Newtownsandes Co op

oji

There were many stories in circulation at the mart in Listowel yesterday concerning this topic some entertainment some far fetched some rather sinister there was one about a supplier who spoke up at the agm and found himself paying a fine of upto 5000 from his last cheque could this be possible ?

kingdomboyo

Bar Pressure wrote: »

Everyone is anxious to help things forward,kingdomboyo you appear to have the ear of the board so you can clear up the rumour circulating, that anyone putting their name to the ICOS mediation letter will be subject to sanction under the rules in section 4,"Suspension of membership". As you said yourself "there will be resentment"?

That's the problem with the whole thing,RUMOURS. This is not a letter by ICOS, ICOS won't come in unless everything has been tried. It's the chairman and board and Management who want to find out what the problems are and have it signed by those backing it.

The chairman want all suppliers to have a say and discuss it. Most of the farmers who are reasonable want this on all sides, but unfortunately there are a small few who back the fight and not the cause.

oji

I was told yesterday farmers are afraid to sign these letters for fear of retribution, being singled out, being bullied some feel they can't even go for a pint in the village, and monies being called in

kingdomboyo

oji wrote: »

There were many stories in circulation at the mart in Listowel yesterday concerning this topic some entertainment some far fetched some rather sinister there was one about a supplier who spoke up at the agm and found himself paying a fine of upto 5000 from his last cheque could this be possible ?

No, it's against the law. Like I said stories and rumours are going wild.

oji

Is there any truth to the story that a deligation from these suppliers met with members from the board last year and the chairman deemed their grievances not worthy enough to discuss at board meetings? From mart yesterday

moy11

soccer wrote: »

i am retired from farming for a number of years now but like to keep an interested eye on what is happening with the agri sector.
someone else can research this but i thought it was of interest and it is not fictitious.
in the newtownsandes co-op balance sheet for the year end 31st December 1992 the following are listed
Value of Shares in North Kerry Co-Operative Creameries Ltd IR£123,041
Golden Vale Plc IR£17650
as you can see we are talking in punts here. nts had a lot of shares back then and if these were the old kerry shares someone said they could be worth 50million or more at todays price. aren't these shares better than any money in the bank. are they still there?

lads don't ignore this man. does anyone know anything about these shares and when they were sold and for how much and who bought them.
i spoke to an accountant after seeing this and he confirmed that they would indeed be worth in the region of €57/58 MILLION EURO if they were the old shares. if they were the plc shares they would be worth somewhere in the region of €6million.
i then rang a farmer in Lee Strand and he said lee strand gave a loan as well as nts and fealebridge when kerry was being set up and these shares had nothing to do with that. it was a loan nts gave them and it was repaid.
look also at the golden vales shares. these were converted to kerry plc shares and it looks like this is what they have now.
this issue is a big one and should be investigated. who signed off on the sale of those kerry shares.
in my mind it looks like these were the old shares.

oji

kingdomboyo wrote:

No, it's against the law. Like I said stories and rumours are going wild.

Just spoke to the man that told me of that substantial fine he's after phoning the supplier and he confirmed he paid a fine of 4k

kingdomboyo

oji wrote: »

Just spoke to the man that told me of that substantial fine he's after phoning the supplier and he confirmed he paid a fine of 4k

Well I never heard of being fined for opening your mouth. We'd all be broke if that was the case.

oji

I can only say what I was told a supplier who spoke out at this year's agm was fined 4k from his last cheque by the creamery was it for water r what I do not know but this fine sounds excessive he just said it was a wrap on the knuckles to keep him in line

cbb2

olm12 wrote: »

i agree wholeheartedly with everything you have said in that piece UptheBoro.

there were good years but we can't live off memories. these good years are well gone and we have to move forward and adapt our situation to the suit the present climate. farms are getting bigger and cow numbers are multiplying. dairying in general has entered such a new phase and we need new blood on the board and someone with a vision to lead it.

i think its a great idea to bring S.W in as mediator. my grandfather always praised his late father Jack when he was chairman. He kept great control over the gm and took his position as chairman seriously not like m.j.k and r.n. and this is why we are where we are today.

