Child marked absent from school because he had a doctors appointment

_Whimsical_

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

That's really disgraceful if she missed out on a certificate. As you say it takes a lot of effort for both the parent and child to make a record like that and it should be rewarded. We should teach 6 year olds that if they strive for something over the course of a year that it will count for something. Similarly there should be a big congratulations given to a child in 6th for never having missed a day. There should be a bit of discretion in these things, they are only children after all. We should be raising kids who take pride in their commitment to something and everything should be done to encourage it.

What effort does it take by the parent & child?
I'm genuinely interested to know

Congratulations? For never being sick? For never having a relation die? For never needing any appointments during school hours?

Sleeper12

Student wasn't there for roll call due to genuine illness. What is the big deal.
You need to sit your child down & explain that this is perfectly Reasonable.
Any teacher will tell you that the pupils with the near perfect attendance record is usually the child where both parents are working & there were plenty of days when they should have been at home due to illness.

Trimm Trabb

I'm pretty sure that all attendances are submitted to dept of education electronically by 10am - that gives latecomers an extra hour to get on the system.

Sometimes a school might make an exception and mark a kid in if you know they have an appointment and will be in later - however sometimes kids say they will be in and don't come in and school are over a barrel then. The school is just compling with the law.

Good school attendance is commendable but is a minimum expectation for any child/parent who has reasonable expectations of themselves in my opinion - not worth a second thought and given the amount of issues of real importance on teachers/principals plates I wouldn't push it.

siobhan08

notjustsweet wrote: »

Has your child never been sick in all his time in school? I hope you aren't sending a sick child to school to pass on his bugs to everyone else.

Unfortunately he was absent and will be marked as such, even if he was marked in for the time he was present it would only be 99.5%.

Both my brother and I never missed a day in 8 years of primary school. so it can happen. We were lucky to never be too sick that we couldn't go into school. Both got the chicken pox during the summer and if we ever did get colds. it always seemed to be when we were on holidays

byhookorbycrook

Trimm Trabb wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that all attendances are submitted to dept of education electronically by 10am - that gives latecomers an extra hour to get on the system.

Primary rolls certainly don't get submitted to the DES day by day, but within the school, the roll has to be called within a certain time frame.I know of schools pulled up for not calling the roll in this time and at least two times where the schools were pulled up for having left a space when a child didn't arrive until later.

Trimm Trabb

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Primary rolls certainly don't get submitted to the DES day by day, but within the school, the roll has to be called within a certain time frame.I know of schools pulled up for not calling the roll in this time and at least two times where the schools were pulled up for having left a space when a child didn't arrive until later.

Roll books are obsolete since September - as far as I know attendance is submitted daily online.

KatW4

Trimm Trabb wrote:

I'm pretty sure that all attendances are submitted to dept of education electronically by 10am - that gives latecomers an extra hour to get on the system.

This is the case in my school. The roll has to be filled in online by 9:50 and it can't be changed once it is done. There's nothing the teacher or the school can do as they are following the rules from the department.

neris

if the biggest problem your child ever has to deal with in life is missing 1 days school they,ll have lead a very cosseted closeted life

njs030

siobhan08 wrote: »

Both my brother and I never missed a day in 8 years of primary school. so it can happen. We were lucky to never be too sick that we couldn't go into school. Both got the chicken pox during the summer and if we ever did get colds. it always seemed to be when we were on holidays

What qualifies as not too sick though? Who makes the decision that it's reasonable to go to school with whatever illnesses and pass it on to someone who may be less robust?
In my opinion children in anything less than perfect health should stay at home and not pass their germs onto others.
I say this as a parent of a child with a low immune system- what might be a mild cold in one child who would only need 1 day off can be a severe cold and a week off in someone else. Thinking of others is also a good lesson for a child to learn.

Edited to say I don't mean you in particular Siobhan, of course it can happen that a child never gets sick, it's just more common parents send sick children to school because they have to work etc with no thought if the affect that sickness has on the rest of the class.

Cork Lass

As someone who had unbroken attendance for 13 years I can honestly say it's not an achievement, it's just bad luck. Every sickness I ever had was during school holidays. My siblings were more fortunate than me and got the occasional/normal sick days. I would have loved an occasional duvet day but no such luck.

byhookorbycrook

Trimm Trabb wrote: »

Roll books are obsolete since September - as far as I know attendance is submitted daily online.

The roll may be called on a system such as Aladdin, this is not submitted to the DES daily.

snickerpuss

I had a chronic illness as a child and missed c.30 days every year. I remember the teacher telling the class how many days I had missed and how I had the worst rate of attendance and being embarrassed about it. It wasn't as if I enjoyed my hospital stays or missing class trips etc. Perfect attendance is great but a child with illness is unfortunate not bad! You should be glad your child is well enough to have 99% attendance.

retro:electro

Op you should have been cuter and sent him in for the roll call then collected him after it for his appointment. You'll know for the next one.

