Dublin City Marathon 2016 *NO NUMBER SWAPS/SALES/TRANSFERS*

ligerdub

I run very similar times to you.

I don't know about you but I find if I run at around the 5 min per km pace and try and stick to that as rigidly as possible I can essentially go on for 3 hours before I start feeling it. If I do face problems it's because I lose discipline by running too fast from around 8km as I'm totally warmed up at that stage and I'm arguably at my strongest feeling of my whole run. My best runs (when I know I'm going to be running very far i.e. over 2 hours of running) are when I feel I'm running about 10 seconds per km within myself after the 8km point. Basically I run at the exact same pace, or try to, for the duration of the run. I can still sustain this pace at about the 20 mile distance but it feels a bit tougher at that point, but still with plenty in the tank.

Additionally then I'll deliberately run a bit slower on the steeper sections of my run, and take advantage of the downhill sections. I tend to have people passing me by on the uphills, and I tend to overtake on the downhills.

A killer for time is if you've run out of puff with a long way to go, all for the thoughts of being about 1 or 2 minutes ahead of where you'd be running at a comfortable pace. Do that and it erases all the good work and then some.

My plan is to run 2 sets of 1 hr 42 minutes HM's. If anything I would run the first half a bit slower as I know there'll be a lot of traffic in the initial stages and I don't want to use up too much energy with sprint bursts over short distances to overtake or avoid people.

Bahanaman

@Bahanaman75 Greystones service will arrive into GCD at 07.30. Also can confirm now that Malahide service will operate at 07.05 to Connolly

Tweet from Irish Rail. Scheduled to arrive @ 07:29 in Connolly. Plenty of time to allow a good brisk walk into the start as a warmup.

PGL

RayCun wrote: »

well it's better than starting fast and slowing down, but if that's your natural comfortable pace why can't you run faster in a half marathon?

I did! my half marathon pace is 4:35 per km, and my naturable comfortable pace / targetted marathon pace is 4:59 per km

PGL

Thanks for all the really good feedback guys.

I think I will position myself towards the back of Wave 1, run conservatively (maybe 5 secs over 4:59 per km marathon pace), try to keep the 3:30 pacer in view if possible for the first 20 miles and take it from there.

Do others have a similar plan?

ooter

PGL wrote: »

Thanks for all the really good feedback guys.

I think I will position myself towards the back of Wave 1, run conservatively (maybe 5 secs over 4:59 per km marathon pace), try to keep the 3:30 pacer in view if possible for the first 20 miles and take it from there.

Do others have a similar plan?

If you stick to that plan PGL I reckon you'll be fine, just resist any temptation to kick on ahead of the 3:30 pacers no matter how good you think you feel. My 2 experiences of DCM I kicked on ahead of the pacers I planned on running with in pursuit of a faster time and ended up finishing behind them, but you learn from your mistakes..

RayCun

PGL wrote: »

I did! my half marathon pace is 4:35 per km, and my naturable comfortable pace / targetted marathon pace is 4:59 per km

Easy pace and marathon pace are not the same thing, and easy pace should be substantially slower than half marathon pace!

Anyway, done now. Take it easy for the next couple of weeks, and stay behind the pacers until Fosters avenue.

hot buttered scones

ooter wrote:

If you stick to that plan PGL I reckon you'll be fine, just resist any temptation to kick on ahead of the 3:30 pacers no matter how good you think you feel. My 2 experiences of DCM I kicked on ahead of the pacers I planned on running with in pursuit of a faster time and ended up finishing behind them, but you learn from your mistakes..

That's exactly what happened to me last year with the 3.30 group. Worst feeling ever being sucked back into the group about 8 miles after leaving them and then watching the ballons dissappear off into the distance. Finished 8 minutes after then in the end. I did find it difficult running with that group though just because of the amount of people in the group so do try and find yourself a space to run in, even if it means being at the back of the group. There should be plenty of room to kick on over the last few miles if you can anyway as the group thins out.

