League of Ireland in Europe 2016

Paz-CCFC

joeysoap wrote: »

Agree with those figures.Last time it appeared as €2.4m for participation , now showing €2.6m.

Prize money was increased during the qualification stages. Cork City got an extra €15k per round than we were supposed to. UEFA published articles in the last few days explaining how it's allocated for the Champions League and Europa League. Dundalk got €320k for playing in the second round. They won the third round, so they didn't get anything for that (only eliminated sides pick up that prize money). They got €3M for losing the playoff and then the €2.6M base free for the EL group stages. So, just under €6M in all, plus the market share (I have no idea what this would be for an LoI side). Then there's other fringe benefits (sponsorship, gates, merchandise), but of course many extra costs (travel, stadium hire, player bonuses).

Anybody else think this is mad money? €110,000 for winning the league, and €10,000 more than that for a draw.

Hopefully we will get a decent Oriel out of this.

Yes. Relative to the league, Cork City's Euro prize money is massive. Dundalk's is astronomical. I fully believe that Dundalk have enough to dominate the league. But I also think if we have a few years of the same few teams getting into Europe and getting a few runs going, it'll create another gap between those sides and the rest. Same top 4 in 2014 and 2015. Looks like this year it'll be the same, except Derry taking Pats' place. There's still the Cup, which, if a team outside the top 4 wins it, 4th doesn't get Europe and a smaller team gets a big boost in UEFA prize money. It doesn't happen often though (one in the last six years) and by the next time it happens, you might have a fairly entrenched top 4, with maybe having a bit of a merry go round between one or two clubs going in and out of Euro places. One year of qualification just mightn't be enough to break into it.

Without an increase in league prize money, this won't do much for the competitiveness of the league.

NIMAN

topmanamillion wrote: »

But LOI clubs are no where near "yearly European group stage qualification". That would require full time football and sizeable budgets.
The fact is European games are cup games and even big budgets are no guarantee of progression.
Next year, all of our sides could be put after one tie.

In 2011, Shamrock qualified for the group stages, the first time a LOI club had done it, 5 years later Dundalk have qualified for the same stage. I see nothing to indicate that time line of qualification will increase.
Only today, UEFA have made it potentially more difficult for leagues like the LOI to put clubs in either group stage.

I think it's baby steps for LOI clubs. If Dundalk build a 4/5000 seater and in 5 years time need to expand then that would be brilliant. Clubs have to balance ambition with realisim.

This is the big thing, UEFA will continue to pander to the big clubs and the big leagues, the ones that bring them the TV revenue.

Do you genuinely think they want the likes of LoI clubs in the Group Stages of the CL? Not a chance.

red sean

Problem is that not only do UEFA not give a sh1t about small clubs the FAI don't either.
Maybe if they adopted the Iceland method things might slowly improve.
Good article here:
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/national-league/fai-might-learn-from-iceland-s-generosity-to-domestic-game-1.2769626

pablomakaveli

red sean wrote: »

Problem is that not only do UEFA not give a sh1t about small clubs the FAI don't either.
Maybe if they adopted the Iceland method things might slowly improve.
Good article here:
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/national-league/fai-might-learn-from-iceland-s-generosity-to-domestic-game-1.2769626

Thing with that is unlike the FAI, the Iceland FA actually wants to improve football in Iceland. They helped get a load of coaches their coaching qualifications as well. Icelands run in the Euros was a culmination of their FA having a plan and being willing to spend money on it.

joeysoap

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

Prize money was increased during the qualification stages. Cork City got an extra €15k per round than we were supposed to. UEFA published articles in the last few days explaining how it's allocated for the Champions League and Europa League. Dundalk got €320k for playing in the second round.

Thanks Paz-CCFC, I think that if you qualify for the 2nd QR (all LOI Champions currently do)in the champions league you pick up the first round prizemoney as well €220,000, but this might be disregarded for the €3m elimination money. I could be wrong but I get the impression that one replaces the other.( maybe not it does say you only get the €420.000 3rd money if you are eliminated.

You make a very strong point about the 4/5 clubs at the top and how hard it is to break into that group. This has happened in Belarus with Bate winning a number of leagues in a row, and even Iceland where Hafnarfjordur have won 7/8 of the leagues since 2004 or thereabouts.