_Whimsical_

snickerpuss wrote: »

I had a chronic illness as a child and missed c.30 days every year. I remember the teacher telling the class how many days I had missed and how I had the worst rate of attendance and being embarrassed about it. It wasn't as if I enjoyed my hospital stays or missing class trips etc. Perfect attendance is great but a child with illness is unfortunate not bad! You should be glad your child is well enough to have 99% attendance.

I totally agree with you. I was that kid too. I missed a full 6 months once. It wasn't fair, it deserves greater reward for hanging on in there despite great odds. I bet you had to do school work at home while sick like I did too. However giving to one child for attendance shouldn't have to take away from another.

Personally I think that it is an achievement to be there every single day for years. We are creating citizens, there is a whole hidden curriculum we learn at school, that being on time matters, that meeting deadlines matters, that turning up every day regardless of what's going on in your life matters. If we want to encourage those values then we should reward them and where small kids are concerned we shouldn't withhold reward over petty things like being 20 mins late or going to the dr for an hour once.

I do think there's a level of effort involved too to never once be late, to never once have a day off after a holiday or a wedding etc, to face in with hayfever or a headache or whatever. If someones never turned in late or missed a day up until the end of 6th that will have required some commitment in my opinion.

Does that cast an ugly shaddow on every child who has ever been sick or had a lousy thing happen that caused a school absence? It shouldn't and as adults we should be teaching them that not telling them at 6 that petty rules trump what's fair.

tele2

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

First off when a child is absent for the roll call he/she is absent that day and the excuse given by the parent/guardian is noted amd kept on file.

Schools are required to call the roll usually within the first hour of the school day.

Schools must keep a record of all attendances and quarterly must submit to TUSLA the details of pupils who have missed 20 or more schooldays and the reasons if any given which are categorised as unexplained, illness, urgent family reason, other - this is done at the end of Sept, Dec, March and June and pupils who have missed 20 or more days must be resubmitted to TUSLA.

Schools were given the option to keep paper roll books or use electronic roll books such as Aladdin or use both from Sept 2015. However, if a school chooses to use just an electronic roll then that roll must conform to Dept of Edn guidelines - for example if a teacher calls a roll later than setup in Aladdin then Aladdin notifies the teacher the roll is being called late and requests the teacher to document a reason for the late call. If a teacher calls a pupil present and subsequently attempts to change the attendance record to absent then Aladdin again prompts the teacher to enter a reason for the change. In the OPs case the fact that the pupils was attending an appt with a doctor is not a justification for changing the roll. Altering a roll for reasons not allowed is considered a falsification of documentation and is considered a serious offence by the teacher and the school.

Aladdin rolls and similar packages if they are the sole method of recording attendance are not sent to the Dept of Edn daily, weekly, monthly or ever but are required to be available for inspection should an inspector so request.

I would imagine a requirement in the future for all school attendances to go live to the department. It would allow the Dept, TUSLA and other agencies involved in child welfare to know at any given time who is and who is not present in school.

Finally, 100% attendance can only be given in cases where a pupil has full attendance. I would suggest that the OP contact the school and request that an exception is given in this case and that the child receive a similar merit award for near full attendance.

siobhan08

notjustsweet wrote: »

What qualifies as not too sick though? Who makes the decision that it's reasonable to go to school with whatever illnesses and pass it on to someone who may be less robust?
In my opinion children in anything less than perfect health should stay at home and not pass their germs onto others.
I say this as a parent of a child with a low immune system- what might be a mild cold in one child who would only need 1 day off can be a severe cold and a week off in someone else. Thinking of others is also a good lesson for a child to learn.

Edited to say I don't mean you in particular Siobhan, of course it can happen that a child never gets sick, it's just more common parents send sick children to school because they have to work etc with no thought if the affect that sickness has on the rest of the class.

If I had a mild cold/cough/tummy or head ache I went too school and it wasn't my parents wanting to send me, it was me wanting to go to school. Kids lie about about being sick to not go to school. No point in teaching a child that a mild illness is a reason to stay of school. It would better off teaching them to cover their face if they sneeze/cough, throw away a tissue if they use it etc.That way they are limiting the speed of germs. School help prepare them for the later life. They are not going to be able to take a day off work whenever they feel a bit rough. If that was the case than most work places would be down staff every few days and productivity would suffer.

