Silly Season and Motor Madness

Shint0

Over the years I seem to have noticed a pattern that driving behaviour becomes somewhat more erratic in the summer months speaking as someone who does a lot of motorway and city driving.

Here's what I witnessed just today.
First incident:
On the motorway about five hundred metres in front of me a van in the slow suddenly smacked into a car in the fast lane which was almost parallel with it. It's possible the van was trying to overtake by moving into the fast lane but didn't check their blindspot or might have been on their mobile but it appeared to suddenly swerve and lose control.

It literally hopped off the other car and bounced from the outside lane right across the inside lane and ended up almost on its side on two wheels on the hard shoulder. The impact sent the other car hurtling across the lane and it too ended up on the hard shoulder all within seconds. By the time I got up to it the driver had jumped out of the van and I could see he was fine but I imagine there was quite a bit of damage to the van and more than likely some to the other car.

I counted my lucky stars and thought it could have been me as I was the next car behind.

Second incident:
About twenty minutes later I'm on the outside lane on Tyrconnell Road approaching the traffic lights to take a right onto Emmet Road (Black Lion junction). Lights turn green and the cars ahead of me are making their turn at the junction.

As I'm about to make my turn a car on the inside lane for heading onto Grattan Crescent almost grazes my car on the left and suddenly swerves in front of me crossing the junction onto Emmet Road narrowly missing my left wing while steering with his left hand and talking on his mobile in his right hand. Only I spotted him in time I was able to hold back slightly and avoid him.

Naturally, I blew the f***er out of it and only that I needed to be somewhere I would have taken his reg number and reported him. He was obviously a local as he took one of the first exits off Emmet Road so it wasn't as if he didn't know where he was going.

Would be interesting to know if there are any reports or studies linking increased erratic driving behaviour with summer months/sunny weather similar to the Friday evening rush hour effect.

Damien360

Both incidents have all the hallmarks of mobile use in car.

I see different drivers on weekends compared to weekdays. The weekday driver is actually more awake (believe it or not) whereas the weekend driver is half asleep, looking into every bush, drives way below the stated road limit even in good conditions and highly likely to just do a random turn at any point of the road.

Jesus.

Shint0 wrote: »

I would have taken his reg number and reported him.

I wouldn't condone that to be honest Shinto.

Atlantic Dawn

Shint0 wrote: »

Here's what I witnessed just today.
First incident:
On the motorway about five hundred metres in front of me a van in the slow suddenly smacked into a car in the fast lane which was almost parallel with it. It's possible the van was trying to overtake by moving into the fast lane but didn't check their blindspot or might have been on their mobile but it appeared to suddenly swerve and lose control.

Wtf is this fast lane you speak of, did you get your driving licence in a pack of Sugar Puffs?

Shint0

It was a seriously dangerous manoeuvre that he did and put me and my car in danger. Somebody like that should not be behind a wheel. The traffic on Emmet Road was backed up and I had judged that I had enough room to take the exit without getting stuck in the junction while the traffic lights were green. He swerved right in front of me from the left narrowly missing me and leaving me with only just about enough room to clear the turn.

CarrickMcJoe

There's a full moon tonight...

Shint0

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Wtf is this fast lane you speak of, did you get your driving licence in a pack of Sugar Puffs?

Eh no...I just returned recently from driving in Germany so I'm still stuck on their lingo. Drivers there seem to be able to respect the rules of the road.

Jesus.

You blasted him out of it Shinto. I think that was enough.

Beta Ray Bill

Shint0 wrote: »

First incident:
On the motorway about five hundred metres in front of me a van in the slow suddenly smacked into a car in the fast lane

There is a collision nearly every day on the M50.
With all the traffic basically moving in the same direction, it's a wonder that this actually happens.

The only thing I can put it down to it lack of attention or impatient people

I've stopped using the motorbike on M50 during rush hour as if I'm involved in an accident there I'm browners. And the likelihood is high, given there is an accident nearly everyday.