I think you may find your facts are a little bit wrong as the late Jack Walsh was never chairman

cbb2

oji wrote: »

Just spoke to the man that told me of that substantial fine he's after phoning the supplier and he confirmed he paid a fine of 4k

Just wondering did the supplier confirm he paid a fine for opening his mouth at the agm or did he just confirm he paid a fine?

oji

oji wrote:

I can only say what I was told a supplier who spoke out at this year's agm was fined 4k from his last cheque by the creamery was it for water r what I do not know but this fine sounds excessive he just said it was a wrap on the knuckles to keep him in line

Water content,temperature,quality,thermodurics I don't know just fined

cbb2

oji wrote: »

Water content,temperature,quality,thermodurics I don't know just fined

So after insinuating that it was for speaking out at the agm you say now that you dont know what he was fined for. Could be any one of the items mentioned above. You see where rumours, insinuations and idle gosdip can lead to.

cbb2

cbb2 wrote: »

So after insinuating that it was for speaking out at the agm you say now that you dont know what he was fined for. Could be any one of the items mentioned above. You see where rumours, insinuations and idle gosdip can lead to.

Just after talking to a friend of mine who is a supplier to newtownsandes, he told they dont fine for water or temperature. For someone who has a lot to say about the issues seems to me you are listening to too many rumours and dont really know what your talking about

oji

But he was fined and has anyone ever been fined that much before ? And for what

cbb2

oji wrote: »

But he was fined and has anyone ever been fined that much before ? And for what

Maybe you should ring your friend and get him to ring the supplier and ask him had he bad test results.

UpTheBoro

The supplier in question was indeed fined over 4 thousand euro for failing a milk test. And if the story ended there, then it wouldn't have become the talking point that it has.

It is widely accepted that this was a harsh penalty. There is a precedence going back many years that if you fail a milk test, you get notified and if you fail the next test then you are penalised by way of a fine. But this decision is at the discretion of the manager. In this case, no notification was given and the supplier was issued with a 4 thousand euro fine after one failed test.

4 thousand euro is alot of money in good times, let alone in a fallow period. It was unnecessary, it won't help matters at all and only widens the distrust and bitterness between both sides.

All this agro is tough for the manager and chairman too, seeing their names being mentioned weekly in the journal. The chairman gets nothing for his efforts, there is no pension for him when this all blows over! Its a voluntary position with a lot of responsibility and very little thanks. He's a decent man, one of our own and doesn't deserves this treatment.

Play the ball not the man! And that goes for all sides.

cbb2

UpTheBoro wrote: »

The supplier in question was indeed fined over 4 thousand euro for failing a milk test. And if the story ended there, then it wouldn't have become the talking point that it has.

It is widely accepted that this was a harsh penalty. There is a precedence going back many years that if you fail a milk test, you get notified and if you fail the next test then you are penalised by way of a fine. But this decision is at the discretion of the manager. In this case, no notification was given and the supplier was issued with a 4 thousand euro fine after one failed test.

4 thousand euro is alot of money in good times, let alone in a fallow period. It was unnecessary, it won't help matters at all and only widens the distrust and bitterness between both sides.


All this agro is tough for the manager and chairman too, seeing their names being mentioned weekly in the journal. The chairman gets nothing for his efforts, there is no pension for him when this all blows over! Its a voluntary position with a lot of responsibility and very little thanks. He's a decent man, one of our own and doesn't deserves this treatment.

Play the ball not the man! And that goes for all sides.