Disclaimer: There is every chance I will in no way follow this advice myself, so say hi when you pass me out in Stillorgan.

sideswipe

ooter wrote: »

My 2 experiences of DCM I kicked on ahead of the pacers

ooter wrote: »

you learn from your mistakes

Wubble Wubble

PGL wrote: »

This will be my first marathon, and would appreciate some advice on how to pace it.
Based on my recent Dublin half marathon time (1hour 36mins 56secs) the McMillan Calculator is predicting a 3hour 24min finish time for the marathon. My other finish times in the race series are also aligning very close to this McMillan prediction.
On this basis I signed myself into Wave 1 and planned to follow the 3:30 pacer up to the 20 mile point and see how I felt at that point whether to push harder in the closing 6 miles. All of my training has been based around a marathon pace of 4:59 per km to achieve a 3hour 30min finish time, and I have been managing to achieve this average pace on all of my weekend LSRs.
However a bit of a spanner has been thrown in the works. From speaking to a few experienced runners in the last few weeks, they all generally seem to concur that very few people achieve the McMillan prediction times for the marathon, and instead they think a good rule of thumb is to multiply the half marathon time by 2 and add 20mins. On this basis my finish time would be 3hours 34mins.
If this is a more accurate prediction, then I can't follow the 3:30 pacer and would need to move myself down to Wave 2 (which I have been told is allowed, but not the other way around) if I want to follow the 3:40 pacer, and then follow the same approach of sticking with the pacer until the 20 mile mark and re-assess from that point.
The other nuance here is that I have never followed a pacer in a race event. However I'm afraid I'll start off too quick over the first half if I don't follow a pacer.
Some advice would be appreciated on:
1. What is a realistic finish time to aim for?
2. Do I need to follow a pacer for the whole marathon or maybe the first 20 miles?
3. What are people's views on running the same pace throughout vs. negative splitting?

Many thanks!

Best of luck PGL. You weren't very far ahead of me in the half. McMillan gives me 3:25, but for first time marathoners I'd tend to add a minimum of 10 minutes on at that level. It's too late for me to change waves, so I can't jump up there anyway.

Would you take 3:35-3:40? Bear in mind that if you're following the 3:40 pacers and aiming for 3:34, by staying with them till the 20 mile mark you're leaving yourself a lot to do in 6.2 miles on tiring legs. Someone here might know (without looking it up) what pace you'd have to run from Milltown to the finish.

Anyway, good luck with the rest of the training, and a strong performance on the day.

PGL

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Best of luck PGL. You weren't very far ahead of me in the half. McMillan gives me 3:25, but for first time marathoners I'd tend to add a minimum of 10 minutes on at that level. It's too late for me to change waves, so I can't jump up there anyway.

Would you take 3:35-3:40? Bear in mind that if you're following the 3:40 pacers and aiming for 3:34, by staying with them till the 20 mile mark you're leaving yourself a lot to do in 6.2 miles on tiring legs. Someone here might know (without looking it up) what pace you'd have to run from Milltown to the finish.

Anyway, good luck with the rest of the training, and a strong performance on the day.

Hi Wubble Wubble

Thanks for your response and encouragement! I am certainly not even contemplating hitting my McMillan time of 3:24, and would be delighted to get 3:34 (being honest I would be disappointed with a 3:40+ time for silly competitve reasons). I had considered moving down to Wave 2 and following the 3:40 pacer. However based on the feedback from you and others, I think I'll hang around the back of Wave 1, try to keep the 3:30 pacer within view (and never overtake him!) for the first 22 miles, and see how I feel from there on.

Best of luck to you too, and let us know how you get on.

Airtel31

PGL for my tupence worth do what you feel right but most importantly enjoy it I've done 3 and joy and adrenaline that hits you when you hit the 26 mile mark is amazing especially on the first one and would even admit it brought a tear to my eye, this is my 1st DCM while I was hoping to do a PB since then with niggles and operations I'm only fully back fit this last 3 weeks I'm going to just enjoy it get round best I can and push on for next year

RayCun

this is a great analysis of pacing
https://medium.com/running-with-data/fast-starts-slow-finishes-dublin-edition-46663817a05f#.8blclkh30
Don't go out fast!

hot buttered scones

Has anyone ever used this site:

http://mymarathonpace.com/Pacing_Spreadsheets.html

I downloaded the free version of the Dublin spreadsheet and he has quite good elevation maps. It looks interesting - gives pace adjustments for elevation, fade, negative splits. You can workout splits based on effort or pace, and you can stick in a time from one of the calculators and it will add time on to compensate for the elevation.

These kind of things interest me anyway, so I thought maybe others would be too.

Of course, there's a charge for the full working version. (I'm not advertising for this guy, but if this post is inappropriate please feel free to delete). I've stumped up the €6 odd purely out of curiosity. I'll probably spend a couple of hours just messing around with it. I might print of the pace bands as a general guide.

yaboya1

RayCun wrote: »

this is a great analysis of pacing
https://medium.com/running-with-data/fast-starts-slow-finishes-dublin-edition-46663817a05f#.8blclkh30
Don't go out fast!