We have many Many MANY crap drivers in the this country.
I have the cam on the Bike the odd time, I report anyone I catch being a complete idiot.

Shint0

grahambo wrote: »

I report anyone I catch being a complete idiot.

Was there ever any follow up to incidents you reported? I have never actually reported anyone on the roads and I have clocked up serious mileage over the years. If I did report everything I witnessed it would be a full time job but the second incident I referred to was just pure nuts and was the first time I considered it.

I've just got back from nearly a month of driving through Europe most of which was in Germany on the autobahn. Drivers in Germany get to drive high powered vehicles to maximum effect exactly because they observe the rules of the road, they respect the road and take driving seriously and in return get to enjoy the pleasure of their high spec cars.

To my knowledge road fatalities there are around average or certainly not any higher than other countries. If the driver I witnessed yesterday had been caught there he wouldn't have just got a ticket. He would probably have been thrown in jail.

Back to my original question. As someone who is quite observant and detects patterns easily I do think over the years I seem to notice drivers on Irish roads taking even more chances and people being even more careless coming into summer and during summer months so was wondering if anyone else noticed that trend as well.

cletus

As of 2015, according to WHO, Germany's road fatalities per 100,000 capita is 4.3, whereas Ireland's is 4.1. The difference between the two is probably statistically insignificant, but certainly the figures would suggest that Irish driving is no worse than German driving

Beta Ray Bill

Shint0 wrote: »

Was there ever any follow up to incidents you reported?

Nope,

They never follow up with you, you dont get to know the outcome
Ya could be wasting your time completely

Traffic watch number is: 1890 205 805

Shint0

cletus wrote: »

As of 2015, according to WHO, Germany's road fatalities per 100,000 capita is 4.3, whereas Ireland's is 4.1. The difference between the two is probably statistically insignificant, but certainly the figures would suggest that Irish driving is no worse than German driving

That's interesting, Cletus. You could look at that another way too. If both countries have comparable rates of road fatalities and one of those countries is covered in a road network with many roads at limitless speed and if we're always being told that speed kills why do we have almost a similar rate.

Shint0

grahambo wrote: »

Nope,

They never follow up with you, you dont get to know the outcome
Ya could be wasting your time completely

Traffic watch number is: 1890 205 805

If you report an incident and it's acted on one would imagine you would get called as witness to court. You would probably need more than one witness so as you say is most likely a waste of time.

Stephenc66

I don't think it is a summer thing. Over the last few years every time I am back in Ireland after after extended periods away I see more and more cars on the road. More likely common bad habits being multiplied with the increased numbers on the road.

Other than lane discipline on the motorways I don't see a huge difference in the quality of driving in Ireland to that of driving in other parts of Europe..

Beta Ray Bill

Shint0 wrote: »

If you report an incident and it's acted on one would imagine you would get called as witness to court. You would probably need more than one witness so as you say is most likely a waste of time.

All depends!

Traffic Cameras are everywhere ya know

savagethegoat

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Wtf is this fast lane you speak of, did you get your driving licence in a pack of Sugar Puffs?

The fast lane is the left most lane on the Cork South Ring Rd. Reserved for those with special permission to use it I think

Shint0

grahambo wrote: »

All depends!

Traffic Cameras are everywhere ya know

Probably not as many as in the UK or other European countries. I would imagine the likelihood of any careless or dangerous driving someone reports being also caught on camera here is quite slim.
Out of curiousity, it would be interesting to know figures of how many calls are made to Traffic Watch, how many are followed up on and if any prosecutions arise as a result.

H3llR4iser

grahambo wrote: »

Nope,

They never follow up with you, you dont get to know the outcome
Ya could be wasting your time completely

Traffic watch number is: 1890 205 805

And rightly so, otherwise people would report left right and centre out of spite and for the quick "pat on the back".

I will always be of the idea that if you're not a trained traffic corps officer, you should just do your best to avoid incidents and not report people you deem to be doing something wrong or "near misses". It's not the same as witnessing a robbery or an homicide, anybody unable to spot the difference has some big issues.

