names down to back your complaints, but Yee should, it would be the first step in helping things to go forward.

Everyone is anxious to help things forward,kingdomboyo you appear to have the ear of the board so you can clear up the rumour circulating, that anyone putting their name to the ICOS mediation letter will be subject to sanction under the rules in section 4,"Suspension of membership". As you said yourself "there will be resentment"?

soccer

i am retired from farming for a number of years now but like to keep an interested eye on what is happening with the agri sector.
someone else can research this but i thought it was of interest and it is not fictitious.
in the newtownsandes co-op balance sheet for the year end 31st December 1992 the following are listed
Value of Shares in North Kerry Co-Operative Creameries Ltd IR£123,041
Golden Vale Plc IR£17650
as you can see we are talking in punts here. nts had a lot of shares back then and if these were the old kerry shares someone said they could be worth 50million or more at todays price. aren't these shares better than any money in the bank. are they still there?