My main reason for taking up on this was that it was put up as a rumour and there have bern a lot of rumours and insinuations on this thread and as i said earlier rumours and insinuations are harmful and devisive, most of these insinuations were directed at the former gm, present manager and board and were extremely unpleasent and hurtful. I for one was trying to play the ball and think its time for this to be put to bed and let both sides work through the proper channels and not through online threads and papers. There has always been a good community spirit in moyvane and its time to let this spirit show again.

capall1

No matter what co-op we supply , penalties are in place for out of spec milk.
NTS is no different.
I wouldn't't wish penalties on anyone, that's more to do with market demands than personalities.
And markets are getting more demanding, not more lenient

Bar Pressure

Was the supplier who received the fine involved in trying to get icos down to help sort out the disagreement? If there's any connection between the 2 it wouldn't say much for the coops internal resolution process.

oji

They'd surely be more diplomatic than that ?

cbb2

Bar Pressure wrote: »

Was the supplier who received the fine involved in trying to get icos down to help sort out the disagreement? If there's any connection between the 2 it wouldn't say much for the coops internal resolution process.

MORE Insinuations cant we notbe like up the boro and myself said last night to move away from insinuations and try to resolve this problem throigh the proper channels. According to the fj on thursday the suppliers were asked to outline their issues, it seems that they have failed to do this and would prefer to wash their dirty laundry inpublic. Lets bring back a bit of trust and respect to this situation.

upkerry

Just a reminder of what was printed in the Farmers Journal. the article states that the farmers want ICOS to be invited to lead talks on modernising the co-op. As talks can't go ahead until ICOS are brought in to mediate how can the linen be washed anywhere only in public as the farmers have no other means of talking to the management and board only here online where everyone can read it. The board of newtownsandes co-op have stated it is not an ICOS problem and are refusing to get them involved but ICOS have been contacted by some farmers and they are ready and willing to come and help.


Suppliers looking for modernisation and new blood at the small Kerry Co-op are meeting resistence from the top.
The manager/secretary of Newtownsandes has replied to milk suppliers rejecting their request that ICOS be invited to lead talks on modernising the co-op. Dominick O’Connell wrote that running of the co-op was not a matter for ICOS. He asked the suppliers to outline the issues which they feel should be considered by the committee and co-op management. The letter has been distributed to other suppliers.

The concerned suppliers are now considering if they can call an extraordinary general meeting to change the rules. Any proposal to change the rules would require the approval of two-thirds of suppliers.

On most matters, dry shareholders have the same vote in Newtownsandes as milk suppliers. But, crucially, voting on any proposal to change rules is confined to active milk suppliers.

Milk suppliers in Newtownsandes are in the unusual position that they do not have a milk supply agreement or contract.

There had been concern in recent years that the co-op was slow to move to modern and independent milk testing.

Suppliers also fret about its financial performance. Turnover is around €12m. The co-op was loss-making in 2015 and ’14, being about €120,000 in the red both years.

The co-op has about €2m in the bank – down from €3m through the noughties. The co-op accounts show significant shareholding in FBD and Kerry Group.

Co-ops such as Dairygold, Glanbia and Tipperary operate an age limit for committee members. Others such as the West Cork co-ops set a maximum on the number of years that a farmer can sit on the board. It’s eight years at Drinagh, 12 at Barryroe, 10 at Bandon and nine and Lisavaird. Newtownsandes has neither such rule and some members of the committee are aged over 80 years.

In most co-ops, if a seat becomes vacant, it’s not filled until the next AGM or – in big co-ops – there is an election in the relevant electoral area to fill it. In Newtownsandes, the committee has in the past co-opted a new member when one of their colleagues stepped down.

olm12

boards.ie is active now for two weeks with over 10000 views. not the ideal but it did let people see what is going on. why should the farmers put up with it in silence any longer. there has been a call for reform for a number of years now as this discussion has highlighted time and time again. our counterparts in belgium took to the streets spraying buildings with milk in protest. all we are doing is trying to arrange meetings and do it the peaceful way.

both articles in the Farmers Journal were well written and truthful. they wouldn't be published otherwise as they have to be careful for fear of litigation. they highlighted the fact that newtownsandes co-op has been losing money and they also highlighted the differences between our co-op rules and the rules of other more successful co-ops. they mentioned the concern farmers have about the way the milk is tested. the creamery is testing the butter fat content themselves and in a very outdated manner. we need to bring the creamery uptodate
or just close up and let kerry take over.

