Beginner Decoying Pigeon and Crow

1shot16

Well there,

Im new to decoy shooting recently i bought about:
7 crow decoys
7 pigeon decoys
Jack Pyke Camo Net
Hide poles

Im thinking about going out eithier tomorrow or the coming days as the fields have been cut and theres loads of crows and pigeons about and there a nuisance to the farmer.

Im wondering what time is the best and also what patterns are the best to use if i want to shoot both pigeon and crows.

Also most importantly how far should the land infront of me be clear from livestock when im shooting?Also can i shoot in a field beside cattle with the hide facing and shooting away ..they dont seem to be spooked by gun shots.

Using a Baikal SxS 12g ive Eley super game 32g No 6 shot.

Any tips welcome thanks 1shot16

cookimonster

Sorry for raining on your parade but have a read of the following :

Wildlife Act Ammendment 2000

TABLE
(1) Notwithstanding anything contained in this Act apart from this section, but subject to section 42, a person shall not—
(c) use a stuffed or artificial decoy in the form of any bird for the purpose of hunting any protected wild birds, other than wood pigeons, wild duck and wild geese, or
(3) Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions of this section, the Minister may by order prohibit throughout the State or in any particular area thereof—
(b) the use of any orally or manually operated whistle or other instrument or appliance (not being recording apparatus) which imitates, or emits calls similar to, the calls of plover, wild duck or wild geese or emits recorded such calls.

If you knock any crows use them as decoys propped up on any of the following - cut bicycle spokes, garden canes or thin branches cut to size. Insert the stakes either under the chin or up through the anus and into the base of the skull.

It's not always where the birds are landing that's the best place to set up. If their determined to get into that spot well then happy days but some of the best shooting is when you pull them off a consistent flight line. This ensures a consistent supply of new birds coming into the pattern. If you have a field with a build up of birds and thy are disturbed chances are they'll get up and fly to a quite spot so unless you have guns spread out you'll be at a loss.

Arrange pigeon decoys in 'L' or horseshoe pattern with the deeks facing into the wind and the open part of the pattern to the rear. Pigeons will fly / land into the wind and will look for open spots on patterns to land. Crows are more random and you can cluster them in groups. Don't mix crows and pigeons keep the pattern separated.
Fill out your patterns with dead birds, don't break cover for ever downed bird but in most cases don't have dead birds up side down or incomers will be scared off. If your set up is not working tweek it. If birds are flying by and not coming in then there's a issue with fieldcraft or patterns

Go early in the morning before the birds are active or set up midday when there's a chance thier gone to roost. Don't set up with livestock in the field it's not good practice and be observant of neighbouring animals. Ideally set up with the wind blowing up your backside so birds will come into you from the front. Crows are very weary so you need to be in good cover.
It can be a bit difficult decoying pigeons this time of the year so if you get little return persevere and try to dig up a bit of permission with crops on it and come harvest time you'll have a ball.
Lastly and if you see my other posts I've put links for the annual derogation so arm yourself with a copy, knowledge is power.

Half-cocked

Wildlife Act Ammendment 2000

TABLE
(1) Notwithstanding anything contained in this Act apart from this section, but subject to section 42, a person shall not—
(c) use a stuffed or artificial decoy in the form of any bird for the purpose of hunting any protected wild birds, other than wood pigeons, wild duck and wild geese, or

'Any protected wild bird' does not include rooks, jackdaws, magpies. You may decoy these species. Other corvids are protected.

Wood Pigeons can also be decoyed - they are specifically mentioned above. But be aware that you can only shoot Wood Pigeons and Feral Pigeons, other dove species are protected. Racing Pigeons are some ones property and also off limits (you can tell a tightly bunched flock of racing pigeons zooming past heading for home quite easily and they certainly won't stop to look at your decoys).

Recommended safe shot fallout range in clay pigeon shooting is 275 metres/ 300 yards. If using No6 shot for decoying, same range will apply.

Some one correct me if I have anything wrong here.

cookimonster

All birds are protected, it is only the hunting seasons as laid down by the Department that allows the killing of such, the same as the yearly derogation signed off by the minister allows the shooting and trapping of certain species.
Pigeons, Ducks and Geese are legal to decoy with artificial decoys. Cage trapping of specific corvids using same species live birds is legal. But the use of artificial decoys for any birds other than those listed is a no no.

Half-cocked

Are you saying that using a decoy to attract say rooks or magpies is illegal under the Act?

I could have this wrong, but I thought that the Ministers annual derogation removed the protected status from certain 'pest' species and that they were therefore not protected by the Act and use of decoys, electric callers etc was allowed. This would include jackdaws, rooks, magpies.

Wood Pigeons, Ducks and Geese are protected within the Act and that is why they have a specific clause allowing use of decoys.