Interesting article.
Amazing that a Professor of Computer Science doesn't know how to spell 'lose' though. Seems like I'm in the minority nowadays

Murph_D

yaboya1 wrote: »

Interesting article.
Amazing that a Professor of Computer Science doesn't know how to spell 'lose' though. Seems like I'm in the minority nowadays

Propellor head - not humanities. Will probably blame the spellchecker.

glacial_pace71

Murph_D wrote: »

Propellor head - not humanities. Will probably blame the spellchecker.

If you can make 'loose' rhyme with 'excuse' then it does sound like 'lose'. (I blame Clint Eastwood and his orangutan).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1mcyj958HU

davedanon

yaboya1 wrote: »

Interesting article.
Amazing that a Professor of Computer Science doesn't know how to spell 'lose' though. Seems like I'm in the minority nowadays

'Loose' instead of 'lose'?

It's a plague. An epidemic. Especially on here.

See also: 'advise' for 'advice'.

See also: 'where' for 'were'

Bahanaman

glacial_pace71 wrote:

If you can make 'loose' rhyme with 'excuse' then it does sound like 'lose'. (I blame Clint Eastwood and his orangutan).

But is that not just a lame excuse?! 😊

ooter

Did 10 miles of the course as part of a 12 miler today, jaysus it was almost as tough as the 20 miler I did last week, especially the last few miles. :eek:
Legs are really tired now, going to take it handy for the next 2 weeks.

yosser hughes

davedanon wrote: »

Maybe I should have been more specific. I was thinking of the way London transport funnels thousands of runners efficiently towards the start area. For free.

That's fair.
Munich Marathon also has free travel for runners on the day.
Definitely should be a thing for Dublin. It's only for a few hours on a relatively quite day in the city.

Bahanaman

Think Frankfurt does the free transport thing as well. Was lucky enough to be staying within walking distance of the start /finish area last year so didn't avail of it.

Murph_D

davedanon wrote: »

'Loose' instead of 'lose'?

It's a plague. An epidemic. Especially on here.

See also: 'advise' for 'advice'.

See also: 'where' for 'were'

I read a marathon race report recently with a rogue 'it's'. I was going to reply "It's not it's, it's its", but I restrained myself.

PGL

ooter wrote: »

Did 10 miles of the course as part of a 12 miler today, jaysus it was almost as tough as the 20 miler I did last week, especially the last few miles. :eek:
Legs are really tired now, going to take it handy for the next 2 weeks.

snap ooter!

I did 18 miles of the route today starting out at the Phoenix Park and finishing at heart break hill at junction of Roebuck Road and Fosters Avenue. Last few miles were tough going but glad I have done a dress rehearsal on a good chunk of the course. Signs we're up all over the place so starting to feel real now!

ger664

Bahanaman wrote: »

Think Frankfurt does the free transport thing as well. Was lucky enough to be staying within walking distance of the start /finish area last year so didn't avail of it.

Metro/Tube whatever they call it stops right under the start line.

Athens give free travel all weekend and they have a top notch metro/subway. Guess they spent their billions on infrastructure and not vacant holiday home construction

ooter

PGL wrote: »

snap ooter!

I did 18 miles of the route today starting out at the Phoenix Park and finishing at heart break hill at junction of Roebuck Road and Fosters Avenue. Last few miles were tough going but glad I have done a dress rehearsal on a good chunk of the course. Signs we're up all over the place so starting to feel real now!

How does that work PGL, do you live near the Phoenix park or roebuck road and how did you get to the start or home from the finish?
The last thing I'd want to do after running 18 miles is have to make my way home after it.
There's no way I could've ran 18 miles today, legs were shot.

hot buttered scones

I'm thinking of changing my goal. My goal time is in and around 3:25 (although I'd be happy with 3:30). PB is 3:38:39 from last year. The plan was to have a good run in Dublin and then target a fast, flat European or UK marathon in the Spring and just go for it and see what happens. The 2nd part of that plan is most definitely off now for various reasons (time to train being the main one), so now I'm thinking maybe I'll be a bit less conservative in Dublin. The wheels came off big style last year though and I'm just afraid of this happening again. This will be my 3rd marathon, but also the one I think I've trained the hardest for (P+D up to 55 plan). My most recent half was 1:31:52. I did a 10k solo time trial this morning (very very early) in 42:41 - I think I could have done better in a race though (PB is 42:01 from late June). In short - I've trained hard, followed the plan (mostly) and my target time is conservative and well outside what the calculators say (All my other PBS line up pretty well with the calculator). Most of my Marathon pace stuff has been done in the 7:45 to 7:50 range - comfortable enough, but tired by the end. This may well end up being my last marathon for a while. Long runs have been going well for the most part, but the last 2 I found tough enough.
So just go for it and trust in the training? Or be conservative and have a good race, finishing strong? Anyway I'm thinking a slow start(maybe 3:25 pace), make up some time going downhill at the back of the Park, keep it steady until about mile 15 then pick up the pace (being prepared to loose some time around Clonskeagh/Roebuck road) and if possible empty the tank over the last few miles? I'm thinking somewhere in the region of 3:20? Is this over ambitious?