Convoy report says the LOI is one of the most competitive in Europe based on the diversity of winners in the past 10 years or so (Shels, Bohs, Pats, Rovers, Drogs, Sligo, Cork City and Dundalk). You have to back to 1996 to find a winner outside this group -Derry and 1982 to the next winner - Athlone.

The big danger is owners willing to gamble the club and all that it stands for the small chance to make real money.

Alfa Quadrifoglio

Zenit issued this tweet after hearing they had drawn Dundalk in the Europa League and then quickly withdrew it

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/zenit-st-petersburg-hastily-delete-leprechaun-tweet-drawing-dundalk-europa-league/92940

Darkglasses

It's pretty funny in fairness

dan1895

Darkglasses wrote: »

It's pretty funny in fairness

To be sure to be sure

NIMAN

Lucky us Irish aren't easily offended.

Paz-CCFC

joeysoap wrote: »

Thanks Paz-CCFC, I think that if you qualify for the 2nd QR (all LOI Champions currently do)in the champions league you pick up the first round prizemoney as well €220,000, but this might be disregarded for the €3m elimination money. I could be wrong but I get the impression that one replaces the other.( maybe not it does say you only get the €420.000 3rd money if you are eliminated.

No, you only get prize money for the rounds that you played in. You don't pick up the money for rounds that you get a bye for. Last year, both Crusaders and Dundalk got knocked out in the second round. But Crusaders got an extra €200k, because they started in the first.

The big danger is owners willing to gamble the club and all that it stands for the small chance to make real money.

Yes, that's the problem. Some are saying that Dundalk have set the new standard for the rest of the league to aspire to. That's all well and good, but if they attempt to reach that by spending beyond their means to get to the holy grail of UEFA prize money, that's just repeating the old LoI trick of risking everything to chase the dream.


Also, another thing on the prize money and the rest of the league. It's been argued by some on here, myself included, that a portion of prize money earned by the four clubs in Europe should be shared with the clubs that didn't make it. Others have made the point that that's not fair, the Euro clubs made that money themselves, so it should be all theirs to keep. But that's not strictly true. The success of Cork City and Dundalk in particular has caused absolute havoc to the fixture list. Matches were postponed to give these sides a better chance of progression, which are certainly a big help. This has caused other clubs to lose out on what would normally be big gates on a Friday/Saturday night, as well as having potentially long trips sandwiched in between two other league games. Given that they've made these concession to their detriment and for the benefit of the clubs in Europe, it's only fair that some of the prize money is shared around.

joeysoap

According to this you get €550,00 for the 2nd qualifying round. If you got €200k you would be better off in the Europa league.

Your points re the other clubs facilitating CC and Dundalk are well made. CC and Dundalk are probably facing a tax bill, could they offset this by giving a % of their winnings to the LOI for distribution to the 8 non qualifying clubs?

http://www.the42.ie/dundalk-receive-550000-loi-clubs-uefa-cash-boost-2022866-Mar2015/

topmanamillion

joeysoap wrote: »

According to this you get €550,00 for the 2nd qualifying round. If you got €200k you would be better off in the Europa league.

Your points re the other clubs facilitating CC and Dundalk are well made. CC and Dundalk are probably facing a tax bill, could they offset this by giving a % of their winnings to the LOI for distribution to the 8 non qualifying clubs?

http://www.the42.ie/dundalk-receive-550000-loi-clubs-uefa-cash-boost-2022866-Mar2015/

Tax bills can be offset by investing in infrastructure. I suspect this would be preferable for both clubs.
There's also certain tax breaks for sporting organisations.

Paz-CCFC

joeysoap wrote: »

According to this you get €550,00 for the 2nd qualifying round. If you got €200k you would be better off in the Europa league.

Your points re the other clubs facilitating CC and Dundalk are well made. CC and Dundalk are probably facing a tax bill, could they offset this by giving a % of their winnings to the LOI for distribution to the 8 non qualifying clubs?

http://www.the42.ie/dundalk-receive-550000-loi-clubs-uefa-cash-boost-2022866-Mar2015/

€300k (gone up by €20k this year) for playing in the second round. €250k solidarity payment, which you get if you fail to get to the group stages. Not sure if that's included in the €3M playoff elimination fee. If not, then Dundalk's prize money is up to €6.17M.