I work with children and it's shocking that some haven't been thought basic hygiene to cover their face if the cough or sneeze

_Whimsical_

Rallycrazygirl wrote: »

I totally sympathise with the child and parent. I have three children, the oldest just about to finish 6th class. Out of the three of them they have never missed a days school. I know that they too would be upset if 99% was on there report when they had gone in for the remainder of the day. This child should be applauded as they still had the mind set to go in when plenty of other children and parents would say why bother.
There are plenty of parents and children too lazy to bother getting up in the mornings to get to school. However a lot of these are on social welfare payments and getting every hand out going that the rest of us dont get. And are just leading there children down the same lazy paths they have taken and will never have any ambition in life only to go on social welfare as well. These are people who are too lazy to hold down jobs and think it's also ok to skip work. There teaching there kids from an early age that attendance for school doesn't matter and as they get older that the same applies to work and college.
When my children weren't in the school system I had to pay childcare when me and my husband worked, we got no hand outs. We still had to pay childcare if the children were sick or on holidays. We were paying 480 euro per week in childcare at one stage. I couldn't turn around to a crèche and say I won't bother today and won't pay. It's the same with school your legally obliged to send your kids to school so why are so many parents and kids so lazy and useless. I can guarantee you that the majority of the moaners to this topic are the people who never paid for childcare and are getting hand outs and are not dedicated to anything in life only being layabouts. But see nothing wrong with missing school for no good reason.
My children take pride in there attendance but also have achieved the top grades in all there subjects in school from junior infants up. I am not a pushy mother my children take pride in everything they do and I think that this other patent and child have every right to be upset. And I too would be.

Right to be upset, I agree.

Right to tar a whole section of society as lazy bludgers, absolutely not. Loads of people are on social welfare for very varied reasons, most of them legitimate, particularly in the last 8 years or so.It has nothing to do with this conversation though.
A dreadful pity to teach your kids important lessons about attendance and at the same time pass such a biased,unfair,unfounded attitude like this onto them.

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

There before the leaving cert started there was a typical-private-school-head interviewed on RTE news who had a 100% attendance record all through primary and secondary school, I think he was under the impression that it would help him get a top job in one of the big 4 accountancy firms, or something...

audi12

raydator wrote: »

Hi,

Wonder if anyone could give me some advise.

Normally the following would probably not be an issue but in our case it's a big deal!

My son is just about to complete his sixth year in primary school. His school report was delivered today and it stated that he had a 99% attendance record to date this year. Now 99% out of a hundred is excellent, but what happened to the last 1%. Well I had to bring him to the doctors one morning to get him checked up as he was unwell back in December.

Now I hear you say what's 1%, well if I add in that in the six years completed he's only missed one day back in first class due to being unwell it's a big deal to my son. He prides himself (and so do I) in the fact that his attendance record to date is excellent.

So I went to the school today and asked why he was marked absent when he did attend school after the doctor visit. I had him in the school no later than 11:30am. I was advised that my son had missed roll call in the morning and therefore was marked absent for the day. When I put it to them that he did not miss a school day I was told the system does not allow them to mark my son as present after they marked him as absent.

Surely they could update the system? Why should my sons attendance record be recorded incorrectly? He was upset today when he saw his school report.

What can I do? Should he not be rewarded for school attendance rather than punished?

I'm sure you can tell from the post that I feel quite passionate about this issue, so please no comments telling me to get over it or its only 1%...
We want his school record to reflect his actual attendance at school.

Thanks for any information or help in relation to this...

who cares what does it matter ...

freshpopcorn

Bring you kid out for a meal or something they enjoy doing to reward there excellent attendance and finishing primary school.
Your kid is about to finish primary school and start secondary in September. Between the transition from primary to secondary/new subjects/different teachers/new class mates/hearing about this important exam the Junior cert/this on top of becoming a teenager /puberty/peer pressure to name a few. They shouldn't be so worried about attendance. So just move on and not make a big deal out of it!
Edit: I'm not sure If your son finished fourth or sixth class.

Canis Lupus

audi12 wrote: »

who cares what does it matter ...

It matters for Facebook statuses.

1st world problems n all that....

shar01

"Show me your school attendance certificate" - said no employer ever.

In employment, showing up at 11.30am would generally require a half day annual leave to be taken for the morning.

Even if the system showed your son's attendance for the afternoon, his attendance would still be 99.5% and still a great achievement.

But please OP don't turn into one of those helicopter or bulldozer parents. It won't help him in the future.

Avatar MIA

Rallycrazygirl wrote: »