How many times you did an overtake with plenty of space in incoming traffic, only for somebody on the other lane so start flashing and beeping like crazy, even if they were still 200-300 meters away when you got back in lane? To them, you were just a "crazy driver"...would you like to get reported and hassled for that?

Mc Love

H3llR4iser wrote: »

I will always be of the idea that if you're not a trained traffic corps officer, you should just do your best to avoid incidents and not report people you deem to be doing something wrong or "near misses". It's not the same as witnessing a robbery or an homicide, anybody unable to spot the difference has some big issues.

Thats ridiculous! I was behind a driver with no rear lights on a dark stretch of road, could only tell he was in front of me because of his front lights. Called it in and the local garda was waiting for him and pulled the driver over.

Caliden

Personally I think silly season is around September/October.

It's as if a large group of people, who have never used the M50 before, are unleashed.

Shint0

Stephenc66 wrote: »

I don't think it is a summer thing.

The point I was trying to make in relation to the increased careless driving in summer was similar to the Friday evening rush-hour effect and as someone else mentioned more road traffic accidents at the weekend as people are more relaxed and less focused. Once the weather starts to improve is there a similar effect especially on sunnier days. It's just an observation I have made over the years and was wondering if there is any correlation or if any studies have been done to back it up.

Mc Love

There is just not enough enforcement of the laws of the road. Between incorrect usage of lighting, to not indicating, to inproper use of lanes/lane discipline, it's not going away until the AGS enforce the laws, and start handing out stronger penalties.

Special Circumstances

H3llR4iser wrote: »

How many times you did an overtake with plenty of space in incoming traffic, only for somebody on the other lane so start flashing and beeping like crazy, even if they were still 200-300 meters away when you got back in lane? To them, you were just a "crazy driver"...would you like to get reported and hassled for that?

LOL. I wind the window down all the way and slowly extend my arm to give them a slow sarcastic wave. I think the implication that if I have time for my window to wind all the way down and get my arm out is probably lost on the dopes though. Their brains/reactions are working on sloth-time - what seems like 10s to us is the blink of an eye to them.

Caliden

Special Circumstances wrote: »

LOL. I wind the window down all the way and slowly extend my arm to give them a slow sarcastic wave. I think the implication that if I have time for my window to wind all the way down and get my arm out is probably lost on the dopes though. Their brains/reactions are working on sloth-time - what seems like 10s to us is the blink of an eye to them.

I must try that next time.

H3llR4iser

Mc Love wrote: »

Thats ridiculous! I was behind a driver with no rear lights on a dark stretch of road, could only tell he was in front of me because of his front lights. Called it in and the local garda was waiting for him and pulled the driver over.

Of course there was gonna be the extreme example about the one situation that is...light or darkness (:D);

Shint0 wrote: »

The point I was trying to make in relation to the increased careless driving in summer was similar to the Friday evening rush-hour effect and as someone else mentioned more road traffic accidents at the weekend as people are more relaxed and less focused. Once the weather starts to improve is there a similar effect especially on sunnier days. It's just an observation I have made over the years and was wondering if there is any correlation or if any studies have been done to back it up.

There indeed seems to be a correlation, an increase of traffic collisions over the week end is usually observable in data across different countries; I know for a fact it happens in Italy. What's absolutely ridiculous, however, is that nobody ever seems to correlate such data with the fact people, on average, drink more on the week end.

Shint0

H3llR4iser wrote: »

And rightly so, otherwise people would report left right and centre out of spite and for the quick "pat on the back".

I will always be of the idea that if you're not a trained traffic corps officer, you should just do your best to avoid incidents and not report people you deem to be doing something wrong or "near misses". It's not the same as witnessing a robbery or an homicide, anybody unable to spot the difference has some big issues.

I totally get the point that the system can be wide open to abuse and false claims can be reported. The example you gave was clearly someone who is not a good judge of speed or distance. That doesn't negate the fact that some people deliberately or through ignorance flout the rules of the road.