Last year Dundalk got €550k. Crusaders got €750k (€200k + €300K + €250k).

Not sure about the tax bill, to be honest. I'd be thinking that prize money might be exempt from tax, the same as prizes from the likes of the lottery.

Amirani

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

Not sure about the tax bill, to be honest. I'd be thinking that prize money might be exempt from tax, the same as prizes from the likes of the lottery.

Nah, lottery is a special case in that regard.

Paz-CCFC

The UEFA Youth League draw was made this afternoon. First time an Irish club is competing in it.

Cork City drew Helsinki in the first round. Away the 27th/28th of September, home the 18th/19th of October. The winners play the winners of APOEL v Roma. We'd be away on the 1st/2nd of November and home the 22nd/23rd if we make it through.

Would be some tie to host Roma in Cork. Would imagine the Cross will be used, unless we have a postponed senior match that midweek. Obviously would only affect the first round, as the second round, if we make it, will be after the senior season ends. Not sure if Bishopstown is up to standard (needs to be a Category 1 stadium).

A_Sober_Paddy

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

The UEFA Youth League draw was made this afternoon. First time an Irish club is competing in it.

Cork City drew Helsinki in the first round. Away the 27th/28th of September, home the 18th/19th of October. The winners play the winners of APOEL v Roma. We'd be away on the 1st/2nd of November and home the 22nd/23rd if we make it through.

Would be some tie to host Roma in Cork. Would imagine the Cross will be used, unless we have a postponed senior match that midweek. Obviously would only affect the first round, as the second round, if we make it, will be after the senior season ends. Not sure if Bishopstown is up to standard (needs to be a Category 1 stadium).

Dundalk youth team not in this?

justshane

No just Cork.

Paz-CCFC

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

Dundalk youth team not in this?

It's split into two phases. The group phases, which mirrors the senior draw. So Dundalk would've had to have beaten Legia to get into it. And the domestic champions phase, which is the champions of the top 32 youth leagues. Ireland were 40th, but enough teams who won their youth league also qualified via the seniors, so they gave up their places and it filtered down to us. City won the U19s league last season, so that's how we qualified.

joeysoap

Paz , what criteria is used to determine Ireland's 40th placing? would a club improved coefficient improve Ireland's position from 40th position, thus giving our u19 champions an automatic/ better chance of qualifying each year? It's brilliant for Cork but it would be great if the Irish u19 winners qualified each year.

Paz-CCFC

joeysoap wrote: »

Paz , what criteria is used to determine Ireland's 40th placing? would a club improved coefficient improve Ireland's position from 40th position, thus giving our u19 champions an automatic/ better chance of qualifying each year? It's brilliant for Cork but it would be great if the Irish u19 winners qualified each year.

It's the senior national coefficient ranking. Clubs gain 0.5 points for a draw and 1 for a win in the qualifiers (double in the group stages). That gets divided by the number of teams in Europe to get the average for the year. So, Ireland have four teams, so a draw goes to 0.125 and a win to 0.25 (again, double in the groups). This year we got 1.875 so far, which is really good. Broken down between the four teams:

Cork City - 0.75 (two wins, two draws)
Dundalk - 0.625 (one win, three draws) - 6 more games to play
Pats - 0.375 (one win, one draw)
Rovers - 0.125 (one draw)

At the moment (in "mid-season", so to speak), we're 41st with 5.825, just below Latvia with 6.125. We're some way off 32nd/33rd, (Lichtenstein are 32nd, but they don't have a national league, so they don't get a CL or Youth League spot). It could be a bit hard to climb the table, but these things happen in peaks and troughs. In our golden era in Europe, we were 29th. A couple of good seasons for us and a couple of bad seasons for the leagues in between could see us back into the mid-to-low 30s. Even, say, 34th or 35th would probably nearly always guarantee you a Youth League spot, as it's likely at least a few of the domestic youth champions would have their senior teams qualify for the group.

Also, remember that the rankings they use for what round you start in, how many CL/EL places you get, if you get a Youth League place etc. works from the rankings of two years back. This it to account for the differences in summer and winter leagues. So, for this year, we used the 2014/15 rankings when we were 40th. In 2015/16, we dropped to 41st. That's the rankings that will be used to see if we get a YL spot next year. In 2016/17 (this season's rankings), we're still 41st, but if Dundalk get a result or two in the EL, we might jump another place.