I totally sympathise with the child and parent. I have three children, the oldest just about to finish 6th class. Out of the three of them they have never missed a days school. I know that they too would be upset if 99% was on there report when they had gone in for the remainder of the day. This child should be applauded as they still had the mind set to go in when plenty of other children and parents would say why bother.
There are plenty of parents and children too lazy to bother getting up in the mornings to get to school. However a lot of these are on social welfare payments and getting every hand out going that the rest of us dont get. And are just leading there children down the same lazy paths they have taken and will never have any ambition in life only to go on social welfare as well. These are people who are too lazy to hold down jobs and think it's also ok to skip work. There teaching there kids from an early age that attendance for school doesn't matter and as they get older that the same applies to work and college.
When my children weren't in the school system I had to pay childcare when me and my husband worked, we got no hand outs. We still had to pay childcare if the children were sick or on holidays. We were paying 480 euro per week in childcare at one stage. I couldn't turn around to a crèche and say I won't bother today and won't pay. It's the same with school your legally obliged to send your kids to school so why are so many parents and kids so lazy and useless. I can guarantee you that the majority of the moaners to this topic are the people who never paid for childcare and are getting hand outs and are not dedicated to anything in life only being layabouts. But see nothing wrong with missing school for no good reason.
My children take pride in there attendance but also have achieved the top grades in all there subjects in school from junior infants up. I am not a pushy mother my children take pride in everything they do and I think that this other patent and child have every right to be upset. And I too would be.

What a pointless rant.

Cork Lass

Rallycrazygirl wrote: »

I totally sympathise with the child and parent. I have three children, the oldest just about to finish 6th class. Out of the three of them they have never missed a days school. I know that they too would be upset if 99% was on there report when they had gone in for the remainder of the day. This child should be applauded as they still had the mind set to go in when plenty of other children and parents would say why bother.
There are plenty of parents and children too lazy to bother getting up in the mornings to get to school. However a lot of these are on social welfare payments and getting every hand out going that the rest of us dont get. And are just leading there children down the same lazy paths they have taken and will never have any ambition in life only to go on social welfare as well. These are people who are too lazy to hold down jobs and think it's also ok to skip work. There teaching there kids from an early age that attendance for school doesn't matter and as they get older that the same applies to work and college.
When my children weren't in the school system I had to pay childcare when me and my husband worked, we got no hand outs. We still had to pay childcare if the children were sick or on holidays. We were paying 480 euro per week in childcare at one stage. I couldn't turn around to a crèche and say I won't bother today and won't pay. It's the same with school your legally obliged to send your kids to school so why are so many parents and kids so lazy and useless. I can guarantee you that the majority of the moaners to this topic are the people who never paid for childcare and are getting hand outs and are not dedicated to anything in life only being layabouts. But see nothing wrong with missing school for no good reason.
My children take pride in there attendance but also have achieved the top grades in all there subjects in school from junior infants up. I am not a pushy mother my children take pride in everything they do and I think that this other patent and child have every right to be upset. And I too would be.

Are you actually serious?

eviltwin

99% is an incredible achievement. Why can that not be celebrated, why does the fact he was out one day matter? He was sick, it happens, it doesn't take away from his excellent attendance record.

I only wish that my kid was able to make 99% but he has to miss school regularly due to a medical issue. Seriously OP count your blessings that you have a child in good health who actually wants to attend school.

pwurple

Moonbeam wrote: »

I completely understand your issue.
My little one is only in 1st class and has never missed a day her report this year said that she did.
She was 15 minutes late one morning because her brother fell and cut his knees.
That certificate at the end of the year means so much to her and to me.
I feel that we often have to give up stuff to have them there every day and it is not easy so they deserve the credit for it.

Ah that sucks.

I know what you mean about giving up things. Reasonably priced holidays seems to be one! It's school or a holiday for us, this year we chose school. I'm not sure we will next year after experiencing what they seem to be doing in June.

My daughter does not have perfect attendance, I kept her home when she had some bug or other... But if she had apart from 15 minutes, I'd be a little annoyed alright. I always liked to aim for 100% on everthing! Never once got it on attendance as a child, but oh i remember I wanted it!

The morning off for the doctor being marked as out seems fair enough I have to say. It would be too difficult to manage holding those roll calls open until the afternoon, and I don't think there is a 1/2 day option. A solution is to bring them to the doctor in the afternoon in future if it's not serious, but it seems the school is correct here.

Xyzforsure

How come there rules to not apply to the travelling community? ??

Wesser

I think you should celebrate this achievement with your child.

I think the important learning point here for your son is that life is imperfect. Sometimes we don't feel well and have to go to the dr. When he enters the working world he will be docked pay for a sick day. Such is the reality and inperfection of life and part of growing up is that we have to learn that.

I do not think you should approach the school over this as I thinkpushing for a perfect record is ' helicopter ' parenting / overzealous defence of your son which in the long run does not skill your child with the resilience he needs when **** / unfair things happen in life, which they will again.

lazygal

Xyzforsure wrote: »

How come there rules to not apply to the travelling community? ??

What the hell are you on about?

BrianBoru00

snickerpuss wrote: »

I had a chronic illness as a child and missed c.30 days every year. Iremember the teacher telling the class how many days I had missed and how I had the worst rate of attendance and being embarrassed about it. It wasn't as if I enjoyed my hospital stays or missing class trips etc. Perfect attendance is great but a child with illness is unfortunate not bad! You should be glad your child is well enough to have 99% attendance.

What an absolute cnut.