(The wood pigeons have caused problems in the past resulting in at least one court case as a result of being both a protected species with an open season and subject to the derogation)

cookimonster

The EU Birds Directive Directive 2009/147/EC aims to protect all of the 500 wild bird species naturally occurring in the European Union, member states have to submit reporting on the status and trend in bird populations (article 12) as well as on derogations (article 9) they may apply to the directive's obligations. http://ec.europa.eu/environment/nature/legislation/birdsdirective/index_en.htm

The Irish derogation lists Hooded (Grey) Crow, Magpie, Rook, Jackdaw, Wood Pigeon, Feral Pigeon as the target species each with dates for and methods of control-
Colum 4 Method of Control – details firearms, use of cages (with or without live decoys) and poisons / anaesthetics
The note in relation to the use of decoys in cages details the welfare of the live bird and its species must be that of the target birds.
http://www.npws.ie/legislation/irish-law/eu-birds-directive-derogations

The WildlifeAct 1976 Act section 35.-(1) (c) ‘use of stuffed or artificial decoy....’ was amended in 2000 to have pigeon included as a species to be decoyed. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1976/act/39/section/35/enacted/en/html#sec35
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2000/act/38/section/43/enacted/en/html#sec43

I would surmise that since the Wildlife Act forbids the use of decoys, except as stated, the powers to be would have included the use of decoys for control of corvids under the amendments. Now this may be an oversight of the law makers and recognised as so but as has been repeated on the forum many times over, think ‘zeroing outside of authorised ranges’ it hasn’t been amended to date, so therefore illegal.

Half-cocked

cookimonster wrote: »

[I would surmise that since the Wildlife Act forbids the use of decoys, except as stated, the powers to be would have included the use of decoys for control of corvids under the amendments. Now this may be an oversight of the law makers and recognised as so but as has been repeated on the forum many times over, think ‘zeroing outside of authorised ranges’ it hasn’t been amended to date, so therefore illegal.

Do you know what is the status of using electronic callers to attract corvids? I know they are illegal for ducks etc, are they illegal for magpies for example?

barnaman

Lots of raining on Parades afraid! Cooki is right all birds are protected just that derogation applies to some. Decoys legal only for wood pigeon, ducks and geese.
Callers are illegal for all wild birds I believe.
One last thing I farm and assume the OP is on about cut silage fields full of rooks and daws; no corn cut at this time of year. Derogation does no apply to them. So illegal to shoot them at the moment if as guessing the OP is talking about open fields. Cooki posted the derogation earlier.

extremetaz

Yup, was just going to add the above point - pest control of corvids and pigeon is only applicable where there's a public health risk or evidence of damage to crops. You've got neither in a cut field I'm afraid.

Also yes, electronic callers are out on all counts AFAIK.

cookimonster

extremetaz wrote: »

Yup, was just going to add the above point - pest control of corvids and pigeon is only applicable where there's a public health risk or evidence of damage to crops. You've got neither in a cut field I'm afraid.

Also yes, electronic callers are out on all counts AFAIK.

Yep, if the OP can get in around silage bails, farm yards, feed stores etc he can exercise the degradation based on damage etc but I would agree shooting over cut silage fields wouldn't come under the conditions as laid out in the table.

barnaman

Still have to wait until 1 Nov to shoot though Cooki, if exercising feedlot derogation. Silage bales not covered by the derogation. By way no derogation for farmyards as such. I use a banger in my yard over the summer.

1shot16

Wow thanks for the replies lads but this turned into a legal thread instead of tips for decoying :P

On thing i find a bit silly is if there are crows and pigeons destroying a farm yard and i cannot shoot on or near the farm yard as there are houses nearby and two fields down next to the farm is being infested with vermin i cannot legally shoot them from there even though its safer than on the farm yard...this country

barnaman

Ah Ireland!

Cookis tips are spot on about suing dead crows. With Livestock most get used to it but watch out for heifers they go mental with shooting at least mine do.

cookimonster

barnaman wrote: »

Still have to wait until 1 Nov to shoot though Cooki, if exercising feedlot derogation. Silage bales not covered by the derogation. By way no derogation for farmyards as such. I use a banger in my yard over the summer.

Yep, we've missed the May period but for the OP's info there are time restrictions and conditions to the derogation, its not a blanket policy for its duration.
Rooks, Jackdaws and Pigeons can be controlled even when there is no threat to live crops-

'Prevent damage to livestock feedlots'.......... Rooks and Jackaw for the months of May 1st - 31st and then from November 1st until the end of following April.

'Threat to human health....Contamination of food stuffs'.....Pigeons May 1st 2016 - 30th April 2017.

hedzball

:rolleyes:

best thing to do op is to sell yer gun and take up cycling..

its all the fuking rage so it is.



'hdz