I don't think you need to be a member of the traffiic corps to recognise careless or dangerous driving. While ordinary motorists can't make a definitive interpretation of the law many competent and experienced drivers can at least spot when someone is engaging in dangerous driving practices. I wouldn't have been able to pass my driving test if I didn't know what's acceptable from what's not.
AGS are not always present when an incident occurs and have to rely on witness testimony and it's up to them and the prosecution services to work from the information supplied.

The question has been raised in the thread if the Traffic Watch service actually acts on information they receive. How do they process that information? I hear your point that it shouldn't act on civilian reports so that would make it redundant. Has there been any evaluation of the service I wonder? What type of resources does it have? Is it staffed by members of AGS or civilians. Is it just window dressing and just acts as another deterrent or does it actively pursue reports made by the public.

Not asking you specifically, H3llR4iser, but perhaps someone might be able to answer.

Jesus.

grahambo wrote: »

Nope,They never follow up with you, you dont get to know the outcomeYa could be wasting your time completely

No disrespect but its hardly surprising. If they get the same person ringing them up constantly they're naturally going to think there's something wrong with them.

_Kaiser_

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Wtf is this fast lane you speak of, did you get your driving licence in a pack of Sugar Puffs?

Jesus. wrote: »

You blasted him out of it Shinto. I think that was enough.

Ah this forum...

OP nearly gets cleaned out of it twice in 20 minutes by muppets weaving all over the place while on the phone and yet you think the real issue is his use of the term "slow/fast lane" and he definitely shouldn't follow-up on it - bad karma perhaps?

Yep, OP is a monster! :rolleyes:

Shint0

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Ah this forum...

OP nearly gets cleaned out of it twice in 20 minutes by muppets weaving all over the place while on the phone and yet you think the real issue is his use of the term "slow/fast lane" and he definitely shouldn't follow-up on it - bad karma perhaps?

Yep, OP is a monster! :rolleyes:

Thanks Kaiser.

I was wondering what kind of forum I had stumbled into as I don't post here too often. Not that I'm afraid of male-dominated environments. Implied threats of violence on the other hand I don't take too kindly to. My car would probably 'blast' some of theirs off the road....but hey, there would be no percentage in that for me as it's not a Matchbox that came out of a box of cereal.

Be careful out there folks.

Jesus.

Shint0 wrote: »

I was wondering what kind of forum I had stumbled into as I don't post here too often. Not that I'm afraid of male-dominated environments. Implied threats of violence on the other hand I don't take too kindly to.

Ms Shinto, I've read back through the thread and I can't find any implied threats of violence. Maybe you were thinking of a different thread/Forum?

Special Circumstances

Jesus. wrote: »

Ms Shinto, I've read back through the thread and I can't find any implied threats of violence. Maybe you were thinking of a different thread/Forum?

Yeah. Can't see it. Even the obligatory boards.ie "snitches get stitches" is absent.

Shint0

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Yeah. Can't see it. Even the obligatory boards.ie "snitches get stitches" is absent.

You are indeed correct, SC. It appears to have been removed.

Special Circumstances

Shint0 wrote: »

You are indeed correct, SC. It appears to have been removed.

I think it was "tongue in cheek"*, considering the poster, if i'm thinking of the right thread. That attitude has been popping up more and more often on here.

*not sure if tongue in cheek or ironic or sarcastic is the right description. There are plenty of people who genuinely hold that view here, and others who make fun of it by applying it to every situation.

Shint0

Special Circumstances wrote: »

I think it was "tongue in cheek"*, considering the poster, if i'm thinking of the right thread. That attitude has been popping up more and more often on here.

*not sure if tongue in cheek or ironic or sarcastic is the right description. There are plenty of people who genuinely hold that view here, and others who make fun of it by applying it to every situation.

It was a stand-alone comment without any other contribution to the OP or the discussion but interesting you say that some people do hold that view and it seems to be popping up more and more in the forum. Addressing some of the various questions which have come up in the thread would be more helpful in my opinion. After all, we are all motor enthusiasts here and safer driving on the roads gives a more pleasurable driving experience, don't you think?