cbb2

olm12 wrote: »

boards.ie is active now for two weeks with over 10000 views. not the ideal but it did let people see what is going on. why should the farmers put up with it in silence any longer. there has been a call for reform for a number of years now as this discussion has highlighted time and time again. our counterparts in belgium took to the streets spraying buildings with milk in protest. all we are doing is trying to arrange meetings and do it the peaceful way.

both articles in the Farmers Journal were well written and truthful. they wouldn't be published otherwise as they have to be careful for fear of litigation. they highlighted the fact that newtownsandes co-op has been losing money and they also highlighted the differences between our co-op rules and the rules of other more successful co-ops. they mentioned the concern farmers have about the way the milk is tested. the creamery is testing the butter fat content themselves and in a very outdated manner. we need to bring the creamery uptodate
or just close up and let kerry take over.

Just wondering about something you say that newtownsandes test the butter fat content themselves, do other coop's test the butter fat content themselves . Also you say close up and let kerry take over, im sure ye could leave and go to kerry so why not go if ye not happy

upkerry

Mounting discontent spilled over at the meeting in Moyvane, Co Kerry.
There were fireworks at the annual general meeting of Newtownsandes Co-op in Moyvane, Co Kerry, earlier this month. They continued after the meeting with some shouting and name-calling taking place on the street outside.

The co-op is one of the smallest in the country with some 70 milk suppliers and 250 shareholders. Some smaller suppliers deliver their milk themselves into the co-op, pulling milk tanks with jeeps or tractors. Bigger suppliers have their milk collected by Newtownsandes’ trucks for carting off to North Cork Co-op and to Kerry Creameries for processing.

Dissatisfaction has grown among some suppliers over how the co-op is run. Under the co-op rule book, committee members finishing a term can stand again without interruption. There is no age limit. Some committee members are approaching 80 years of age. The committee can co-opt on new members. Dry shareholders have the same vote as active suppliers on most co-op matters. All of this has militated against new blood at the top of the co-op.

A number of suppliers recently suggested to chair Martin J Kinneally and management that ICOS be invited in for talks on revising the rules. So far, this has not happened.

The suppliers claim retired general manager Michael Liston retains strong influence. After stepping down three years ago, he served as assistant secretary – retaining his old manager’s office. He was succeeded by Dominick O’Connell, who had been the co-op’s assistant manager, and who continues to sit at his old desk. At the AGM, one supplier asked Dominick O’Connell why he wasn’t using the manager’s office and O’Connell replied that he liked sitting where he was.

At the AGM, most suppliers learned for the first time that Newtownsandes gave a €500,000 five-year rollover loan to North Cork Co-op three years ago to help the latter buy a new milk drier. It will be at least five years before the loan is repaid, the meeting heard.

Reality Check NTS

Lads, Lads, have ye stopped entertaining us. Has Knockanure's Boris Johnson taken you to the top of the mountain only to come back down again or have the sharp winds of disgust from the local community confined you to the dustbins of history.

Time for a good meal boys, forget red herrings try humble pie. Don't let Boris eat too much, there could be an explosion of filth and folly.

olm12

all i can say is we will see who is laughing when this is over. you ridicule Boris Johnson and even though he is a very eccentric character he did help win the Leave vote. Its funny alright its him you picked as i guess we are also campaigning for nts board members to LEAVE.

oji

Knockanure both mane and poor a church without a steeple bitches and hoors looking out of half doors critising decent prople. ... r they still at it !!!!!

troubledwaters

cbb2 wrote: »

Just wondering about something you say that newtownsandes test the butter fat content themselves, do other coop's test the butter fat content themselves . Also you say close up and let kerry take over, im sure ye could leave and go to kerry so why not go if ye not happy

cbb2 im afraid you won't have to worry about getting suppliers to leave because at this rate kerry group will own it. they will be buying it from the receiver or the bank if it keeps losing money like it said it the papers.