The full table is here if you want to keep an eye on it. That website is always up to date about the various rankings - league, clubs etc. The person who runs it is really knowledgeable on how things work.

joeysoap

Thanks Paz, great stuff,

I heard something on the old grapevine today, good source,

JD requested 50+ tickets and 50 parking spaces for the Dundalk v Hafnarfjordur match - and didn't turn up. I find those figures a bit high but ........

Also heard the insurance on the Aviva for the Legia match was €35000. Again if true makes the case for Tallaght a no brainier.

White Horse

Only in the LOI.

Mint Sauce

Is Dundalk match not on RTE/TV3 tomorrow night, or are they only contracted to show the home fixtures.

Oat23

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Is Dundalk match not on RTE/TV3 tomorrow night, or are they only contracted to show the home fixtures.

Just Eir. They are showing it FTA though so anyone can watch.

Mint Sauce

Oat23 wrote: »

Just Eir. They are showing it FTA though so anyone can watch.

On what platform?

Oat23

Mint Sauce wrote: »

On what platform?

Eir, Sky and Vodafone customers. I think that is all of the platforms it's available on these days.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Mint Sauce

Not really FTA then.

Oat23

I don't know what you lads were expecting? They are showing it free to anyone who has Vodafone TV & Sky. They are not on Virgin or Saorview (obviously).

And it is FTA. If you have a sat box and a dish pointed at 28.2E, you can watch. It doesn't have to be a Sky box. Just said Sky as that is the service they are apart of on satellite.

joeysoap

Thought for a minute there I would get it too. In common with everyone in border area (Dundalk) I have free view ie about 80 channels on a run of the mill 30 year old aerial , also have FTA through dish (redundant in reality) so looks like a pub job to see match ( Legia are 3-0 down already :eek:)

Irish_rat

Legia getting a good hiding. Still it's Dortmund ...

dan1895

Irish_rat wrote: »

Legia getting a good hiding. Still it's Dortmund ...

Their fans are using pepper spray afainst the stewarts

Darkglasses

dan1895 wrote: »

Their fans are using pepper spray afainst the stewarts

https://twitter.com/Footy_Fooligans/status/776151096561639424

What an arsehole!

White Horse

Kick them out.

joeysoap

They won in the Aviva so no trouble, lots of Polish families at the match ( I would guess Irish based) and they were grand on the dart etc after the match but there was big following of hard core Legia supporters and they didn't give off friendly vibes. Saw a few Cork City lads at the match too, sporting their CC scarves etc, which was great to see.

Alfa Quadrifoglio

The very best of luck to Dundalk in their first ever Europa League Group stage game, AZ are a decent side, a draw tomorrow night would be an outstanding result.
Great story the Dundalk team bus pulling up to give stranded Dundalk fans a lift to the airport after their minibus had broken down on the M1.

joeysoap

Dortmund had 30 attempts on goal.

elefant

Going to watch Dundalk tonight in Alkmaar.

I haven't been to see a League of Ireland team play since Galway United-Monaghan United at a freezing cold Terryland Park about 15 years ago.

Looking forward to it!

Omackeral

Channel 423 on Sky TV lads. Eir Sport 1 are showing it on Freeview.

Omackeral

Dundalk's clearance game is weak so far, could cost them.

That_Guy

Brian Kerr. Bleedin' rapeh.

Omackeral

That_Guy wrote: »

Brian Kerr. Bleedin' rapeh.

The man should be canonized.

Oat23

I love how calm they are on the ball at the back even at this level. They never whack is aimlessly up the pitch when the defense wins it back.

edit: Dutch commentator said McMillan used to play for Sligo Wanderers.

That_Guy

Fred Friday is a wonderful name.

justshane

Great game so far.

Jelle1880

That should have been in.

justshane

Horgan did brilliant until the finish!

That_Guy

Dundalk have played brilliantly so far.

justshane

It's tough up front on your own, but,McMillan isn't making the ball stick at all.

Oat23

It'd be sh*t if they give up a silly goal on HT now. They've been great so far.