Jesus.

Ms Shinto who said it and what was said?

Shint0

Jesus. wrote: »

Ms Shinto who said it and what was said?

The comment appears to have been removed so I have no idea. New-ish posters aren't always familiar with more established posters style so there is no way to guage if somebody is being serious or facetious especially if there is no further comment or willingness to engage on what's actually a serious topic i.e. careless and dangerous driving on the roads. I'm more familiar with AH so what might fly there doesn't necessarily apply in other fora.

The thread has thrown up a few different issues namely:
- Do certain circumstances /condtions lead to more careless driving i.e. weather conditions/ time of year, Friday rush-hour/ weekend effect etc.

- International perspective: Are we any more or less careful drivers compared to other countries, or is there more or less strict enforcement of the rules of the road here, comparatively speaking leading to...

- Should motorists report careless or dangerous driving witnessed (actually an intetesting topic and which I addressed in one of my posts) and what is the remit if any of the Traffic Watch service?

pcardin

Mc Love wrote: »

There is just not enough enforcement of the laws of the road. Between incorrect usage of lighting, to not indicating, to inproper use of lanes/lane discipline, it's not going away until the AGS enforce the laws, and start handing out stronger penalties.

Amen! And that is the main difference between Ireland and the same Germany for example. In Ireland police is not bothered with these traffic offenses. And humans nature is - whats not forbiden (or punished) is ok to do. :pac:

Jesus.

H3llR4iser wrote: »

And rightly so, otherwise people would report left right and centre out of spite and for the quick "pat on the back".

That's exactly what most of those people are all about. A guy earlier on said he's reported dozens of people for God knows what. What kind of individual must he be? Its fairly obvious isn't it

Shint0

Jesus. wrote: »

That's exactly what most of those people are all about. A guy earlier on said he's reported dozens of people for God knows what. What kind of individual must he be? Its fairly obvious isn't it

I'm not sure that's a fair comment, Jesus (Jesus ).

The poster didn't give specific examples but they said they travel the M50 every day and can't use their bike anymore as the standard of other motorists' driving puts him(?) at serious risk and has now had to resort to using a dash cam. That's not insignificant. It seriously inconveniences someone who owns a bike and would prefer the option of travelling to work by bike.

Another example. I was driving in the outside lane at the start of rush hour on a three lane stretch of road over a month ago, start of summer. A car was travelling in the middle lane just ahead of me with a young child holding a small toy animal out the rear side window. The toy flew out of the child's hand back onto the road.

The mother suddenly slapped on the brakes and tried to weave her way through the traffic over to the hard shoulder presumably with the intention of trying to retrieve the toy from the middle of the road - during rush hour. I did think at the time that's the start of silly season.

Should that mother have been reported? I don't know. I can appreciate that kids can sometimes be a distraction while driving but she could have caused a pile-up never mind putting both herself and her child in danger.

Would reporting that type of incident be a preventative measure so in future her automatic instinct would be to keep driving rather than to stop? Would issuing her with a fine and hit her in the pocket make her think twice in future?

There seems to be an impression running here that the profile of everyone who considers reporting dangerous driving is spiteful, petulant or doing it for kicks. People are getting called out here as being a grass and made to seem like a social pariah. Everyone must obey the code of silence. In some instances it's better to be unpopular than six feet under.

Jesus.

Shint0 wrote: »

There seems to be an impression running here that the profile of everyone who considers reporting dangerous driving is spiteful, petulant or doing it for kicks. People are getting called out here as being a grass and made to seem like a social pariah. Everyone must obey the code of silence. In some instances it's better to be unpopular than six feet under.

If that's what you've gathered from reading this Forum then I'm more than slightly perplexed. It is almost entirely the opposite. There's only a couple of people who go against the grain and they're certainly not liked as a result. Rest assured, Ms Shinto, you're with the large majority of Motors Boardsies on this issue

Shint0

Jesus. wrote: »

If that's what you've gathered from reading this Forum then I'm more than slightly perplexed. It is almost entirely the opposite.