ooter

hot buttered scones wrote: »

I'm thinking of changing my goal. My goal time is in and around 3:25 (although I'd be happy with 3:30). PB is 3:38:39 from last year. The plan was to have a good run in Dublin and then target a fast, flat European or UK marathon in the Spring and just go for it and see what happens. The 2nd part of that plan is most definitely off now for various reasons (time to train being the main one), so now I'm thinking maybe I'll be a bit less conservative in Dublin. The wheels came off big style last year though and I'm just afraid of this happening again. This will be my 3rd marathon, but also the one I think I've trained the hardest for (P+D up to 55 plan). My most recent half was 1:31:52. I did a 10k solo time trial this morning (very very early) in 42:41 - I think I could have done better in a race though (PB is 42:01 from late June). In short - I've trained hard, followed the plan (mostly) and my target time is conservative and well outside what the calculators say (All my other PBS line up pretty well with the calculator). Most of my Marathon pace stuff has been done in the 7:45 to 7:50 range - comfortable enough, but tired by the end. This may well end up being my last marathon for a while. Long runs have been going well for the most part, but the last 2 I found tough enough.
So just go for it and trust in the training? Or be conservative and have a good race, finishing strong? Anyway I'm thinking a slow start(maybe 3:25 pace), make up some time going downhill at the back of the Park, keep it steady until about mile 15 then pick up the pace (being prepared to loose some time around Clonskeagh/Roebuck road) and if possible empty the tank over the last few miles? I'm thinking somewhere in the region of 3:20? Is this over ambitious?

I obviously don't know your age or running history but I used the P+d 55 mile plan to get my marathon pb, but if I'd been more sensible with my pacing and stayed with pacers I reckon I would've knocked another 5 mins off my pb. I also got my HM and 10k pb following that plan.
In my opinion sub 3:20 may be just out of reach judging by your recent HM and 10k times but I wouldn't blame you at all for having a crack at it.

hot buttered scones

ooter wrote:

I obviously don't know your age or running history but I used the P+d 55 mile plan to get my marathon pb, but if I'd been more sensible with my pacing and stayed with pacers I reckon I would've knocked another 5 mins off my pb. I also got my HM and 10k pb following that plan. In my opinion sub 3:20 may be just out of reach judging by your recent HM and 10k times but I wouldn't blame you at all for having a crack at it.

Thats what I was thinking as well. I might just go out at 3:25 and try and make up some time in the second half for some thing between 3:20 and 3:25

snailsong

1:31half to 3:20 marathon isn't over ambitious in my opinion. I'd agree with being cautious early on. How about start behind the 3:20 group, let them off up Stoneybatter and hold off on Chesterfield, you should still see the balloons up ahead. Plan for about 49 at 10k, get back a few seconds on the downhills. Keep it about 4:45 to halfway, 1:41 or so?, pick up the pace slightly from 15 miles. 5 to 10 seconds per mile maybe. Hopefully you'll see the balloons coming back to you in the last few miles.

xElDeeX

Some advice needed from the boards sages! Doing my 4th marathon and all going to plan until the last couple of weeks. Goal pace is 3-4 minutes faster than my time from last year so not a huge stretch goal.
I and have maintained 30-50 miles/week all year and peaked my mileage this training cycle at just over 70mile/week so I have a lot of miles in the legs at this stage.
Came down with a sore throat a couple of weeks ago which turned into your standard miserable head cold. Did my long run that weekend but could only manage a few miles of a tester run mid week after that and that did not go well (think 12min/miles and chest pain!) Did my long run again last weekend and ended up at the doctor for antibiotics the following day so no running this week.
Presuming that I can get back to running this week do I need to change my goal? Any suggestions for the next couple of weeks training? I was planning to just throw in lots of shorter marathon pace sessions to remind myself what that feels like. Do I abandon the goal altogether and aim for a PB in the spring? (race already entered)