I would certainly have agreed with that until I started this thread and it seemed all thr dissenters descended en masse.

I was slightly perplexed by your comment about that poster as to 'what type of person he is? It's fairly obvious' wink wink etc

You haven't really put forward any arguments as to why someone in that position ought not report dangerous driving. We're just all supposed to come to the same unspoken conclusion You just state you don't condone it and then leave it at that

Jesus.

Because its been done to death already on this Forum Ms Shinto. No point in rehashing the old arguments all over again

Mc Love

Saw another beauty this morning, a motorist had parked on a main Limerick roundabout, right next to a Garda station to drop the kids off at school. Should have had his licence confiscated on the spot.

Shint0

Jesus. wrote: »

Because its been done to death already on this Forum Ms Shinto. No point in rehashing the old arguments all over again

As are so many other threads right across Boards. That's what keeps the traffic flowing. Circle of life and all that..;)

Shint0

Mc Love wrote: »

Saw another beauty this morning, a motorist had parked on a main Limerick roundabout, right next to a Garda station to drop the kids off at school. Should have had his licence confiscated on the spot.

You can bet the farm on it that's not the first time he has done that.

coolbeans

Jesus. wrote: »

What kind of individual must he be? Its fairly obvious isn't it

Would you ever give over. All you do on here is negatively characterise those who don't agree with your frankly bizarre sense of right and wrong with your implied insults. It's very sly and nasty IMO.

josip

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Of course there was gonna be the extreme example about the one situation that is...light or darkness (:D);



There indeed seems to be a correlation, an increase of traffic collisions over the week end is usually observable in data across different countries; I know for a fact it happens in Italy. What's absolutely ridiculous, however, is that nobody ever seems to correlate such data with the fact people, on average, drink more on the week end.

They also go to church much more at the weekend.
Why hasn't anyone correlated that mass is the real killer?

Jesus.

Shint0 wrote: »

As are so many other threads right across Boards. That's what keeps the traffic flowing. Circle of life and all that..;)

I see what you did there

Shint0

I did some digging to see if there was anything to back up my hunch as nobody here seems to have picked up on it.

This was reported in a local Canadian newspaper just last year which seems to suggest there is indeed some link between increased collisions and summer weather, and you could infer from that increased careless driving generally with or without fatal or life-threatening collisions.

http://www.mitchelladvocate.com/2015/07/06/careless-driving-may-be-more-affluent-during-good-weather

"Wijnand is further perplexed by recent collision statistics that show as of late there have been more collisions during optimal driving times and conditions than at times when police expect there to be more collisions, such as on Friday and Saturday nights during poor weather.

"Hopefully this isn't a trend, but what we really want to say is take your driving seriously, especially when the weather seems perfect and you think you can let your defences down - don't, because that's when we see our serious collisions occurring now, especially in the summer time", Wijnand continued".

In the Irish and European context taken from the RSA Annual Report, 2014 pg 4

"For the second year in a row, road deaths have increased. A total of 195 lives were lost on the road in 2014. This marks a 4% increase compared to 2013.

Of particular concern is the rise in vulnerable road user deaths. This includes pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists, the young and older people.

It is difficult to say for sure what is behind the increase. The pattern seems to have been mirrored across the EU. Our closest neighbour Northern Ireland saw a significant increase in casualties. There were also increases in the number of people killed on the roads in Germany, France and the UK, the EU's three most populous countries.

A contibutory factor seems to have been the hot weather. This may have increased the number of vulnerable road users on the road, and as a consequence increased their exposure to risk. It could explain the large number of cyclists and motorcyclists killed". The report goes on to add there are also more vehicles on the road due to increase in new vehicle sales which all signal increased risk.

If you throw in a few more variables such as lax enforcement of traffic rules here plus climate change would that indicate a potential for increased road fatalities here in summer??

Jesus.

coolbeans wrote: »

It's very sly and nasty IMO.

I'm the sly one on this issue?!!